Genuine expert advice needed regarding random acts of cars not steering!!!

Right, i've searched to see if this has been covered already and it hasn't to the extent that i need advice on.
I have noticed that while doing the Nürburgring 4hr that occasionally while entering the tight downhill left-hand hairpin before the village and also the quick right-left-right before schwedenkrauz and the 2nd carrussel, that my car will not turn!!! Well, it does, but only minutely!!! Now, i could put this down to overly late braking on the hairpin but not the 2nd corner, because thats under acceleration!! And anyway, if it was sliding under lock-up, surely i'd hear tire squeal and see smoke?…which i don't!!
So i thought maybe it's worn tires but it happens occasionally on the 2nd lap out of the pits and dissapears the next !!! (which should be worse!?!?). It does happen on other corners but the two mentioned seem to be the worse offenders!!
I can only deduce it's my set-up, so i'll post 2 cars it's been the worse with and if anyone can see a common problem that's causing it i'll be grateful coz i'm stumped!!!
TVR tuscan RM…… Renault trophy race car
Aero: f-35 r-55…… Aero: f-15 r-30
LSD: 7-25-7…… LSD: 10-20-10
Suspension:…… Suspension:
ride ht: f-0 r-5…… ride ht: f-0 r-0
springs: f-11.5 r-11.0…… springs: f-9.8 r-10.8
damp-ex: f-8 r-7…… damp-ex: f-6 r-7
damp-com: f-6 r-5…… damp-com: f-5 r-6
anti r-bar: f-3 r-2…… anti r-bar: f-4 r-3
camber: f-2.0 r-1.0…… camber: f-2.0 r-1.0
toe: f- -0.10 r- -0.05…… toe: f- 0.10 r- 0.00
brakes: f-5 r-3…… brakes: f-5 r-4
Both cars are running racing softs.
Now i know some of you will say that the 0.10 front toe on the Renault could be the cause but, according to the graphic, this is actually slight toe-in, which, although initially making it slower to turn, should make it oversteer not slide almost straight on!! Especially when the weight is over the front wheels while trail-braking.
ANY help, advice, pointers, ideas, would be MORE than welcome!! Also if you've experienced something similar i'd love to hear your ideas and/or solutions!!!!
CHEERS!!

I dunno about the Renault, but with the TVR, you need to understeer out of the corners, meaning you should already be set going into the turn. Meaning, don't hit the gas until the nose is pointed where you want, and let the car understeer from the apex to the outside of the exit. Easy in, fast out.

With your tune, it's hard to tell if the problem is the driver or the car. Run a few laps with the stock car and see if the problem persists. If so, then tuning probably won't help as your initial turn in is off, and you need to adjust your technique. If you don't have the same problem, the tune is the cause.

Which is exactly why I don't touch the tune until I know what the car is capable of stock.

With the Renault, you're probably overloading front tires and suspension. FFs are great for snow and ice, but give it a quick turn with lots of HP, and you'll be asking way too much from only 2 tires, 3 at the most (as the outside rear will usually lift off the ground, losing it's grip).

As an experiment, I'd raise the ride heights by 5 or 10 front and back, and see if you can get it to happen again. If not, then it was probably bottoming out. This is a quick and easy way to eliminate that possibility.

McClarenDesign

I dunno about the Renault, but with the TVR, you need to understeer out of the corners, meaning you should already be set going into the turn. Meaning, don't hit the gas until the nose is pointed where you want, and let the car understeer from the apex to the outside of the exit. Easy in, fast out.

With your tune, it's hard to tell if the problem is the driver or the car. Run a few laps with the stock car and see if the problem persists. If so, then tuning probably won't help as your initial turn in is off, and you need to adjust your technique. If you don't have the same problem, the tune is the cause.

Which is exactly why I don't touch the tune until I know what the car is capable of stock.

With the Renault, you're probably overloading front tires and suspension. FFs are great for snow and ice, but give it a quick turn with lots of HP, and you'll be asking way too much from only 2 tires, 3 at the most (as the outside rear will usually lift off the ground, losing it's grip).

Click to expand...

The Renault is a MR race car!!!
Also, some cars it doesn't happen at all with and i kno the track well. My driving style is consistent and smooth but i am quite a late braker!!
Is there un-seen mechanical damage implemented in the higher A-Spec races??
I have the left stick on my DS3 cranked right over but it's like i have moved my thumb a couple of millimeters!!!
I also have an older 40g PS3 (the fat one) which is 3yrs old approx. Not used every day though.

Adrenaline

As an experiment, I'd raise the ride heights by 5 or 10 front and back, and see if you can get it to happen again. If not, then it was probably bottoming out. This is a quick and easy way to eliminate that possibility.

Click to expand...

Now that is something i haven't figured in!! Cheers Adrenaline, i'll give that a test and report back in a few days!!

