Philly is looking at new cars. Plans change. Mom and dad are looking now.

[Philly]

The way the economy is here is actually pretty frustrating. It's slumping enough that nobody can afford to buy new cars, yet still good enough that people can still buy cars. So new prices are lowered, and used car prices are on the say up.

Not that I'd want a new Chrysler anyway... And we'd probably have Sebrings that cheap here if a competitive market hadn't shunned the company out when they stopped making competitive cars a few years ago. New Sebrings are rare here.

 

[JCE]

You can find these for $12,000 if you are even remotely considering a Chrysler product:

2005 Dodge Magnum R/T RWD

2005 Dodge Magnum R/T RWD

2005 Dodge Magnum SXT AWD

2007 Dodge Charger SXT AWD

I am almost tempted to get one of these when I get my Camaro running again. I can use the van as a trade in and have a nice down payment. I've seen Magnums with low miles (2005 models with 50k) go for less than $9,000. That's good value!

 

[Philly]

So I called the insurance company yesterday to get some quotes. For the first 6 months of ownership, a WRX would raise the plan by $919, a Mazda 3 by $922 and the M3 by $1070. Keep in mind this is for the entire plan, so the rest of my family is still on this. I'm sure a lot of that would be recovered by selling one of our cars though. Needless to say, I am very surprised that the WRX isn't the most expensive.

I also found a car last night that I wanted to go look at and possibly buy this weekend. So I told my parents and the response was that they weren't sure if I was going to get a car yet. And that is slightly irritating when earlier this week dad confirmed that $10,000 was fair, and since he's pushing for me to get a MINI.

 

[Joey D]

Get a MINI. [/obligatory comment]

 

[Philly]

If they were to shell out the extra few grand it would take to get into one, I'm sure I would.

But at the same time it's frustrating when they say "sounds like you need to do more research" when I recommend the M3, and then proceed to attempt to talk me into the WRX and MINI, both of which are pretty far out of my price range.

 

[Joey D]

You are looking at about $15,000 easy for a Cooper S with around 60,000 miles on it. The MINI is one of the worse cars to buy used because the resale value is so high on it. You'd probably like it and it would probably fit in well out in Seattle but it might be a bit uncomfortable to do a cross country journey in. Although I can't imagine a WRX is any better, I never found that to be an overly comfortable car.

Between a Cooper S and a WRX you'd probably find that the MINI was less ragged on than the WRX since it seems like older people buy MINI's whereas younger people buy WRX's.

Keep looking, you'll find something and you need to do it before you come back to MI.

 

[Keef]

Bah, you guys and comfort. A MINI has got nothing on this new-fangled suspension of mine. It's perfectly livable on a long jaunt.

I suggest a MINI over a WRX. MINIs are young and fun, but mature in their quality all at the same time, whereas a WRX will just never be a mature car. Ever. One of my buddies has a roof vinyl he deigned that has a "DTF" pattern all over it, complimented by a blast-pipe exhaust. Awesome yes, but not mature.

Interesting then how you can put all sorts of patterns on the roof of a MINI and it's still proper.

 

[Philly]

I'm not too big on considering the MINI just yet. I'd like to still be looking at cars that can be had in my budget so I don't get too high of hopes for something a little pricier. This would knock WRXs out, but they can be had pretty cheap down in Portland. About a whole $4,000 less down there.

I think that the biggest problem (for me) now with the WRX is that a modded one looks 20 times better than a stock one, so I'd have trouble holding on to any money I have.

 

[YSSMAN]

Too bad about the VW knock-out. A Jetta GLI would be right up your alley with the 1.8T, srsly. Awesome fuel mileage, actually just about as fast as your GTI.

*sigh*

For the price of the car, insurance, and all that funk... I guess a WRX just doesn't seem all that "worth it" to me. But, that comes down to preferences (I'm a certifiable loon who would prefer a Forrester XT). Still, feel free to hate me everyone, but somehow I feel like a EP Civic Si would fit the criteria (*braces for hateful internet fireball impact*). As I recall too, the insurance was pretty fair. And they're outstandingly cheap. Like, ridiculously cheap.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a Suzuki Forenza in blue, throw some Chevy badges on it and install a roll cage. Then, figure out a way to get a proper "TOPGEAR" plate. Instant win.

