FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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OK I am creating this in the hope that by providing an area for discussion of the merits of both series it will help stop these discussion occurring in other threads and dragging them off-topic.

However some clear ground rule will be put in place.

The first and most obvious regards the AUP. Every single post will be expected to follow the AUP, any AUP violations will result in action being taken by the staff.

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The staff reserve the right to amend and adjust the above as often and in any way we see fit.

Discuss away, but play nicely.


Scaff
 
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Both great games!
Gran Turismo taught me how to drive with my wheel and Forza gives me pleausure. I dont really see why should we even say what game is better. GT5 is good at this but FM is good at that......no game is better overall.
You must have both games "onwed" to really know the difference.(like me).
 
tfujiwara
Both great games!
Gran Turismo taught me how to drive with my wheel and Forza gives me pleausure. I dont really see why should we even say what game is better. GT5 is good at this but FM is good at that......no game is better overall.
You must have both games "onwed" to really know the difference.(like me).
Click to expand...

This. Everybody that have both games knows that there are great differences. Initially you cant really compare both games directly. They come from very different cultures and have very different approaches and targets. Sure they have more cars than any other game, more tracks also and high quality graphics.

What we can compare are the main areas. Driving physics and feel, graphics, multiplayer, tuning, b-spec (yes Forza 3 has it too!). Those areas are to discuss, because there we can compare them. Anything else are additions the other game doesnt really offer (livery editor, shops, auction house, clothing for the driver, 3D, and more).

I also want to see FM + GT than FM vs GT. What can the opposite Studio learn from the other? Why are they so different in the developement?

But one thing i have to say about GT: Without gtplanet, the GT-community would be pretty dead.
 
Forza:
  • Customization
  • Relatively more realistic damage
  • Tyre physics
  • Better car sounds
  • Online is comparatively better
  • Better selection of cars
  • More consistent graphics
  • More tracks

GT:
  • Better physics inmyhonestopinion
  • Good rendition of tracks
  • Premium cars better modeled and detailed
  • Sound engine (doppler effect, exhaust and engine have different notes and can be heard individually and their volume depends on the position of the camera, etc.)
  • Day/Night shift and weather and their transitions beautifully rendered
  • Better graphics
  • More cars especially historically important models
  • Photomode much better
  • B-Spec (not the way it is implemented in GT5, however)
 
Thank you for providing this venue for users to focus their discussions on comparable games in a regulated setting.

I'll begin by noting some charms found in both games; then, what I believe are elements that both games lack and (in my opinion) should be improved upon.

Highlights found in both Games:

- A clear passion for cars from the developers seen and heard through the games' car models, tracks, environment and engine sounds, physics, and other aspects.

- Attentions to model details, especially those found in the interior views of cars (where available) in both games.

- Attention to drive handling through robust physics engines.

- A variety of "professional" elements which enable gamers to learn and improve their driving.

Where both could be improved upon:

I own both Forza 3 and Gran Turismo 5. While I thoroughly enjoyed both titles at their inception, I quickly became disenchanted with GT5 after a some time. Having owned a number of racing titles, I was disappointed by (some) of GT5's graphics: the 800 "standard" cars, the reused tracks (such as deep forest). More so, I was surprised by GT5's glaring omission of certain models of famous cars, and their obsession with historical Japanese for such an international title. While I could always safely retreat to the cocoon of GT5's superior physics, the other aspects of the game left much to be desired.

Forza 3, while also an excellent game, does have room for improvement as well. The car lighting and modeling at times appear unrealistic, almost "game" like - an element not found in GT5's 200 premium model cars (especially "super-premium" models such as the Ferrari 458). Forza's driving physics also feels too forgiving. While this is understandable for certain demographics, it should feature a realistically driving mode for serious gamers and racers-in-training.



Do note, however, that I have the highest respect for KY and Dan Greenwelt. They have really brought automotive gaming to the next level, and through their outputs, defined what race gaming should be on current generation consoles. The deficiencies that I have noted pales in comparison to their merits found in both games.

I hope my tone of discussion was in concert with what this thread had intended. If not, I'll be happy to modify my post accordingly.
 
tfujiwara
Both great games!
Gran Turismo taught me how to drive with my wheel and Forza gives me pleausure. I dont really see why should we even say what game is better. GT5 is good at this but FM is good at that......no game is better overall.
You must have both games "onwed" to really know the difference.(like me).
Click to expand...

