Outside front red bloody tire.
- Thread starter brumbies1
- 49 comments
- 4,121 views
- 3,359
- California
- PumpinNumbies
If it's FWD or AWD it's your front LSD accel setting. Too high.
Rotary Junkie
Premium
- 9,810
- Canton, MI
- RJs_RX-7
If using a wheel, you're turning it too far.
OK. so I just ran 40 odd laps and studied the replays.I can see myself turning the wheel to far physically for corners that shouldn't need it and even when I don't see red front tire I feel the wheel is turned to far.As far as I can tell replays don't show the front wheels at full lock nor do they look as though they are angled to far.....Now it dosen't happen under braking but when I'm coasting ,once back on the throttle it has gone.Am I trying to take the corners to fast even though I follow the driving line, break when told and begin coasting when I feel I can I make the corner then safely get back on the throttle.I feel my brakes are strong enough but maybe not....Would it be one particular thing ...setup..wheel(logitech driving force wireless)...car(this car isn't known for it's turning capabilities)lame excuse I know....or more importantly my skill as a driver.
Have just run 30 laps with the same car and a set from RKM.RKM was for 40 hp less though I kept my hp.Setups widly different and it took 4 or 5 laps to adjust and am posting the same times as my set up with the BLOODY RED TIRE....Am seeing the turning of the steering wheel hasn't changed and still seems to far for the corning ,which leads me to believe the wheel maybe the problem not the setup...or the car....but still could be my driving skills.My father always said writing things down makes things clearer and becomes easier to understand,but that advice went in one ear and out the other,till now.
Forgot to say that RKM obviously know what they are doing as far as set-ups ,where as I although have read, re-read ,tested, re-read and driven hours trying to understand the handling of cars I wouldn't still don't havve a complete knowledge of how it all works.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
My opinion is that it is something in the car setup. You said that it is a FR, but what car are we talking about?
I haven't seen a guide written yet that talks about solving red tire issues. The LSD discussions have covered it very well when talking about red drive line tires while accelerating out of a corner. But what about red tires on entry or as brumbies1 is describing outside red tire around mid corner? I was debating about writing a guide like this, but I cannot fully solve the problem on some cars. Maybe other tuners have landed on exactly what to do, but I just haven't discovered one method that works on all FR cars. On some of my FRs the lap times are simply better with a bit of outside front red vs. outside rear red or both red.
First, I think we need to agree upon what is happening. Brumbies1, let me know if I clearly understand the red tire issue. It only happend mid corner, not under braking nor under acceleration. So, we are talking about the transition from forward momentum into the side forces of corner grip. You have to find more rotation in the setup. When I first read your comments, I was ready to rule out LSD and brake bias, but now I am second guessing those thoughts. Both of these settings can cause a delay in corner entry rotation (make it more difficult to turn in) which will translate to an overheated outside tire that you will see in mid-corner.
What are your LSD decel settings? High decel settings will make the car more stable, meaning will try to keep it going in a straight line. Low decel settings will allow the car to rotate more. I try to run decel at 5 on all cars that will allow me to. If a car is loose on entry or under braking, only then will I add LSD decel.
What are your brake bias settings? Do you trail brake or is all of your braking done in a straight line before you ever turn the wheel. Entering a corner with lots of speed while trying to brake and turn at the same time will often overload the outside front tire if the setup isn't built to match that driving style. I am a super late braker both in GT5 and in real life. I like my cars to have an aggressive rotation on entry which gives me a tighter mid corner an hopefully an earlier launch off the corner. Lower front brake bias and higher rear will put more braking emphasis on the rear wheels and can help a car to rotate during trail braking. Higher front and lower rear will provide more stability on entry, but make the car more difficult to rotate under entry. If you are a late braker and are turing while still braking then you man need lower front brake bias. I run low front/high rear on almost all FRs that I drive. The LeMans Prototypes, F1, FGT and some of the GT500 cars I will run slightly higher front than rear, if the car is unstable under braking.
Play with these two settings and let us know where you are. These don't always fully solve the outside front red tire issue so you may need to do more things to get the car to rotate. There are many ways to do that, but it's a much longer discussion with many differing tuner opinions on how best to do it.
