Philly is looking at new cars. Plans change. Mom and dad are looking now.

Philly · May 4, 2009

Continued from here.

From that other thread, there have been a few suggestions already. But I think I should try to nail down exactly what I'm looking for before the discussion goes on too long. A few criteria I've thought of:

I would very much prefer it to be under $10,000
It must be fun to drive. I don't want something that feels like a tub of lard after the GTI. Doesn't exactly need to be fast.
It must be reliable. I would certainly prefer something I can work on myself, but I don't have that much money so I can't afford big fixes frequently.
On that note, this will be my car until I'm through college, so I'll need it to last several years.
It must get decent fuel mileage.
I want some variety of interior room, since I'll be hauling lots of stuff across the country. So no MR spyders.
Since I'll be in Michigan, I'd like to know it can be driven in the snow. It would be nice if I could just deal with all seasons, although snow tires are not out of the question.
Insurance. I'd like to keep it down.
It must be a manual
VAG products are out. I love them to death, but they've proven to be too unreliable for me right now. But don't worry guys, I'll be back when I can afford them.
I'd like something small. The GTI is great because it fits pretty much everywhere, and I don't really like driving bigger cars.

My list so far:

E36 BMW M3

This is one that I can't really knock off the top of the list. It's definitely the coolest car on the list, and very fast. I imagine very fun to drive as well. And they have proven themselves to be pretty durable with the number I see on the road. The only reservations I would have about the car are the age and insurance. I would get snow tires for it. And Cody says he gets decent mileage out of his, but the press says otherwise. It looks like ///M-Spec looks pretty favorably on the car too. So it's seeming like more and more of a solid, safe choice.

Lexus IS300

I think my dislike of modern Toyota products is fairly well documented on here, but this is one of the few I actually like. We looked at it when shopping for the GTI, and I liked it a lot. The design still looks fresh several years down the road, and it's a pretty nice car. And it's got a Toyota engine, so reliability is top notch I'm sure. Unfortunately, it fails a lot of the criteria I have above, most importantly the price point. It would be cool to find one of those rare wagons though.

Rev. C WRX (2002-2003)

OK, so this car is probably more wishful thinking. It fails pretty much all the most important criteria up above, but I do really love the thing. And that sound... :drool:

Acura RSX

Azuremen recommended this over the Si. Only problem is that this car pretty much represents the JDM tyte street racer boyz crowd, definitely not something I associate with. A definite personality clash, but if it's a great car, who knows.

Mazda 3

This was the first car I wanted to get when I first got the idea of getting my first car oh so many years ago. It isn't going to give me as many frills as some of the other cars on the list, but it'll fit all the criteria no problem, and I just can't fault it.

And of course, other people have mentioned other cars:

Mazda 6/Ford Fusion

Solid car, I have no doubt. I just don't really have much of a need for a midsize car at this point. It would probably be at or near the top of the list if I did need something bigger though.

BMW E39 540i

I've always like the 5 series, but I think it's a little big for me right now, and that V8 is probably going to be a bit thirsty.

Ford SVT Focus

Great little car. But it's just too small for a 6'5" person.

Porsche 944

I love these things, and they may be easy to work on and everything, but I have a feeling I'd be always working on it. And gas, well, yeah.

Subaru Outback

It's not really sporty by any means, but they are purely awesome cars. Sure, they have the whole lesbian stereotype going with them, but I just love the idea of a car that works great off road, will out-do anything in the snow, and yet still be a perfectly usable and drivable estate when the weather is nice.

Anyway, there are my thoughts so far. I'm still only 90% sure I'll be getting something this summer, but it is looking pretty probable at this point.

JCE · May 4, 2009

Steer clear of the WRX, IS and M3 as the insurance will kill you until you are close to being 30 years old...and even then its not exactly cheap.

Fun? Carry stuff? Reliable? Good in snow? I believe you described this...
2003 Infiniti G35

Azuremen · May 4, 2009

Eh, the M3 isn't as bad as you'd think. Both my friend's pay about $80 a month for full coverage, though they have the benefit of still being on their parents' policy. Which is where Philly would be with his setup.

