The Le Mans General Discussion Thread

FoolKiller
I should add the addendum: Needs a console/tablet app. Don't make me spend hours looking at a PC monitor Technology is well beyond that point, unfortunately television production companies still think fire is a new invention.
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As good as that would be, the whole stream thing so far isn't all that good in App form. I tried it with the 24 Hours of Dubai and it is unbearable. Lots of starting and stopping along with delayed audio (which is really awkward when its a live race going on). Its actually worse then watchESPN's connection at their worse. I know you really aren't feeling the Staring at PC thing, but I wouldn't say the technology is quite ready yet. Besides if you don't like staring at the PC, get a laptop :P

Works just fine for me.
 
jjaisli
It's been my understanding that the TV rights have traditionally been a significant source of income for the ALMS (I suppose they are for most high profile racing series). So any kind of streaming, live or post race, has always been by agreement and with permission from the host broadcaster. As such, they're in a position to dictate what they will or won't allow. It's for this reason that you used to be able to watch races live from the ALMS website, but only if you were outside the US and outside the spectrum of ESPN3's coverage. In the beginning, it was very easy to circumvent. But as time went by, they closed a lot of holes.

I think the ALMS was and still is, in a very difficult position. They want to grow their audience and that's hard to do when the races aren't broadcast on network TV. But try to sell a 3 or 4 or 6 hour race to one of the big over-air TV networks--nearly impossible outside of the Indy 500 or a NASCAR event. And with a decrease in ad revenue during and post recession, everything I've heard indicates that Speed just wasn't willing to offer them the kind of package they were hoping for. Or let's say, the kind of package they needed to sustain themselves.

Unfortunately, the ESPN3 deal hasn't exactly worked out for them either. It's a dilemma--how do you grow your audience (by pure exposure) at the risk of alienating your hardcore fans (who are angered by tape delayed and truncated coverage).

I'm sure the ALMS would LOVE to stream all of their races live and offer multi-car views. But it won't happen until it's economically feasible. I think we're getting closer and closer to that point. But it's pretty clear we're not quite 'there' yet.
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What could work is to take a cue from Grand-Am (you know since they're merging ;)) and upload every single race in its entirety to their website, including the longer ones--segmented of course--a few days or a week after each race. That way most people will pay to see it live, follow with live timing, etc., or go to races, since that is the most fun way to do it for hardcore race fans. Then when the race is over and no longer significant, others in lower income brackets can still catch the race without much hardship. I thought they actually were starting to do this, but I'm not sure.
 
Tower Turn 13
What could work is to take a cue from Grand-Am (you know since they're merging ;)) and upload every single race in its entirety to their website, including the longer ones--segmented of course--a few days or a week after each race. That way most people will pay to see it live, follow with live timing, etc., or go to races, since that is the most fun way to do it for hardcore race fans. Then when the race is over and no longer significant, others in lower income brackets can still catch the race without much hardship. I thought they actually were starting to do this, but I'm not sure.
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I do like that. I watched both grand am cota broadcasts right from the website. Btw: merger press conference tomorrow.
 
Tower Turn 13
It seems I was right, they do upload past race broadcasts. The ETA from race to upload though is something I don't know.
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Usually the rolex series race is uploaded the tuesday after the race. The ctscc race is uploaded tge following week due to tape delay of the tv showing which is a week after the actual race. I thought most series had some form of what gramd am .com has. It's really convenient. They post highlight reels of the race about the same time.
 
Ardius
I'm not arguing and I already explained why I brought up tyres. I'm not going to keep repeating it.
I don't see why a set of tyres being designed before another necessarily means they are better and I'm not disputing that they could be better. I'm just saying there is a difference in them as well as the engine.

I'm not even saying the DW is slower than before, I was just pointing out other variables. But next time I'll just shut up.
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Well, I don't think saying the tires are a part of the problem is founded. That's all. The major difference is a new engine. It's no longer the Nissan but a 'Mazda' and those in the know are saying the trouble is mechanical and engine related.
LongbowX
I do understand the difference, thank you very much. Le Mans and Petit are different animals though, I wouldn't necessarily compare the two as the track changes quite a bit over the time and the night of Le Mans. I was merely pointing out that Muscle Milk is not as easily trounced as you make them out to be, that's all. Instead you want to jab at me that I don't understand endurance racing. Winning is important, but it isn't everything - it is also important to appreciate everyone else who competed and their strengths and accomplishments. I obviously take a different viewpoint than you.
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I didn't say Rebellion would thrash MMilk. I'm pointing out that Rebellion is the best Privateer team there is right now, the results speak for themselves. MMilk may have great drivers, may have the capability to equal or even best Rebellion's times. But they have a big task in beating them when Strakka and JRM have only beaten them twice in the recent past. Jani and Heidfeld are rated very highly and are looking potentially as future factory LMP drivers.
Hun200kmh
Well, I never replied or comment, but let it be known that I agree with you. The the tyres are a very important variable and I do think that at this point in time it would be a miracle if the Bridgestones (DW spec) perform as well as the Michelins would if fitted to the car.