I haven't seen a guide written yet that talks about solving red tire issues. The LSD discussions have covered it very well when talking about red drive line tires while accelerating out of a corner. But what about red tires on entry or as brumbies1 is describing outside red tire around mid corner? I was debating about writing a guide like this, but I cannot fully solve the problem on some cars. Maybe other tuners have landed on exactly what to do, but I just haven't discovered one method that works on all FR cars. On some of my FRs the lap times are simply better with a bit of outside front red vs. outside rear red or both red.
First, I think we need to agree upon what is happening. Brumbies1, let me know if I clearly understand the red tire issue. It only happend mid corner, not under braking nor under acceleration. So, we are talking about the transition from forward momentum into the side forces of corner grip. You have to find more rotation in the setup. When I first read your comments, I was ready to rule out LSD and brake bias, but now I am second guessing those thoughts. Both of these settings can cause a delay in corner entry rotation (make it more difficult to turn in) which will translate to an overheated outside tire that you will see in mid-corner.
What are your LSD decel settings? High decel settings will make the car more stable, meaning will try to keep it going in a straight line. Low decel settings will allow the car to rotate more. I try to run decel at 5 on all cars that will allow me to. If a car is loose on entry or under braking, only then will I add LSD decel.
What are your brake bias settings? Do you trail brake or is all of your braking done in a straight line before you ever turn the wheel. Entering a corner with lots of speed while trying to brake and turn at the same time will often overload the outside front tire if the setup isn't built to match that driving style. I am a super late braker both in GT5 and in real life. I like my cars to have an aggressive rotation on entry which gives me a tighter mid corner an hopefully an earlier launch off the corner. Lower front brake bias and higher rear will put more braking emphasis on the rear wheels and can help a car to rotate during trail braking. Higher front and lower rear will provide more stability on entry, but make the car more difficult to rotate under entry. If you are a late braker and are turing while still braking then you man need lower front brake bias. I run low front/high rear on almost all FRs that I drive. The LeMans Prototypes, F1, FGT and some of the GT500 cars I will run slightly higher front than rear, if the car is unstable under braking.
Play with these two settings and let us know where you are. These don't always fully solve the outside front red tire issue so you may need to do more things to get the car to rotate. There are many ways to do that, but it's a much longer discussion with many differing tuner opinions on how best to do it.
Motor city Hami,hoping you may have caught the thread.Have read, re-read your tuning guide and all your explanations and information.Printed it all up and stuck it in a binder and refer to it all the time.Remember reading you were thinking about writing a guide for this and troubleshooter different things.At THe moment C63 AMG,SAW the series that was being held by WRS at Grand Valley East and thought I'd test myself never have before.Not sure but remember reading in the rules about not postings or talking about certain aspects of the race here on GTP,so don't know if I'm over stepping the bounds.
LSD settings for C63 amg without re-enforcement 9..15..5 brake bias f/2..r/4 I always run brakes low front high rear where I can..READ THAT SOMEWHERE!!!! Tried higher numbers for rear they lock and smoke. 5 or 6 ok though seem to find 4 work nice for me with the set up I have so far.
Have C63 amg with re-enrorcement LSD 12 19 8 Brake bias the same f/2/r/4 even though this setup slightly quicker at the moment.
I break before the corner and in a straight line. I definately use the driving as a guide,so I don't believe I wait till the last minute.I may trail where necessary but not as a rule.I don't jump on the throttle but ease in to it,but the red tire happens after braking and before the throttle.
I have been up and down and round about with the brake bias,still to no avail.I start my LSD settings where you suggested for the basic tne and have gonr from there.I don't think I have gone higher than high 20's accel or high teens with decel.Anti-rolls bars,springs dampers have adjust often to see if there's a difference ,camber of course,ride height leave till last as suggested and even then don't slam it but halve it and go from there.Both c63 amg's at the moment are at f/0/r/0.The only setting I haven't delved into to much is toe angle though mI do have neg toe on front wheels at the moment as the car doesn't seem to enjot turning.
I don't have an intermet knowledge for the workings of a car and driving as a whole.Most of what I have learnt and understand have read from you and of course simply driving.Before GT5, I knew where the petrol went maybe a little more.I have quite a bit of c.d.f. so I don't think I am a slouch when it comes to driving nor by any means am I a pro.
I will keep at it,and post what results I have achieved.Thanks very much for your input.Looking forward to your troubleshooting guide.