 

[Philly]

Too bad about the VW knock-out. A Jetta GLI would be right up your alley with the 1.8T, srsly. Awesome fuel mileage, actually just about as fast as your GTI.

Eh. It's temporary. I love them too much to leave forever.

For the price of the car, insurance, and all that funk... I guess a WRX just doesn't seem all that "worth it" to me. But, that comes down to preferences (I'm a certifiable loon who would prefer a Forrester XT). Still, feel free to hate me everyone, but somehow I feel like a EP Civic Si would fit the criteria (*braces for hateful internet fireball impact*). As I recall too, the insurance was pretty fair. And they're outstandingly cheap. Like, ridiculously cheap.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a Suzuki Forenza in blue, throw some Chevy badges on it and install a roll cage. Then, figure out a way to get a proper "TOPGEAR" plate. Instant win.

Insurance and things were the main reason I wanted to stay away from the WRX. But now that I know insurance won't be too bad, it's kinda opened that option up again. But I think the thing that's really keeping them on the map is just how awesome I think they are.

I've considered the EP Si, but I think other guys on here recommended the RSX instead. But maybe I should put it back on the list. And I think it would be funny to get a "TOPGEAR" plate too but sadly it's not available in Washington.

 

[YSSMAN]

They all bellyache way too much about the EP, I think. Its a good looking car, that carries a bunch of junk, and has some neat touches to it (the stick comes to mind). It may not be as "hardcore" as an RSX Type-S, but even if you're getting 90% of the car and the performance... I guess I couldn't complain too much about the price. I'm seeing them pretty consistently under $10K, can't really complain about the fuel economy either, from what I understand.

Just don't get it in the vomit gold color.

 

[Azuremen]

If you get an EP3 Si, I will just laugh. Honestly.

It is heavy, under powered, poor rear suspension, ugly, and on and on. An RSX Type S would make much more sense. Much, much more sense. It has more power, a better transmission, looks better, is lighter, and so on. Hell, the Corolla XRS from that era makes more power, has another gear, and is lighter than an EP3 Si. Yeah

Never speak of it again. Ever. Honda screws that up every time they make another one, except maybe the JDM Type R and US Si for the current generation. Europe has a rubbish Type R right now.

 

[YSSMAN]

God, I haven't seen a Corolla XRS in years. Too bad the goods didn't carry over into this generation. At least this one looks halfway "sporty."

A Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart Sportback would be awesome, but seeing as how they were here only for a year, and sold such a minuscule amount, they're impossible to find. Still, even the regular Ralliart is a top-notch sports sedan. Ditch the standard rubber, and you have a very capable sport compact...

 

[Philly]

I don't think I could roll up to Hope in a Toyota. Maybe a Lexus, but not a Toyota. My best Michigan friend and I have a friendly disagreement when it comes to VW and Toyota. His dad just bought a TT, and I don't think I'm about to crack and buy a Toyota. I'd get laughed out of the place.

As for the Mitsubishi, I'm sure I could find some WRXs for around the same range, and the Subie is a car I'd much rather have personally.

 

[Philly]

A little update here...

Turns out I'll just keep the GTI around for a while longer, so I'm not really looking at new cars anymore. The parents said they would have sold it, and I just don't want to see it go. So it'll be coming out to Michigan in March after spring break.

But, my parents are looking at a replacement for the XC70. I guess this is more FYI than looking for suggestions. But if anything is missing they'd be open to suggestions.

Audi A4 Avant - This is the first car we drove. I'm fairly impressed. It's a very nice car. And dad really likes the steering and engine from the GTI. But somehow the Audi guys managed to make the interior smaller than in my hatchback and later drives proved that the A4 is pretty dismal to drive. So it's pretty far down the list.

