Braking <--- Correct way to to it?

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Sharkiex

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sharkiex38
Hello fellow GT players, my first post here :)

I find the hardest part of the game is braking. What is the correct way to do it? Many guides say to finish braking (HARD) BEFORE you start turning the wheel, some say to gradually ease off the brakes and WHILE turning. I find it very difficult to get consistent lap times because my braking is extremely inconsistent.

Also, for hairpins, the racing line sometimes show 2 braking points. Are you supposed to brake in the middle of the turn?

I practice on Tsukuba btw. Thank you so much!!
 
Depending on the car you should try to get all of your braking done in a straight line, and then use the throttle to balance the car through the middle of the corner to the exit. You need to think of the available grip to each tyre as a "friction circle". The more grip you allocate to longitudinal force, the less you have available for lateral force. So no, generally you shouldn't be braking in the middle of a corner.

I'd advise you turn off the racing line stuff, and use visual aids like the distance boards (or other objects) and just practice braking later and later until you can't get the front turned in.
 
I like to do all my braking before the corner, with the wheels straight. As I put some wheel in, I am just dragging the brake if I am going in a little hot, just play with the throttle through the center of the corner and then get to full throttle as quick as I can.

About the hairpins, I don't really take them any differently, I don't brake twice like you mentioned, unless its like turn one at Laguna, where you have two apexes to handle.
 
Audiman90
I like to do all my braking before the corner, with the wheels straight. As I put some wheel in, I am just dragging the brake if I am going in a little hot, just play with the throttle through the center of the corner and then get to full throttle as quick as I can.

About the hairpins, I don't really take them any differently, I don't brake twice like you mentioned, unless its like turn one at Laguna, where you have two apexes to handle.
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Even at Laguna, I'd reckon its better to control your speed via careful throttle inputs having done your braking in a straight line. I'd also argue that hitting the first "apex" isn't really necessary, you can do just as well entering wide, and hitting a later apex on the way out of the corner. This can set up an overtaking opportunity into the next couple of right-hand corners.
 
fastest way to break is dont lift the break during the breaking but for this you must know the breaking points really good...

if you lift the break during breaking you lose much time.

wich im only able to at deep forest @ nordschleife
 
I usually start braking softly so that I keep the grip as high as possible. hard brake = wheels blocking even with ABS on 1.
stop braking by just releasing the stick (drive with DS3) and gently starting building up power.
find the balance on every track!

good luck
 
Sharkiex
Also, for hairpins, the racing line sometimes show 2 braking points. Are you supposed to brake in the middle of the turn?
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If the racing line shows a solid red line that is when I put the brakes hard on, if the other braking point that you are seeing is a faded red line then neither accelerate or brake at those, just try to maintain your speed.

The only other tip I can give is not to treat the racing line as gospel, if the racing line says brake hard ignore it for a split second then brake hard... Be brave!
 
Hey, welcome to GT Planet!

Do you have a steeringwheel? Because your experience may change if you do use one.

What can be useful, is giving your Bob 3 different premium cars, one FF (Suzuki Swift Sport '07, Volkswagen Golf GTI '01 or Ford Focus ST '06), one FR (BMW M3 Coupé), and a 4WD (Audi R8 V10) and watch him drive those from the driver seat, with the braking and throttle information visible. You can learn a lot from him, but take over his braking points exactly, brake a little later then the racing line like Fluk3 said.

You can also try and give the Bob a RR car like a RUF or Alpine.
 
This is a very difficult subject and I don't think any of you have addressed it properly.

The short answer is this: Brake hard in a straight line, then as you turn in release the brake quickly but smoothly to about 40%-50%, and then release it gradually down to nothing just before the apex. Then you get ready to feed the power in for corner exit.

NEVER release the brake in a sudden movement, in unbalances the car, causing it rock backwards and your front end will understeer (this is called wash-out).

Now for the science bit:

The old "friction circle" explanation seems very logical (and was included in the GT1 manual) which is why many people seem to stick to it. However it doesn't take into account the weight shift of the car forwards under braking. if you like, braking increases the radius of the friction circle, allowing you to do more work with the front tyres. It's actually faster to continue to brake all the way down to the apex because you maintain a higher corner speed while keeping the same (or better) turning performance. This is called trail-braking.

This applies to the start of your braking phase as well - you should feed in the brake quickly but not instantly, as the weight shift of the car forwards gives you more braking ability after the initial deceleration.

