Continental Tire Challenge Series Information

S

SuperShouden

(Banned)
7,542
SuperShouden
This the how we shall run the CTC here on GTP.

The Cars (with penalties)

GS:
2003 Audi S4 (339bhp, 1610kg)
2004 BMW M3 (302bhp, 1664kg)
2000 Chevy Camaro (319bhp, 1544kg)
2005 Ford Mustang (300bhp, 1552kg)
2003 Nissan 350Z (253bhp, 1452kg)
2004 Pontiac GTO (327bhp, 1690kg])

ST:
2000 Audi TT 3.2 (215bhp, 1596kg)
2003 Dodge SRT4 (201bhp, 1485kg)
2004 Honda Civic Type R (208bhp, 1274kg)
2003 Mazda Mazda6 5-door (185bhp, 1306kg)
2002 Mini Cooper S (160hp, 1008kg)
2005 Volkswagen Golf V GTi (200bhp, 1362kg)


Races will be between 50 and 100 miles, with an extend 150mile race at LeMans

Tracks:
1. Autumn Ring (50miles - 27laps)
2. Twin Ring Motegi East Short Course (50miles - 23laps)
3. Infineon Sports Car Course (100miles - 40laps)
4. Fuji Speedway 2005 GT (100miles - 36laps)
5. Deep Forest (100miles - 47laps)
6. Laguna Seca (50miles - 22laps)
7. Trial Mountain (100miles - 40laps)
8. Opera Paris (50miles - 28laps)
9. Circuit de la Sarthe I (with chicanes) (150miles - 17laps)
10. Grand Valley (100miles - 33laps)

Results will be calculated by total time and fastest lap time (and number of laps completed if timed)

It will run similar to the LMS series with a qualifying week prior to the race week.

Everything will be run in Arcade Mode.
 
Last edited:
hmmm...Looks like the Mustang and GTO need some slight adjustments. The Nissan...I'm not entirely sure what to do with.

Also, I've noticed that some of the tracks are a lot harsher on tires than others. I mean, on Autumn Ring, you can drive forever on soft tires, where as, on a track like Apricot Hill, tires wear out a lot faster.

I think my next round of testing will be to check laps times on all ten tracks to see how if there's any adjustments I need. Maybe that will also give me an idea of what to do with that pesky Nissan.
 
This sounds interesting.
What're the rules?
Do we pick a car from either group and stick with it for the season, or can we drive a different car for every race?
 
Smallhorses
This sounds interesting.
What're the rules?
Do we pick a car from either group and stick with it for the season, or can we drive a different car for every race?
Click to expand...

So far I'm picking the Mustang from GS class, and something from the Street Tuners, too, although I haven't determined which car yet. I'm going to stick to each car I've picked thru the entire 'season'.

SS has said the rules will be similar to the latest round of the LeMans series here in Long Term racing; in effect, it's an Arcade-disc race against other cars, right SS? There will be a qualifying round before racing commences. We can choose whatever normal or sport tires we please, as well as driving aids (tho I won't mess with the aids personally).
 
Smallhorses
This sounds interesting.
What're the rules?
Do we pick a car from either group and stick with it for the season, or can we drive a different car for every race?
Click to expand...

Everyone will pick a car from either group or one car from each, and stick with it for the entire season. I'll get more of the rules in place soon. But, as PB mentioned, there will be aids allowed but only TCS.
 
In which case, I definitely want the 2004 Mazda Miata MX-5 for the ST class, however, there's 2 to choose from:

Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800RS ('04)
Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A ('04)

I'm assuming the 1800RS, right? :confused:

True to my username, I'll take the low-powered Nissan 350Z in the GS class. ;)
 
yeah, it is the 1800RS Miata. Also, the 350Z might get a slight power increase...we'll see. I have to do more testing with it.
 
Hey I'm noticing there are some different settings in Arcade. Should we have tire wear set at mild or strong for instance, for the qualfying round as well as the race? And should the races be made to full difficulty?

Like I said I'm not an Arcade disc user at all, this stuff is new to me.


Smallhorses
True to my username, I'll take the low-powered Nissan 350Z in the GS class. ;)
Click to expand...

So your name does have a meaning behind it. Kinda had a hunch awhile back.
 
