2013 Formula One Spanish Grand Prix
- Thread starter lbsf1
- 400 comments
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- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
It's funny you say that, it is due to his close watch of the tires last year that helped him climb up the field from the back to finish 8th and ahead of his better qualifying team mate. The issue is the car, as evident from the dropping of a rock Rosberg did at Bahrain, this time it was Hamilton don't skew the facts to get a rise out of people and sound asinine.
EDIT: I must note that I shouldn't say better qualifying but rather better positioned on the grid after Lewis was issued his penalty.
Seismica
Premium
- 4,346
- Guisborough
- GTP_Seismica
Hamilton isn't the problem though, the Mercedes is. Rosberg may be better at managing the tyres, but twice in a row we've seen him rapidly drop down the order from his pole position start. Considering how dominant their pace in qualifying is, it's quite shocking how badly the car performs under race conditions (High fuel load, a need to manage the tyres etc.).
We saw last year whilst partnering Button (Who is renowned for being easy on tyres), that Hamilton can manage the Pirelli tyres.
- 804
- GTP_ZippyCat
My Rosberg quip was not a backtracking of my pro-Pirelli argument, by the way. The next race and its likely processional nature will be a function of the track, not the tires, cars or even drivers.
The Outlaw
Premium
- 3,042
- Bay Area, California
- GTP_timeattack
I thinks it's quite clear that the car is the main issue. All you need to do is watch Rosberg's horrible race pace at Bahrain to realize this, then you wouldn't unfairly criticize Hamilton's performance just a race later
And as mentioned before, on many occasions Hamilton had the upperhand on tire management against Button (who is known to be quite easy on his tires...for whatever that's worth) and often led the way in helping the team to understand how to set the car up properly to get the most out of the tires. Saying Hamilton is poor at managing tires (and doesnt have the mental capacity) is pure rubbish, and nothing more than a myth that has taken many years to lose it sails (as many others).
- 804
- GTP_ZippyCat
And Pirelli throws in the towel.
To the points James Allen makes in his report I'd add that it's possible there was pressure on Bernie from Sky. There was a posting on the Autosport forum by a guy who said he'd called Sky post-Barca to cancel his subscription in protest, only for them to offer him two months free and tell him they were getting a lot of complaints and the company was relaying them to the powers-that-be. Yet another reason to hate on Rupert Murdoch, if this is true.
As for Hamilton's performance, it was very clear to the eye and it's even clearer from the graph in the Allen report I linked in an earlier report that Lewis lunched his first set of tires via the big lock-up before even getting to the first turn of the race. His race never recovered from that. The lock-up was entirely down to the driver so all criticism of his performance versus Rosberg's in my view is entirely valid and fair.
And don't underestimate the response of the UK press to the tire issue being a function of pro-Lewis biases. I'd imagine the German press hasn't been keen on Pirelli either.
To the points James Allen makes in his report I'd add that it's possible there was pressure on Bernie from Sky. There was a posting on the Autosport forum by a guy who said he'd called Sky post-Barca to cancel his subscription in protest, only for them to offer him two months free and tell him they were getting a lot of complaints and the company was relaying them to the powers-that-be. Yet another reason to hate on Rupert Murdoch, if this is true.
As for Hamilton's performance, it was very clear to the eye and it's even clearer from the graph in the Allen report I linked in an earlier report that Lewis lunched his first set of tires via the big lock-up before even getting to the first turn of the race. His race never recovered from that. The lock-up was entirely down to the driver so all criticism of his performance versus Rosberg's in my view is entirely valid and fair.
And don't underestimate the response of the UK press to the tire issue being a function of pro-Lewis biases. I'd imagine the German press hasn't been keen on Pirelli either.
That was so awesome, my first Grand Prix.
I don't know how great the race was from a TV perspective, but from the circuit it was so, so good. Being that close to the cars for the entire weekend, the whole track atmosphere was excellent and the race day itself was very exciting. Everything runs like clockwork at a Formula One event, like as soon as one thing was over, they would be preparing for the next race, without fail. Very well organised and all was pretty spot on.
The Friday was my first day, we got there, (my parents and I), just after FP1 started. Yes, we were late. Dropped off around about 300 meters or so from the circuit and it sounded like the cars were just around the corner. I hadn't expected the volume of the cars like they are. I'm getting goose bumps thinking back on it. Ha, so cool.