JCE · May 4, 2009

If someone leech off of their parent's insurance that's fine, I'm a adult and on my own and cannot do that so I chose to still comment on the insurance cost. Not everyone can get a break such as a parent buying a car and or paying for its cost(s). *shrugs*

McLaren · May 5, 2009

You don't need a 540i, mate. If you really want a E39, go for a 528i or so. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them, great cars & such (almost bought one before the Civic), but if you're going to be on a budget, the parts will kill you.

3 Series owners have it pretty decently. If you research, you can get the parts cheap, but anything else (5, 6, 7, & god forbid, the 8) will dig deep into your pockets. I'd avoid it just out of better interest unless you'll be making some bank. The 944 will follow this trend. My father could tell you that with much experience in his Turbo & Turbo S.

Everything else is a pretty good choice, just some research on the prices, issues, & insurance.

And ignore the JDM TyT3 crew. The RSX is a great car, and you shouldn't let some idiot ricers stop you. I've driven my friends and ignoring the EBay intake & exhaust, it drives like a charm just like the RSX I had driven on a test drive (also before the Civic).

Giancarlo should be able to give you some good advice on it as well.

Joey D · May 5, 2009

Azuremen
Eh, the M3 isn't as bad as you'd think. Both my friend's pay about $80 a month for full coverage, though they have the benefit of still being on their parents' policy. Which is where Philly would be with his setup.

Hmm really? That's actually not that bad. I'd have to imagine the WRX is a lot more than that though, even under the parent's policy. I know I was given some ludicrous quote when I inquired about it a couple years back.

Eric. · May 5, 2009

I assume the Si you'd be talking about would be the EP3...The RSX is definitely the nicer car there. Try to find a Type-S so you make more than 160hp and get a six speed.

YSSMAN · May 5, 2009

Azuremen
Eh, the M3 isn't as bad as you'd think. Both my friend's pay about $80 a month for full coverage, though they have the benefit of still being on their parents' policy. Which is where Philly would be with his setup.

Lame. The Celica's insurance is in my name and I pay roughly $125. If Phill can get on his parent's insurance, by all means, go for the more "sports-type" cars, but otherwise, I guess its a "be-careful" situation. Although, insurance can be tricky. As I recall, a Honda S2000 is less to insure per-month than my Celica.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=

RE: WRX

I'd vote "get this instead":

2004-2005 Subaru Forrester XT

Its pretty much a WRX on the cheap. Although its not as capable in the sport department, its no slouch either. Turbo power, manual gearbox, body design that fits everyone + junk, lower insurance premiums and AWD? Only fault is that it isn't as "cool" as the WRX, and the fact it guzzles premium fuel at a speedy rate.

...Feel free to shoot me...

2001 BMW 330i

A bit newer, maybe a bit more "soft" than the E36 M3. I like them, but its well-established that I'm crazy.

JCE · May 5, 2009

I second the regular 3-series. You can get a really good cherry early 2000's model for cheap.

I also highly recommend:

And lastly, my favorite American saloon ever:

Carlos · May 5, 2009

What the.. E36 M3 for less then 10.000 USD?

Philly · May 5, 2009

YSSMAN
Lame. The Celica's insurance is in my name and I pay roughly $125. If Phill can get on his parent's insurance, by all means, go for the more "sports-type" cars, but otherwise, I guess its a "be-careful" situation. Although, insurance can be tricky. As I recall, a Honda S2000 is less to insure per-month than my Celica.

I'll be on the parent's insurance, so I'm not too worried about that. It all depends on how much I guess.

RE: WRX

I'd vote "get this instead":

2004-2005 Subaru Forrester XT

Its pretty much a WRX on the cheap. Although its not as capable in the sport department, its no slouch either. Turbo power, manual gearbox, body design that fits everyone + junk, lower insurance premiums and AWD? Only fault is that it isn't as "cool" as the WRX, and the fact it guzzles premium fuel at a speedy rate.

...Feel free to shoot me...

I'd probably go for an Outback before a Forester. Sure it's a lesbian car, but when you have a car that is that secretly awesome, who cares?

2001 BMW 330i

A bit newer, maybe a bit more "soft" than the E36 M3. I like them, but its well-established that I'm crazy.

That's actually another good one to be looking at. I've always thought they were pretty good cars, and I'm sure I wouldn't be disappointed by one.

