E3 2010 GT5 3DTV - Industry User Comments / Opinons

  • Thread starter Mr Latte
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Mr Latte

Mr Latte

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With so much ANTI 3D chat from people that have not even tried it I would like to find out more about it but based on experiences from people having seen or been playing it... GT Planet at this time does not have a sensible discussion thread regards this possibly brillant feature and new technology with shutter glasses 3DTVs.

If you are anti 3D then this thread is not to argue about it but to collect factual information about it and help members determine if it offers something to the game. Many questions have not been answered regards 3DTV feature, for instance:

  • Are the graphics or gameplay effected
  • Is framerate effected
  • In general is the 3D game reduced in quality to accomodate the 3DTV effect
  • How does the game look in 720p 3D compared to 2D @ 1080p


Can we get real opinions from any E3 attendees and not just rely on comments from Sony representatives that sell this feature as "like driving a car in your livingroom" which is really just sales talk. Id like to discuss with members here linking websites/articles/videos which are based on E3's GT5 demonstration not previous displays at CES but on this latest build shown. Particulary personal thoughts from people that have perhaps seen or tried GT5 in 3DTV.


3DTV = Bennifit, Gimmick, Future or Failure?
Lets find out what the industry and actual user opinions are so far...


UPDATE:
The Sixth Axis Guide To PS3 3DTV

Official Sony 3D Developer Info Slideshow Presentation

Sony PS3 3D Games Available Resolutions:
1024 x 1470
960x 1470
800 x 1470
640 x 1470

Comparison GT5 1080p 2D
1280x1080 = 1382400 Pixels

Most likely GT5 3D resolutions are:
960 x 1470 = 1411200 (Slightly above demand for 1080p 2D)
800 x 1470 = 1176000 (Slightly below demand for 1080p 2D)

Looking at the pixel amounts does this point toward 800 x 1470 being the 3DTV resolution and using 4X AA rather than the 2X AA that 1080p 2D mode uses? The additional AA would help reduce the jaggies to an extent with the lower horizontal resolution used but would still look more jagged than the 1080p 2D display mode.

Kotaku raised this issue back at the CES event in Jan 2010 and as noted in these forums some comments coming from actual users may relate to the same thing that 3D mode indeed is running below native 720p resolution. Of course PS3 will then upscale whatever 3D compatible resolution a game uses to the 720p 3D HDMI standard.

I will be huntng for websites reporting about this feature and providing links, videos and any pictures that can be found.

Appreciate if some of us with an interest in this can try to contribute to the thread even though at this time just after E3 it may be hard to find responses or indepth articles covering it. More information about 3DTV and PS3 should continue to come in the next few months so this thread will be updated with good/bad comments and information that appears.

First video
[Youtube]ZZ6aW1fyG4s[/Youtube]


Future Video Updates will be placed here....
 
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Not much of us are gonna buy 3D LED TVs though. Still I will experience GT5 by using a LCD tv. :)
 
^ We probably will eventually though, so it's still interesting to see reviews of the technology and how GT5 plays with it..
 
I´ve tested an 3D TV from Samsung or Panasonic, I don´t know anymore. It was 2 weeks ago. I´m not impressed as I was in Avatar 3D. But I heared Sony is using an different "technic"?

My english is not good enough to describe the 3D feeling but the room was not dark enough and the pictures "flickered"? too much...

I´ve watched an short 3D movie and Tennis on Eurosport in 3D.

But I´ve tested it on an 3D notebook as well and there it was impressive... Only some pictures but they looked awesome!

I´m also interested in this 3D thing and I think it must be mindblowing to play GT5 in 3D. I remember the helicopter scene in Avatar 3D. I felt like I was sitting in this helicopter. So I bet the GT5 3D cockpit view will also feel like this.
 
I do not want this thread to be about 3DTV technology its price or market sales as that always becomes an argument. Some people have said many things against 3D on these forums like they wont sell yet already Samsung have sold over 250,000 in less than 2 months. 3D is coming as a technology wether people here want it or not.

This thread is not about that but about player or industry experiences from having experienced PS3 games and in particular GT5 in 3D. I want to gather balanced opinions on it from experiences of using it not assumptions.