Friday was a good day as the whole circuit, besides the paddock was open access for weekend ticket holders, so we got to venture round and visit the different stands and stuff. That was a good experience, and we ended up staying down by Turn 1 for FP2.
Come Saturday, with Qualifying, GP2 Feature Race and some Porsche action, that was a great day. I have plenty of pictures and videos from the whole weekend so I'll share some of them later when I get the chance to upload them. The GP2 Race was the first time I'd seen a whole pack of cars line up on the grid, and hear the roar of all the engines at once. I think this was my highlight moment of the weekend. It was mesmerising. Something I'll never forget.
Sunday was the longest day by far, we got there early to watch the GP3 Race and then the GP2 Sprint Race not long after. We were seated in the main Grand Stand (high), right opposite the McLaren and Ferrari garages. We had great views of the Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes garages too. I thought someone was going to plough in to the back of the car which didn't get away at the start in GP2. It was so intense when the rest of the field flew by, quite literally centimetres apart.
The race itself was great, seeing the whole grid full of cars and racing drivers and engineers and everyone else that's lucky enough to walk on the track. When the race was about to start, everything went silent in the stands. Nico Rosberg led the formation lap round the final corner and they all came to a halt. It felt like an age, waiting for them all to line up, the red lights began to count down. What I hadn't really noticed on TV before, is that when they're lining up, their only sitting there idle. When the lights begin, wow. What a roar. Twenty Two Formula One cars, revving their engines, before the race unfolds. Wow.
Green.
The rest you know. I'm so glad I went!
I don't know how great the race was from a TV perspective, but from the circuit it was so, so good. Being that close to the cars for the entire weekend, the whole track atmosphere was excellent and the race day itself was very exciting. Everything runs like clockwork at a Formula One event, like as soon as one thing was over, they would be preparing for the next race, without fail. Very well organised and all was pretty spot on.
The Friday was my first day, we got there, (my parents and I), just after FP1 started. Yes, we were late. Dropped off around about 300 meters or so from the circuit and it sounded like the cars were just around the corner. I hadn't expected the volume of the cars like they are. I'm getting goose bumps thinking back on it. Ha, so cool.
Friday was a good day as the whole circuit, besides the paddock was open access for weekend ticket holders, so we got to venture round and visit the different stands and stuff. That was a good experience, and we ended up staying down by Turn 1 for FP2.
Come Saturday, with Qualifying, GP2 Feature Race and some Porsche action, that was a great day. I have plenty of pictures and videos from the whole weekend so I'll share some of them later when I get the chance to upload them. The GP2 Race was the first time I'd seen a whole pack of cars line up on the grid, and hear the roar of all the engines at once. I think this was my highlight moment of the weekend. It was mesmerising. Something I'll never forget.
Sunday was the longest day by far, we got there early to watch the GP3 Race and then the GP2 Sprint Race not long after. We were seated in the main Grand Stand (high), right opposite the McLaren and Ferrari garages. We had great views of the Red Bull, Lotus and Mercedes garages too. I thought someone was going to plough in to the back of the car which didn't get away at the start in GP2. It was so intense when the rest of the field flew by, quite literally centimetres apart.
The race itself was great, seeing the whole grid full of cars and racing drivers and engineers and everyone else that's lucky enough to walk on the track. When the race was about to start, everything went silent in the stands. Nico Rosberg led the formation lap round the final corner and they all came to a halt. It felt like an age, waiting for them all to line up, the red lights began to count down. What I hadn't really noticed on TV before, is that when they're lining up, their only sitting there idle. When the lights begin, wow. What a roar. Twenty Two Formula One cars, revving their engines, before the race unfolds. Wow.
Green.
The rest you know. I'm so glad I went!
👍
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
While I'm glad we will get to see more interesting races,Not sure how this will go with Lotus and Ferrari designing a car to handle these extreme tyres then Pirelli changing them doesn't seem right.
- 7,177
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
It won't matter, Merc will do 4 stops anyway, RBR will be able to do 3, Ferrari will do 2 and Lotus just 1!
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
RTSolvalou
(Banned)
- 1,188
Disgraceful decision by Pirelli. If this results in Vettel winning races/the championship then I hope they get cancer. As we have said before, this is just more of 'Vettel's Luck', the meme is no mistake.
