Ferrari F2007: Finally driven...

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So, I took some time out from getting rammed online, to actually finish the S class events and buy the F1 car this weekend. Once I had it, I decided to take it online to the Fuji race. Wow. Fun car. But I realized something. I will need a wheel.

Now, for all the other cars, using the controller will work. Won't be as smooth as I want to be, but good enough to hang with the big dogs. I have really worked on my "throttle" application, and have smoothed it out a bunch. But steering is still more "jab, jab, jab, then smooth out from center an back. Which, like I said will work with pretty much every car in the game. Except the F2007. No way. Try that, and the car does, literally, that. Jab, jab, jab. Not smooth. Not fluid. So, its either spend countless hours working on making my steering as smooth as my throttle with the stick, or get a wheel. And knowing that my throttle application still is not where I want it to be, I think I will be going with the later.
 
You can't.

But If I could change the settings, I'd set the wheel to something like 440º, not 270º. 270º is too unrealistic, it's like driving with the sixaxis if you ask me.
 
I had to turn down the feedback setting for the F2007 at Fuji as I found the effect to be a little "violent" for my table top.
 
I know most race cars do not have 900 degrees, I'm not 100% sure but I think the true F1 cars are 240 degrees, I am sure it's less than 360.

I bought the DFP because the Momo wouldn't work with GT4, and I just didn't like it. But I like to drive the full on race cars. I have never been one to enjoy the slow side of Gran Turismo. Driving a 68hp FF car is not the reason I play the game, so the lower degree of turn is favorable to me.
 
I had to turn down the feedback setting for the F2007 at Fuji as I found the effect to be a little "violent" for my table top.

I turn my force feedback all the way up in the F2007. I Love it when you go on the straight and you literally can't control the wheel from going back and fourth until you break.
 
The wheel on real F1 cars turns at least 360 degrees, but I'm sure like everthing in F1 it can be changed to suit the driver's preference. Watch for the grand hotel hairpin.

 
My force feed back is set at 3. I thought 5 was a little hard to turn on Fuji, esp trying to keep up with Earth =p

setting's 1 and 2 are to "light" i cant feel the car as well. why i dont set it higher is because my wheel is only attached to the arm of a chair lol. the chair does tend to move from time to time is i get to rough with it.
 
I really enjoyed driving this car, but I was disappointed to see the lap times you can run in this car were much faster than the F1 lap records for Suzuka and Fuji. Think they will adjust this for the full version so it will be more realistic?
 
Personally I thought that I wouldn't enjoy the F2007 but now that I have it I am a bit hooked. It suits Fuji down to the ground which is awesome.

As for wheels I use the G25 but when I comes to turning I never really go past 300degrees in any case, so too me the 900 setting is not such a problem.
 
i personnaly have no problem with the G25 and its 900 setting. i find i never need to turn the wheel more then 180 either way and still hold some of the fastest times on fuji.
 
I really enjoyed driving this car, but I was disappointed to see the lap times you can run in this car were much faster than the F1 lap records for Suzuka and Fuji. Think they will adjust this for the full version so it will be more realistic?

I've always wondered about comparing lap times with real life. On one hand the real F1 drivers are, more than likely, more skilled than your average sim racer but on the other hand we don't have to worry about things like actually dying if we cook a corner. Coupled with the inordinate amount of test laps we can do - maybe that gives sim racers the edge?
 
I've always wondered about comparing lap times with real life. On one hand the real F1 drivers are, more than likely, more skilled than your average sim racer but on the other hand we don't have to worry about things like actually dying if we cook a corner. Coupled with the inordinate amount of test laps we can do - maybe that gives sim racers the edge?

No, the physics etc are just wrong. Has nothing to do with skill levels, our F1 car is just faster. 👍
 
I've always wondered about comparing lap times with real life. On one hand the real F1 drivers are, more than likely, more skilled than your average sim racer but on the other hand we don't have to worry about things like actually dying if we cook a corner. Coupled with the inordinate amount of test laps we can do - maybe that gives sim racers the edge?

I would agree with that logic to some extent except there's a significant difference between the lap times. Best in GT5 is a 1:15 at Fuji meanwhile Hamilton has the record at 1:28. Even I was able to better that despite just buying the G25 yesterday and trying the F2007 for the first time today. After only a few laps I was able to run a 1:19. 👎

If this has to do with the physics it will be really disappointing for getting something like the Top Gear test track where it won't be a fair comparison between what we do in game compared to the Stig's times.
 
They set them up with extra lock for Monaco. Normally they have less.

I thought it was the other way around. I thought they had less wheel lock only for Monaco, you know, corners just keep coming.

I take it you routinely drive F2007s to be knowing this?

Obviously not. But if you drive an F1 or another openwheel in say LFS using 900º steering lock, you'll feel something is not right, the same happens in GT.

I think spending 5 minutes in-game on Suzuka is sufficient experience for me to come up with the same conclusion as Dark_Ruffo. It's a personal preference anyways.