LSD settings for C63 amg without re-enforcement 9..15..5 brake bias f/2..r/4 I always run brakes low front high rear where I can..READ THAT SOMEWHERE!!!! Tried higher numbers for rear they lock and smoke. 5 or 6 ok though seem to find 4 work nice for me with the set up I have so far.
Have C63 amg with re-enrorcement LSD 12 19 8 Brake bias the same f/2/r/4 even though this setup slightly quicker at the moment.
I break before the corner and in a straight line. I definately use the driving as a guide,so I don't believe I wait till the last minute.I may trail where necessary but not as a rule.I don't jump on the throttle but ease in to it,but the red tire happens after braking and before the throttle.
I have been up and down and round about with the brake bias,still to no avail.I start my LSD settings where you suggested for the basic tne and have gonr from there.I don't think I have gone higher than high 20's accel or high teens with decel.Anti-rolls bars,springs dampers have adjust often to see if there's a difference ,camber of course,ride height leave till last as suggested and even then don't slam it but halve it and go from there.Both c63 amg's at the moment are at f/0/r/0.The only setting I haven't delved into to much is toe angle though mI do have neg toe on front wheels at the moment as the car doesn't seem to enjot turning.
I don't have an intermet knowledge for the workings of a car and driving as a whole.Most of what I have learnt and understand have read from you and of course simply driving.Before GT5, I knew where the petrol went maybe a little more.I have quite a bit of c.d.f. so I don't think I am a slouch when it comes to driving nor by any means am I a pro.
I will keep at it,and post what results I have achieved.Thanks very much for your input.Looking forward to your troubleshooting guide.
- 2,684
- ZEGOLFMAN
- ZEGOLFMAN
- VR6-DUBBERS
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5457853#post5457853
Seems your brakes are set incorrectly and you need to traill brake to the apex.
Seems your brakes are set incorrectly and you need to traill brake to the apex.
Last edited:
- 1,899
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
Seems like LSD decel and brake balance are pretty close. I would play with a few things. You need to get the car to rotate more during turn in.
Below are my opinions and others may have a different perspective, but I believe that you should test every idea that you hear and you will find what works for you.
Front toe - I find that negative numbers directly help mid corner. Don't be affraid to test up to -35.
Rear toe - Big factor in mid corner rotation. I don't often run negative rear on a FR, but on that rare car or two, I have. Test between -25 and +10.
Ride Height - Like I said, test what other tuners believe in. I have been testing more around ride height split. I do not believe that there is one rule of thumb for this (i.e. backwards/highest front/lowest rear), but I have been able to get this to work on some cars. Try playing with raising the front 5 numbers and lowering the rear 5 numbers then test +10/-10 and so on. This may be what this car is looking for.
ARBs can affect mid corner. I have used lower front than rear to get some cars to rotate better.
Camber - I think camber can help or make this problem worse, but I have not been able to get camber alone to completely fix the problem. My current belief on camber is that it makes a small difference and that there is a sweet spot between 2.7 and 3.2 in the front. Test in that area. I am also finding that you can use rear camber to reduce rear grip by lowering it to around 1.0 or 1.5. Could play with that too?
Springs - could try to raise the rear springs and dampers to get an FR to rotate?
Aero? Max out the front and set rear lower?
Below are my opinions and others may have a different perspective, but I believe that you should test every idea that you hear and you will find what works for you.
Front toe - I find that negative numbers directly help mid corner. Don't be affraid to test up to -35.
Rear toe - Big factor in mid corner rotation. I don't often run negative rear on a FR, but on that rare car or two, I have. Test between -25 and +10.
Ride Height - Like I said, test what other tuners believe in. I have been testing more around ride height split. I do not believe that there is one rule of thumb for this (i.e. backwards/highest front/lowest rear), but I have been able to get this to work on some cars. Try playing with raising the front 5 numbers and lowering the rear 5 numbers then test +10/-10 and so on. This may be what this car is looking for.
ARBs can affect mid corner. I have used lower front than rear to get some cars to rotate better.
Camber - I think camber can help or make this problem worse, but I have not been able to get camber alone to completely fix the problem. My current belief on camber is that it makes a small difference and that there is a sweet spot between 2.7 and 3.2 in the front. Test in that area. I am also finding that you can use rear camber to reduce rear grip by lowering it to around 1.0 or 1.5. Could play with that too?