Beautifully noted.
 
I have both and find them to be #1 and #2 as far as my favourite driving/racing games go.

#1 goes to GT. The main reason I give is because it has something 'special' that I find lacking in FM. Whether you want to call it 'soul' or what I'm not sure but it feels more personal, like the PD team really took time over researching the cars which can be seen by the fact that each has a description about its history etc.

GT has a wider range of cars (from 13hp up to 1000hp) whereas FM tends to cater for 200+ hp cars in the main, although it has a decent selection of 100-150hp models. FM does have more 'desirable' cars however with the obvious inclusion of Porsche, Mosler, SSC, etc which is lacking in GT.

The one draw back about GT I find is that once you reach A-Spec lv. 23/24, it becomes somewhat of a grind to unlock all the endurance races and some cars can only be won by doing B-Spec (which I hate) otherwise certain cars cost 10,000,000 + credits which means a lot of laps at Indy :scared:
I think they could have structured the game better to save unnecessary grinding at the highest level.
 
tfujiwara
Both great games!
Gran Turismo taught me how to drive with my wheel and Forza gives me pleausure. I dont really see why should we even say what game is better. GT5 is good at this but FM is good at that......no game is better overall.
You must have both games "onwed" to really know the difference.(like me).
Click to expand...

I have both but tired of explaining. I think we must remember one thing while comparing those games - what is the reason to make each game, first initiative, main idea behind those game, their "soul" (the thing (dream) that keep this game progressing). Then it would be easer to understand why the each game is now what they are. If we say 'it's both "sims"' - I think it's only one part of the game that we can somewhat compare. I mean they are different, have different intentions, different main ideas, different souls. But at some point they are commune with each other ("sim" part). GT is Kaz's dream and his vision of a game. I don't want to discus what is FM about, but can say maybe some die-hard GT fan is tired for GT being the same and wanted add new features, then it's proceed to more ambition idea (King of racers). But if it's like this FM only exist because of GT. It's all my opinion of cource but I like GT soul - it's ONE idea but with each part Kaz is closing gap between his "dream game" and real one. And I like that. I like that this is not changing. I like how with each part he realizing his vision. Each part has it's own call. Of course GT is not perfect and such one idea makes very much problems, but anyway I like his vision. While Forza for me is just game. Kill me after that but for me FM is number of features compiled in one product. Like conveyor game, pure digital, with not so much new ideas as just ideas from other games (GT too). To me it's like very good (on paper) car but without it's pronounced soul, pure digital, trying to be as much as possible for all, acceptable, while GT is something exclusive, made by hand, with clear vision in mind (like you or not!) Again I can talk hours and hours about that but my knowledge of English really, really blocks me. And it's all my opinion.

P.S: Of course they are different, we can compare them but it's not changing anything - like just for fun :) To me only choice is buying both of them. But one I like "because" (of features) other I love "regardless" (of it's imperfections) :)

Pierced Lead
Forza:
  • Customization
  • Relatively more realistic damage
  • Tyre physics
  • Better car sounds
  • Online is comparatively better
  • Better selection of cars
  • More consistent graphics
  • More tracks

GT:
  • Better physics inmyhonestopinion
  • Good rendition of tracks
  • Premium cars better modeled and detailed
  • Sound engine (doppler effect, exhaust and engine have different notes and can be heard individually and their volume depends on the position of the camera, etc.)
  • Day/Night shift and weather and their transitions beautifully rendered
  • Better graphics
  • More cars especially historically important models
  • Photomode much better
  • B-Spec (not the way it is implemented in GT5, however)
Click to expand...

Good one! 👍 :)
 
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I think once FM4 is released and I have actually played it, I will be able to determine the direction of Forza, and how it's improved, and how it compares to GT5.
 
alucard0712
I think we must remember one thing while comparing those games - what is the reason to make each game, first initiative, main idea behind those game, their "soul" (the thing (dream) that keep this game progressing).
Click to expand...

Money. As much money as possible. T10 and PD are not small, independend game designers, they're big companies and they're out to get your money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anything else is just part of the PR drivel.

