How do you feel about FM's marketing?

How do you feel about the way the FM devs are talking about the game?

  • It annoys my a lot and it will affect whether or not I will purchase FM3

    Votes: 9 17.0%

  • It annoys me a lot, and affects how I view the game, but it wont affect my purchasing FM3 when it co

    Votes: 19 35.8%

  • I dont like their style, but it doesn't bother me and I'll still buy the game and not care when play

    Votes: 9 17.0%

  • It doesn't bother me either way, Dan Greenwalt can market the game however they want

    Votes: 13 24.5%

  • I like their style, but its not going to affect my purchase or experience of the game

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • I like their style, their marketing is positively affecting my view of FM3

    Votes: 2 3.8%
  • Total voters
    53
W

WolfRacer543

818
G'day,

I figured this would be a worthwhile poll to have and hopefully keep the main FM3 thread less congested so we can use that thread to actually talk about the game as opposed to how its devs talk about the game. Polls are good and help see whether or not everyone feels a certain way, or whether its just the vocal people.

So, what's your opinion on how Dan Greenwalt are pushing Forza 3 since E3?

EDIT: Also feel free to discuss the matter. :)



P.S. I hope this poll works, its my first attempt at one. :scared:
 
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Well advertising is important step. Untill now they've done good job, I think. Well the goal of advertising is that infos reach the potential-consumers. The goal is reached IMO.

In otherhand I hope that PD has a good advertising strategy, if not they'll lose a lot of potential-consumers on market.

Now FM3 has advantage. PD, hurry up!
 
It annoys me a little, but I'll still be getting the game. Unless they say FM3 is the best thing since Hitler, the marketing won't affect my enjoyment of the game.
 
It doesn't bother me one way or another, if that's how they feel they need to market then so be it. It's not like most other companies out there don't do the same exact thing. The consumer is going to be the real deciding factor anyways if the game is good or not. If the game ends up being all hype and no substance then Turn 10 will have failed and Forza won't be successful. If it annoys you that much don't read Forza news.

I think the only people who have a problem with it are the small minority of the super uber fanboys that populate this bored, because if you hate a game just based on it's marketing, without actually playing the game, there is really no other way to describe you other than a fanboy.
 
Joey D, I think you are missing the point. Their tactics reveal the ideals behind the game. The game will be awesome, no doubt about it, but awesomeness born from the disrespect to others. I won't say anymore though, I talked about it enough.
 
H3avyM3tal
Joey D, I think you are missing the point. Their tactics reveal the ideals behind the game. The game will be awesome, no doubt about it, but awesomeness born from the disrespect to others. I won't say anymore though, I talked about it enough.
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Their tactics reveal nothing more than they have a loud mouth PR man. That reflects nothing on how the game actually is, the consumer will decide if the game is good or bad by either buying it or not. If the marketing offends you, and I have no idea why it would unless of course you are an enormous GT fanboy, then don't buy FM3. All you really are doing though is missing out on a game that E3 reviews is calling rather promising.

What I really find funny though is that when forum members to go on to compare FM3 to GT5 and claim GT5 as superior because the marketing isn't as brash or done by a loud mouth...that really shows fanboy colours.
 
I have never once said that GT5 will be better than F3 in the gameplay department. And I have never once said that F3 sucks in that department. In fact, I have done the opposite.

What I find funny though, is that you are still missing my point, and with your very 'mature' attitude you try to hide YOUR true colors. I won't call you a fanboy though, because I don't have all the facts and I would rather not form a whole (read as fact) opinion on a person.
 
H3avyM3tal
I have never once said that GT5 will be better than F3 in the gameplay department. And I have never once said that F3 sucks in that department. In fact, I have done the opposite.
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I mentioned your name where? Where did I say you were going around saying GT is superior because of Turn 10's loud mouth marketing? I'm speaking in general.

