DSJ: Vol 8 - '04 Amuse S2000 Street Version

Boundary Layer

Boundary Layer

navigating a sea of fools
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GTP_Brent
Welcome to the Drift Settings Journal!

dsj80im.jpg


Here we will thoroughly examine the handling characteristics of various cars in Gran Turismo 4 with the primary focus of the discussion set on their potential as a drift machine. The discussion will remain open for as long as people wish to add input, but a new subject car will be selected on a bi-weekly basis based on the results of a nomination thread.

I don't intend to impose a heavy structure on the conversation. Basically, you're open to post any observations, feedback, or settings for the car that you wish (provided that it is constructive and drift related). Drift it how you want, where you want and let us know your thoughts and about your tuning process and tactics.

I would like for this discussion to be a way of discovering new tuning methods and styles from others. Hopefully it will also become a place to openly talk about drift related handling problems of the current topic car and learn how others have compensated for such short-comings.

If you have any suggestions with regard to how this idea may be made more succesful, please PM them to me.


The subject car for this volume as selected by the forum in the nomination thread is:
Subject Car: '04 Amuse S2000 Street Version
  • May be purchased from Amuse (Tuner Village) for 50 000 Cr.

Let the drift settings discussion begin.​
 
This is a popular car choice and it comes with buckets of oversteer at the time of purchase. I'm hoping this makes for an interesting discussion and gets a lot of response.

I have some settings already made up. As soon as I get my race game loaded onto my mem card (these settings actually began as race settings) I'll copy them out and post them up.

edit:
On second thought, I'll construct new settings. My race settings adapted to drifting are too unforgiving for a majority of people, and have considerable snapback. You pay a big price for a slight wheel off or steering bobble.
 
well, i have some settings.
go buy the car, put some n1 or n2 on it, then dorifto. its great on xlink.

i havent any settings for a modded amuse s2k, but id like to see what others come up with.
some observations ive made..(via xlink on n2's)
it loves to drift. can get sideways, and nail some tough and long corners for only having 260 hp. IE, both double apexes on midfield 2, the double on apricot, if you get the line right you can link the last half of autum ring 2 made up of 2 double apexes back to backwith a 90* right and a left 180. can also go up or down the 280* corner.
 
Suzuki
well, i have some settings.
go buy the car, put some n1 or n2 on it, then dorifto. its great on xlink.
Click to expand...

I agree on this one, I really can't say I want to change anything on this car.. it's very easy to drift as it is.

Note:
- With some ballast at the front it's even smoother, and a bit more "friendly"
- Add a tight LSD (30/40/30 or higher) if it's still too hairy for your tastes on power-off. Since this car is naturally loose, it responds really well to LSD tuning...
 
bah! you guys just don't know how much better the car could be :sly:


BL's Notes (beware, very long post)
All testing done using the DFP


Purchases:
’04 Amuse S2000 Street Version
Oil change ~267 hp
Enkei 020 rims
Racing Suspension​

Test: Grand Valley Speedway

Setting Changes:
Aids off​

Observations:
too unstable for feinting consistently.
excellent braking and lift-off technique.
Does not need to be lightened, imo (already 1190 kg).
I want slightly more engine response (with NA tuning – no turbos!), and quicker shifts to help control drifts.
S3 tires, although they will slip quite easily, are too grippy for this car – causing some snapback. Going to try S1’s.​

Purchases:
P&P, Engine Balancing = 284 hp
TR Clutch, FL LSD (help stabilize entry later on), FC Tranny (a must)
S1 Tires​

Comments:
this setting may end up requiring more power than my usual settings do if I keep it on S-type tires​

Test: Grand Valley Speedway
begin tuning for balance and consistency​

Observations:
This amount of power is just enough to maintain a 2nd or 3rd gear drift. Change gearing slightly (for more accel) and see how I feel.
Snapback seems to be reduced significantly by slippier tires.​

Setting Changes:
Tranny trick – final to 3.700
Going to adjust lsd decel to stabilize entry before attacking ride height and spring rates.
LSD Decel 20 -> 45​

Observations:
Car has much more balanced turn-in. Still slight lift-off, but now it feels like a trait I can use and not one to beware of. Good to know that I can easily create more lift-off later (if I want) by reducing LSD Decel
I need a brake balance controller – too much rear bias right now.​