Parnelli Bone
..... Should we have tire wear set at mild or strong for instance, for the qualfying round as well as the race? And should the races be made to full difficulty?.....
Click to expand...

I would expect that SuperShouden will have us use "strong" as the tire wear setting during the races. This brings tire-management into the races, so it is quite worthwhile. Having both the AI cars tires wear out and our tires wear out helps make the races interesting.

The only track that I don't like this for is Motegi East. I just have no clue about how to enter the pits with any speed without smacking the wall.:dunce:

I don't think that SuperShouden has decided on the difficulty setting yet. He could leave it up to each driver, and then we individually have to decide whether we want stiff competition or if we want a cake-walk. Or he could mandate a specific level to try to equalize everyones grids. This setting can make a difference in lap times. Sometimes you actually get a drafting partner down a long straight, while other times you get a rolling road-block going thru the corners.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
I tested the Camaro at Autumn Ring the other day and it got about 17 laps on hard tires...on a 20 lap race. With sports tires, in a 47 lap race, you should be pitting 2-3 times, I would guess, depending on the car and track. That means with the first race, you'll be pitting once, most likely.

I tried it on a difficulty setting of +5. seemed fine save the M3 that kinda took off, anyways. I'll do some more testing this week.
 
hopefully by this coming weekend (May 8th or 9th...8th perferable) everything will be finalized. There's just some minor tweeks to some of the cars that need done and I need to make sure they're pretty even on at least most of the tracks so we don't get one dominating the others. I think I've pretty much got the rest of the rules set, so, I'll have a major update coming, soon. I think will do a nice, short-pre-season race just to see where everyone is and how satisfied with their car they are.
 
^That sounds good, the pre-race idea.

So it's looking like a +5 race with strong tire wear? Yea, I don't want a cakewalk either...I do my best driving under pressure. 👍


UPDATE. So to those of you who don't know, all my Gran Turismo stuff is done by different virtual drivers. I have about 20 virtual drivers who race & drive different cars in GT4 for instance. They're based on real-life stereotypes, mostly, and to 'flesh them out', I actually used to write little stories (back in my GT/GT2 days, not so much now) about them. I know this sounds nerdy, but these drivers help me get into my game a bit more. I can't just get into any car at any time, I actually have a system to see which driver goes next. :nerd::lol:

So Dirk "Meth Hed" Bryant is driving the Mustang GT. He's a former drug addict who's become drug-free. In short, the rush he gets from racing is now his "drug". :rolleyes: American...all about V8 power, typical greasy redneck guy, basically.

To determine who'd race in ST class, I did a dice roll with one of my D&D 10-sided dice, and then further used a 6-sided die to further narrow it down.

ST Class will be driven by Princess Wellington, a teen girl who's had a silver spoon in her mouth from birth. Bit of a brat. Typical teen girl, basically (OMG!) And her car? the Mini Cooper S

....that's right, she's "the girl in the Mini!" Lol.

This should be uh...interesting... :scared:
 
Last edited:
Hmmm, so wait here. The Miata gets a better power-to-weight ratio than the MINI, even though the MINI has extra tire wear (being a FWD) and probably will need an extra pit stop? Granted, in real-life there'd be some sort of way to equalize this discrephancy.

For instance, I just did the first race (27 laps at Autumn Ring). Tires were of hard sport grade, and tire wear was set on Strong. Needed two pit stops. I'm doubting the Miata will need more than one, even on soft tires.

I'll try a mock-race with the Miata tomorrow...see if it's competitive or not...but I don't wanna race the Miata. I just want the ST class to be even so far as FWD and RWDs are concerned.
 
Last edited:
adjustments have been made to the Mustang and Pontiac in GS and the Audi, BMW and Honda in ST. Testing still has to be done to see what to do with the Nissan.

PB - I assure you, the tire wear on the Mini isn't going to be worse than the Miata's. The little Miata is REALLY loose and loves to drift, which will wear tires down faster than a lot of understeer will.

And I've chosen my cars. I'll be taking the GTO, because it's awesome looking and sounds just as good, and the Audi TT in ST, because I LOVE the sound of it's V8. the TT and the Golf have the best engine sounds in the ST class with the Mustang, GTO and Camaro having the best in GS.
 
