Ladies and gentlemen, the end of an era.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Well, it seems that as of the 2005 model year, the number of all-wheel drive alternatives to SUVs has decreased significantly: the Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country's all-wheel drive system, which debuted in 1991, has been discontinued, probably because of the popularity of SUVs.

That brings all-wheel drive rivals to midsize SUVs down to five: Chevrolet Venture, Pontiac Montana, Subaru Outback, Toyota Sienna, and Volkswagen Passat.

This might not seem like the end of an era, but Duke and I and anyone who's ever shopped for a used Caravan knows it is.

👎

boombexus · Jun 6, 2004

All good things must come to an end.

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

What about the Audi Quattro wagons?

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by Sage
What about the Audi Quattro wagons?

Are you mad? Have you seen the prices on those things? You can get a midsize SUV with more power, stuff, and room for thousands less.

Anyway, there's really just one non-SUV competitor in that segment, the Subaru Outback - the three minivans (Venture, Sienna, and Montana) are rare with AWD, and the Passat, at $26100, is more expensive than most of the segment.

All good things must come to an end.

Not Law & Order. Why can't the Caravan AWD be more like Law & Order?!

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power
Are you mad? Have you seen the prices on those things? You can get a midsize SUV with more power, stuff, and room for thousands less.

Well, they're still competitors, but expensive competitors… Else, would they only be competing against themselves?

I want a new Outback. 250 hp is a yums yums (165 is not yums yums, especially when going up the grapevine).

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by Sage
Well, they're still competitors, but expensive competitors… Else, would they only be competing against themselves?

No. The premium wagons compete against the premium SUVs, like the RX330, and against themselves - and there's a lot of premium wagons to compete against, many of which have all-wheel drive. But they're not midsize competitors. Pay attention, you freaking desert plant.

Incidentally, I love it how the moderators flock to this thread. Oh yeah, blame M5Power. I bet you saw the title and thought I was making insensitive comments about Reagan - well, I've already done that in the Rumble Strip, so I didn't think it was necessary to harp on about how he killed the small town and split his party's vote in 1976. Okay?!

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power
Pay attention, you freaking desert plant.

They have Sage in snowy Colorado too. I saw it on Wild America today (they had Pygmy rabbits!).

I bet you saw the title and thought I was making insensitive comments about Reagan [...]

No, I thought you were either selling your CLK or leaving GTP (which would be an odd thing to announce in the CIG forum, but you're an odd person).

Doug, someday I'm going to find you and meet you and have lunch with you. I'll make sure I drive up in an Audi A4, or maybe a Chevrolet Aveo.

Josh · Jun 6, 2004

Boo****inghoo.

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

BTW, what about the Pacifica? It's not much more than the price of the (former) AWD T&C, right?

emad · Jun 6, 2004

I'd like to say the Magnum but that's going to be rear wheel drive, isn't it?
What about the Impreza wagon?

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by emad
I'd like to say the Magnum but that's going to be rear wheel drive, isn't it?

Yeah, but AWD's coming sometime down the road (can't remember off the top of my head when).

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by Sage
They have Sage in snowy Colorado too. I saw it on Wild America today (they had Pygmy rabbits!).

It's not snowy in Colorado (ever been to Lamar?), but I'm leaving for a week and a half there in a few days so I'll be able to say for sure. Actually, I have it co-ordinated perfectly. The Rockies come play the Yankees, I go see all three games. Then they go down to Tampa, I stay in New York. Then we all meet up again for six games in Denver. It's perfect, I'll get to see Matt Holliday, future NL Rookie of the Year. 👍

No, I thought you were either selling your CLK or leaving GTP (which would be an odd thing to announce in the CIG forum, but you're an odd person).

I'm never selling the car. Though I'm considering replacing it when the 2005 model comes out. You know - just to stay current.

Doug, someday I'm going to find you and meet you and have lunch with you. I'll make sure I drive up in an Audi A4, or maybe a Chevrolet Aveo.

Lunch? Let's go to Six Flags! You live a block from it!!

Boo****inghoo.

Another ****ing moderator!!!

BTW, what about the Pacifica? It's not much more than the price of the (former) AWD T&C, right?

But it's an SUV.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by emad
I'd like to say the Magnum but that's going to be rear wheel drive, isn't it?
What about the Impreza wagon?

Actually, no - all-wheel drive's due on both the Magnum and Chrysler 300 in a few weeks (just in time for snowy July!), so basically the era isn't over or even close to it. Impreza's too small.

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power
It's not snowy in Colorado (ever been to Lamar?), but I'm leaving for a week and a half there in a few days so I'll be able to say for sure. Actually, I have it co-ordinated perfectly. The Rockies come play the Yankees, I go see all three games. Then they go down to Tampa, I stay in New York. Then we all meet up again for six games in Denver. It's perfect, I'll get to see Matt Holliday, future NL Rookie of the Year. 👍

Well, must've been snowy there in 1830 or whenever they filmed that show.

Lunch? Let's go to Six Flags! You live a block from it!!

Click to expand...

20 miles. And what if a brain blood vessel explodes? I wouldn't trust you to re-life me.