Setting Changes:
Begin adjusting ride height/spring rate - I like to leave 10mm above lowest possible height (just habit, but it works well for me)
Ride height 70-70 (from 80-80)
Springs 11.0 – 10.1 (from 9.6-8.8)​

Observations:
Slight oversteer on entry, gets stronger as corner progresses.
Nimble feeling car – little worry about making sharper-turn in. I do want it easier to maintain a high angle drift though. Current power feeling more and more insufficient the harder I try to push.​

Setting Changes:
Front stab to 3 (from 4)
Rear stab to 3 (from 4)
slower lateral weight transition = prolonged drifts
Rear camber to 0 (from 1)​

Observations:
Changes feel quite good.
Slight bit more snapback, but I I don’t much mind.
Car eases into drift nicely, just takes a little getting used to.
Need more power and brake balancer​

Purchases:
Brake Balance controller
NA Stage 1, Chip ~ 324hp​

Setting Changes:
Increased rear spring rate to 10.8, ran some laps, then increased further to 11.5​

Observations:
more power-over. Controlling rotation with accel much easier now.
Car glides out farther after a drift – style thing that I like.
Rear spring to 11.5​

Setting Changes:
Brake balance from 3-3 to 5-3 to try resolve issue I have with spinning out while doing dynamic entry.​

Observations:
Effective change. 4-3 might work at other tracks – but it isn’t enough on turn 1 at GVS.
Noticed car becoming a little jumpier than I like on curbs (due to increased spring rates)​

Setting Changes:
Reduce all aspects of dampers to 7 (from 8)
Reduce front damper settings to increase oversteer entering and exiting
From 7 to 6 (bound and rebound)​

Observations:
Light steering feel, long smooth drifts.
Very ‘flowwy’ car.
This change particularly helped drift the 2nd hairpin, and the duration of the long tunnel with a shallow drift.​

Comments:
I might normally decrease front bound and/or increase rear rebound to promote greater forwad weight transfer under deceleration. This would create more front end grip under turn in and promote lift-off. I not see the need on this car, I can icrease lift off by dropping the lsd decel. No point in creating violent pitchy weight transfer and sloppy response unnecessarily.​

Time to have supper and watch some hockey.

Settings to date:

Parts:
Brake Balance Controller
NA Tune 1, P&P, Engine Balancing, Sports Chip
FC Tranny, TR Clutch, FC LSD,
RC Suspension
S1 Tires (front and rear)​

Brakes:
Brake Balance: 5-3​

Suspension:
Spring Rate: 11.0-11.5
Ride Height: 70-70
Bound: 6-7
Rebound 6-7
Camber 2.0-0
Toe: 0-0
Stabilizers: 3-3​

Transmission
Final Gear: 3.700
used the tranny trick​

Aids:
ASM O: 0
ASM U: 0
TCS: 0​

LSD:
Initial Torque: 10
LSD Accel: 40
LSD Decel: 45​


This car was a large change in mentality for me. Lately, I've been used to taking a car that understeers (ahem... Mustang GT) and just trying to work it to the point that I could generate oversteer on command. This car is different in that it has more than enough oversteer stock, but it has to be managed. Instead trying to create oversteer on turn-in and hoping to be able to maintain it through the drift - for me, this car is about decreasing the oversteer at corner entry and increasing it mid-drft and at corner exit. I wanted to make a car that will hold long drifts with ease.
These settings are still the same balancing act as ever, but the focus is quite different than is was with the Mustang.

A part of this setup that I particularly like is the tire choice. S1's allow for some pretty quick drifts - quicker than I'm used to anyways. Angle has not really been comprimised by the choice either, I've used the tires to try and manage the angle. It's just different from a lot of the settings I've made before. Kinda fun.

I still want to test at a few more tracks to help me decide on an appropriate value for the front camber. I've tested a few values at GVS, and each setting I try feels good in one corner, bad in another.

I'm not quite sold on the spring rates either, but I'll give it a go at another track before I change it any more.