If you're driving a car with lots of aero, don't do trail braking at high speed. At speed most of your grip is coming from the aero, the added grip from weight shift becomes negligible and hurts your cornering performance.

Lastly, I must re-iterate: It's really (really) important not to release the brake suddenly EVER. Gently feed it out so your car remains balanced. If the weight of your car rocks backwards it will destroy your laptimes. This is most important at low speed.

If you want to improve your braking performance, I strongly recommend you turn ABS off and set your brake balance to 5F/2R (3R for the stiffer racers). Being able to lock the tyres gives you a much better feel for where the limits are and how much you should be braking at any point. It is much more difficult but also more rewarding, and will make you go faster.
 
Mopatop
This is a very difficult subject and I don't think any of you have addressed it properly.

The short answer is this: Brake hard in a straight line, then as you turn in release the brake quickly but smoothly to about 40%-50%, and then release it gradually down to nothing just before the apex. Then you get ready to feed the power in for corner exit.

NEVER release the brake in a sudden movement, in unbalances the car, causing it rock backwards and your front end will understeer (this is called wash-out).

Now for the science bit:

The old "friction circle" explanation seems very logical (and was included in the GT1 manual) which is why many people seem to stick to it. However it doesn't take into account the weight shift of the car forwards under braking. if you like, braking increases the radius of the friction circle, allowing you to do more work with the front tyres. It's actually faster to continue to brake all the way down to the apex because you maintain a higher corner speed while keeping the same (or better) turning performance. This is called trail-braking.

This applies to the start of your braking phase as well - you should feed in the brake quickly but not instantly, as the weight shift of the car forwards gives you more braking ability after the initial deceleration.

If you're driving a car with lots of aero, don't do trail braking at high speed. At speed most of your grip is coming from the aero, the added grip from weight shift becomes negligible and hurts your cornering performance.

Lastly, I must re-iterate: It's really (really) important not to release the brake suddenly EVER. Gently feed it out so your car remains balanced. If the weight of your car rocks backwards it will destroy your laptimes. This is most important at low speed.

If you want to improve your braking performance, I strongly recommend you turn ABS off and set your brake balance to 5F/2R (3R for the stiffer racers). Being able to lock the tyres gives you a much better feel for where the limits are and how much you should be braking at any point. It is much more difficult but also more rewarding, and will make you go faster.
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Trail braking may help you get to the apex a bit quicker, but it will cost you exit speed. Best to get your braking done in a straight line, slow the entry speed up a little and nail the throttle earlier to give yourself a bit of extra speed down the other end of the straight.
 
Braking isn't hard at all once you learn how to properly do it which can only really be achieved by seat time.

Try doing all of your braking before the initial turn and carrying all of your momentum through the corner while accelerating as much as you can without taking the wrong line for the turn. In some situations you might need to brake during the corner, if for instance you didn't brake hard enough before the turn or if you're actually racing and someone is in your way. All in all try to ease on the brakes just enough before the turn to take the proper "turn line" and then once you're in the turn accelerate as much as you can without making the turn look rough and you should be alright.

Remember that this can only be achieved with patience and seat time IMO. 👍
 
peter_vod69
Trail braking may help you get to the apex a bit quicker, but it will cost you exit speed. Best to get your braking done in a straight line, slow the entry speed up a little and nail the throttle earlier to give yourself a bit of extra speed down the other end of the straight.
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There's no reason you can't combine trail braking with a late apex to get you both. This is my technique at Grand Valley T1 and it's the fastest way to the hairpin at T4. But don't get obsessed with late apexes for exit speed, it's not important at every corner. Suzuka Circuit for example has an entire section where corner exit is irrelevant.

Back to trail braking however, this really is the fastest way to race. Trust me if your front tyres aren't loaded while making your turn you aren't making the best use of your grip. I was taught this technique by an actual racing driver whom I go head to head with on the seasonal TTs every week. I know what I'm talking about.
 
Mopatop
There's no reason you can't combine trail braking with a late apex to get you both. This is my technique at Grand Valley T1 and it's the fastest way to the hairpin at T4. But don't get obsessed with late apexes for exit speed, it's not important at every corner. Suzuka Circuit for example has an entire section where corner exit is irrelevant.