JCE
Audi A6 / Volvo S60

The Audi doesn't pass the "No VAG products" criteria, and I'm fairly confident I can say that the Volvo misses the "sporty" bit by a good margin. I feel pretty bad being a badge snob against my beloved Volkswagen, and then putting something from my hated Toyota up on the list, but I guess that's how things turn out when you're looking for reliability. And we have a Volvo, and that has to be the worst car to drive ever. It feels almost as though I'm navigating a giant bowl of porridge through a snow field. In the dry. Also, neither are exactly small cars either.

And lastly, my favorite American saloon ever:

I should also point out that I'm not much of a fan of American cars. They sometimes make decent cars now, but I can't afford a new car now, so finding a decent one for me should be tough. I generally only really like European cars, but the Japanese make some good things so they get the majority of the spots on my list.

Azuremen · May 5, 2009

There is one Volvo I considered getting at a point - the 850 T-5R. 240HP to the front wheels.

Carlos · May 5, 2009

My mate got that one, pretty fast and the handling is pretty good.

I'm going to buy my first car soon, it'll be the E39. 528 or 523, not sure yet..

///M-Spec · May 5, 2009

Random thoughts:

I'd say avoid the Audi A6 in 2.8 or 3.0 V6 flavor. It's a German Buick. You will slit your wrists from the boredom. A 2.7T will scoot pretty well and the 4.2 is beastly, but good luck finding any A6 in a manual, they are pretty uncommon.

Between a C5 A6 and E39 5-series, I'd rather have the 5er. Unless you want a wagon, then the allroad has a certain appeal.

It seems like the IS300s I see are either tired, clapped out rat traps, or super clean and well cared for. There doesn't seem to be anything in between. Stick IS300s seem to be pretty rare too.

E46 330i ; avoid MY2001. The steering that year is terrible. Facelift cars are going to be out of your price range. That leaves '99-00 328s and 323s. I'd go for a clean, low milage, unmolested 328Ci 5MT. Not many of those left out there. Early E46s are becoming like German Civics. For every nice one, there's five riced out turds.

I'd go with the Mazda3, to tell you the truth. It's probably the safest choice, financially speaking, and is a lot of fun to drive.

M

YSSMAN · May 5, 2009

///M-Spec
E46 330i ; avoid MY2001. The steering that year is terrible. Facelift cars are going to be out of your price range. That leaves '99-00 328s and 323s. I'd go for a clean, low milage, unmolested 328Ci 5MT. Not many of those left out there. Early E46s are becoming like German Civics. For every nice one, there's five riced out turds.

Interesting, I've never heard of those "problems" on the 330i before. My first true BMW experience was with a 328ci of the same generation, and I'd love to nab one as a replacement for the Celica. Maybe.

Bram Turismo · May 5, 2009

///M-Spec
I'd go with the Mazda3, to tell you the truth. It's probably the safest choice, financially speaking, and is a lot of fun to drive.

I was about to say the same thing. The little Mazda is a beautiful thing, and is probably a bunch cheaper than the M3 too. Moreover, it's pretty much more practical than an M3 througout the whole year, although I don't know how the conditions in Michigan really are. Mileage will be better in the Mazda I suspect.

I say that the Mazda pretty much bags it up from all the cars listed. My second choice would be the Subaru and third the Lexus.

Tornado · May 5, 2009

Azuremen
There is one Volvo I considered getting at a point - the 850 T-5R. 240HP to the front wheels.

I'd argue that getting the real Doug experience of one would be enough to stay away.

Personally, I'd stay away from the 944. IIRC, they weren't particularly reliable when they were new, nevermind 20 years later. Also, I fear for your wallet trying to get insurance on a car with a Porsche badge.

If you don't mind the drop in interior quality or being labeled as an SRT-4 driver, you could get an SRT-4. Alternatively, the old Cobalt SS. Alternatively alternatively, a Prelude.

Thinking outside of the box for a minute, what about a bubble economy car? Most of them are probably under 10 grand by now, and I'm guessing at least one of them is probably reliable.