The reason those games are making progress is because that's what is needed to attract more players. It's just that simple. I mean, it's cool and somewhat cute and romantic to believe that there is anything more to a game, but it's also very naive.

Video games are an industry and have been for a long time now. Some games do have soul, yes, but those are usually not the one selling millions of copies on home consoles.

See, I somewhat like the whole "it's Kazunori's vision" thing about GT. I really do. I don't like where the vision has been going, but that's an entirely different point. The thing is, that may be what GT started out as, as Kazunori's vision. But the only reason we see the game still going nowadays is that it makes money. Otherwise, it would've long been axed by Sony.

Same with T10 and Forza, really. Dan may go on and on about how he wants to turn gamers into car lovers and car lovers into gamers, but at the end of the day, he's only allowed to drream of anything as long as that dream is selling well.

So, at the end of the day, even if Kaz and Dan are looking to fulfill a dream, a vision of theirs, it's all about the money. Because it's not Kaz's game, and it's not Dan's game, it's Sony's game and it's Microsoft's game.
 
I have the original Fora and, at least using the pad since I don't have a wheel, I hate the way the cars handle. I'm not sure how to describe it, if it's sudden weight shifting or simply being too easy to spin the wheels or what, it's just tough to navigate a track with any decently powerful car. I'm wanting to get a 360 and give the series another shot with FM4 because of the cars and tracks GT lacks, so has the handling changed significantly in the last two games? Comparable to any PS2/3 racers?
 
This was a good post by Pierced Lead...I just edited with my opinion:

Forza 3:
Better physics inmyhonestopinion
Customization
Relatively more realistic damage
Tire physics
Better car sounds
Online is comparatively better
Better selection of cars
More consistent graphics
More tracks
Store/Auction House

GT5:
Good rendition of tracks
Premium cars better modeled and detailed
Sound engine (doppler effect, exhaust and engine have different notes and can be heard individually and their volume depends on the position of the camera, etc.)
Day/Night shift and weather and their transitions beautifully rendered
Better graphics
Photomode much better
B-Spec (not the way it is implemented in GT5, however)
Drafting/wind noise feedback
Pit options/oil changes/car wash
Rally/NASCAR
 
Luminis
Money. As much money as possible. T10 and PD are not small, independend game designers, they're big companies and they're out to get your money. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

If you want money there are much easer ways than making a racing simulator game.

Ok even if we agree with your statement the question is "how did you make more money from the game? what's make this game different from other". We can continue discuss about that exactly the same like after my post. It changes nothing.

However I really can't agree with you. You may laugh at me but I know that money comes as a tool for you to make your dream (even better at further point). It's not a point, it's just tool. And you can't deny that no one gives you lot of money before your game is out. You need something to do before. So it's up to you to make a good game. That is a question. GT and FM both great games. We talking which one is "better", which idea will touch more people (= which game will make more money). But it's racing "sims" so they need to touch more of us, not FPS guys for example. All the same. :)
 
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CyborgGT
I have the original Fora and, at least using the pad since I don't have a wheel, I hate the way the cars handle. I'm not sure how to describe it, if it's sudden weight shifting or simply being too easy to spin the wheels or what, it's just tough to navigate a track with any decently powerful car. I'm wanting to get a 360 and give the series another shot with FM4 because of the cars and tracks GT lacks, so has the handling changed significantly in the last two games? Comparable to any PS2/3 racers?
Click to expand...

:odd:

The driving physics are comparable to the ones from GT5. I think the big differences are laying in the tyre physics. FM 1 is to FM 3, like GT 3 to GT 5.

I think the wide opinion is that Forza 3 is absolutely a test worthy.
 
I love Forza series & played Forza 3 for +40 hours but there is a Magic in GT series that other games havent it ! my only problem with GT5 was its small number of events :(
 
Forza wins it for me, simply because it has a greater sandbox quality to it than GT.

With GT i feel greatly constrained by the developers specific and subjective criteria as to what constitutes the "perfect" car game. KY has a very different set of priorities than i do when it comes to the perfect automotive experience. Many of the features i want in GT simply arnt there, and those that are lack the depth required for me to fully immerse myself into the game, tuning and car customization being prime examples.