Springs - could try to raise the rear springs and dampers to get an FR to rotate?
Aero? Max out the front and set rear lower?
- 3,131
- IL, USA
- DigitalBaka
- DigitalBaka587
I will be trying out the above with my own C63. The thing is a horrid understeer monster and I seen the same problem lighting up the outside front. Not expecting to get it to go away but if it helps get this yacht to turn I'm in. 👍
Really appreciate the input and advice.Motor City, when testing camber letd say the front first as I did do you have camber on the rear or none.I had none found my fastest cornering at 3.5 front then again with rear testing without front found rear fastest at 2.5.Now would that mean mine camber should be f/3.5r/2.5 or the difference between the both being the sweet spot.
Anyway such much to do,so little time ,will start again with the tune.Thanks guys.
Anyway such much to do,so little time ,will start again with the tune.Thanks guys.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
I never run zero camber... ever! Even an aweful, slow piece of crap in the real world like the Prius is shipped with some camber.
In GT5, I usually like for the rear to have at least 1.8 and the front somewhere higher. But, usually on FF cars I have run down to 1.0 in an effort to get rid of rear traction.
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
It would help greatly if you could provde infomation that'd make it alot easier to pin-point the problem.
Different guys see things in different ways, so certain info will be of more benefit than others - so go info "overload and then I'm sure you will find the answer to your query, and posible some new "ideas" for you to try out / consider for future setups.
If you could provide:
Full suspension / LSD / aero / brake settings
What tyres being used?
Power / weight
Confirm this happens ONLINE - if so, free run or race??
What track(s) this happening on?
The guys that have commented so far know what they're talking about, but to be 100% sure, seeing the above info will help to either confirm or "rule out" possible fixes. It also means others can dial in this (setup) to their car and try it and see for themselves what's happening - which is very helpful.
Taking into account what's been said above, and also not knowing much details about the car. For a FR car to have it's outside front wheel "lighting up", after brake but before throttle - to means this scream in-balance in how the weight of the car is being handled by the setup.
I reckon it should be pretty easily fixed, but without knowing your setup it's almost impossible to give accurate feedback.
The tyre going red means it's under "stress" - but this can be caused by a number of factors.
The solutions offered already are good solutions, but problem still happpens. In a way this is good, it highlights that basic driving "errors" don't seem to be the cause, so we can go straight to the setup (if you could provide it please?).
Your posts don't indicate that you're running "crazy" settings for camber and toe, so I'm presuming this will be down to the springs, roll bars and dampers.
These are weird - sometimes you can look at these and think "hey, yeah - spot on", then drive the car and it's ****ed, likewise, you can set them to levels where you 'think' it'll never work, but it does.
It's probably a mis match of spring, roll bar and damper settings, the C63 has a pretty good weight distribution so there shouldn't be anything running near max or minimum, but sometimes as little as a roll bar being one click "out" can make a huge impact on a setup - possibly the difference between a car being drivable or not.
If you want something "balanced" to start off with, maybe try:
Springs
Fr - 9.5
Rr - 8.5
Dampers
Fr - 5 & 4
Rr - 4 & 4
Roll bars
Fr - 3
Rr - 4
That's kinda a medium strength starting point. If you want something stiffer, try:
Springs:
Fr - 10.8
Rr - 9.6
Dampers:
Fr- 7 & 7
Rr - 6 & 6
Roll bars:
Fr - 2
Rr - 3
Your LSD settings don't seem bad and the camber setting suggested are well within the norm. For a Fr car I'd run some where around 2.2-2.8 front and 1.5-18 rear as a starter.
Without knowing what tyres and power the car is at, toe is a little harder to guess, but negative front and positive rear is at least the right "direction", normally something around -0.10 fr and +0.05-0.15 rear is an "ok" start. But this is heavily dependent on the power of the car and tyres being used.
As Motor city said, ride hieght is a personal thing, for powerful FR and MR car, i'd be tempted to leave it near stock height, rather than "slamming" the car. If high power and lower grip tyres being used, maybe run the rear stock and front end down 3 / 6 /9mm lower. Again, heavily dependent on power and weight.
Let us know the details of your setup and I'm sure someone will "nail it" and sort you out
Different guys see things in different ways, so certain info will be of more benefit than others - so go info "overload and then I'm sure you will find the answer to your query, and posible some new "ideas" for you to try out / consider for future setups.