JCE · May 5, 2009

Philly
The Audi doesn't pass the "No VAG products" criteria, and I'm fairly confident I can say that the Volvo misses the "sporty" bit by a good margin. I feel pretty bad being a badge snob against my beloved Volkswagen, and then putting something from my hated Toyota up on the list, but I guess that's how things turn out when you're looking for reliability. And we have a Volvo, and that has to be the worst car to drive ever. It feels almost as though I'm navigating a giant bowl of porridge through a snow field. In the dry. Also, neither are exactly small cars either.

I should also point out that I'm not much of a fan of American cars. They sometimes make decent cars now, but I can't afford a new car now, so finding a decent one for me should be tough. I generally only really like European cars, but the Japanese make some good things so they get the majority of the spots on my list.

1. The A6 with the 2.7L Turbo and 4.2L V8 are both quite good in both reliability and fun. Put a sport suspension on it and they'll be a sport saloon.
2. The Volvo S80 T6 is a good quick car with AWD. A twin turbo 6cyl isn't anything to sneeze at.
3. The Lincoln LS isn't very American as it uses an Austrailian platform (S197), a Jaguar sourced V8 engine (AJ-V8), or a Japanese/European sourced V6 (Duratec 30) and a Jaguar sourced double wishbone European suspension. Please do not let your bias against American cars distract you from a cracking car. You can get a nice V8 model with a Getrag 6spd manual (2000-2003) for a good price and it will fan-bloody-tastic. The interior is quite good as well.

I will defend the LS till the day I die. That was one of Ford's biggest mistakes by not advertising it to the right crowd and not doing a high powered 320bhp+ sport model.

///M-Spec · May 5, 2009

YSSMAN
Interesting, I've never heard of those "problems" on the 330i before.

It's only a problem if you don't want Oldsmobile steering in your BMW.

BMW increased the amount of power assist for MY2001 3 series. By quite a lot. Apparently they did this because they wanted to reduce the amount of steering effort required to maneuver the car in parking situations. The result is you can drive an '01 330i around town with a pinky finger like an old Cadillac.

Details differ on when 'The Ultimate Parking Machine' set up was phased out. Some sources say in 8 months, other sources say it ran until halfway through the '02 MY. BMW offered a free dealer installed retrofit kit to customers who complained about the steering. My understanding is the xi versions were not affected by this.

But the change was definately made. I can personally confirm this, because I drove one of the first 330Ci's off the boat and was appalled by the amount of boost they added.

Bram Turismo
I was about to say the same thing. The little Mazda is a beautiful thing, and is probably a bunch cheaper than the M3 too.

Here in the US, you can easily find an E36 M3 under $10,000. The only catch is you will need to spend a few thousand to refresh some of the common wear items in the suspension and powertrain. After you've made that commitment, it should be good for another 50,000 miles.

M

Azuremen · May 5, 2009

JCE
1. The A6 with the 2.7L Turbo and 4.2L V8 are both quite good in both reliability and fun. Put a sport suspension on it and they'll be a sport saloon.

I'd call into question the reliability bit on the 2.7T. My brother owns one, it already smokes when you get on the gas hard. At about 70k miles. It is also is still getting random recalls, as a 2003 model. And it is a VW.

///M-Spec
Here in the US, you can easily find an E36 M3 under $10,000. The only catch is you will need to spend a few thousand to refresh some of the common wear items in the suspension and powertrain. After you've made that commitment, it should be good for another 50,000 miles.

M

Pretty much. I have seen some that have most everything replaced with upgraded parts, such as this 1995 M3. Of course, it is a bit track focused.

Conversely, you have idiots like this. Or riced out crap like this...

You'll have to do a bit of looking around, as many people don't seem to know how much their cars are actually worth.

JCE · May 5, 2009

Nevermind delete.

Azure Flare · May 5, 2009

i would sell you my Isuzu Rodeo Sport, but it has an auto, thats the only thing wrong with it (according to your specs, you wouldn't want it).

niky · May 6, 2009

Azuremen
There is one Volvo I considered getting at a point - the 850 T-5R. 240HP to the front wheels.

Boo! Must.Be.The.Wagon!

///M-Spec · May 6, 2009

Azuremen
I'd call into question the reliability bit on the 2.7T. My brother owns one, it already smokes when you get on the gas hard. At about 70k miles. It is also is still getting random recalls, as a 2003 model. And it is a VW.

The 2.7T is almost legendary for failing turbos. To the point where the B5 S4 crowd pretty much expects it to happen.