I also feel the Forza is far more community related, the link between the community and the developer is very strong, it might not be obvious at fist glance, but Turn 10 are always monitoring the forums and game data, to ensure that the community has a major input into the features/content of future games and DLC.

And for me thats something that just doesnt happen with PD, PD seem to exist in their own little ivory tower, oblivious to the needs and desires of its customers, the only time PD imo ever throw a bone to their customers is when their under pressure from their competitors and the changing nature of the gaming market.

With Forza i feel like im getting a game with well fleshed out features, i simply cant say the same about GT, it might have more cars but i cant do half as much with them as i can in forza.

Conclusion:

I dont want to be restricted by someone else imposing their idea of how i should be playing with the cars, i just want the game to provide me with the tools so i can create my perfect automotive experience, and share that experience with other like minded people.

And thats were Forza wins hands down IMO ;)
 
Mr Fox
Forza wins it for me, simply because it has a greater sandbox quality to it than GT.

With GT i feel greatly constrained by the developers specific and subjective criteria as to what constitutes the "perfect" car game. KY has a very different set of priorities than i do when it comes to the perfect automotive experience. Many of the features i want in GT simply arnt there, and those that are lack the depth required for me to fully immerse myself into the game, tuning and car customization being prime examples.

I also feel the Forza is far more community related, the link between the community and the developer is very strong, it might not be obvious at fist glance, but Turn 10 are always monitoring the forums and game data, to ensure that the community has a major input into the features/content of future games and DLC.

And for me thats something that just doesnt happen with PD, PD seem to exist in their own little ivory tower, oblivious to the needs and desires of its customers, the only time PD imo ever throw a bone to their customers is when their under pressure from their competitors and the changing nature of the gaming market.

With Forza i feel like im getting a game with well fleshed out features, i simply cant say the same about GT, it might have more cars but i cant do half as much with them as i can in forza.

Conclusion:

I dont want to be restricted by someone else imposing their idea of how i should be playing with the cars, i just want the game to provide me with the tools so i can create my perfect automotive experience, and share that experience with other like minded people.

And thats were Forza wins hands down IMO ;)
Click to expand...
Very well said. 👍

I own and play both series and have always been a multi console open minded gamer. In fact I own pretty much every GT game out there including the JPN versions and PAL versions. Both game series have their postives and negatives but the negatives are overwhelming in GT5. And you are correct, PD just does not listen to the community.

I have been a GT fan for over 10-11 years. The biggest part that killed GT5 for me are the standard cars. 6 years to develop GT5 and only 20% of the cars are finished?? I mean premium?! This means only 20% have interiors, and only 20% can be taken to Photo Travel, only 20% can have their wheels changed, and only 20% are fully detailed. The list goes on. Plus the standard cars are imported from the PSP and are just insulting. If all the cars had been premium and finished, GT5 would have been a great game and would have felt complete. Because we wouldnt be restricted to 20% of the game. We could pick any car we want for photo travel, any car could have its wheels changed, and you get the rest. So many things in GT5 went backward.

Forza has always been about listening to the community. And for a gamer thats online all the time, Forza has almost everything I could ask for in a simulation. It does have a few issues I would like resolved in F4 but overall, there is nothing that matches all the features and community content thats in F3. The amount of content and everything we can do with the cars is overwhelming. Thousands of vinyls, engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, sell setups online, sell cars online, sell paint jobs online, trade with friends, the list goes on and on.
 
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My opinion on both games:

Turn10 cares about its consumers, and making them as happy as possible.

PD cares about cars, and making them as accurate as possible.

Neither is more noble a goal, but both companies are starting to explore a little more in the opposite direction, with Forza becoming more realistic and showing more variety in the cars it features, and Gran Turismo adding online content and updating pretty often.

Both have a lot of work to do to become great games in my eyes. There are frustrating issues with both games at the moment, and I've been taking a break from racing games until at least some of them are sorted.
 
dylansan
My opinion on both games:

Turn10 cares about its consumers, and making them as happy as possible.

PD cares about cars, and making them as accurate as possible.

Neither is more noble a goal, but both companies are starting to explore a little more in the opposite direction, with Forza becoming more realistic and showing more variety in the cars it features, and Gran Turismo adding online content and updating pretty often.