Back to trail braking however, this really is the fastest way to race. Trust me if your front tyres aren't loaded while making your turn you aren't making the best use of your grip. I was taught this technique by an actual racing driver whom I go head to head with on the seasonal TTs every week. I know what I'm talking about.
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Yeah and I still think it very much depends on the corner. Oh and I've done track days myself, so I also know what I'm talking about. Trail braking isn't always the fastest way through a corner.
 
Sharkiex
Hello fellow GT players, my first post here :)

I find the hardest part of the game is braking. What is the correct way to do it? Many guides say to finish braking (HARD) BEFORE you start turning the wheel, some say to gradually ease off the brakes and WHILE turning. I find it very difficult to get consistent lap times because my braking is extremely inconsistent.

Also, for hairpins, the racing line sometimes show 2 braking points. Are you supposed to brake in the middle of the turn?

I practice on Tsukuba btw. Thank you so much!!
Click to expand...

This is part of the skill will you learn by practicing. Both methods you describe are appropriate in different situations. It depends on the type of corner you are approaching. Some turns do have 2 apexes. So, you will brake twice - the last turn on Suzuka after the esses is a good example.

On a single apex turn, I prefer to brake hard at entry. Let off the brake just before the apex. Roll into the apex. Then, apply throttle to get a good exit.

On a double apex turn I use basically the same approach. But, between the two apexes, I apply just enough throttle to hold my line.

I will sometimes trailbrake during a race to get deeper into the turn than my opponent, but this can (but not always) lead to slower corner exit and I could be overtaken.

As you learn the courses, you will figure out the proper corner entry speeds, and how to hold your line through a turn using mostly the throttle instead of the wheel (or stick).
 
iamjajo
Some turns do have 2 apexes. So, you will brake twice - the last turn on Suzuka after the esses is a good example.
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The Dunlop Curve is a bad example for this as in most cars the second part can be taken flat out. A better example would be Spoon (which follows the long right after the hairpin) or T1.
 
brake in a straight line if you can depending on track of course. think of it like this when approaching any corner- Slow in, Fast out
 
Mopatop
This is a very difficult subject and I don't think any of you have addressed it properly.

The short answer is this: Brake hard in a straight line, then as you turn in release the brake quickly but smoothly to about 40%-50%, and then release it gradually down to nothing just before the apex. Then you get ready to feed the power in for corner exit.

NEVER release the brake in a sudden movement, in unbalances the car, causing it rock backwards and your front end will understeer (this is called wash-out).
Click to expand...

This is my preferred method of braking, but it takes time and practice. I use a DFGT and because the pedals are so light it really lacks feel, so I modded it with some bungee cords to improve feedback. Really helped with the braking. Doesn't work on every corner of course, an off camber corner for example requires a lighter touch (1st left hander at Top Gear for example), a cambered corner tends to induce oversteer (right hander into the tunnel at Deep Forest) but you'll find that if you can master trail braking in this manner you'll be more consistent, faster and are less likely to get passed or even divebombed under braking because you'll be braking later than most other racers to begin with.

One thing I didn't see mentioned is brake balance. It's different from car to car, but I find for trail braking, starting with ABS on 1, I usually will begin at 5/6 or 4/5 and adjust from there. If you find the car is pushing under heavy braking then you need to lower the front. If the rear end is sloppy under braking lower the rear balance. Of course, this is assuming your car is tuned and balanced to begin with, something you need to get done, before you find tune your brake balance.

And turn off the driving line. It's ok in the beginning when you are just learning, but if you want to really be precise you need to pay attention to the visual clues at each track to find your braking points. Shadows on the track, ends of curbs, signs etc. Every corner has something you can use as a guide to begin braking. This is what you want to be looking at and not distracted by watching the racing line.
 
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in time, The more I practice car and track, the less I use the brake pedal.

However, I am a fan of Cadence Braking. Sometimes I "flicker" my brake light , 25 car lengths ahead, and turn where I need to with the car settled the way I want it, while 5 opponents in front of me are sliding all over the place with smoking tires, as I pass them accellerating while they're praying to their LSD-sensitivity Gods to save them.
 
As long as you use the ABS in GT5, trying to paying too much attention on braking control is overall a worthless effort in my opinion. The reason is that the ABS in this game, unlike real life systems, is able to never lock tires no matter the load on each of them and how quickly it changes.

Once you disable it (after setting up a proper braking distribution), you will have to apply proper braking techniques in order to be competitive.
 