If you could provide:
Full suspension / LSD / aero / brake settings
What tyres being used?
Power / weight
Confirm this happens ONLINE - if so, free run or race??
What track(s) this happening on?
The guys that have commented so far know what they're talking about, but to be 100% sure, seeing the above info will help to either confirm or "rule out" possible fixes. It also means others can dial in this (setup) to their car and try it and see for themselves what's happening - which is very helpful.
Taking into account what's been said above, and also not knowing much details about the car. For a FR car to have it's outside front wheel "lighting up", after brake but before throttle - to means this scream in-balance in how the weight of the car is being handled by the setup.
I reckon it should be pretty easily fixed, but without knowing your setup it's almost impossible to give accurate feedback.
The tyre going red means it's under "stress" - but this can be caused by a number of factors.
The solutions offered already are good solutions, but problem still happpens. In a way this is good, it highlights that basic driving "errors" don't seem to be the cause, so we can go straight to the setup (if you could provide it please?).
Your posts don't indicate that you're running "crazy" settings for camber and toe, so I'm presuming this will be down to the springs, roll bars and dampers.
These are weird - sometimes you can look at these and think "hey, yeah - spot on", then drive the car and it's ****ed, likewise, you can set them to levels where you 'think' it'll never work, but it does.
It's probably a mis match of spring, roll bar and damper settings, the C63 has a pretty good weight distribution so there shouldn't be anything running near max or minimum, but sometimes as little as a roll bar being one click "out" can make a huge impact on a setup - possibly the difference between a car being drivable or not.
If you want something "balanced" to start off with, maybe try:
Springs
Fr - 9.5
Rr - 8.5
Dampers
Fr - 5 & 4
Rr - 4 & 4
Roll bars
Fr - 3
Rr - 4
That's kinda a medium strength starting point. If you want something stiffer, try:
Springs:
Fr - 10.8
Rr - 9.6
Dampers:
Fr- 7 & 7
Rr - 6 & 6
Roll bars:
Fr - 2
Rr - 3
Your LSD settings don't seem bad and the camber setting suggested are well within the norm. For a Fr car I'd run some where around 2.2-2.8 front and 1.5-18 rear as a starter.
Without knowing what tyres and power the car is at, toe is a little harder to guess, but negative front and positive rear is at least the right "direction", normally something around -0.10 fr and +0.05-0.15 rear is an "ok" start. But this is heavily dependent on the power of the car and tyres being used.
As Motor city said, ride hieght is a personal thing, for powerful FR and MR car, i'd be tempted to leave it near stock height, rather than "slamming" the car. If high power and lower grip tyres being used, maybe run the rear stock and front end down 3 / 6 /9mm lower. Again, heavily dependent on power and weight.
Let us know the details of your setup and I'm sure someone will "nail it" and sort you out
Last edited:
Ok this is what I have 2 C63 AMG's 1 with re-enforcement other without:
With re-enforcement: With out re-enforcement:
RIDE HEIGHT
Fr- 0 Rr- 0 Fr +5 Rr-0
SPRINGS
Fr-11.3 Fr-11.3
Rr-9.1 Rr-8.9
DAMPERS
Fr 8&6 Fr-8&7
Rr 7&6 Rr-7&7
ROLL BARS
FR-4 Rr-2 Fr-2 Rr-2
CAMBER
Fr-1.9 Fr-1.9
Rr-1.2 Rr-1.2
TOE
Fr -0.05 Fr -0.12
Rr +0.20 Rr +0.07
BRAKES
Fr-2 Fr-2
Rr-4 Rr-4
LSD
12 9
19 16
8 5
AERO
Rr 20 Rr 20
TRANSMISSION -set to top speed 180 for both vehicles
Race hard tires
583hp
Weight 1403
pp 566
Grand Valley East
Stage 3 weight reduction
windows
hood
ecu
no engine stage
sports manifold,
sports catalytic
Racing exhaust
Sports intake
Racing Air Filter
Full Transmission though I now notice the without car has both single clutch & sports flywheel & with re-enforcement has single clutch & semi racing wheel.Thought I could hear something screwy with gears and such. First thing I fix.
Have started to tweek the without re-enforcement car except clutch & flywheel will remedy that as soon as I post this.
