GT4 Online Racing: My Problems Clarified

JohnBM01 · May 26, 2004

GTPlanet, I'll come clean on online gaming. As you may know, Gran Turismo 4 will feature online play. It will mean that people will be able to connect their lines to play against others. But in the GT4 thread, I've felt like I'm not really turned on by online play. Well, I'm going to come clean as to why I don't really care for online racing.

I never said I hate online racing. And if so, I never meant it. My primary issue is that I feel that games have been given high ratings all because the online play is second to none. It could be said about Half-Life Coutner-Strike, Unreal Tournament, HALO, Quake 3 Arena, SOCOM, and such. To me, a game isn't made better because it can be played online. And I don't think that taking a fight to someone online won't do anything to help make things better. I think a game has to be good in the first place before mentioning online play. I mean, you look at the entire PS2 EA Sports lineup last year. Every EA Sports game could be played online from Madden to NASCAR, and then this year, every EA Sports game could be played online for the XBOX. I mean, I just hate judging a game as good just because it has online play. If the action takes some getting used to and has some confusing levels and action, just because you have co-op or something doesn't mean the game is exceptional. Because that means that both you and your clique will be screwed if they don't know what to do either.

My primary issue is that, I don't want to see GT4 as being a better game because you can race against someone across the street or in another state or country. GT4 is a good game because of all the effort PD put into the game. Seeing it as a source of LAN-party mania and care more about online play than the game. I like online play; I just won't be online playing it. And I'm not going to like it because it has an online mode. So that's why I'm so "opposed" to online play, as it relates to GT4. It's more of money, equipment, plus I want to play the game and not just love it for online play. So GTP, I've come clean. Now you know.

Arwin · May 26, 2004

Thank you for being so honest. I'm pretty sure that there are a decent amount of people out there like you (SL comes to mind) who are not waiting or excited about GT4 going online.

I'm of complete opposite ilk. I have played a lot of online racing games already and by now most people know I'm an avid GT3 iLink abuser, last year I probably had about 8-10 iLink parties with full grids (i.e. 6 humans battling it out live) and I think the joy of the game is increased tenfold when driving with and against real people.

In the end most games will eventually bore you, but the ever evolving human opponents continue to be a challenge year after year and the already significant lifespan of a deep deep game like GT will be extended right up to its next release thanks to its online play.

The game you mention, John, didn't get a high-ranking just because they had online play, but because they had great online play, in many cases far better than its single player counterpart. For EA Games a similar thing goes - many of its games were already good, and while most of their yearly updates feature some interesting improvements, these have been small compared to the whole new element an online feature brings along.

HI almost always beats AI, as there are millions of degrees out there, from totally unpredictable newbies to vicious bashers, to super clean drivers, regular drivers, fasties, plain unbeatables. The best part is, you can pick who you want to drive.

To any skeptic I say try it once, at least.

Mr P510 · May 26, 2004

I'm not buying the game for online play,but I will try it out and probably enjoy it.The main reason I'm interested in the online side of things is to hopefully download extra content if possible.When I try racing online I will strive to be of the super clean fair type of driver.If everyone adopted this approch online racing will be enhanced for everyone.

Nasadus · May 26, 2004

I see Online mode as an extra option,i am not buying the game for it.I would buy GT 4 anyway.The thing is,after you played GT 4 for about a year it won't be any fun driving against the A.I anymore,that's what the Online mode is for.To extend a game's lifespan.As Arwin said it,it's much more fun to drive against real people(fair drivers that is).Seeing as most upcoming games have an online option it wouldn't help GT 4 if it didn't have an online feature.It's becoming a standard,and without it GT 4 would get a lower rating from various websites and magazines and most of all the poeple that play the game.

vat_man · May 26, 2004

It's just another aspect to the game, and you'd be surprised how much of a difference going up againt flesh and blood opponents instead of an AI you can generally get the hang of pretty quickly. Anyone who's played Formula Ford on-line in TOCA Race Drive with well behaved competition will know what I mean.