Already many other AV forums have people that already own 3DTVs and Ive personally read good reports about the PS3 games available in 3D. If anything if you enjoy 3D then these new TVs seem to do a decent job of giving that effect in the home. Of course various brands and models will offer different levels of performance particulary on viewing angles, head tilting and crosstalk ghosting though I dont want this thread to be about the technology but its effectiveness and ability to enchance games.

Will the general opinions formed from people having experienced 3D on PS3 games be positive?
 
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On that video, there's still tyre smoke visible from the front tyres. I also noticed this on another video from bumper cam. This issue needs to be addressed.

Watch the video at 0:23 - 0:25
 
drivatar
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21943600&postcount=524
Click to expand...

Well if chespace says that, 3D GT5 is therefore probably the best thing the world has ever seen xD

Seriously though, i can't give any opinions on 3D for GT5, but i can offer limited insight on 3D gaming in general - i've played a few games in 3D before including Crysis, Command and Conquer 3, GRiD and DiRT 2. Each one certainly benefits from 3D as it really helps with immersion; the 3D effect in the racing games wasn't quite as strong as that with the shooter and the RTS, but going back to playing without it, the games feel lifeless in comparison. If 3D is done right, believe me, you want it.

He mentions that "oh no, things don't stick out of the screen"; that's exactly what they SHOULDN'T do, it completely ruins the 3D effect because on a normal screen your peripheral vision easily sees the edges of the screen and anything that's sticking out of the screen at the edges only enters one eye (due to paralax) and your brain hates it. The 3D effect works far better when it's designed to look like your TV is a window into the game world, rather than that the game world is jumping out at you.
 
Okay here is a recent interview with Kaz and "Playstation Blog"

Link
This is official confirmation that 3DTV feature is NOT the reason why the game was delayed!


"We then moved onto stereoscopic 3D, which Gran Turismo 5 will support, it was announced on Tuesday. I wanted to know at which point in the game’s development he had decided to include the feature.
The 3D feature was almost complete two years ago, actually. We could see that it was in that natural flow of technology and where things were heading. Discussions with Sony regarding 3D technology began more than three years ago. More recently we have spoken with Evolution Studios, who have put a lot of work into stereoscopic 3D, about things like video formats.

Because Gran Turismo 5 is built to run at 60 frames per second it was easy for us to implement 3D. It’s quite difficult to convert a game that runs at 30 frames per second to 3D.”

EDIT:
Updated first post with an important link that fully covers how and what is involved with PS3 3D games, its a good read and so far is the best insight to how it all works.
It also gives some understanding into how 3D games could but may not lower the resolution below 720p standard and use hardware scaling.
 
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drivatar
Direct link to the interesting document:
http://www.technology.scee.net/file...copic_3D/PS3_Making_Stereoscopic_3D_Games.pdf


According to the document 3D at 1080p is only possible when running at 24Hz.
So unless GT5 runs with 24fps in 3D Chris Hinojosa-Miranda is probably wrong:
http://www.pushsquare.com/15671/e3-2010-wait-what-gran-turismo-5s-3d-mode-is-1080p-too/
Click to expand...

See the first post updates.
The HDMI 3D Game standard is OFFICIALLY 720p NATIVE for both consoles and PC's.

btw thanks for the link for the videoblog...
 
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Played a handful of 3D ps3 games at the show yesterday.
...
GT5: 3D is, for the most part, a gimmick. No GT purist will ever play it in 3D. They had 12 kiosks set up, with a mix of 2D and 3D versions. Seeing the 2D version running at 60fps looked stunning. Nothing really "popped" off the screen.
...
Overall, I'd say 3D on ps3 isn't going to change much. It's not going to be a must have or anything, but everyone knew that already. Once it matures, I think it could be really cool.
Click to expand...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21899415&postcount=106

It's not clear what he want's to tell us by mentioning the framerate of the 2D version.
 
SimHQ @ E3 2010


This report has some interesting points


3D Gaming: ConManly visited Sony at E3 to try some of Sony’s 3D games and see if they were an up and coming feature or just a fad. Sony is trying to revolutionize the gaming industry with 3D gaming. Gran Turismo 5 (GT5) and Killzone 3 were major titles that were being demonstrated in HD and 3D. Here is the duplicitous nature of gaming; the younger age group favors 3D technology. With big cinema hits like Avatar — in the 3D theater, optimists believed there is a definite future in 3D. Grouchy pessimists, like the SimHQ folk, were weary of the 3D technology. ConManly was weary, but decided to weigh the pros and cons of 3D gaming.