Both have a lot of work to do to become great games in my eyes. There are frustrating issues with both games at the moment, and I've been taking a break from racing games until at least some of them are sorted.
Click to expand...

I agree!
 
This thread might eventually spiral into something not so pretty.

Regardless, I'll chime in.
I like and play both Forza 3 and GT5. Both are great titles with their own pros and cons. I actually alternate now back and forth between the two. If I am remote racing (finished with Bspec) I'll most likely be playing Forza 3. GT5 does have it's faults and there's a lot that you ask wtf were PD doing all these years and where did the 60mil go but at the end of the day the game runs fine even with issues. I love both franchises but as a dev I just see T10 doing more than PD. I am really looking forward to Forza 4 but I am also really looking forward to the possibility of DLC coming to GT5. In both games I still got lots to do. Level 27-28 in aspec with all of S class license still to do, quite a few special events to complete and many of the seasonals I never completed so I know I'm missing out on a lot of xp, cars and credits. In Forza 3, I'm in race 2 of my last season (held off on this to get an Audi R10 or R15 for the last R1 races) and have been just messing around in the auction house or building/racing cars for the events list. I'm a car guy and multiplat owner so I'm open to both.
 
dylansan
PD cares about cars, and making them as accurate as possible.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with that. Standard cars are not accurate, also the exhaust note on most of the cars is waaayyy off and the point as to which cars can be upgraded fall quite a bit short of their real life counterparts in most cases. It may only be 3 things but to me they are pretty important.
 
Premiums are also 'not accurate'... Well... at least my V10 Audi R8 shows a V8 in the bay.
They do look very nice and very accurate though. Some standards too. But knowing that a Volvo wagon is listed as 400lbs more than the real thing... not so accurate.
I think both have faults like these. I recall one of the Subbies in Forza 3 having a rear brake caliper modeled as being mounted on the wrong way.
 
As far as driving experience at least, they are pretty accurate. They have certainly been improving accuracy more than consumer happiness with each generation of the game. There are of course parts that are inaccurate, as there are things in Forza that make me, the consumer, unhappy.

Niether game is perfect in either aspect, and it's quite frustrating actually. I wish they could just team up and contribute the parts they get right, and let the other company fix what they got wrong, to make one perfect racing game. But that would not work, and will never happen. They are and always will be two very different games.
 
Why do we have to compare them eternally?

Both are great games, both have advantages and disadvantages, both are the top driving games in the console world.

I love both; I wish Forza could have GT physics, music, and graphic design, and I wish GT could have Forza's progression system, car selection, customization and engine sounds.

So, what can we do about it?

Play both, enjoy both I guess. Or pray for both of them to develop a joint project, or easier yet, pray for them to learn from each other putting their pride and stubbornness aside.
 
Chad Esposito
Why do we have to compare them eternally?

Both are great games, both have advantages and disadvantages, both are the top driving games in the console world.

I love both; I wish Forza could have GT physics, music, and graphic design, and I wish GT could have Forza's progression system, car selection, customization and engine sounds.

So, what can we do about it?

Play both, enjoy both I guess. Or pray for both of them to develop a joint project, or easier yet, pray for them to learn from each other putting their pride and stubbornness aside.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you've noticed but Forza, or rather, Turn 10 aren't afraid to learn from other games whether it be NFS, PGR, GT, GTR, etc, etc. PD obviously thinks GT is good enough to stand on whatever archaic features it has and doesn't really show a willingness to learn from any of the competition...as proclaimed by Kazunori when saying something to the effect of he (they) don't acknowledge or pay attention to what the competition is doing.

And it shows.
 
Terronium-12
I don't know if you've noticed but Forza, or rather, Turn 10 aren't afraid to learn from other games whether it be NFS, PGR, GT, GTR, etc, etc. PD obviously thinks GT is good enough to stand on whatever archaic features it has and doesn't really show a willingness to learn from any of the competition...as proclaimed by Kazunori when saying something to the effect of he (they) don't acknowledge or pay attention to what the competition is doing.

And it shows.
Click to expand...

I am completely aware, but didn't want to make my comment a Forza biased one. I'm totally with you, I was just being politically correct, you know. Turn 10 is the perfect example of a company that knows how to learn, and how to improve things.
 

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