Thread about my Holden Ute- Finally Lowered!

Panhard bars are meant to control lateral forces on live axles. So unless you're rocking a set of slick tires and pulling really high g-forces in corners a stronger panhard bar won't make any difference.

Better bushings in the suspension (polyurethane usually) are meant to locate the suspension components better and allow them to move more precisely in comparison to the stock rubber bushings on most cars which are softer and can wear excessively over time and with high stress. They won't make the car handle better by themselves, but they'll allow other modifications to work better.
 
TheCracker
Unless the standard one or replacement adjustable one are known to be weak i wouldn't bother with any expensive aftermarket panhard rod, unless you've greatly enhanced the power of the engine. I don't think they have any load-bearing qualities so unless you are planing a lot of heavy on-track work a standard one will be more than enough. You could better spend your money on other stuff for your car.
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OK, I'll just get whatever adjustable one I can. (Which might be Nolathane anyway, because that's all I can find at the moment)

Keef
Panhard bars are meant to control lateral forces on live axles. So unless you're rocking a set of slick tires and pulling really high g-forces in corners a stronger panhard bar won't make any difference.

Better bushings in the suspension (polyurethane usually) are meant to locate the suspension components better and allow them to move more precisely in comparison to the stock rubber bushings on most cars which are softer and can wear excessively over time and with high stress. They won't make the car handle better by themselves, but they'll allow other modifications to work better.
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Nolathane, polyurethane, they all alike.:sly: Thanks for the explaination.:)
 
I got my tax cheque just the other day. A rather small one when compared to most others ($800) but it should mean I can now afford to get it lowered. I was wanting to go and talk to someone (preferably from King Springs) about what springs would suit my Ute best. I have a fair idea of what would work, (thankyou Gran Turismo and Scaff), but I want to be sure, and get the part numbers so I can order it through where I work. Does anyone know if there even are places I can talk to King Springs?

I don't suppose if anyone might know if there are different types of Monroe GT Gas shockies/struts in terms of strength on the bound and rebound?
 
Sorry Holden can't help you there, but I've just been thinking about this comment:

Keef
Panhard bars are meant to control lateral forces on live axles.
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Surely panhard bars would be useful on any vehicle that has excessive positive camber when the car is cornering? I know that quite a few micro vans (such as the Daihatsu Hijet, Bedford Rascal etc) have them fitted or have them as an option because they naturally have positive camber to account for any load they have to carry (with a payload the camber is increased in a negative fashion, pushing the bottoms of the wheels outwards so the wheels become more upright). Would a panhard rod stop the camber on the outside wheels becoming even more positive and therefore giving less grip in cornering?

I'm assuming that as a ute is designed to carry load in the back, the back wheels may not have any negative camber at all and may even be positively cambered so that when fully laden the wheels are more flat to the ground?

Stop me if I'm getting confusing or I'm just completely wrong.
 
homeforsummer
Sorry Holden can't help you there, but I've just been thinking about this comment:



Surely panhard bars would be useful on any vehicle that has excessive positive camber when the car is cornering? I know that quite a few micro vans (such as the Daihatsu Hijet, Bedford Rascal etc) have them fitted or have them as an option because they naturally have positive camber to account for any load they have to carry (with a payload the camber is increased in a negative fashion, pushing the bottoms of the wheels outwards so the wheels become more upright). Would a panhard rod stop the camber on the outside wheels becoming even more positive and therefore giving less grip in cornering?

I'm assuming that as a ute is designed to carry load in the back, the back wheels may not have any negative camber at all and may even be positively cambered so that when fully laden the wheels are more flat to the ground?

Stop me if I'm getting confusing or I'm just completely wrong.
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Old McPaulie had a Chevy, vroom vroom vroom vroom vroooooommmmm.


I don't think that has any effect on the wheel, as it's attached soley to the axle and not the wheel/hub assembly. I would also think that the butt just sits down, I never considered that it might change the camber. I don't think that's possible, as the wheel is in a fixed position is it not? Even with a camber adjustment kit it is fixed unless you physically change it right?

Edit: PS- My name is Paul, hence the line in the song.:sly:
 
I'm not sure then, I was just speculating. I think the camber angle can change depending on how low or high the vehicle sits - tuners who lower vehicles considerably without altering camber can find that it actually naturally adds negative camber. On that logic if you have a positively cambered car and stick a load of weight in the back (lowering it) the camber increases negatively (or decreases positively, whichever you like ;)).

As far as I'm aware, camber can be altered depending where in relation the suspension lower arms are compared to the axle line. If the lower arms are pointing significantly downwards (say, from a taller spring) you'll have positive camber, and the more you raise them (i.e, shorter springs) the more negative the camber will become (the lower arm is a certain length wherever you put it - if you detatched the strut and let the wheel swing in theory it would go right under the vehicle - which would be very positive camber!)

While I remember, double wishbones don't do this as far as I know. The upper wishbone keeps the wheel level wherever it's put, and camber has to be adjusted manually).
 
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I skimmed over this so forgive me if any of this has already been said.

Rear control arms (meaning it's IRS) pivot from the body to the rear hub, basically they "control" the suspension travel.

If you're lowering, get the rear camber measured up after you lower it, if it's IRS it'll probably go "commodoarrr" spec with like -4deg of camber. It might adjust flat, or it might need camber correction bits.