Yeah, I used Suzuka as a Benchmark too.

And yeah, it might be a "personal preference", but I doubt an F1 driver would choose 900º over 440º (most PC sims suggest to use F1s and openwheels in 440º mode).

I would agree with that logic to some extent except there's a significant difference between the lap times. Best in GT5 is a 1:15 at Fuji meanwhile Hamilton has the record at 1:28. Even I was able to better that despite just buying the G25 yesterday and trying the F2007 for the first time today. After only a few laps I was able to run a 1:19.

Hamilton's fastest lap was under wet conditions. IIRC, Kimi did a low 1:18 during friday practice.
 
Chances are PD won't be factoring fuel load into the equation - plus it's perfect track and tyre condition every time.
 
If this has to do with the physics it will be really disappointing for getting something like the Top Gear test track where it won't be a fair comparison between what we do in game compared to the Stig's times.

It wouldnt be a fair comparison anyway, playing a simulator doesnt give you the real life worries and sensations driving a car on the edge. Thus, you can drive a lot harder than someone in real life, because you have no worries about crashing the car and damaging yourself or the car.
 
C'mon the Formula 1 car in this game is far grippier and has more power then the real F1

Here's a test. Sit the car still and start turning the wheel. You will have to turn the wheel 450 degrees in one direction to get the tires turned all the way in one direction. A racecar driver could never use the car to the full if he had to turn it that much.

The lap record at Suzuka is a 1'31.5, the online record is a 1'25.7.

The lap record at Fuji according to wikipedia is 1'24. Online record is 1'14.0. Even if a Ferrari ran a 1'18 there in practice that's still 4 seconds off the pace.

You don't go 5.5+ seconds faster just because you're not scared to crash and have alot of practice laps.

And what tires are you using in the Suzuka and Fuji time trial? N3. What do you think will happen if you put these cars on R1 race tires? 9gs?

900 degree steering has to be turned off for the F1. It's manageable but still a pain (literally) at Fuji, but at Suzuka I feel like I'm going to break my wrists crossing my arms over and turning the wheel 200+ degrees through almost every turn trying to get the maximum out of the car's turning ability.

The top times at Fuji either use a SIXAXIS or they don't mind tearing up their arms using a wheel. I do mind.

Basic point is the F1 car in GT5P is 5-10 mph faster down the straights and is much grippier then the real thing
 
I've never seen any racecar, especially a Formula 1 use more then 220 degrees of steering. Notice the F1 drivers only turn the wheel more then 45 degrees in the tightest of corners.



Driver: Michael Schumacher

Car: Ferrari F2006

Track: Suzuka Circuit

Corner: Hairpin

Steering angle: 170-180º x 2 = At least 340~360º lock to lock.

The lap record at Suzuka is a 1'31.5, the online record is a 1'25.7.

Massa did 1'29.599 on his F2006 during saturday's qualification.

Last time I checked, the fastest lap on Suzuka in the online rankings was something like 1'28, using non slick S2 tires.

And what tires are you using in the Suzuka and Fuji time trial? N3. What do you think will happen if you put these cars on R1 race tires? 9gs?

N3? Online rankings only allow you to race with non slick tires, S2 tires.

On a side note, slick tires for next F1 season make the cars like 3 seconds faster using even less downforce than this season. Current tires are non slick.

900 degree steering has to be turned off for the F1. It's manageable but still a pain (literally) at Fuji, but at Suzuka I feel like I'm going to break my wrists crossing my arms over and turning the wheel 100+ degrees through almost every turn trying to get the maximum out of the car's turning ability.

Agreed.
 
OK so I drove the F1 wtih G25.. and seems I never go past 360 degree of turn. I think its spot on.
Anyone knows what is exact average angle of a F1 turn? I mean How far the wheels turn
 
dark_ruffo


Driver: Michael Schumacher

Car: Ferrari F2006

Track: Suzuka Circuit

Corner: Hairpin

Steering angle: 170-180º x 2 = At least 340~360º lock to lock.


You're right, I was thinking 45 degrees = 90 degrees that's how I got so far off, notice I edited it out of my orginal post. Shame that I got that mixed up, I use to run Flight Simulator alot and all the degrees game natural to me but I haven't run the simulator in a while.

dark_ruffo
Massa did 1'29.599 on his F2006 during saturday's qualification.

Last time I checked, the fastest lap on Suzuka in the online rankings was something like 1'28, using non slick S2 tires.

N3? Online rankings only allow you to race with non slick tires, S2 tires.

1'25.7 is from the F2007 Time Trial that you find in the race events. It forces you to use N3 tires there.

Interesting point about the S2 tires being non slicks with grooves, but I can only wonder how the grip of a Sports 2 tire compares to a Formula 1 racing tire with grooves. To me I think the grooved Formula 1 tire still has alot more grip then PD's Sports 2 tire.