As for anecdotal evidence, I know a guy with a 145,000 mile B5 on the original stock turbos without any problems.

I think that, as with all turbos, a little preventative maintenance goes a long way. It also depends on how the car is driven and treated. It's usually the guys that drive around like they stole the car all the time that starts getting the blow through and dentist drill noise.

We have a version of the 2.7T in the wife's allroad. To date, the only problem we've encountered on the car was a defective ignition coil at 49,000 miles, which was replaced under warranty (they pulled the entire coilpack). This is a well documented weakness of the motor. The oil is changed with full synthetic every 7k miles. And we give it plenty of time to cool off after a long or hard drive. Based on the info. I gleaned form the audiworld allroad crowd, I don't see any reason to worry until the 100k+ mark.

The air springs, however, are another matter.

What color is the smoke from your bro's car? Does he know anything about the previous owner or service history?

Azuremen
Pretty much. I have seen some that have most everything replaced with upgraded parts, such as this 1995 M3. Of course, it is a bit track focused.

Conversely, you have idiots like this. Or riced out crap like this...

You'll have to do a bit of looking around, as many people don't seem to know how much their cars are actually worth.

I was wondering what the deal was with the white one until I saw that it was a salvage title car and he still wanted $13.5 for it. Whatever he's smoking, I'd like to try some of that.

That black '95 gives me happy pants.

M

Philly · May 6, 2009

JCE
1. The A6 with the 2.7L Turbo and 4.2L V8 are both quite good in both reliability and fun. Put a sport suspension on it and they'll be a sport saloon.

It's still a pretty big car, which I don't want. And after owning the GTI, I really can't trust a VW product to hold up all too well. Which I guess is still a reasonable conclusion after seeing what people below you posted.

2. The Volvo S80 T6 is a good quick car with AWD. A twin turbo 6cyl isn't anything to sneeze at.

No, a 6 TT is a pretty decent engine. But the problem is, it's still a Volvo, so it'll still resist any attempts at going around corners. Terrible gas mileage too, I would assume.

3. The Lincoln LS isn't very American as it uses an Austrailian platform (S197), a Jaguar sourced V8 engine (AJ-V8), or a Japanese/European sourced V6 (Duratec 30) and a Jaguar sourced double wishbone European suspension. Please do not let your bias against American cars distract you from a cracking car. You can get a nice V8 model with a Getrag 6spd manual (2000-2003) for a good price and it will fan-bloody-tastic. The interior is quite good as well.

To be honest, I have always thought the LS was a pretty good car. And that's even with my anti-American cars bias. It is a big car though, and the V8 is going to suck gas, and I'd guess the V6 isn't going to be all that great. But aside from the Fusion, American hasn't made a decent small-ish car that'll be well put together, fun to drive and efficient.

///M-Spec
It's only a problem if you don't want Oldsmobile steering in your BMW.

BMW increased the amount of power assist for MY2001 3 series. By quite a lot. Apparently they did this because they wanted to reduce the amount of steering effort required to maneuver the car in parking situations. The result is you can drive an '01 330i around town with a pinky finger like an old Cadillac.

Details differ on when 'The Ultimate Parking Machine' set up was phased out. Some sources say in 8 months, other sources say it ran until halfway through the '02 MY. BMW offered a free dealer installed retrofit kit to customers who complained about the steering. My understanding is the xi versions were not affected by this.

But the change was definately made. I can personally confirm this, because I drove one of the first 330Ci's off the boat and was appalled by the amount of boost they added.

Thanks. I'll definitely keep that in mind if I'm looking into E46s.

Here in the US, you can easily find an E36 M3 under $10,000. The only catch is you will need to spend a few thousand to refresh some of the common wear items in the suspension and powertrain. After you've made that commitment, it should be good for another 50,000 miles.

Would the refresh put the total too high above $10,000? And will it be good for that long afterward? Because the prospect of me owning an M3 is something I definitely want to come true, but I need to be very sure that it will hold up that long with minimal repairs.

And all of my friends at home are saying that the M3 would be the worst decision on the list, and the WRX would be the best choice.

Azuremen
You'll have to do a bit of looking around, as many people don't seem to know how much their cars are actually worth.