Free run Grand valley East. NO WEAR & REAL. All this is for the 62nd WRS benz race & I'm don't think I can post run times SPLITS T1-average 19.300 T2 AVERAGE 20.000.
APPRECIATE THE INSIGHT ,ADVICE & HELP FROM ALL.
IF THIS IS OUT OF LINE POSTING ALL THIS BECAUSE I'VE BREECHED RULES MAYBE SOMEONE IN ADMIN CAN DELETE IT TOOT SWEET.
With re-enforcement: With out re-enforcement:
RIDE HEIGHT
Fr- 0 Rr- 0 Fr +5 Rr-0
SPRINGS
Fr-11.3 Fr-11.3
Rr-9.1 Rr-8.9
DAMPERS
Fr 8&6 Fr-8&7
Rr 7&6 Rr-7&7
ROLL BARS
FR-4 Rr-2 Fr-2 Rr-2
CAMBER
Fr-1.9 Fr-1.9
Rr-1.2 Rr-1.2
TOE
Fr -0.05 Fr -0.12
Rr +0.20 Rr +0.07
BRAKES
Fr-2 Fr-2
Rr-4 Rr-4
LSD
12 9
19 16
8 5
AERO
Rr 20 Rr 20
TRANSMISSION -set to top speed 180 for both vehicles
Race hard tires
583hp
Weight 1403
pp 566
Grand Valley East
Stage 3 weight reduction
windows
hood
ecu
no engine stage
sports manifold,
sports catalytic
Racing exhaust
Sports intake
Racing Air Filter
Full Transmission though I now notice the without car has both single clutch & sports flywheel & with re-enforcement has single clutch & semi racing wheel.Thought I could hear something screwy with gears and such. First thing I fix.
Have started to tweek the without re-enforcement car except clutch & flywheel will remedy that as soon as I post this.
Free run Grand valley East. NO WEAR & REAL. All this is for the 62nd WRS benz race & I'm don't think I can post run times SPLITS T1-average 19.300 T2 AVERAGE 20.000.
APPRECIATE THE INSIGHT ,ADVICE & HELP FROM ALL.
IF THIS IS OUT OF LINE POSTING ALL THIS BECAUSE I'VE BREECHED RULES MAYBE SOMEONE IN ADMIN CAN DELETE IT TOOT SWEET.
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
OK - just done a quick test (it's 3:30am here in the UK and I've been testing cars for a race series since 7:30pm last night).... Bear in mind it was a very quick test....plus I was half asleep...BUT..
Something strange with this car... First, here's the spec of my C63
Brand new
1730kgs
SPORTS soft tyres (tested in ONLINE LOBBY @ Nurburgring GP/F circuit)
Everything STOCK apart from:
High rpm turbo
Custom suspension
Only these 2 parts added - car now has 581bhp (still with sports softs tyres)
Suspension:
Everything STOCK, I only changed dampers and roll bars. I tried those figures quoted and was getting the same as you - outside front tyre wear going red (aswell as **** loads of overteer - but it kept me on my toes and stopped me from falling asleep on my wheel ).
So I went the "other" direction - SOFT.
I ended up with this:
Springs (default for custom suspension):
Fr - 6.7
Rr - 5.6
Dampers:
Fr - 3 (ext) & 4 (comp)
Rr - 2 (Ext) & 3 (comp)
Roll bars:
6 & 6
Finally, the front outside tyre stopped going red in every corner and if driven SLOW "in" and progressively "FAST" out, it seemed to help stop the front outside tyre from lighting up.
Car generally felt pretty good (considering it's putting 580bhp through sports soft tyres). Tyre heat & wear were pretty even between all 4 tyres.
But, push it too hard into and around the corners the front outside will start to "glow" slightly red a little, but it 's not the full blown dark red like before.
Try these new settings, then add / experiment with your own toe, camber and LSD settings.
It's way past ZZZZZZZZzzzzz time for me, I'd love to carry on testing (I hate leaving a car 1/2 done) but I'm falling asleep on my keyboard....
Hopefully you will see an improvement with the softer springs and dampers and hard roll bars. Let me know if this has helped at all??
I use a G27 wheel - force feedback 5 and sensitivty "2" & simulation steering. My car was tested with all driving aids turned off and tyre wear on.