Gupster74

The Renault is a MR race car!!!
Also, some cars it doesn't happen at all with and i kno the track well. My driving style is consistent and smooth but i am quite a late braker!!
Is there un-seen mechanical damage implemented in the higher A-Spec races??
I have the left stick on my DS3 cranked right over but it's like i have moved my thumb a couple of millimeters!!!
I also have an older 40g PS3 (the fat one) which is 3yrs old approx. Not used every day though.

Click to expand...

Groovy. I haven't driven the Renault and since it's French, I assumed it was a FF. Since it's a MR, the same rules as the TVR apply; understeer out of the corner. Should be a little easier than the TVR, since it's got a shorter wheelbase.

I thought I was the only one, or my DS3 was on its way out!

This has happened to me about 5 times in different cars, and is fine with same car one race and not turning next race!

phil_75

I thought I was the only one, or my DS3 was on its way out!

This has happened to me about 5 times in different cars, and is fine with same car one race and not turning next race!

Click to expand...

Same car turning okay one race and then not turning the next os a definite sign of bottoming out.

Adrenaline

As an experiment, I'd raise the ride heights by 5 or 10 front and back, and see if you can get it to happen again. If not, then it was probably bottoming out. This is a quick and easy way to eliminate that possibility.

Click to expand...

I was thinking this same thing. I'm looking forward to the OP's report on checking this out.
I've noticed in gt5 there are NOT CLEAR signs of a car bottoming out, and it can happen only on certain tracks... or only sometimes. You won't hear it scrape, and it's not always apparent in replays. Yet it does effect the handling of the car... by basically impeding it.
I can't think of anything else that would explain this problem with the Trophy race car, as in my experience, this car is very good with tight hairpins.

phil_75

I thought I was the only one, or my DS3 was on its way out!

This has happened to me about 5 times in different cars, and is fine with same car one race and not turning next race!

Click to expand...

This is definitely not my case as i bought a new ds3 recently but i was wondering if it was a glitch somehow.

Adrenaline

As an experiment, I'd raise the ride heights by 5 or 10 front and back

Click to expand...

I thought some more about this and realised that my ride height ic close to max as it is!! Would stiffening the springs also have the same affect?? I typically run softer springs for the 'ring to cope better with the bumps but maybe i've gone too soft??

Based on your OP your ride heights are at 0/5 and 0/0. Forgive my ignorance on these 2 cars, as I own neither, but I can only assume that at the very least, they can both go to 5/10 and 10/10 respectively. That should be enough to avoid bottoming out. If it's not then I would have to assume the issue lies somewhere else in the tune.

Adrenaline

Based on your OP your ride heights are at 0/5 and 0/0. Forgive my ignorance on these 2 cars, as I own neither, but I can only assume that at the very least, they can both go to 5/10 and 10/10 respectively. That should be enough to avoid bottoming out. If it's not then I would have to assume the issue lies somewhere else in the tune.

Click to expand...

You are right and forgive my ignorance but i guessed as little as an extra 10mm of height increase (if that really is the ammount the game leads us to believe we're changing!) would make barely any difference but i shoudn't assume these things out of hand!! So i will test the car at mx height when i get the chance and let you kno my findings!!
Cheers.

Gupster74

You are right and forgive my ignorance but i guessed as little as an extra 10mm of height increase (if that really is the ammount the game leads us to believe we're changing!) would make barely any difference but i shoudn't assume these things out of hand!! So i will test the car at mx height when i get the chance and let you kno my findings!!
Cheers.

Click to expand...

It can make a huge difference. There's some spots where the car at a given height will "hit" the ground regardless due to surface irregularities (where 10mm of height can be the difference between scraping and clearing with 2-3mm from the tarmac), other places it's caused by the suspension compressing too much in which case either a higher ride height OR stiffer springs will fix it. Hell, in some cases stiffer dampers will do it too.

The TVR seems to perhaps have too hard springs, and possibly the EXT might be a bit high too. *

I have been running the premium Renaultsport Clio V6 in the French Seasonals around Circ De Sarthe, I'll have a look later at my spring rates. Circ is as bumpy if not more so than the Nordschleife...

{Cy}

* - Try ride height first, as suggested above. A bit more room for the springs to work might negate the need to adjust them...

CyKosis1973

The TVR seems to perhaps have too hard springs, and possibly the EXT might be a bit high too. *

I have been running the premium Renaultsport Clio V6 in the French Seasonals around Circ De Sarthe, I'll have a look later at my spring rates. Circ is as bumpy if not more so than the Nordschleife...

{Cy}

* - Try ride height first, as suggested above. A bit more room for the springs to work might negate the need to adjust them...

Click to expand...

I realise that the lighter the car is, the softer the spring rates should be but my TVR is running the full RM package and therefore has a bit of downforce to contend with. I would say that softer springs would compound the problem on this car but the ext idea is worth looking into i'm sure.
Out of interest CyKosis, if you could share with me your spring and damper settings so i could try your set up i'd be very grateful.
(Bearing in mind my car is the trophy RACE car, not the road-going version)