I think a lot of them probably think the two BMW badges and M badges around the car alone are worth about $7,000. Mom does too apparently. She said "it's a BMW. It's too flashy" when I told her I was interested in the M3.

Tornado · May 6, 2009

Azuremen
Pretty much. I have seen some that have most everything replaced with upgraded parts, such as this 1995 M3. Of course, it is a bit track focused.

Why does that car have to be about as far as possible from where I live?

Azuremen · May 6, 2009

Philly
And all of my friends at home are saying that the M3 would be the worst decision on the list, and the WRX would be the best choice.

I think a lot of them probably think the two BMW badges and M badges around the car alone are worth about $7,000. Mom does too apparently. She said "it's a BMW. It's too flashy" when I told her I was interested in the M3.

Sounds like most guys your age, on the WRX bit. They don't even know. I got into with some of the WRX guys around here about how they think the Subaru is the best thing ever because its Japanese and has AWD and a turbo. And then they try to claim how hard working on a BMW is.

Guess what car needs an engine hoist to get to the spark plugs? Or having the motor pulled to do a compression check? What car has more drive train parts to wear out? Or a turbo that adds heat and stress? Or has a billion random rattles in the dash? Or is harder to change the oil on?

Oh wait, the Subaru. For all of those.

As for the M3 versus the WRX for being flashy...

Which has the hood scoop? The turbo sound? The spoiler? So on?

The Subaru, again. The M3 looks pretty much like a 3 Series to most people, which are every where. Cops don't bother me as much in the M3 either. And if you drive like a remotely sane person, you won't get the attention from all the other kiddies in Civics and crap at stop lights and on the highway.

JCE · May 7, 2009

Philly
It's still a pretty big car, which I don't want. And after owning the GTI, I really can't trust a VW product to hold up all too well. Which I guess is still a reasonable conclusion after seeing what people below you posted.

No, a 6 TT is a pretty decent engine. But the problem is, it's still a Volvo, so it'll still resist any attempts at going around corners. Terrible gas mileage too, I would assume.

To be honest, I have always thought the LS was a pretty good car. And that's even with my anti-American cars bias. It is a big car though, and the V8 is going to suck gas, and I'd guess the V6 isn't going to be all that great. But aside from the Fusion, American hasn't made a decent small-ish car that'll be well put together, fun to drive and efficient.

1. I can accept that reasoning on the Audi. I'll move on.

2. The Volvo can be quite a good car around corners with some good rubber and a sport suspension. No idea about the MPG though...

3. The LS' V6 was/is the same as the Duratec 30 that was in the 2006-2009 Ford Fusion. The 2002 model had the highest power output of the V6 models (220bhp/215tq)--and was the last of the V6's on the LS. 2003-2006 was V8 only. The gas mileage for the V6 was rated at 18/25 and the V8 was rated 17/23.

Philly · May 7, 2009

Azuremen
Sounds like most guys your age, on the WRX bit. They don't even know. I got into with some of the WRX guys around here about how they think the Subaru is the best thing ever because its Japanese and has AWD and a turbo. And then they try to claim how hard working on a BMW is.

Guess what car needs an engine hoist to get to the spark plugs? Or having the motor pulled to do a compression check? What car has more drive train parts to wear out? Or a turbo that adds heat and stress? Or has a billion random rattles in the dash? Or is harder to change the oil on?

Oh wait, the Subaru. For all of those.

As for the M3 versus the WRX for being flashy...

Which has the hood scoop? The turbo sound? The spoiler? So on?

The Subaru, again. The M3 looks pretty much like a 3 Series to most people, which are every where. Cops don't bother me as much in the M3 either. And if you drive like a remotely sane person, you won't get the attention from all the other kiddies in Civics and crap at stop lights and on the highway.

When it comes to dependability, I do have a hard time believing that the Subaru will be better than the M3. Especially with that turbo in there, and I don't trust turbos too much, especially ones more than a few years old.

Although I must say that the most appealing bits about the Subaru still make me love it and want it. The wagon looks amazing with a little money put into appearance, it's a pretty decent car in the snow and it's got a boxer.

It is funny though that my friends here all think that the M3 would be the worst decision of my life, and would be a bottomless money pit, and that the WRX would be a good choice. Yet, the consensus here is pretty much the opposite.