RandomHero · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power

This might not seem like the end of an era, but Duke and I and anyone who's ever shopped for a used Caravan knows it is.

👎

Since when do you need a used Caravan.

Klostrophobic · Jun 6, 2004

All things must pass.

Thankfully.

Firebird · Jun 6, 2004

You can also blame "Stow'n'go".

The wells for the seats gobbled up the space the driveshaft and rear diff previous used.

That coupled with the fact that a very minuscule fraction of Chrysler minivans were ordered with AWD.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by Sage

20 miles. And what if a brain blood vessel explodes? I wouldn't trust you to re-life me.

Good point, I hadn't considered that.

Since when do you need a used Caravan.

I don't. Which is why I didn't lump myself in with that group. Duh?

That coupled with the fact that a very minuscule fraction of Chrysler minivans were ordered with AWD.

I know. But if they had told me they were going to cancel it, I would've ordered one with it.

I find it rather interesting that just as Chrysler cancels AWD after 13 years and weak sales, Toyota feels it's necessary to give the Sienna AWD - you'd think they could learn from Chrysler's experiment that people really aren't interested.

RandomHero · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power

I find it rather interesting that just as Chrysler cancels AWD after 13 years and weak sales, Toyota feels it's necessary to give the Sienna AWD - you'd think they could learn from Chrysler's experiment that people really aren't interested.

Oh but the average citizen is interested, just what are they going to do when two or possibly one wheel won't cut it in daily driving on normal streets. They can't possibly risk the loss of traction that is going on.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by RandomHero
Oh but the average citizen is interested, just what are they going to do when two or possibly one wheel won't cut it in daily driving on normal streets. They can't possibly risk the loss of traction that is going on.

If the normal average citizen was interested, Chrysler wouldn't be cancelling it, Pontiac would have it in more vans, and Chevrolet would use it in more trim levels. The truth is, anyone who wants AWD security and minivan size buys an SUV, about 99% of the time.

boombexus · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power

Not Law & Order. Why can't the Caravan AWD be more like Law & Order?! [/B]

It's over Doug. Just let it go. Let it go.

Klostrophobic · Jun 6, 2004

Do we really need 18 different versions of the Caravan AWD?

I mean, do we even need one? I hate minivans more than I hate SUVs. Ten times more, in fact.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by boombexus
It's over Doug. Just let it go. Let it go.

I should just let it go, but I can see you, your brown skin shining in the sun - you've got your hair pulled back, smiling at everyone. And I can tell you my love for you will still be strong after the boys of summer have gone.

Man, Don Henley was a ****ing genius.

Do we really need 18 different versions of the Caravan AWD?

Nope, just one.

Big day against the Royals, eh? This divisional battle is freaking tough. But it's okay, because interleague starts Tuesday and the Yankees drew the easiest opening team possible, they'll take all three. 👍

Klostrophobic · Jun 6, 2004

The Sox are playing the god damned Padres. They'd better win all the games.

Or are they playing the Dodgers? Or someone else?

Don Henley is genius. But the Ataris version of that song is, dare I say it, better. Seriously.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

I heard the Ataris version today at the game - it's weak, and I've heard it before and thought the same thing.

The NL West is so weak, but they have some good teams - though the Giants were pounded today by the Rockies. There's no clear winner in that division, so the AL East (actually, just the Sox and Yankees) should pound the hell out of the entire division - particularly the Rockies and Diamondbacks.

MazKid · Jun 6, 2004

No, the era ended when the MPV All-Sport was cancelled in '98.

They do however have the MPV in Japan with AWD(they also have the Atenza Wagon with AWD) but they both get slower engines(the MPV gets the old 2.5(a wopping 165hp...) and the Atenza only gets the 2.3).

I live near a Six Flags too Doug. Big freggin deal. I don't care for the place.

1X83Z · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by MazKid
No, the era ended when the MPV All-Sport was cancelled in '98.

Obsolete cars get cancelled all the time, that was the end of nothing.

I live near a Six Flags too Doug.

Not Magic Mountain!

producepete · Jun 6, 2004

Well Subarus will always offer AWD if not any other drivetrain.

Sage · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power
Not Magic Mountain!

I do! Oh yeah, you knew that.

Douglas, you're never on AIM anymore. Well, let me rephrase that… You still ******* have me ******* blocked, you ******* ******.

High-Test · Jun 6, 2004

Originally posted by M5Power
Big day against the Royals, eh? This divisional battle is freaking tough. But it's okay, because interleague starts Tuesday and the Yankees drew the easiest opening team possible, they'll take all three. 👍

well, not on topic or anything, I wouldn't be surprised If our KC royals don't score more than 9 points between the three games. :rolleyes:

Ladies and gentlemen, the end of an era.

1X83Z

boombexus

Sage

1X83Z

Sage

1X83Z

Sage

Josh

Silent Army

Sage

emad

Sage

1X83Z

1X83Z

Sage

RandomHero

Klostrophobic

Firebird

1X83Z

RandomHero

1X83Z

boombexus

Klostrophobic

1X83Z

Klostrophobic

1X83Z

MazKid

Powered by 2 BP-ZE Mazdas

1X83Z

producepete

Sage

High-Test

Go Taylor's Boyfriend!

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