H3avyM3tal
What I find funny though, is that you are still missing my point, and with your very 'mature' attitude you try to hide YOUR true colors. I won't call you a fanboy though, because I don't have all the facts and I would rather not form a whole (read as fact) opinion on a person.
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And my true colours are what exactly? If you want to know something, just ask. I'm not here to hide anything. The only colour I'm attempting to show is that I think it's lame that a group of people here are trying to find fault in Forza over a marketing thing. Do you hate BMW or Audi for doing the same thing?

Yes I like Forza and yes I like GT (if I didn't why would I be on a GT forum?). I am disappointed with the turn GT has taken over the year and I don't think it is as good as people make it out to be, but it is still a very good game never-the-less. I have also said numerous times that both GT and Forza are excellent games and both have their strengths and weaknesses. I consider myself to be a fan of both games, but a fanboy of neither...the only game I'm a fanboy about is Diablo II and possibly Mass Effect.
 
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Dan Greenwalt's marketing methods do annoy me, but it doesn't affect whether I'm going to buy FM3 or not.

Joey D
Their tactics reveal nothing more than they have a loud mouth PR man. That reflects nothing on how the game actually is, the consumer will decide if the game is good or bad by either buying it or not.
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This is exactly what I think. 👍
 
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Dan Greenwalt is a hell of an annoying guy. Except that I think that they're doing better marketing than PD. You know they give SOLID INFO about their game. The Key words are SOLID INFO, take notes PD.:D
 
I love how you act like PD & Kaz don't do the same thing. They do though, it's just more subtle.

"We don't pay attention to other racing games" is a line I believe Kaz said. That is pretty much saying, the other games aren't important enough to get out attention. In other words, our game is better than theirs.

I like both game series' (I'm re-playing GT3 right now), but you can't act like they are the only company doing it.
 
It seems that more people are voting more than posting, but I voted "It annoys me a lot, and affects how I view the game, but it wont affect my purchasing FM3 when it comes out"

Their attitude does rub me the wrong way, but I have already purchased it [pre order] and buying the Fanatec just so I can play it ALONG with GT5, both of these are going to be very good racers and there is no way you can just choose one.


Justin
I love how you act like PD & Kaz don't do the same thing. They do though, it's just more subtle.

"We don't pay attention to other racing games" is a line I believe Kaz said. That is pretty much saying, the other games aren't important enough to get out attention. In other words, our game is better than theirs.

I like both game series' (I'm re-playing GT3 right now), but you can't act like they are the only company doing it.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this because you are lumping PD's stance on not paying attention to other racing games and putting it in the same context asTurn 10's press statements of outright lies and innuendos and saying they are guilty of the same when in fact PD and KY haven't made any statements or comparisons to any Forza game or other competing racers.
 
So Turn 10 "lied" how, again? It certainly is boastful talk, there is no argument from me there, but getting your panties in a bunch over whether or not they had the racing line first, or whether or not they've moved racing games further forward than GT is absolutely irrelevant. In the grand scheme of things, it is a penis waving contest once again. I think Dan and Turn 10 could turn it down a notch, but at the same time, it would be great if Polyphony and the like would stop being so smug about their success, and give us some legitimate reasons why they should remain the sole "great" driving title available.
 
Like I said in the other thread I don't mind lying (hell look at the industry, it's part of the game), but I get annoyed with flat out BS in respect to the market and your games abilities.

Push that you're an innovator in online console racing and custom designs, but don't go around spouting that F3 will be the most realistic looking game and be the hardest of hardcore since yours is the only game that models tyre physics. It isn't, and it just adds to the embarrasment.

Maybe it's because racing games are my favourite genre I'm being overly critical of Greenawalt, but I can't think of any interviews I've read or watched over the years of following videogames that supercede his for arrogance and nonsense.

That being said, I could understand how some people could get annoyed with PD's typically Japanese approach to PR whereas it doesn't phase me as much. Probably from all those years as a European customer waiting for Squaresoft news....
 