SuperShouden
PB - I assure you, the tire wear on the Mini isn't going to be worse than the Miata's. The little Miata is REALLY loose and loves to drift, which will wear tires down faster than a lot of understeer will.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that's weird. Maybe Arcade disc has some different algorhythms happening or something.

I'll take your word for it, though. I'll still do a mock race with it. Wanna see if everything checks out. 👍
 
So I just finished a couple mock races around Autumn Ring, and ya ea dude, the MINI's gotta have some sort of bonus. I'd prefer less weight instead of more power. Check it out.

Granted, I didn't do an entire 27 laps with the Miata, I just drove long enough that I'd need a pit stop.

Soft tires = about 8 or 9 almost-full laps before truely needing a pit. Was @2 to 3 seconds faster than the MINI

Hard tires = over 14 laps...I'm guessing in the neighborhood of 18 or 19 laps before needing a pit. Was @1-2 seconds faster than the MINI per lap.

Therefore the MINI (as it is now) would be uncompetitive because I was only able to manage 9 laps on SHard tires and the lap times were not comparable. :( If I used TCS, this could be extended to 11 laps. Still would need 2 pit stops, wheras the Miata would only need one.

If both cars (Miata and MINI) are driven in a straight line as they are now, they'd be going about the same speed. The problem is at a track with lots of curves, the MINI is slower and needs more pit stops. Easily.

There's a couple solutions to this.

1). The MINI (and other front drives) could run Mild tire wear, while the Miata (and possibly other RWDs) would run Strong. I would actually prefer NOT to do this, but it would at least make it so that each car (FWD and RWD) would get the same amount of pit stops per race in the ST class.

2). Minimize the MINI's weight fully to 1,008 kg. I tried doing this with TCS on, and could now match the Miata's lap times on hard tires. Granted, any FWD (including the MINI) would still need an extra pit stop at Autumn Ring, therefore the Miata would be guaranteed to win here; however, it may have stiffer competition at other tracks with longer straights.


Just a couple ideas. If neither of them flies with you, Super Shoulden (or anyone else) I'll have no choice but to withdraw the MINI because it would be an automatic loser against the RWD Miata and possibly the BMW as well. I could use a heavier FWD, or possibly the BMW..

...but I really wanna drive the MINI ;) so let's hear some opinions.
 
dude, that Mini handles it's corners pretty well. You should compare it to the Miata on Opera Paris or Infineon. I mean look at how well it's doing in the real CTC. I came in third in one of the races this year and was doing excellent at VIR until both cars got taken out. Trust me, the reduction in weight is fine. If I were to give it any more HP, it would dominate the other cars. If you look at the actual rules, I believe the Mini actually has a weight penalty on it. Don't count that little Mini out. It's been pretty consistently equally close to the other cars. If I had to choose between the Miata and the Mini, it would be the Mini everytime.
 
I haven't tested the cars, but please listen to Parnelli. When you're trying to make cars equal, the focus cannot be on what should be, but rather on what is. It makes no sense to say, "trust me on this; I even gave it a weight penalty already" when results from actual testing quite clearly contradict your assertion that the cars perform equally. It doesn't matter that the real Mini does well, or that it feels pretty nice around corners. The fact is that front-wheel drive cars in GT4 are slower around corners and eat tires, and this Mini is obviously no exception.
 
I know they're doing well in real-life, but Gran Turismo is not real-life! 💡 Tire wear in comparison from front-drive to rear-drive is out of control at a track like Autumn Ring. I imagine the Miata would also trounce the MINI at Paris as well, not necessarily because it's faster, but because it doesn't require as many pit stops.

LIke I said, I just drove the MINI and the Miata around Autumn Ring. The MINI requires two pit stops, the Miata just one (with hard tires) or two (with soft). Either way, the Miata will still dominate at the more technical tracks. Its lap times are easier to accomplish, which means it's easier to keep them low. In the MINI, I could make similar lap times to the Miata IF I had less weight, but it was a heck of alot more work. And I'd still have to make that extra pit stop.

So yea, I would appreciate a weight reduction for the MINI. I'm not asking for more power...just less weight. 💡

The Miata (possibly the Beemer) will still have a bigger advantage at corner-heavy tracks no matter what, simply because Gran Turismo's tire dynamics are wack, and rear-drives don't suffer nearly the same amount of tire wear as front drives, proportionally.
 