I take it, if you're lowering it, that you don't care much about carrying stuff in the back? In which case I'd advise tough front springs and soft rear springs, as closely proportionate to the wet weight distribution as possible. Don't just trust what King Springs recommend - the Kings I ordered for my Gemini were too soft on the front, and my mate's VL kings were softer (rear) than stock, he had them measured... If you take the ute to a weighbridge with you in it (timber yards are one idea), get each end weighed. That'll give you a great idea of the weight distribution, factor that in with the springrates. Softer rear will mean it's more predictable, arguably a little more inclined to oversteer on power-off/brakes but will settle and grip a lot more when you lean on the gas (unless you spin the wheels). Front end you want fairly tough, the last thing you want is no front end response, that's downright scary.

As for bushes, yes, tough (and NEW!! :D ) bushes all round is a massive plus. It basically means more of the suspension's movement is in the intended directions (suspension compressing, and both front wheels steering) rather than "flex" directions (toe in/out over bumps, additional camber over bumps/load, even forward/backward/left/right movement of the wheel itself. New balljoints are a good idea too, if you have any doubt over the condition of your current ones.

When going new bushes, go Nolathane or better :)
 
archangel62
I skimmed over this so forgive me if any of this has already been said.

Rear control arms (meaning it's IRS) pivot from the body to the rear hub, basically they "control" the suspension travel.

If you're lowering, get the rear camber measured up after you lower it, if it's IRS it'll probably go "commodoarrr" spec with like -4deg of camber. It might adjust flat, or it might need camber correction bits.

I take it, if you're lowering it, that you don't care much about carrying stuff in the back? In which case I'd advise tough front springs and soft rear springs, as closely proportionate to the wet weight distribution as possible. Don't just trust what King Springs recommend - the Kings I ordered for my Gemini were too soft on the front, and my mate's VL kings were softer (rear) than stock, he had them measured... If you take the ute to a weighbridge with you in it (timber yards are one idea), get each end weighed. That'll give you a great idea of the weight distribution, factor that in with the springrates. Softer rear will mean it's more predictable, arguably a little more inclined to oversteer on power-off/brakes but will settle and grip a lot more when you lean on the gas (unless you spin the wheels). Front end you want fairly tough, the last thing you want is no front end response, that's downright scary.

As for bushes, yes, tough (and NEW!! :D ) bushes all round is a massive plus. It basically means more of the suspension's movement is in the intended directions (suspension compressing, and both front wheels steering) rather than "flex" directions (toe in/out over bumps, additional camber over bumps/load, even forward/backward/left/right movement of the wheel itself. New balljoints are a good idea too, if you have any doubt over the condition of your current ones.

When going new bushes, go Nolathane or better :)
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There is a mine near my house with a weigh bridge, but then I know the front is heavier than the back anyway, shouldn't that be enough? (I don't think they'd be happy if I rocked up and asked to weigh my car.:sly: (The fuel levels affect it also). I also thought exactly that, stiff springs in the front (to support the weight and achieve flat cornering levels (little body roll), and softer springs in the rear to aid in weight transfer, but then I also need to know which springs are 30-35mm lower than stock, because that's what I want, and how stiff my stock springs are. Then, when cornering the end of the suspension supports more weight in the car, so I'd need some hefty anti-roll bars and sway bars atc in the rear to try and put more weight on the rear while cornering, to improve the handling of my light arsed Ute. I just need to know the specs of my current suspension/springs, so I can decide what will be best for my Ute from their online catalogue.:)

They speak of free height, inside diameter, spring rates (lbs/in), and solid height. I can guess what free height means (height of spring when fully unloaded?), inside diameter (pretty simple) and solid height I am guessing is the height of the spring when compressed as far as it will go (soild height increases in their catalogue with higher spring rates). So the questions I need to answer: The inside diameter of my Ute's springs, what the current heights are and what will be 30mm lower than now, and the current sping rates and just how much stiffer does it get by the lbs/in?
 
Ahh, see here's where it gets annoying. To be 100% sure, you have to rip your current springs OUT. Because you don't know if they've sagged, been cut, reset, or if they're the same as another spring you might otherwise use to compare (e.g. wreckers or catalogue). Usually the catalogue will be right, but you never know.

I think some workshops and places can measure springs accurately once you have them out.
 
I've asked around, and no one can tell me my freaking answer. I have to weigh my car and go and find the right springs myself after doing calculations.
 
I have settled on getting "Super Low" King Springs, the pro sport coils were too much trouble (and probably money), so now my Ute's getting lowered next Thursday.:D
 
Yay, finally lowered. Apparently, I need some new rear bump stops as well :dunce: Also, there was a backfire explosion in my exhaust which caused it to expand in one spot. This was likely due to some bad fuel according to my mechanic, I knew it was sounding off.'
I'm also told that over the next week or 2 it will sink a little lower as everything settles in, so when that happens and I wash it again I'll bring out some pics.:D
 
You shouldn't need new bump stops, just take the old ones out and cut them in half. That's what I did when I lowered the Blazer and it worked just fine. It will also continue to lower like you've been told but it takes longer then 2 weeks. You'll see a different in a couple days, but it will take about a month of driving to have them really settle.
 
Joey D
You shouldn't need new bump stops, just take the old ones out and cut them in half. That's what I did when I lowered the Blazer and it worked just fine. It will also continue to lower like you've been told but it takes longer then 2 weeks. You'll see a different in a couple days, but it will take about a month of driving to have them really settle.
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Thanks for the info. My mechanic seems to think that cutting the old one in half might not be the best fit. He said other people do it but he recommends getting the right ones.
So one month and I sould take new pics.:)
 
Rotary Junkie
NO. Take pics now AND later!

So we can see how much it settles, y'know?
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I'd have to wash it on the weekend. I only washed it a week or 2 ago, then storms made it dirty as. It's a water thing, drought and all. Maybe if I take the picture from far away.💡
 

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