That said - it won't be the main focus of GT4, although from what I've heard it's the main source of the delays.

code_kev · May 26, 2004

John, online play is brilliant, pgr2 would have gathered dust AGES ago if the online play wasn't so good. Racing real people, and being able to taunt them afterwards is just great! Online play makes games BETTER. Roll on GT4 online, I'll be buing an adaptor to use it!

KSaiyu · May 26, 2004

I can't wait for it, the idea of racing online on any of the tracks (especially SS R11

) with any of the cars (hopefully we can use presaved tuning settings) is just my kind of heaven.

Eagle · May 26, 2004

I'm deeply Pro OLR for GT4. I echo almost all of Arwin's sentiments. Games aren't made or broken by their online play - the game itself has to be good and worth playing. In the case of Counter Strike, Half Life was an excellent game, one of the best of it's era by far. People then use these games as a means to an end. That's what mods are all about - changing the content of a game so it's fresh and new. I only played Deus Ex through about 4 times, but I played daily online for over 3 years. People are far more interesting than bots will be for a while yet.

MadduckUK · May 26, 2004

for a LONG time, the day you can take the piss out of a bot for losing as he has to buy you a pint is the day the world goes mad(der)

evanl85 · May 26, 2004

I think that adding online play will add a LOT of replay value to GT4. I understand where John is coming from though, he just doesn't want the game half-assed because PD thinks they can get away with just throwing online play in. I doubt they'd do that, online play is just there to ADD to the experience, at least in GT4 anyway.

oruji · May 26, 2004

I agree with arwin the game has to be good to begin with. For me though, other than the obvious fact that you can play against other human, PD can really add cool other features. For example if the used car can be bought and sold online as an auction using game money.

GTXLR · May 26, 2004

I really dont think you need to worry about the one player game being anything less than superb, as PD no that probably no more than 10% of people who buy the game will take it online.

It is being developed with over 200 championships to race in, it will have arcade mode, and if they have any sense will feature an event generator.
combine that with the 500plus cars and 50 plus tracks you will have an immensley deep long lasting game.
The only thing that needs serious attention over previous Gt is obviously the AI, and im sure PD will be able to implement a better AI than GT3, although im not sure weve seen it Yet!

For Me Online will be the Icing on the cake of such a varied and immense game.
Ive Been a motorsport fan for well over 20 years and have been a Racing game fanatic since i first got my Atari VCS way back when it was first released.
Since then Ive had racing on ZX spectrum, Commodore 64, Amiga, Sega, Pc upto Gp3, and playstation 1 & 2, I must have played well over 100 racing games.
And apart from once going to a GT3 Party for I link, have never had the chance to race a whole field of Real people, all driving there own style and lines.
The prospect of now when i feel like it being able to switch on a race with a group of like minded racers, has me extremely excited after waiting over 25 years for the technology to allow me to do so.

However I will fully enjoy the game offline, and play it through, I will then be able to practice offline or just have a quick blast on arcade when i have half hour with nothing much else to do, then when i feel like it ill be able to connect and take on real people.
Gt already has many dimensions, Online will just take it that one step further.

Bring it on!

Dave A · May 26, 2004

I have to say, I would buy GT4 without online play, but if the online part of the game is good, that will be the most used part of the game for me. Online will be the most competetive, and most fun aspect as long as there is little to no lag and you can use your simulation mode cars in it not just Arcade mode cars like in GT3's i-link. But I do feel that it's more important for PD to get the single player game just right as thats where you will be tuning and buying, selling, winning prize cars ect. And just because we can race against real inteligence online doesn't mean PD should forget about improving the AI in single player, that is one of the most important things PD needs to get right.

pimp racer · May 26, 2004

Originally posted by JohnBM01
GTPlanet, I'll come clean on online gaming. As you may know, Gran Turismo 4 will feature online play. It will mean that people will be able to connect their lines to play against others. But in the GT4 thread, I've felt like I'm not really turned on by online play. Well, I'm going to come clean as to why I don't really care for online racing.