Turn 10's marketing strategy bemuses me somewhat. They arn't the first company to over market thier product and I'm sure they won't be the last but they are stretching facts and in some cases blatantly lieing which they shouldn't be allowed to do. Although I don't like this, I will still be judging the game by how good the game is and not how it is marketed, but what amuses me is just what are Turn 10 trying to acomplish by being so agressive with thier marketing. A browse of various forums will reveal that they arn't attracting any non-Forza fans to he game this way. Forza already has a decent fan base, most of thoes fans will be picking up Forza 3 regardless, so why didn't Turn 10 think about things a bit and try to work out how they might be able to expand that fan base, ideally they would be getting Gran Turismo fans (ie fans of thier biggest rival game that happens to be on thier biggest rival platform) intereted in buying. As it stands all this aressiveness they've displaying at the moment has made the gulf between hardcore GT fans and hardcore Forza fans bigger. Both from a respectful perspective and a business perpective thier marketing approach stinks really.
 
Well I was a non-Forza fan (only like GT and only had a PS3) and I got a 360 for FM3. FM2 was meh. But FM3 looks to be a huge improvement. The sad part is I did not need some guy to tell me that.
 
Dave A
Although I don't like this, I will still be judging the game by how good the game is and not how it is marketed, but what amuses me is just what are Turn 10 trying to acomplish by being so agressive with thier marketing.
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Why does the big German three do the same thing? You've seen the ads from Audi, Mercedes and BMW. What are they attempting to gain? Same thing goes for Coke and Pepsi, all mobile phone carriers, any infomercial on TV, etc. Turn 10 is not really doing anything all that different from a lot of other companies out there.

===

I'm also wondering, those who are that put off by Turn 10's marketing that they aren't even going to buy the game...were you even planning on buying it in the first place?
 
Joey D
Why does the big German three do the same thing? You've seen the ads from Audi, Mercedes and BMW. What are they attempting to gain? Same thing goes for Coke and Pepsi, all mobile phone carriers, any infomercial on TV, etc. Turn 10 is not really doing anything all that different from a lot of other companies out there.
Click to expand...
Not really, thoes car ads don't contain lies, at the same time they are usually very well thought out. It's quite evident that all this marketing Turn 10 is doing is alienating the non-Forza fans even more as opposed to drawing them in which is what Turn 10 should be trying to achieve. That doesn't mean they can't compare products, they can't promote thiers as being better etc but there's a line and it's not blurred. You don't call any creator let alone a respected one of a rival product the "naked emporer". It's not that Dan is doing things dramatically new that no one else has done and it's not like they are the only ones doing what they are doing, but they are going way over the top and it isn't cool be it Turn 10 or whoever else and in this instance at least it isn't drawing new people in. So why they are using this tactic is beyond me.
 
Dave A
Not really, thoes car ads don't contain lies, at the same time they are usually very well thought out. It's quite evident that all this marketing Turn 10 is doing is alienating the non-Forza fans even more as opposed to drawing them in which is what Turn 10 should be trying to achieve. That doesn't mean they can't compare products, they can't promote thiers as being better etc but there's a line and it's not blurred. You don't call any creator let alone a respected one of a rival product the "naked emporer". It's not that Dan is doing things dramatically new that no one else has done and it's not like they are the only ones doing what they are doing, but they are going way over the top and it isn't cool be it Turn 10 or whoever else and in this instance at least it isn't drawing new people in. So why they are using this tactic is beyond me.
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Most ads contain lies or at least skewed truths. I highly doubt every mobile phone company has the best network and every car company has either the best selling car or has the car of the year. And lets not even get into the slide of hand and crafty editing of infomercials, I know there has been a lot of criticisms on the net over Sham Wows.

Read the consumerist.com web blog and you'll see that what Turn 10 is doing is nothing new nor is it really all that bad when compared to what other companies do.
 
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Joey D
Most ads contain lies or at least skewed truths. I highly doubt every mobile phone company has the best network and every car company has either the best selling car or has the car of the year. And lets not even get into the slide of hand and crafty editing of infomercials, I know there has been a lot of criticisms on the net over Sham Wows.