Good luck aimgo
Something strange with this car... First, here's the spec of my C63
Brand new
1730kgs
SPORTS soft tyres (tested in ONLINE LOBBY @ Nurburgring GP/F circuit)
Everything STOCK apart from:
High rpm turbo
Custom suspension
Only these 2 parts added - car now has 581bhp (still with sports softs tyres)
Suspension:
Everything STOCK, I only changed dampers and roll bars. I tried those figures quoted and was getting the same as you - outside front tyre wear going red (aswell as **** loads of overteer - but it kept me on my toes and stopped me from falling asleep on my wheel
).So I went the "other" direction - SOFT.
I ended up with this:
Springs (default for custom suspension):
Fr - 6.7
Rr - 5.6
Dampers:
Fr - 3 (ext) & 4 (comp)
Rr - 2 (Ext) & 3 (comp)
Roll bars:
6 & 6
Finally, the front outside tyre stopped going red in every corner and if driven SLOW "in" and progressively "FAST" out, it seemed to help stop the front outside tyre from lighting up.
Car generally felt pretty good (considering it's putting 580bhp through sports soft tyres). Tyre heat & wear were pretty even between all 4 tyres.
But, push it too hard into and around the corners the front outside will start to "glow" slightly red a little, but it 's not the full blown dark red like before.
Try these new settings, then add / experiment with your own toe, camber and LSD settings.
It's way past ZZZZZZZZzzzzz time for me, I'd love to carry on testing (I hate leaving a car 1/2 done) but I'm falling asleep on my keyboard....
Hopefully you will see an improvement with the softer springs and dampers and hard roll bars. Let me know if this has helped at all??
I use a G27 wheel - force feedback 5 and sensitivty "2" & simulation steering. My car was tested with all driving aids turned off and tyre wear on.
Good luck aimgo
Jubby
Premium
- 1,532
- Maine
- jubbyboi617
And in the end... slow down the Tank. Setup is only part of the equation; line and speed matter most. If you're 3-5mph too fast, you'll light 'em up, despite the best setup in the world. The setup varies per track and per person. Some of the above look decent.
- 5,303
- Riverside, Ca
- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Chassis reinforcement is also a great factor in the setting, as it most likely causes understeer.
I appreciate all the input that has been posted.It is really doing my head in.Had a wife who had exactly the same effect.Have taken the advice and suggested settings and put them to use or at least tried.Much thanks.
Highlandor,tried your starter set up and was amazed at the feel and the handling of the car,It dawned on me how different set ups can be.I did find though I wasn't as fast on Grang Valley east as having a stiffer spring set up.
ANYWAY.The red tire.My theory was leaning more towards it was all about my driving skill I could have the same setup take a corner have outside red tire then take it again and not.Not pushing to hard to take the corner had alot to do with it,though my times were slower.Having the red tire didn't seem to dramatically effect the corning or handling,it 's not as though I am really trying to take the corner to fast,and times were faster.Given that the fact that the red tire is there still leads me to believe obviously that grip is being lost.
I have over the last 24hrs started change my theory about the red tire it still has to do with driving skill but changes to the same setup with the transmission is effecting the handling and the times.I knew gearing was impotant to get the most from the vehicle and it's horses.
I don't know how to calculate gear ratio,with the hp,torque,rolling start,tire selection.I did though statr fiddling and changing trying just to keep things even and had success with the handling the fading of the red tire and faster times. The car just SEEMED so much faster,but after a couple of seemly fast laps the car didn't want to stay stable when on ant straight,corning it was fine.It felt like one of the wheels was about to come off till eventually it lost it all together.IDLEING THE WHEEL WAS ROCKING BACK AND FORTH CLICKING CRAZY LIKE IT WAS WHEN DRIVING ON THE STARAIGHTS.I packed in for the evening but when I turned the wheel on today the wheel was doing exactly the same thing sitting there when the game hadn't even started.I thought bloody the wheel has packed it in,but it hadn't the wheel was still in shock from the gear ratio from the night before.
So I believe that the setup has alot more to do with the red tire,more than just my driving skill.
On that though, my C63 AMG is simply being tuned exclusively for Grand Valley East.IT DOES NOT FAIR WELL ON OTHER TRACKS.
Anyone with info on a thread for calculating gear ratios.Or formula of there own.