I never said I hate online racing. And if so, I never meant it. My primary issue is that I feel that games have been given high ratings all because the online play is second to none. It could be said about Half-Life Coutner-Strike, Unreal Tournament, HALO, Quake 3 Arena, SOCOM, and such. To me, a game isn't made better because it can be played online. And I don't think that taking a fight to someone online won't do anything to help make things better. I think a game has to be good in the first place before mentioning online play. I mean, you look at the entire PS2 EA Sports lineup last year. Every EA Sports game could be played online from Madden to NASCAR, and then this year, every EA Sports game could be played online for the XBOX. I mean, I just hate judging a game as good just because it has online play. If the action takes some getting used to and has some confusing levels and action, just because you have co-op or something doesn't mean the game is exceptional. Because that means that both you and your clique will be screwed if they don't know what to do either.

My primary issue is that, I don't want to see GT4 as being a better game because you can race against someone across the street or in another state or country. GT4 is a good game because of all the effort PD put into the game. Seeing it as a source of LAN-party mania and care more about online play than the game. I like online play; I just won't be online playing it. And I'm not going to like it because it has an online mode. So that's why I'm so "opposed" to online play, as it relates to GT4. It's more of money, equipment, plus I want to play the game and not just love it for online play. So GTP, I've come clean. Now you know.

Damn i didnt know they were gonna have that online thing i need to start paying attention more. :lol:

Anyways I agreee with you a game has to also be good when playing offline and probably the only reason i would wanna play online might be so i can play against some of the https://www.gtplanet.netmembers.https://www.gtplanet.net

livemusic · May 26, 2004

I started to play online games last year when I got my comp.
And man does a game change when it has online play. Its a totally different experience to play against real people, doesnt matter if it is a racing game, a fps or whatever...

I would buy GT4 even without online play, the simulation mode is the most important aspect of the game to me. But I am buying a NA soon mostly because of GT4. Cant wait to race you guys

Dr. Bojangles · May 27, 2004

i would def. still get it without online, but the online is gonna be my primary source of entertainment, i mean i bought SOCOM like 6 months ago, and ive beaten like only 5 one player missions, but i play online like nonstop, playing against people definately makes it more fun.

Do you think they will have a headset option for online? Cuz that makes life easier.

Eagle · May 27, 2004

Hmm... As long as you have the option to turn it off. It'd be great to scream at some people in the middle of a race and laugh along at the action, but you're always going to wind up with n00bs abusing the system. So long as there's a mute function, bring on the headsets.

Keyboard support might be a nice addition too - they've got a generic USB printer driver, they can add a generic USB keyboard driver surely.

kart racer · May 27, 2004

I am also one of the many that feel that on line play is a bonus to the game.I will try the on line but will buy it because it's GT4.

JohnBM01 · May 27, 2004

Hey, Kart Racer! Long time no see!

Anyhow, now you know about my thoughts about online play. I don't think many people actually do something and talk about why the person feels that way. I had to tell at one point or another. Now, don't think that I think GT4 will be garbage. The reason why I complained about online play was for the reasons specified. This relates to not just GT4, but almost ANY online game. I said I like online gaming as a concept. You know, playing someone that's not the computer. Then playing against others can be fun as well. My only problem was that, will GT4 sell more because of online play? Will Game Informer give it a 9.50/10 (or better) because of the online option? Will "X-Play" give it 5 out of 5 with online play as the striking feature?

Because like I said, I have NCAA Football 2004, the first online-compatible game I have for my PS2. If I wanted to play college football online on my PS2, I know that the game is fun. But I wouldn't want to buy it because online play is there. So, that's my conflict and clarificaiton.

kart racer · May 27, 2004

Hi John,I'll be in and out for a while as I have not gotten the computer set up at my new home.I'm over at the ex's taking care of the kids.I will be back on line in about 2 weeks.

I respect your views on the online thing, but I was looking forward to race with you online.just for fun with some classic cars. (stock of corse)What do you think?

p.s you like my new avatar?

JohnBM01 · May 27, 2004

You said you recently turned 41? Happy belated birthday and nice Avatar. But, naw... I don't know if I'll be out racing the cars all over New York or Hong Kong like I've died (young) and gone to Heaven. The online play concept is fun, but I think I'm going solo at home. Maybe even play against a few buddies with 2-players.