Read the consumerist.com web blog and you'll see that what Turn 10 is doing is nothing new nor is is really all that bad when compared to what other companies do.
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I clearly said that I knew what Turn 10 was doing was nothing new. As for lies, companies geenrally don't blatantly lie. They do bend the truth or use grey areas but some of the comments Turn 10 have made are blatant lies such as PD copying the course guide line in the road (GT has had it since GT1) and being the first racing game to simulate tyre deformation (once again other games have done it for years including console games like Richard Burns Rally) there's no grey area in these statments. for example, car companies can only advertise having a car of the year award if they have one, it doesn't matter which car of the year awards though and I'm sure you know that there are thousands including car of the year awards handed out by magazine publications and tv shows. There's probably over 500 different car of the year awards in the UK alone. If a car manufacturer has a car that has won the Netto small car of the year award then they can advertise their car as a car of the year winner, if it hasn't been given any car of the year award at all and they advertise that it has then they can go to court.

To clarify my personal position on this, I am not saying Turn 10 are the worst culprits around or that I only dislike Turn 10's use of this approach. I disslike this overly agressive approach altogether. The besmusment part comes fromo the fact that despite my opinion of the approach there are times when I can see a benefit being had from it, but Turn 10 are clearly not benefitting and yet they are still sticking to this approach and it's blatantly obvious that they are hurting thier chances of getting non-Froza fans interested and making the anti-Forza guys even more anti-Forza instead of getting them interested in the game in a positive way.
 
Dave A
I clearly said that I knew what Turn 10 was doing was nothing new. As for lies, companies geenrally don't blatantly lie. They do bend the truth or use grey areas but some of the comments Turn 10 have made are blatant lies such as PD copying the course guide line in the road (GT has had it since GT1) and being the first racing game to simulate tyre deformation (once again other games have done it for years including console games like Richard Burns Rally) there's no grey area in these statments. for example, car companies can only advertise having a car of the year award if they have one, it doesn't matter which car of the year awards though and I'm sure you know that there are thousands including car of the year awards handed out by magazine publications and tv shows. There's probably over 500 different car of the year awards in the UK alone. If a car manufacturer has a car that has won the Netto small car of the year award then they can advertise their car as a car of the year winner, if it hasn't been given any car of the year award at all and they advertise that it has then they can go to court.
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You are really making it seem like you are taking the "how dare they" approach to all of this, which is why I said it's nothing new. And yes companies do generally lie, if it's not truthful then it's a lie.

I'm sure there is an asterisk associated with all the statement's they been throwing around in one way or another. Such as first console racer to have X, first next generation game to have X, etc. You said it yourself with the car example, they could have won some small arbitrary car of the year award and they'll still tout it like they won the best car ever made award.

Dave A
To clarify my personal position on this, I am not saying Turn 10 are the worst culprits around or that I only dislike Turn 10's use of this approach. I disslike this overly agressive approach altogether. The besmusment part comes fromo the fact that despite my opinion of the approach there are times when I can see a benefit being had from it, but Turn 10 are clearly not benefitting and yet they are still sticking to this approach and it's blatantly obvious that they are hurting thier chances of getting non-Froza fans interested and making the anti-Forza guys even more anti-Forza instead of getting them interested in the game in a positive way.
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I think Turn 10 could be perfect saints about this whole thing and people on GTP would still hate them and Forza 3 because it's not GT. Based on other forums I visit most of the member aren't even paying attention to what Dan Greenwalt is saying and if they are the only comments being put forth are "That Dan guy is an loud mouth, oh well, Forza 3 is going to be awesome!" This really is the only place I've seen so far where so many people cared, which really concerns me because I didn't think we had that many fanboys on this forum.
 
Justin
"We don't pay attention to other racing games"
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the other games aren't important enough to get out attention. In other words, our game is better than theirs.
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These two statements are not necessarily the same.