Highlandor,tried your starter set up and was amazed at the feel and the handling of the car,It dawned on me how different set ups can be.I did find though I wasn't as fast on Grang Valley east as having a stiffer spring set up.
ANYWAY.The red tire.My theory was leaning more towards it was all about my driving skill I could have the same setup take a corner have outside red tire then take it again and not.Not pushing to hard to take the corner had alot to do with it,though my times were slower.Having the red tire didn't seem to dramatically effect the corning or handling,it 's not as though I am really trying to take the corner to fast,and times were faster.Given that the fact that the red tire is there still leads me to believe obviously that grip is being lost.
I have over the last 24hrs started change my theory about the red tire it still has to do with driving skill but changes to the same setup with the transmission is effecting the handling and the times.I knew gearing was impotant to get the most from the vehicle and it's horses.
I don't know how to calculate gear ratio,with the hp,torque,rolling start,tire selection.I did though statr fiddling and changing trying just to keep things even and had success with the handling the fading of the red tire and faster times. The car just SEEMED so much faster,but after a couple of seemly fast laps the car didn't want to stay stable when on ant straight,corning it was fine.It felt like one of the wheels was about to come off till eventually it lost it all together.IDLEING THE WHEEL WAS ROCKING BACK AND FORTH CLICKING CRAZY LIKE IT WAS WHEN DRIVING ON THE STARAIGHTS.I packed in for the evening but when I turned the wheel on today the wheel was doing exactly the same thing sitting there when the game hadn't even started.I thought bloody the wheel has packed it in,but it hadn't the wheel was still in shock from the gear ratio from the night before.
So I believe that the setup has alot more to do with the red tire,more than just my driving skill.
On that though, my C63 AMG is simply being tuned exclusively for Grand Valley East.IT DOES NOT FAIR WELL ON OTHER TRACKS.
Anyone with info on a thread for calculating gear ratios.Or formula of there own.
Motor City was leaning towards my driving skill being the sole problem but Have since changed my mind,there is a solution in the setup.Transmission...I don't think it is the ABSOLUTE cure.Driving is obviously still a facter but maybe not as much as I thought.
- 4,803
- Dearborn, MI
- MotorCtyHamilton
I don't think I was hinting at changing your driving style at all. Your driving style is yours. I was thinking that you need to match the tune better to your driving style. My tunes built for me have really agressive turn in and for testers who tend to brake earlier, the car is too loose for them at the lower entry speed. I'm flying the car down to the apex and asking the tires for both side bite (turn in) and forward bite (braking) at the same time.
Didn't at all think you were hinting at changing my style.It' my ability to drive ANY STYLE that is the issue. Just appreciate the help.
- 2,385
- Retired to a padded cell
- GTP_Padded_Cell
- Microsoft sucks..
Yeah, no worries - you're not going to see the benefit of my setup when racing with tyre wear off.
As an experiment, turn tyre wear ON, then do 15 laps on each setup and then it'll be obvious
It'd help if you run (-) toe front and (+) toe rear, maybe as Motor city suggested a wee bit more camber on the front than rear. Chuck in a good LSD setting, leave ride height stock and then I think you'll be pretty happy with the Merc on most tracks (considering it's not really known as a great online race car, and it's a big 'ol saloon, not a sports or supercar).
My setups aren't about speed, most guys will (over a "best" single lap) be faster, but race tyre wear on and start racing longer distances then it'll be a different story.
My setups are about stability and consistency - because these are two factors that are important in the online racing I do, and most of my friends do. So this is what I "tune" to as the general feedback is that at the end of the race, the car is still balanced and lapping consistently, your loosing alot less time than before on the "last laps" of your tyres "life".
Hope some of what I done might be of help with other car(s) in the future...
Best of luck with your race 👍
H
i also just started noticing this problem on some of the cars I have, most notably the 06 s2000. I've tried altering the LSD settings, dampers, ARBs to no avail. This is really an annoying problem as it is a sign that the car is pushing too much and losing traction.
What I will do when I have time is have one of my best Bspec drivers run the car at the max and see if it happens when he drives it. At least that will take my driving skills (lack thereof) out of the equation.
What I will do when I have time is have one of my best Bspec drivers run the car at the max and see if it happens when he drives it. At least that will take my driving skills (lack thereof) out of the equation.