Johnnypenso
And turn off the driving line. It's ok in the beginning when you are just learning, but if you want to really be precise you need to pay attention to the visual clues at each track to find your braking points. Shadows on the track, ends of curbs, signs etc. Every corner has something you can use as a guide to begin braking. This is what you want to be looking at and not distracted by watching the racing line.
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This is good advice, but be really careful that you do not use shadows on a track that has time progression. NEVER USE SHADOWS IN REAL LIFE! They have a nasty habit of moving during the race.
 
Wow all of you are super helpful. I do have a DFGT and the pedals really do suck. Will try to do some mods to it. When doing trail braking, I realize the car actually turns hardest at the point when you are completely off the brakes. Stay on the brakes for too long and you understeer, let go too early and you will enter too fast. It's tough to balance this.
 
Sharkiex
Wow all of you are super helpful. I do have a DFGT and the pedals really do suck. Will try to do some mods to it. When doing trail braking, I realize the car actually turns hardest at the point when you are completely off the brakes. Stay on the brakes for too long and you understeer, let go too early and you will enter too fast. It's tough to balance this.
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You are exactly right Sharkie. It is tough to balance this but if you can get the hang of it, you'll be smoother and faster.

My mod is pretty simple. I have a custom stand I picked up from my brother, but didn't like the seat so I replaced it with a captains chair from a mini van, armrests and all. Very comfortable now. I just took two bungee cords hooked to the rear spine of the pedals, brought it around the inside and then hooked it to the chair with an inch or two of stretch. Works great and you can tighten it up by knotting the cords if you like or by some other method. Not the prettiest thing in the world but it does work really well for modulating the brakes and feathering the throttle.

You will also find that adjusting the brake balance helps with this understeer. Even going from 5/5 to 4/5 in some cases or 6/5 in others is often enough to remove the braking understeer/oversteer. Just make sure when you test you don't only do it on the flatter tracks like Nurb GP/D because they are easier to brake on than say Deep Forest or Trial Mountain, with their cambered corners and elevation changes. If it works at DF or TM it generally will work anywhere.
 
Mopatop
There's no reason you can't combine trail braking with a late apex to get you both. This is my technique at Grand Valley T1 and it's the fastest way to the hairpin at T4. But don't get obsessed with late apexes for exit speed, it's not important at every corner. Suzuka Circuit for example has an entire section where corner exit is irrelevant.

Back to trail braking however, this really is the fastest way to race. Trust me if your front tyres aren't loaded while making your turn you aren't making the best use of your grip. I was taught this technique by an actual racing driver whom I go head to head with on the seasonal TTs every week. I know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Trail braking is not something that should be done for all corners. You really need to spend some time on the track running hot laps to see which is which. Real world example: I find that on corners like Turn 1 and Oak Tree at Virginia International it is very effective, but going down into Roller Coaster and Hog Pen braking early and accelerating through allows you to hit the front straight at a much higher speed.

But, as much as anything it has to do with your driving style and how you have prepared your car. When I race I like to have a car that is planted in the corners and doesn't slide all around, but to many people that would feel sluggish and slow.

Practice is key. Take some time and learn the braking points, then do some experimenting with different styles of braking, apexing, etc. to see what you find to be fastest, and remember though, any kind of hard braking in a corner is very likely to send you off the track backwards.
 
I would say a fundamental thing to remember is that the brakes are NOT an on-off switch. The goal is not 100% maximum brake application and then none at all. For some corners that will be OK, for others, it will actually slow you down. It took me a long while to realize that. But remember at the end of the day, optimizing corner exit is more important than perfect braking.
 
YellowG1
I would say a fundamental thing to remember is that the brakes are NOT an on-off switch. The goal is not 100% maximum brake application and then none at all. For some corners that will be OK, for others, it will actually slow you down. It took me a long while to realize that. But remember at the end of the day, optimizing corner exit is more important than perfect braking.
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+1
👍
 
I brake hard on a straight and then use light to mid throttle around a turn. If the car has understeer, then I break more.
 
in gt5 is it faster braking to not lock the brakes? I know almost everyone uses abs to prevent wheel lock, but in real life, abs does not necessarily make you stop quicker.

if anyone understands my ramble, then a few detailed explanations would be appreciated.

ps, not meaning to hijack the thread; just seemed appropriate to the title without making a new thread
 

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