Last edited:
On the other hand, GS is looking like it's gonna be sweet, and there shouldn't be a need for massive tweaks I would imagine, since all the cars (except the Audi) are rear-drive. Power-to-weights are similar enough, too. 👍

The Camaro's power seems a little highish, but it's also perhaps the worst car at cornering, so that seems like it'll work in the long run.
 
Yeah, I just ran GS at Motegi East, and the Camaro was the fastest. But, it wasn't that much faster. And, at Autumn Ring, it was a bit more even with the other cars and Opera is was even. So, yeah, in the fast parts, the Camaro pulls away, and on the corners it slows down quite a bit. And, yeah, the Audis are gonna have to pit a bit more often with their AWD layout...prehaps GT5 will be better...and have more correct cars. If I can get a PS3 by then, Season 2 of the CTC will probably be in GT5. or I'll be doing two or three of them. (1 in GT4, 1 in GT5 and a Forza 3 one with paintjobs and stuffs.)
 
Greetings all Continental Tire fans -

I have taken all six ST Class cars to the Autumn Ring for 26 laps, and my findings were that the two RWD cars are the class of the field, and that the Mini Cooper was the slowest:(, just as Parnelli says. The Autumn Ring just exaggerates the FWD car's tire wear, so it is very apparent even if all the car's speeds are similar.

Trying to balance these six different cars it tough. I've sent SuperShouden some of my own results with these cars, but I'm not sure if its a help or if it just makes it harder to settle what the settings should be.

I like Parnelli Bone's idea of having the FWD cars run with mild tire wear in an effort to balance the cars pit stops:tup: Does anyone know if this has been done during a series? Did it skew the series in another un-intended direction?

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Well, I've actually just finished some testing with a couple of replacements for the BMW and Miata. This, I hope, will make things a bit more even.

The BMW has been swapped with the equally fast and nimble Dodge SRT4 (I have it's weight maxed and it's HP almost as low as it'll go and it's STILL almost a second faster than everything. This is what happens when you give the Lancer's Engine to Dodge to beef up and stuff in a lighter car. And it handles awesomely), and the Mazda Miata has been switched with the 2003 Mazda 6. Now, according to the 2010 rules, the Mazda 6 is still allowed. The SRT4 was allowed in 2008-2009, but isn't in the 2010 rules. Probably because it was discontinued.

I also gave the Mini PB's desired weight reduction as it was clearly the slowest over all.

The SRT4 might still need a HP reduction, but I'll run a couple races in ST tomorrow to see.
 
Last edited:
Booooooo. I wanted the Miata. :(
Oh well, I guess I'll just take the Mazda alternative instead. :)

Actually, scratch that, I've just noticed the VW Golf on the list. I'm having that as I've had great experiences with it before...

Videos of VW Golf GTi V '05 battle at SFGTP5! :D
(Language warning for some foul language by me on a couple of occasions. Sorry. :guilty:)
 
Last edited:
Sorry about that, but those FR cars would have destroyed everyone in the long run and it would've been a mess to try to make them equal. Especially with the BMW almost at it's lowest HP and maxed out on weight. (kinda like the SRT4).

Speaking of the newbies, I might switch my ST choice from the TT to the SRT4. The handling on it is better. Although the TT's engine note is much better. But, I think I can live with the superior handling of the Dodge.
 
This seems it will be fun once all is sorted out. 👍
I'll choose a car later once I've done some testing but leaning towards the GS class.
 
just ran two races on Opera Paris with the Audi S4 and the M3. The Audi has a advantage that it's tire wear on that track is extremely uneven. So uneven that the back tires can make it twice as long as the front tires...and I even swapped the back tires for mediums on the first pitstop. The second pitstop I only took front tires. That means one of the pitstops is half as long as the other. The BMW beat it by a little over 30 seconds, but only because the M3 was insanely fast, and I switched to Soft tires for the last part of the race. I suspect, if I had kept it's tires Hard, it would have gotten closer to the Audi's time. So, on Opera, despite the BMW getting a good 2-3 laps more out of it's tires, it ends up spending more time in the pits than the Audi, and the major rule of winning endurance races is: "stay out of the pits"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
GTP Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge Series Season 1 Signup
2
Replies
37
Views
6K
raz_10
raz_10

Latest Posts

Back