Subaru Legacy GT - This thing really stands out from the others in that it's significantly cheaper and much sportier. We drove an example with 90k on the clock and bearing and alignment issues and it was still an absolute blast. The thing drives extremely well and it even got dad all excited about having a nice sporty wagon in the garage. So it's pretty high up on the list, provided we can find an example that hasn't been beat to tears.

Volkswagen Jetta TDI - Pretty different from the other cars. It's a great economy car (aside from the sticker price). The MKVIs are very nice. But it's FWD and dad wants something a little sportier. Plus finding a used one without a still astronomical price will be hard.

Saab 9-3 Aero - It's just too GM. It's got the cool flippy cupholder, console ignition and those vents, but everything else is just kinda meh. The salesman was having a rough day, so I didn't get to drive but I guess dad liked the way it drove somewhat, the seats were awesome (very cushy while still being supportive) for a family car and the interior room was pretty good. It also trounced everything for head room, which is a real issue in a family with three people over 6 feet.

BMW 328xi - Amazing car. The suspension is great, the drive is great, the engine is awesome and it even has manual seats. Dad probably just about bought it as soon as we got out. But then we sat in the rear and there is zero headroom. So I guess we're going to look for one without that giant sunroof to see if we can find something a tall person can fit into.

Other cars to possibly mention are the 540i. I don't think my dad would be very keen on the idea, and mom hates BMWs (too flashy and stuck up I guess... Yet she'd drive a Lexus.) so I donno how well that'd go over. But those were about all the sporty wagons I could come up with over break.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, there are some worthwhile alternatives to look at which may or may not be as sporty, but interesting nevertheless:

Volkswagen Tiguan
They haven't sold as well as I had thought they would, and I have no idea what the going rates are on newly used models, but its a solid option in the CUV market. Generally speaking, its a GTI on stilts that can carry things. Lots of things.

Mazda 6 Sportwagon/Mazda 6 Hatchback
They didn't make them for very long, but they're out there. If you've been around a M6, you know the typical song and dance... A solid chassis, a well balanced suspension, willing engine and transmissions, and pretty good reliability. The difficult part is that they seem to be hard to find, especially the hatchbacks. Find a four-pot with a stick, and its driving bliss.


Some other food for thought...

Dodge Journey
Yes, I'm serious. They're really not that bad, they just didn't get the press they deserve. They're certainly good looking, and I haven't heard a lot of terrible things about their build quality. Problem is, you'd have to own a Dodge, and seeing as how there probably isn't a dealer within 200 miles of Seattle, good luck finding one. If you do, I'd bet they'd practically give you a brand new one. Nearly for free.

B5.5 Volkswagen Passat Wagon
If you stick with VW, you've got options. The B5.5 went on for quite a long time, and late generation models are pretty much rock solid in terms of build quality. You had the option of the 1.8T (my choice), the VR6 or the W8 and could have it with front or all-wheel drive. Not a bad option if you find a well taken care of model. I'd prefer it to the Audi or the Volvo, but I'm insane.

 

[homeforsummer]

Volkswagen Tiguan

I like the Tiguan. It looks pretty good, feels like a real quality product inside (true of most VWs though, I suppose), has loads of space, comes with some good engines, and supposed to be okay to drive. I'd have one.

Mazda 6 Sportwagon/Mazda 6 Hatchback

Also good. Did the V6 version you got over there come with manual transmission? If so, I'd be after that one.

Dodge Journey

Why, in the name of all that is Holy, would you want to swap the Celica for a minivan? I could just about understand you swapping it for a Caliber... or an Avenger... or even something like a Chevy HHR if you really need something with loads of space... but not a Journey. Seriously, a Journey. You may as well just find a trailer trash girl, have sixteen kids and cram them all into a Grand Caravan...

 

[Philly]

Well, there are some worthwhile alternatives to look at which may or may not be as sporty, but interesting nevertheless:

Volkswagen Tiguan
They haven't sold as well as I had thought they would, and I have no idea what the going rates are on newly used models, but its a solid option in the CUV market. Generally speaking, its a GTI on stilts that can carry things. Lots of things.