I can say at this very moment that I do not pay attention to competing products to what my department produces. I am not saying my competitors aren't important enough to get my attention or that I think my product is better than theirs. It means that I know my product well enough to manage my department in a way to create a competitive product without taking notes from the competition.

I have seen a competitor's product once, and that was when we were reworking our pricing structure, which was based on a different formula than our competitor's, and I had to work out a way to determine if our new price range would still remain competitive. I did not change a single step in our production process, or even consider it.


That doesn't mean that your interpretation is wrong, but you are making an assumption to say that is what he definitely meant. For all we know it was just a response to avoid being goaded into talking negatively about a competitor, which would be disrespectful and/or risks creating a negative atmosphere with Turn 10 team members who could later be working at Polyphony Digital. It could also have been a way to avoid actually mentioning a competitor's name when trying to promote your own product. Heck, it could simply be that the guy practically lives in the office and hasn't had time to play other racing games. There are a million reasons he could have said that, and considering Kazunori Yamauchi does not have a habit of trash talking and bragging, I doubt this was his passive aggressive way of brushing off his competitors as unimportant.

My guess: Since he first began working on Gran Turismo, Kazunori Yamauchi has had a vision of what he wants the game to be. As long as Sony allows him to continue chasing his vision then he does not have a reason to factor the competition into that vision. Sure, PD can look at it, like they reportedly did at E3, and see if there is a different approach to achieving those goals, but creating a product based on a personal vision does not require taking notes from others.


As to the main question posed: I don't really like the attitude that has been taken, but that has little bearing on how the actual game comes out. Until I play it myself I will not judge Forza 3.
 
I thought DG looked familiar. The way he talked and all and when I saw this picture I noticed where I seen him before.

DanTheMan.jpg


Just some fun it´s so fitting. The real line is of course This is Sparta and he kicks a guy into a dwell ;)
 
FoolKiller
My guess: Since he first began working on Gran Turismo, Kazunori Yamauchi has had a vision of what he wants the game to be. As long as Sony allows him to continue chasing his vision then he does not have a reason to factor the competition into that vision. Sure, PD can look at it, like they reportedly did at E3, and see if there is a different approach to achieving those goals, but creating a product based on a personal vision does not require taking notes from others.
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Which Kazunori's latest (month old but just released) interview in the PS Blog confirms when asked about the competition shown at E3

"And as long as we actually achieve our goals and fulfill our expectations, I’m sure it would set the new industry standard.”
 
FoolKiller
These two statements are not necessarily the same.

I can say at this very moment that I do not pay attention to competing products to what my department produces. I am not saying my competitors aren't important enough to get my attention or that I think my product is better than theirs. It means that I know my product well enough to manage my department in a way to create a competitive product without taking notes from the competition.

I have seen a competitor's product once, and that was when we were reworking our pricing structure, which was based on a different formula than our competitor's, and I had to work out a way to determine if our new price range would still remain competitive. I did not change a single step in our production process, or even consider it.
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The only thing though is are you in a decision making position? I don't pay attention to my stores competition, but I know that the people who make the major decisions do.

Words mean different things if you are in power.
 
Justin
The only thing though is are you in a decision making position? I don't pay attention to my stores competition, but I know that the people who make the major decisions do.

Words mean different things if you are in power.
Click to expand...

Well, he's the manager
 
Which isn't a decision making role that I'm speaking of. What I'm referring to are the people that decide prices of items and decide what markets are good for business, basically the people that wear a suit and tie. Now if these people payed no attention to the competition to they would be out of business by now.

Managers only make small decisions that only affect their store.
 
It must be a hell working in turn 10 at this time. Big fat and ugly microsoft it breathing constantly to neck there are jobs at the line with this game. Turn 10 won't ever have enough time to make the game they wanted. For outsider it seems things are a bit different in PD but you never really know. I do not like turn 10's arrogant advertising of the game but i would do the same if i had a knife on my throat. One thing that especially cought my eyes hand ears was constant saying that game is 60 fps but everybody found out that cockpit view currently is not 60 but 30.(hope they can fix this)
 

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