Nothing against Bridgestone, but:

a) Michelin are widely considered the BEST in sports cars racing. Their continued presence and experience has something to do with it.

b) Michelin worked very closely with the deltawing project for many, many months, did many, many miles in testing, in many tracks around the globe (well, USA and Europe). And fitted this car with tyres that actually raced at Le Mans and Road Atlanta.

c) Bridgestone, regardless of its past historical ties with the "Indy DW" (never a car, just a concept, remember), has been announced as partner just a few days ago, and although we can't be sure, is learning it all and doing mileage for it just now. Maybe they had a few secret tests before Road Atlanta, but nothing comparable to the testing - and racing - done with Michelin.

So, yeah ... I'd give it a 99% probability that the Bridgestones aren't today as effective as the Michelins. But I'vce no doubt they'll be, if Bridgestone cares to make them so.
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AFAIK the Michelin tires weren't anything specifically designed for the DW and were tires based on other teams' running them. These Bridgestones can be specific tires for the DW as they aren't supplying any other team. Remember the relationship they had with Ferrari in F1 and people envied this. Michelin may be known for endurance racing, but Bridgestone is actively involved in SuperGT and that's their major sportscar series. I have a good feeling about their tires and what they could do for the DW.
 
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LongbowX
I do understand the difference, thank you very much. Le Mans and Petit are different animals though, I wouldn't necessarily compare the two as the track changes quite a bit over the time and the night of Le Mans. I was merely pointing out that Muscle Milk is not as easily trounced as you make them out to be, that's all. Instead you want to jab at me that I don't understand endurance racing. Winning is important, but it isn't everything - it is also important to appreciate everyone else who competed and their strengths and accomplishments. I obviously take a different viewpoint than you.
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I agree with you, Longbow. Winning isn't everything... If it is then maybe that's why Gentlemen's racing is dead...
 
freshseth83
I didn't say Rebellion would thrash MMilk. I'm pointing out that Rebellion is the best Privateer team there is right now, the results speak for themselves. MMilk may have great drivers, may have the capability to equal or even best Rebellion's times. But they have a big task in beating them when Strakka and JRM have only beaten them twice in the recent past. Jani and Heidfeld are rated very highly and are looking potentially as future factory LMP drivers.
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I would agree that Rebellion is a fearsome team - which is why I'm looking forward so much to this years ALMS! I personally think that Muscle Milk have the best drivers line up of the two (even better than Audi's too, hah) but drivers aren't everything either. I do believe they have a shot of beating Rebellion though, but we'll see how well they do - it should be good. :D

thewheelman83
I agree with you, Longbow. Winning isn't everything... If it is then maybe that's why Gentlemen's racing is dead...
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Perhaps it's dead not because of that necessarily - but because of general lack of the $$$ it takes...
 
RACECAR
As good as that would be, the whole stream thing so far isn't all that good in App form.
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<Looks at ESPN, Netflix, Amazon, Cinema Now, Vudu, Cracked, Laugh Factory, etc. Apps on consoles and mobile devices>

I don't think the app form is your issue.

I tried it with the 24 Hours of Dubai and it is unbearable. Lots of starting and stopping along with delayed audio (which is really awkward when its a live race going on). Its actually worse then watchESPN's connection at their worse. I know you really aren't feeling the Staring at PC thing, but I wouldn't say the technology is quite ready yet.
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This sounds like either a bandwidth or compression issue. Possibly an overloaded host. If your bandwidth is fine then it means the problem is the technology isn't being taken advantage of properly. I've been watching numerous sporting events live for a few years now and if I've had the issues you describe it is either on my end or they would notify the viewer in some way of complications on their end. The only thing not quite ready about the technology is our experience with it.

Besides if you don't like staring at the PC, get a laptop :P
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Because a 17" screen on my lap is better than a 21" screen on my desk? Either is better than or equal to a 42" screen set at eye level when sitting in my recliner?

Works just fine for me.
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Get a toddler. Hard to watch anything an a laptop when tiny fingers are constantly pushing buttons and saying, "I want to do it." Then if you punish them you have to stop watching while you do that.

The fact is that their goal should be making it as painless as possible to watch the full coverage if they want higher viewership. They can justify cutting away by saying the ratings drop after that time. Well, if you cut away and ask me to watch it on a whole new machine then I can guarantee that will happen.
 
^ That's what I do as well. I've been quite happy with the ESPN3 experience. But, as was noted earlier, some people are just SOL because of their internet provider.
 
Practise 1 finished, Audi dominates, MMilk is close, Rebellion a bit behind.