Gran Turismo 5 had 6 2D HD games set up alongside 6 3D games. GT5 had a two long lines, which were both for the 3D setups. If a gamer wanted to play the game in 2D he needed only 30 seconds of waiting before he entered the empty racing seat. If a gamer wanted to experience 3D, the wait was around 30 minutes.

ConManly and Chipwitch played the 2D game for about 30 minutes, with little hassle from the Sony's GT5 assistants. People are cleraly excited about 3D. ConManly wanted to see what the fuss was all about and so he waited in line for 30 minutes like everyone else. There are a couple of things that people should know about 3D gaming in general.


The below is incorrect in price, compatibility and glasses being wired.
They may of been wired at the show to stop people stealing them


First, it would cost about $3,000 for a base model 40” 3D TV at this point in time. Our understanding is that these TVs are only compatible with 3D data, so could only be used for special titles; an HD TV can be used for any title. Lastly, the glasses were wired to the TV; extension cables may be required for comfortable living room use.
Chunx drives GT5 3D

SRT were really impressed with GT5 3DTV as we know but hold on...
Yet again just like AVATAR some it seems love 3D and really get it and other just dont enjoy or get it as much

The 3D in GT5 was not that impressive.
Panther and ConManly described the GT 5 3D as a moving pop-up book. Chunx noticed the trees around the track were very two-dimensional. Joe hardly noticed the 3D while driving because it was not striking enough. The 2D images were stacked so you could tell they were at different distances, but it was not visually aesthetic. It didn’t hinder the racing experience, but it didn’t greatly aid it either. Panther and Joe felt that the 3D in GT5 was utterly inconsequential to the experience. It seemed to the public and exhibitors that the 3D effect in GT 5 was an afterthought.

Then ConManly played Killzone 3. The team that created Killzone 3 really put a lot of effort into the 3D effects. It was impressive. Was it perfect? No, but it is cool getting excited about the visuals. ConManly talked with some developers and they said that Killzone 3 was made with 3D in mind and was a big part of the development. In short, well done. The visuals of the futuristic soldiers and oil rig were chaotic but beautiful.

The unanimous consensus was that we would rather allocate $3,000 to other purposes. However if the art of 3D really takes off and the industry expands, the option might be a realistic addition to the gaming community, especially when prices for 3D TVs eventually drop (of course, the 3D glasses are another story...).
 
Does anyone know if there are any 3D goggles (i.e. glasses with tiny built-in screens) which will work with the PS3?

To me, this seems like the best solution for many of us. First of all, 3D goggles are much cheaper than 3D TVs and their associated glasses. Secondly, if we use head-tracking, it will be hugely beneficial for the screen we are looking at to move with our heads... I can't imagine the whole head-tracking thing without the screen moving along with my head.

I've been searching, but so far I can't find anything regarding compatible 3D goggles.
 
If you want cheap 3D goggles, you should go to a 3D movie and just keep the glasses they give you. the goggles for the TVs can cost almost as much as a PS3
 
panjandrum
Does anyone know if there are any 3D goggles (i.e. glasses with tiny built-in screens) which will work with the PS3?

To me, this seems like the best solution for many of us. First of all, 3D goggles are much cheaper than 3D TVs and their associated glasses. Secondly, if we use head-tracking, it will be hugely beneficial for the screen we are looking at to move with our heads... I can't imagine the whole head-tracking thing without the screen moving along with my head.

I've been searching, but so far I can't find anything regarding compatible 3D goggles.
Click to expand...

The only dual LCD goggles I have ever seen were very low resolution, often marketed at Ipods and such. Also I don't think they accepted seperate inputs but rather just showed the same image on both LCDs, and even at that clocked in at multiple hundreds of dollars.

Ones that show a seperate image to each eye would probaby be quite pricey.

I tried a few pairs a long time ago and found that they were not good for me due to head shape and eye spacing, so that's something to consider.

SuperShouden
If you want cheap 3D goggles, you should go to a 3D movie and just keep the glasses they give you. the goggles for the TVs can cost almost as much as a PS3
Click to expand...