That's a pretty good idea. I've had to talk dad out of an RDX and the new Outback, so they might like a CUV like this, especially from VW. I've always thought they were kinda cool.

 

[YSSMAN]

Did the V6 [Mazda6 Wagon - Ed.] version you got over there come with manual transmission? If so, I'd be after that one.

I'm pretty sure the US versions had an optional stick, but they made so few of them that I can't really remember ever seeing one in person. Between the Wagon and the Hatch, however, I'd have to lean toward the hatchback. They're so rare, but so totally awesome that if I ever came across one, I'd be forced into buying it.

Why, in the name of all that is Holy, would you want to swap the Celica for a minivan?

Would I upgrade to a Journey? No, but its a halfway decent suggestion if they're looking for a semi-sporty crossover for nearly free. Local dealers are practically giving them away, and seeing as how the feelings in the automotive press were that they're "not that good, but also not that bad," it was worth a shot. I personally like the look of the Journey myself:

(also: not a minivan)

If Dodge would have spent a little more money on the interior and got around to installing a halfway decent powertrain setup in the crossover, I think they could have had a hit in the segment. Instead, they dropped the ball substantially. Hopefully the forthcoming updates fix some of that, but by no means would I take it over the Chevrolet Equinox at this point (arguably the best crossover available at the moment).


RE: The Tiguan

I personally haven't fiddled with as many as I'd have liked to by this point, but if you (Phil) let your parents know that it offers most of the same driving experiences as the GTI... Mainly because it is a GTI... You'd probably be more likely to talk them out of an RDX or Legacy. Plus, the RDX is crazy expensive by comparison. Then you can show them what the new Legacy looks like (gross). Easy sell for Team VW once again!

 

[Philly]

could have had a hit in the segment. Instead, they dropped the ball substantially. Hopefully the forthcoming updates fix some of that, but by no means would I take it over the Chevrolet Equinox at this point (arguably the best crossover available at the moment).


RE: The Tiguan

I personally haven't fiddled with as many as I'd have liked to by this point, but if you (Phil) let your parents know that it offers most of the same driving experiences as the GTI... Mainly because it is a GTI... You'd probably be more likely to talk them out of an RDX or Legacy. Plus, the RDX is crazy expensive by comparison. Then you can show them what the new Legacy looks like (gross). Easy sell for Team VW once again!

We had a rental Journey when we were dropping me off for school last year. It honestly wasn't that flattering. Perhaps a better interior would help considerably.

The Tiguan would be awesome. But after driving some of the other cars on that list, I think I'd rather them take some of the wagons over the VW. I love the GTI and it's amazing to drive, but the Legacy and BMW in particular put the GTI to shame in terms of driving dynamics I think. Maybe I'm just used to the GTI. And I legitimately enjoyed driving the Legacy more than the GTI, which is almost like a video game in comparison.

But they aren't really interested in the RDX or Outback, mostly due to the SUV-ness. Although dad really was impressed with the new Outback and Legacy.

 

[homeforsummer]

Would I upgrade to a Journey? No, but its a halfway decent suggestion if they're looking for a semi-sporty crossover for nearly free. Local dealers are practically giving them away, and seeing as how the feelings in the automotive press were that they're "not that good, but also not that bad," it was worth a shot. I personally like the look of the Journey myself:

If Dodge would have spent a little more money on the interior and got around to installing a halfway decent powertrain setup in the crossover, I think they could have had a hit in the segment. Instead, they dropped the ball substantially. Hopefully the forthcoming updates fix some of that, but by no means would I take it over the Chevrolet Equinox at this point (arguably the best crossover available at the moment).

Sorry, when I replied I thought it was your thread for a second and replied as if you were looking at said cars... though I'm still not keen on the Journey. It doesn't look bad, but then most Dodges at the moment look pretty good, they seem to have found a sweet spot in which to style the range... but the Journey is just uninteresting. It's just a couple of boxes with wheels.