The deltawing has improved a bit, now very close to its former LMP2 pace.

In GT we had Aston followed closely by the two Corvettes.

Another 2 practise sessions today, one of those at night.



http://scoring.alms.com/



I think the car looks very ugly in this coupe form. Cockpit looks like an oversized bubble ... :yuck:

updelta.jpg
 
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Hun200kmh
Practise 1 finished, Audi dominates, MMilk is close, Rebellion a bit behind.
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Baring mechanical gremlins and attrition, that's pretty much how I would expect them to finish. But if the 2012 season is any indication, (1) a factory team with deep pockets, isn't likely to lose and (2) the slight edge in pace that the HPD ARX enjoyed over the Lola B12/60, wasn't enough to offset their mechanical woes. So I'm guessing, Audi--Audi--Rebellion.

Hun200kmh
In GT we had Aston followed closely by the two Corvettes.
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That battle is so tight, it's impossible to predict. Risi is back but their performance is a question mark after a one year hiatus. And the BMW Z4's performance is unproved over 12 hours of speed bump hell. I won't even venture a guess.


Hun200kmh
I think the car looks very ugly in this coupe form. Cockpit looks like an oversized bubble ... :yuck:
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JUST in coupe form? :sly:
 
Tower Turn 13
I can solve everyone's problems:

laptop/pc--->HDMI cable--->television

You're welcome ;)
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But the remote?

Honestly, I've tried this, but without hiding the laptop the toddler is still an issue. She is drawn to keyboards.

Jav
Oh God, the ugliest race car in history just got uglier, a lot uglier!!
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Blindingly bright chrome doesn't work for you?
 
jjaisli
And the BMW Z4's performance is unproved over 12 hours of speed bump hell. I won't even venture a guess
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I have no doubt they'll hold up trough the 12 hrs, it's a new car for the ALMS, not a new car by any means, it survived(2 driveline failures trough the race) and was the fastest car for most of last year's N24 and we all know which is the tougher track and race of the 2!
 
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They really went with that, huh?

It will be shortened to USC and every conversation will go like this:

"I was watching the USC Saturday and..."
"OMG, Dude! What did you think of that slam Hortiz did? AWESOME! Blaaaahghhh!!! Joe Rogan Rawks"
"U Essss C, not UFC. And drink less Monster...douche."
 
FoolKiller
<Looks at ESPN, Netflix, Amazon, Cinema Now, Vudu, Cracked, Laugh Factory, etc. Apps on consoles and mobile devices>
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Ok, I need to rephase that:

As good as that would be, the whole stream thing so far hasn't been all that good in App form for me
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Don't know how else to say it, but I meant streaming as in live sporting events.


FoolKiller
I don't think the app form is your issue.


This sounds like either a bandwidth or compression issue. Possibly an overloaded host. If your bandwidth is fine then it means the problem is the technology isn't being taken advantage of properly. I've been watching numerous sporting events live for a few years now and if I've had the issues you describe it is either on my end or they would notify the viewer in some way of complications on their end. The only thing not quite ready about the technology is our experience with it.
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Strange thing is, the Stream would work fine on my laptop (with the odd stop once in a while), but it would be just a endless problem on a mobile device (with said issues) all the while on the same solid connection. I'll admit though, its just my phone as I have no tablet (simply because I just don't see myself using it at all).


FoolKiller
Because a 17" screen on my lap is better than a 21" screen on my desk? Either is better than or equal to a 42" screen set at eye level when sitting in my recliner?
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You know you can put that laptop on the desk, right? :P Yes you could watch the TV (Something I have no problem doing with my Sylvania 32' Inch TV if I can't watch it any other way) but if you don't like the unnecessarily increased amount of commercials or have races that have NO available television coverage AND you don't want to stair at the PC, then there's my suggestion :P

*Idea still in beta*

FoolKiller
Get a toddler. Hard to watch anything an a laptop when tiny fingers are constantly pushing buttons and saying, "I want to do it." Then if you punish them you have to stop watching while you do that.
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Hmmm.

Does a attention seeking Chuhuahua count? I know its not human, but its the closest I'm getting to anything remotely similar for...life:lol:

FoolKiller
The fact is that their goal should be making it as painless as possible to watch the full coverage if they want higher viewership. They can justify cutting away by saying the ratings drop after that time. Well, if you cut away and ask me to watch it on a whole new machine then I can guarantee that will happen.
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I hear what you are saying and I understand, it just doesn't seem to be working all that well for live stream outside my Laptop.
 
Should be "Us-car" (us as in you and I) not U.S. car- hopefully that sticks to give it some differentiation.

The 2013 Audi E-Tron is now back on track after it's accident in practice one which broke the front body work and suspension.
 
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Session finished, nothing special to report (Audi into the 1'45 s ... )

Interestingly the best GT this time was Bruni's 458.

Night practise session to follow.
 

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