That might work if the TV is polarized the same way the movie theater was, however if the TV uses shutters or is polarized differently you would get no love.
 
True, and the new Sony 3D TVs that they were using for the GT5 3D demos used shutters. Hopefully, Sony is smart enough to ship two pairs of goggles with their TVs. 'Cause whatever USELESS idiot thought that just releasing a 3D TV without the goggles needs to be beaten with an old shoe.
 
SuperShouden
If you want cheap 3D goggles, you should go to a 3D movie and just keep the glasses they give you. the goggles for the TVs can cost almost as much as a PS3
Click to expand...

3D goggles are not the same thing as 3D glasses (which come in several different varieties; multi-color, polarized, shutter, maybe more?). 3D goggles have one tiny screen in front of each eye, and thus can provide 2D or 3D images. Think VR rigs. Some claim to be compatible with the PS3, but I can't easily determine if they just produce the 2D image, or if they will work with the PS3 3D functions also. For example:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00310YHDC/?tag=gtplanet-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00310SOLS/?tag=gtplanet-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SUCMUG/?tag=gtplanet-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SDZGOC/?tag=gtplanet-20
 
If I WERE to get a 3D TV and goggles to work with the TV and PS3, I'd probably just get Sony stuff. I know it'd all work then.
 
SuperShouden
If I WERE to get a 3D TV and goggles to work with the TV and PS3, I'd probably just get Sony stuff. I know it'd all work then.
Click to expand...

This is going to get very confusing very quickly if people keep confusing 3D glasses with 3D goggles...

So just to be clear:

3D Goggles need no TV, the screens are part of the headgear. 1 screen per eye, so 3D is very easy to create with them. No polarization, shutters, nothing. All you have to do is present the correct image to each eye. The downsides are limited resolutions (I think the best of them are still only 640x480 per eye), and that idiotic "goggleboy" look when you've got them on.

But the advantages of being able to get into GT5 in 3D for under $400 is obvious. Additionally, I think there will be a huge advantage for those of us wanting to use head-tracking.

I've got queries in to the tech-support departments at a couple manufacturers now. I'll let you know what they say when (if) they get back to me.
 
panjandrum
3D goggles are not the same thing as 3D glasses (which come in several different varieties; multi-color, polarized, shutter, maybe more?). 3D goggles have one tiny screen in front of each eye, and thus can provide 2D or 3D images. Think VR rigs. Some claim to be compatible with the PS3, but I can't easily determine if they just produce the 2D image, or if they will work with the PS3 3D functions also. For example:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00310YHDC/?tag=gtplanet-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00310SOLS/?tag=gtplanet-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SUCMUG/?tag=gtplanet-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SDZGOC/?tag=gtplanet-20
Click to expand...

I believe (but may be wrong on this) that the PS3 will only output 3D games via HDMI... so with no HDMI ability you can pretty much count out a set of goggles.
 
Devedander
I believe (but may be wrong on this) that the PS3 will only output 3D games via HDMI... so with no HDMI ability you can pretty much count out a set of goggles.
Click to expand...

It is almost impossible to find good information regarding these setups. For example, is a 240hz display a requirement for the PS3 3D experience, or is Sony just trying to sell more TVs? (People have been using 120hz 3D shutter systems now for years, and a few brave souls have even managed to get things working at 60hz. At any rate, we know the shutter-system as a whole doesn't require a 240hz refresh rate to work.)
 
Guys its simple PS3 3D will be compatible with all HDMI 1.4 3DTV Displays.


The whole reason for this is to ensure compatibility with all manufacturers, so if its a 600HZ plasma, a 200HZ LED or even a LCD none of that matters. Two things simple to remember 1.4 Spec and 3D Ready (meaning glasses and sensor bought seperate) or built in (meaning glasses provided and sensor built in)

All 3DTV and Projectors that ahdere to the 1.4 Spec can deal with various formats of 3D signals Top/Bottom or Side/Side and progressive or interlaced.
Once the hardware can detect and decode the 3D Sync then how that hardware displays 3D either via the most popular form using "Shutter Technology" or "Passive Glasses" like for instance LG use on their $10,000 3D Projector isnt a factor.

So future screens that use new or improved glasses or indeed no glasses will maintain compatibility with current 3DTV content/braodcasts.
 
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