This is interfering with the results of a race/championship, the kind of thing you get hefty fines and potentially jail time for.
If you don't want to talk luck, then I believe this may be down to Pirelli trying to fix the tyres before someone gets killed (I think they should discuss/line up who will personally will get the blame if/when this happens, to avoid bs later), I'd say it seems like 1 in 100 are having the shredding issue within a few laps, although they are probably all capable of it the longer the tyres are used. But this isn't what Pirelli have said for the change, so this is not the reason. Their reason is general degredation/the extra stops.
I understand the teams' frustration with the tyre situation (and the new 'exploding' tyre lottery), and I think it's time F1 sat down and decided what the sport should become and start making it happen, rather than casually adding band-aid show-improving ideas, heading it off into an unknown form.
This is interfering with the results of a race/championship, the kind of thing you get hefty fines and potentially jail time for.
If you don't want to talk luck, then I believe this may be down to Pirelli trying to fix the tyres before someone gets killed (I think they should discuss/line up who will personally will get the blame if/when this happens, to avoid bs later), I'd say it seems like 1 in 100 are having the shredding issue within a few laps, although they are probably all capable of it the longer the tyres are used. But this isn't what Pirelli have said for the change, so this is not the reason. Their reason is general degredation/the extra stops.
I understand the teams' frustration with the tyre situation (and the new 'exploding' tyre lottery), and I think it's time F1 sat down and decided what the sport should become and start making it happen, rather than casually adding band-aid show-improving ideas, heading it off into an unknown form.
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- 7,485
- East Midlands
- m8h3r
Whilst I understand your frustration that's just a little over the top.
The tyres need sorting and I'm glad they're doing something about it but maybe it would have been better to say it after the race in Bahrain so the teams had a couple of weeks to change their cars ready for Europe. Pirelli must have known Catalunya would be like that, they saw what deg was like at other tracks and then you're heading to a track like Spain.
- 5,379
- Yokohama
- F1fan1
Don't be ridiculous. And another thing, Vettel has won two races this season and is already leading the championship so that blows your complaint right out the window.
- 3,164
- AMSTERDAM
- spyrrari
You should just realy be banned for saying this...
You are either incredibly stupid or have no idea what this disease is....either way,to wish for some one to get this is below any level!!!
👎👎👎👎👎
Spy.
- 2,998
- England
- Peasantslayer
After this race I felt Alonso was the championship favourite because he's had 2 bad races this year and in the others he's had 2 wins and a 2nd. With the tyres changing who knows? Apparently Mercedes have some clever fuel tank in the works that will give them better COG and better aerodynamics so their race pace could significantly improve, unless Webber starts stringing weekends together then I imagine Red Bull will focus more on Vettel who as some have said leads the championship even though the car isn't as kind on the tyres as some competitors.
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Have not heard this anywhere, extremely interested in seeing a source for that.
- 13,827
- Down under
It's funny; when Ferrari was the dominant team in F1 and a significant rule change was made well into the season, everybody would cry foul over how the FIA was favouring them and it was all stacked in their favour.
Now RBR are doing the same; something doesn't suit them, have a whinge, get it changed.
F1. It all stays the same, its just the players that change.
Now RBR are doing the same; something doesn't suit them, have a whinge, get it changed.
F1. It all stays the same, its just the players that change.
- 60
- Pompeli
Interesting and quite shocking at the same time.
Well, we shall see the outcome in the end. Formula 1 has always been fighting also outside of the circuit.
But if this change end up flipping winning teams and loosing teams other way around and perhaps the winning of the team / drivers championship. It it quite laughable. But these are only ifs... yet.
I don't still understand whats the issue with the current tires are all about. Everyone has the same.
But I'd like to see that the tires will change and same team still gets their arses kicked. Then we'll see who is who.
Well, we shall see the outcome in the end. Formula 1 has always been fighting also outside of the circuit.
But if this change end up flipping winning teams and loosing teams other way around and perhaps the winning of the team / drivers championship. It it quite laughable. But these are only ifs... yet.
I don't still understand whats the issue with the current tires are all about. Everyone has the same.
But I'd like to see that the tires will change and same team still gets their arses kicked. Then we'll see who is who.
- 2,998
- England
- Peasantslayer
It's came up on f1technical a few times throughout the year, someone said they had read a magazine recently, it was meant to be in the car for Catalunya. I saw an article earlier in the year about it but unfortunately I can't seem to find it. The best I can give you is this on f1technical, top post.