Eagle · May 27, 2004

How about I play in John's stead? As long as he doesn't mind delegating, you could be like a team patron or something

kart racer · May 28, 2004

Cool with me,looking forward to try my skill against anyone.

JohnBM01 · Jun 17, 2004

As an update to this thread, here are two cases in which online gaming is NOT a medium for better games. I don't know what the game was, but this XBOX game had Mechwarrior-style action against you and another player online. There was this 100 or 200 dollar control set you could buy for it, and it also had some crashing and lag issues online. So X-Play gave the game "2 out of 5." Then you have Sega GT Online, another XBOX game. Was an alright game, dated graphics and all. I don't think there were a lot of contests to deal with in the game, so X-Play gave this one a "3 out of 5."

I will release a topic in the future that will further extend what problems I have with online gaming IN GENERAL. This topic is for GT4, but I want to talk overall in this upcoming topic. So anyhow, I like online gaming. Just that, I don't do it. I like the concept. Without online gaming, people would have to travel to your house to play a game, and even split-screens can be confusing. So for GT4, I'd have to imagine how racing will go online. PD and Sony will have to pull some tricks to make a multitude of online events. I mean, I don't want to go online to make it to 100%. I see this as a special feature and nothing else. It shouldn't be a mode to reach 100% percent. Don't make things like Syphon FIlter: The Omega Strain, in which I heard it's too tough for single play, so most of the game will have to be online. Well, there's my reply. What's yours?

yeti · Jun 17, 2004

I'm not going to be able to play online GT4... Which saddens me slightly... I will still enjoy playing the game in single player and will look forward to playing 2 player with some buddy's and possible a bit of Ilink action in the future...

But I will be mega pissed off if I HAVE to play Online to get all the cars or all the tracks or all the licences... As John said it should be an optional extra not something that replaces Single Player mode.

I can see where John's argument is coming from about games getting better scores cos they have good online aspects... For Example... would PGR2 have been so widely acclaimed as the Xbox's best racer if it didn't have online? Or would it have been just another arcade racer.

C.

psychedelic · Jun 17, 2004

Online option is something that must be in a good game... Only as an option!! The game itself must be a good game, without the online option. I'm sure that GT4 would be the best racing game even without online option.
I think that online gaming will make GT4 the best racing game ever!!

TheCracker · Jun 17, 2004

psychedelic
Online option is something that must be in a good game... Only as an option!! The game itself must be a good game, without the online option. I'm sure that GT4 would be the best racing game even without online option.
I think that online gaming will make GT4 the best racing game ever!!

Agreed, GT4 will be the best racer to date, but the online racing must be in it (and done well) for GT4 not to be left behind. I won't be playing GT4 online for the forseable future, but having once played NASCAR 03 on a PC online, with a decent force feedback wheel, i can tell you its very close to the real thing, certainly more than i've ever experienced on GranTurismo, and all down to the fact that you are racing a whole field of 'real' people - it makes a big difference.

SkylineObsession · Jun 17, 2004

I really have no interest at all in playing GT4 online as the offline part has kept me entertained since 1998 or earlier.

Even if i could afford to go online i'd put an awful lot of thought into the matter to see whether it is a worthwhile investment or not.

And i've never played any game online before apart from some of the ones in MSN Messenger.

code_kev · Jun 17, 2004

mustang man, if your basing online play on MSN games I pity you, it's like judging all racing games on atari karts for the jaguar mw ahahaha

TheCracker · Jun 17, 2004

I agree with Mustang-Man - i'can't see myself playing GT4 online for a good while yet, if at all. Not because i don't want to, so much as i think you can get plenty out of the game in single player mode. Also the cost of a broadband connection in the UK is still quite expensive(£18per month, i presume its even more so in New Zealand). If you were to subscribe to broadband to only play GT4 than you would certainly have to think seriously whether you are so desperate to play GT4 online.

GT4 Online Racing: My Problems Clarified

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