Ford's crossovers are more interesting, the Edge and the Flex. Or the Lincoln version of the Edge, whatever it's called. Though I don't know if Lincolns are still an "old folks" sort of brand, I'm not too clued up since all the shakearounds that have been going on in your car industry!

Still, I'd go for the Tiguan, or the TDI Jetta that Philly mentioned in his original list.

Though if Philly's parents are interested in the 3-Series wagon, how about the X3? Or maybe even a second hand X5? The X5 is one of those cars that 90% of owners buy again and again they're so happy with them, so they must be pretty good to own.

 

[Philly]

I feel like I should mention that my parents pretty much have zero interest in SUVs or anything 'with a high center of gravity' as dad would put it. Whether or that's actually accurate or not doesn't really matter I guess.

And getting to X5 sizes, I imagine the driving dynamics start to go downhill. Part of the appeal to the Legacy is that it's a great driver's car, which dad is really looking for since the GTI won't be around.

 

[YSSMAN]

I guess he'd have to think about the Legacy versus the Forrester. Personally, I think both are hideous in their own respects, but late-model Legacies aren't that bad. An older Forrester XT would be right up your alley I'd think, but God only knows how those WRX-powered beasties have been trashed by now.

 

[homeforsummer]

And getting to X5 sizes, I imagine the driving dynamics start to go downhill.

You'd be surprised. But each to their own.

 

[niky]

X5 = muscle car. And not the door-handles to the floor kind... but an honest to goodness, easy-to-chuck big chunk of metal.

If they don't want one, no problem, but an X5 with the diesel is high on my list of respectable cars.

 

[Philly]

You'd be surprised. But each to their own.

Oh yeah, I know that driving dynamics aren't always connected to the size of the vehicle, especially in the case of the X5, which is a great road vehicle from everything I've heard.

But there's still the issue of bigness which doesn't really go well with the family, gas mileage and the BMW and SUV combo stigma that mom hates. I have no idea where it comes from, but she absolutely hates "flashy" cars, and so that means BMWs are all pretty much evil cars. And I don't think there's much taht can be done about that. We might still be able to manage the 3-Series wagon based solely on the fact that it is a great car, period. Like it or hate it, it's a great car and still needs to be respected.

Funny though, I could see her driving a Prius or Lexus.

But yeah, they're really only in the market for wagons. True, some of the new crossovers can be pretty cool but my parents are the liberals that had something nasty to say to every SUV driver they encountered on the roads. So SUVs and CUVs are pretty out.

 

[///M-Spec]

I have no idea where it comes from, but she absolutely hates "flashy" cars, and so that means BMWs are all pretty much evil cars. And I don't think there's much taht can be done about that.

She thinks a 3er is a flashy car? I don't know about your home town, but in most US metropolitan areas the streets are so thick with entry level luxury cars, 3ers, A4s and G35s may as well be Civics. Drive a 3er around my parts and you may as well be invisible. My S4 gets zilch attention. Not even M3s get a second glance from most people.


M

 

[Philly]

She thinks a 3er is a flashy car? I don't know about your home town, but in most US metropolitan areas the streets are so thick with entry level luxury cars, 3ers, A4s and G35s may as well be Civics. Drive a 3er around my parts and you may as well be invisible. My S4 gets zilch attention. Not even M3s get a second glance from most people.


M

It's just the BMW badge thing. It's pretty irrational, and I have no idea where it comes from. Especially since, as you said, they blend in along with everything else nowadays. Basically, I was telling her about the 3-Series (without mentioning BMW) and she asked if it was a BMW. After I said yes, she said "Well then I don't like it because it's a BMW and BMWs are flashy cars and I don't like flashy cars."

Funny that she's a-okay with the idea of the Audi. But in all seriousness, the badge shouldn't matter if the car is as good as the 3-series is. Which she doesn't quite understand. I don't even particularly like BMWs yet I still want one because they're that good.