- 19,688
- Alabamamania
Dr. P
Neither can I, but as a fan of the sport for many years, sometimes the time between races is win by who can complain the loudest while holding all the best cards.
The tires are more or less equal, but the cars are not. And that's the way it should be, since it is not a genuine safety issue (tire failures not caused by punctures are quite rare), and we are not in a "tire war".
Perhaps Pirelli is more concerned with their image as a purveyor of road car tires, which is a valid concern, despite a public that can easily separate the near-fantasy of motorsport from road-going automobiles.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
JGreens
(Banned)
- 478
- Warwickshire
- Interstella101
Amen. I'm hoping Lotus & Ferrari team up and bring in the best legal team to wipe the floor with RBR and force jail for Blondie, Horner & Mateschitz. Oh and restore the records to the rightful champions, too. 👍
Are you mad? RBR supporting Webbo?
It's all about blondie, webbo's already been told to _ _ _ _ O F F at the end of the season. That's a certainty.
I've said it time and time and time again - Austria '02. Never forget.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
What does that have to do with tyres? What does the FIA have to do with Pirelli changing their tyres? What does the FIA have to do with Austria 2002?
What about Austria 2001?
Surely you should be saying "Indy 2005. Never forget"??
To be honest, I haven't really enjoyed the races so far this year (or last year to an extent). I mainly blame DRS for making passing so inevitable but the tyres are pretty ridiculous lately too. While I wouldn't want to see F1 return to the processional races, I would like to see the cars given a relatively open rule book again or at least a major aerodynamic rule change.
Indycar had a major overhaul of their aerodynamics and its done them wonders. While their cars look pretty silly, the racing has been fantastic and I far prefer their push-to-pass system over KERS, DRS and crappy tyres.
However, I don't think changing the tyres mid-season is a great idea as it only opens the sport to arguments between teams and fans either being fair or unfair to particular teams/drivers. If Pirelli want to change their tyres, change them for next season.
I'm a bit bored with seeing people moaning about it being the end of the world though and saying Vettel/Red Bull are going to win everything and/or they are being favoured.
Pirelli's new tyres could be massively beneficial to McLaren or Williams say and they win the races for the rest of the season. They could benefit anyone really, the only potential losers are going to be Ferrari and Lotus as they're currently doing the best with these current tyres - but that doesn't mean they won't also do well with harder or more durable compounds, they just have the most to lose.
I find myself barely discussing F1 at all these days, I think I've finally moved on from it and I'm more interested in sports cars and touring cars. For me it says it all when the WEC has been more entertaining to watch and easier to follow with strategy.
- 10,837
- Belgium
- bramturismo
The problem is that only 2 teams have done their homework on the tires and adjusting their cars to it; Lotus and Ferrari.
Red Bull are so obsessed with having Newey design the most aero-advanced car to show off with their downforce levels, and then seem to completely forget how those high levels of downforce impact tyre wear. But it's alright, they've won 3 constructor titles so if they make enough noise, they will surely be able to get what they want from Pirelli.
I also liked that post somewhere on the last page where someone showed the cars are still running faster laps than in previous years, despite the tyre wear. I guess some drivers always will want to blame someone for their lack of having the ability to adjust to certain situations.
It's sad Pirelli gave in in the end.
- 3,019
- Essex
If I had my own way I'd have a tyre made that had a decent level of grip, that last for the whole race. Just get rid of the tyre variable completely. I'm more interested in racing than pit strategy.
- 675
- Leeds, W. Yorks
- TopGearFTW
They may as well make the sport a spec series at this rate. It's always the same. One team gets an edge, and every other time whines about it -- whilst trying to develop the same thing themselves, don't forget -- until it gets banned, or they perfect their own.
Yes, I am disappointed that Mercedes can't manage their tyres, and McLaren designed a couple of wheelbarrows this year, but I was hardly gonna begrudge Ferrari or Lotus the title if it went that way, they designed the best car and that's that.
What a shambles.
Yes, I am disappointed that Mercedes can't manage their tyres, and McLaren designed a couple of wheelbarrows this year, but I was hardly gonna begrudge Ferrari or Lotus the title if it went that way, they designed the best car and that's that.
What a shambles.