JCE
2. The Volvo can be quite a good car around corners with some good rubber and a sport suspension. No idea about the MPG though...

Our XC70 is extremely vague. The steering wheel doesn't feel in any way connected to the front tires. And cornering just doesn't really seem to happen until the car has had plenty of time to think about it and adjust itself. It's to the point that I seriously doubt it's possible to make any Volvo feel sporty in the least. Plus, the acceleration is very boring, only pulling once the turbo spools up from about 30 mph until first runs out between 45 and 50. And then second is lacking in any frills. Our car also struggles to get into the 20s for gas mileage. And that's with mom driving it.

///M-Spec · May 7, 2009

Philly
Would the refresh put the total too high above $10,000? And will it be good for that long afterward? Because the prospect of me owning an M3 is something I definitely want to come true, but I need to be very sure that it will hold up that long with minimal repairs.

If all you want is a good, inexpensive street car that goes and handles pretty well, then you can probably "get by" with a few repairs to critical suspension areas. Namely the shocks, front control arms, rear shock tower mounts, rear trailing arm bushings and the rear subframe mounts. Using OEM parts, you can probably do this for under $1500 with labor at an indie BMW specialist. You will also want him to check all the other bushings and make sure they're not completely shot. You should replace any that are. After this, what you should get is a decent, streetable car. Under normal everyday driving, you will probably not break anything and the car will handle 'pretty well'. But not as good as new. There may be other areas that will need attention though, but that should cover the well known trouble spots in the suspension.

There's a lot of rubber parts in a BMW suspension that is used to isolate road impacts, noise, vibration and harshness. This not only make things more comfortable for the people riding in the car, but just as important, it keeps road surface imperfections from jarring the suspension and making the car feel nervous or darty. One of the best things about a BMW suspension is that mid-corner bumps will not throw the car off line and the car remains stable when cornering over rough surfaces.

However, the thing about rubber is they degrade over time and over the course of many miles, no longer perform as new.

So if you want to do it right, and I mean really do a proper job and make the car handle even better than brand new, then you should do a full refresh of every wear component and upgrade weak areas to the best aftermarket parts possible. (Probably the second best thing next to the M3 itself is the aftermarket support the car has.)

I was looking carefully at buying an E36 autocross/track car, and compiled a list of things I would do to get it ready (after buying the Audi, this project is on indefinite hold). If you're interested, I can dig it out, update it a little and post it. If you're not into BMWs, it would seem like a huge wall of text, though.

Philly
And all of my friends at home are saying that the M3 would be the worst decision on the list, and the WRX would be the best choice.

I think a lot of them probably think the two BMW badges and M badges around the car alone are worth about $7,000. Mom does too apparently. She said "it's a BMW. It's too flashy" when I told her I was interested in the M3.

Philly
It is funny though that my friends here all think that the M3 would be the worst decision of my life, and would be a bottomless money pit, and that the WRX would be a good choice. Yet, the consensus here is pretty much the opposite.

Unless your friends have some first hand knowledge and experience with the M3, then you should disregard anything they have to say about it. It's really funny how often people with no idea what they're talking about love to give their opinions on BMWs. "I heard they are expensive to repair and they break down all the time" is the line I hear parroted over and and over again, and it's usually from the uninformed ignoramuses. To me, it's like a litmus test for stupidity: if you try to give people advice on things of which you have no knowledge, then it shows you don't have the capability to learn things for yourself and have to rely on regurgitating information from other people.

An E36 M3 is not a cheap car to run. A $10k example is going to have 75,000 miles on it minimum and it will need a some work to get it back to peak performance. But unless you buy a really crappy one, it is hardly a money pit. Just don't expect your commitment to the car to end at the selling price --and this is true of ANY used car with higher mileage. If you take care if it, then it will take of you. The key is to do your research and ask the right questions so you know what you are getting into. Avoid people who just parrots what someone else says without having any knowledge of the subject. Make an informed decision and you will be happy.

Can't help you with your mom's opinion though. You'll just have to convince her a Bimmer will help you pick up nice classy girls instead of the trashy sluts that usually go for the imports.

(of course we know you'll be picking up the trashy sluts anyway.. I mean who wouldn't? :sly:

)

M

Philly is looking at new cars. Plans change. Mom and dad are looking now.

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