NoxNoctis Umbra
OK so I drove the F1 wtih G25.. and seems I never go past 360 degree of turn. I think its spot on.
Anyone knows what is exact average angle of a F1 turn? I mean How far the wheels turn

I don't mind turning the wheel 360 degrees, but only for sharp slow corners. All the F1 onboards show the drivers not using more then 100 degrees of steering to make the turns except for the hairpins when they turn it 180+ degrees.

In GT5P to get the maximum cornering ability of the car with a wheel you need to turn it 200+ degrees far too often which to me gets annoying and painful after a while.
 
I really enjoyed driving this car, but I was disappointed to see the lap times you can run in this car were much faster than the F1 lap records for Suzuka and Fuji. Think they will adjust this for the full version so it will be more realistic?
First of all, let me say that while I personally am not convinced the physics for the F2007 in GT5P are spot on, I'm also more than willing to admit that there is no way of knowing if it is or not because there are far too many variables to do an accurate comparison.

Even Kimi Raikkonen, Felipe Massa, Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, and Michael Schumacher would not be able to do an accurate comparison despite all having spent time behind the wheel of the F2007.

Nor could Nigel Stepney (or Mike Coughlan for that matter ;)), despite being intimately familiar with all the technical specifications of the F2007.

Heck, even Aldo Costa and Nicholas Tombazis would not be able to do an accurate comparison despite having designed the darn car.

The fact is the F2007, like most race cars has no "stock" settings and they are even changing out equipment all the time, so the first thing that would have to be done to do an accurate comparison is to be sure both the real F2007 and the one in GT5P have the exact same equipment and adjustments.

In addition you have to be sure both cars are using the exact same type of tire.

Now you have to be sure both cars are being driven by the same person to avoid the effect different driving styles have on a car's overall performance.

Now even then you still have problems... in GT5P, the F2007 like all the cars is in 100% perfect condition. While Ferrari prides itself on its reliability and equipment, in real life equipment fails. Sure, most of the time it's fairly minor failures, but any failure, no matter how small can impact a cars performance.

OK, let's assume you have a 100% perfect F2007, and you have met all the other variables listed above, you still have plenty of other variables that make an accurate comparison next to impossible:
  • Track Condition:

    GT5P's tracks never change. No oil spots, no debris, nothing that would randomly impact a test lap.

  • Weather:

    In real life you can't control the weather, and it can change at any moment. Trying to replicate the exact weather conditions between a game and real life is next to impossible... and yet weather certainly has a big effect on lap times... and I'm not just talking about rain. A temperature difference of just 10 degrees will effect lap times.

  • Physics:

    In the real world, drivers have to deal with things like G-forces, suspension forces, and wind all of which can and do impact a driver's ability to focus strictly on hitting each and every apex perfectly.

  • POV:

    In real life you have to wear a lot of gear including helmets that restrict movement. You are constantly being shaken around making it not only hard to focus, but very difficult to see what's behind you... although when hot lapping, this is unnecessary any way. In real life you are restricted to one POV, where as in a game, if it is more suited to your racing style/technique, you can race from any number of different POVs.

  • Risk:

    In real life, unless a driver is truly insane, especially on more dangerous tracks, by far most, if not all drivers can't always race each lap right on the edge of disaster... a gamer on the other hand only has to restart... which brings us to...

  • Track Experience:

    In real life, it can cost millions of dollars for an F1 team to spend a day at a specific race track doing testing. In a game, one can do it for free, running thousands of laps, fine tuning both the car and your skills for that track, under those conditions. To put it in perspective, a virtual driver can run as many laps on Suzuka over one weekend as Michael Schumacher did over his entire career in F1… that’s a huge advantage.
All of these criteria/conditions give virtual drivers a huge advantage over real world race drivers in terms of comparing lap times.

Sure, real drivers have some advantages over virtual ones, like:
  • Greater Reaction Times:

    They didn't earn a seat in an F1 for having poor hand/foot and eye coordination and slow reaction times. :)

  • Car Control:

    They have much better steering wheels, and pedals for control.

  • Car & Track Feedback:

    They can be in tune with their car's maximum capabilities and the track at any given time much better due to the way a real driver is "connected" to the car, where as the only physical feedback a virtual driver gets is maybe some feedback in the wheel... and maybe some rumble in the controller.

  • Peripheral View:

    Although for hot lapping that shouldn't be all that important.
However, overall, the virtual driver has a significant advantage over real drivers, which is also why had the best lap times in GT5P been the same or slower than their real world counterparts, then if any thing that would prove the physics in GT5P were likely not accurate.

The fact that the best F2007 lap times in GT5P are only about 5% faster than in real life suggests to me that the overall physics in GT5P is a heck of a lot closer to the real thing than many are willing to believe.

I will say though, I still think in terms of grip, the F2007 in GT5P seems to be too generous - but I'm willing to concede that overall, the net effect seems to be pretty bloody accurate all things considered. 👍

For me personally though, I feel F1CE offers an overall more accurate F1 simulation... granted, it should considering it's an F1 game. :)
 
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