I also have to finish off the LSD settings. I think I'll leave the LSD decel as is at GVS, and just change it as I deem necessary from track to track. The LSD accel could likely be lower to help extend drifts, but I haven't fiddled with it yet. I feel no need to change the initial torque from its current setting.

edit:
It's important to note that I made these settings on the DFP. I just tried them on the DS2 and it still does show lift-off (much moreso than it did for me on the DFP) due to the greater steering speed, I assume. Just something to keep in mind.
 
I like your idea with the front camber. While I was testing the car was a little more comfortable with the front camber somehwere less than 2, but I'm still going to test at a few more courses. I'll keep that suggestion in mind.

The rear camber I am going to leave at 0, I believe. I reduced it to remove a little bit of rear grip during cornering. It helps keep the tail kicked out to extend drifts and take the drift farther to the outside of the track at corner exit for a proper out-in-out line.

👍
 
Well...I had trouble tuning this car. I didn't like it. So I bought another one, tuned it, drifted it. And it was alright. HERE is the video if you want to watch it. The settings are in there too.
 
One question... Why is everyone setting the LSD decel at such a high number?... I would never even begin to try and drift a vehicle in GT4 with anything higher than 25 or so... The car will snap too much on decel (regain grip to dramatically) with such high settings... Also, it's such a light car, that a lower LSD decel setting would be benificial.. Whereas a lot of heavier cars need a bit higher setting to keep them from sliding off the track on decel off situations...

Thoughts?




;)
 
LSD is more of a track by track setting, it's best to tune the LSD for what course you are on, what kind of drift you want/need but, I have to agree with Delphic Reason the car isn't heavy(even without weight reduction), so lower decel, maybe 18 or lower would be best.
 
Delphic Reason
One question... Why is everyone setting the LSD decel at such a high number?... I would never even begin to try and drift a vehicle in GT4 with anything higher than 25 or so... The car will snap too much on decel (regain grip to dramatically) with such high settings... Also, it's such a light car, that a lower LSD decel setting would be benificial.. Whereas a lot of heavier cars need a bit higher setting to keep them from sliding off the track on decel off situations...

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
It's really the easy way of restraining the oversteer on entry.. and for this car, it doesn't seem to trigger much in the way of side effects. At least I haven't noticed it, but I'm possibly not comfortable enough with the DFP to make qualified judgments yet...

Either way, I'm personally using 30/30/25 and the car feels great.. It's tuned to just over 300 HP and running on N2s, though I might try slightly stickier rubber as I've grown to like that when using the DFP ;)
 
DR
Also, it's such a light car, that a lower LSD decel setting would be benificial.. Whereas a lot of heavier cars need a bit higher setting to keep them from sliding off the track on decel off situations...
Click to expand...

Did you drive this car DR? If not, I'd urge you to do so - I think you'll quickly understand.

I gave the car a test drive with the stock LSD settings (10-40-20). On my DFP the car showed extreme lift-off, much more than I care to try and correct with any type of suspension modification (it's in Clio territory). I found it difficult to take down any meaningful obseravations about the car's other behaviours because of it.

I cranked the LSD decel up to 45, and this resolved much of the lift-off
myself
Going to adjust lsd decel to stabilize entry before attacking ride height and spring rates.
LSD Decel 20 -> 45

Observations:
Car has much more balanced turn-in. Still slight lift-off, but now it feels like a trait I can use and not one to beware of. Good to know that I can easily create more lift-off later (if I want) by reducing LSD Decel
Click to expand...

This did not create an extremely snappy car, it created a more balanced car that I could comfortably drift.
My settings are still a WIP, so if I deem it necessary to introduce more lift-off to the car later, I just drop the LSD decel to do so.
 
I tried the car with N1's stock, it was wonderful, and I tinkered with the suspension a bit more. Then I had cranked the Decel to 30, 35, 40...And I had to half - gas it in my drifts so the rear doesn't wash out on me...I'm not comfortable with these cars beings so quick and snappy...
 
This car is pretty good stock. I just threw on som N2's, and adjusted the front camber to 2.7, and rear shock bound/rebound to 9/9. LSD decel to 10. That's it, drifts great.
 
MKthreeGTi
BL - Try your camber angle with

Front - 1.5
Rear - 2.0

Seemed to work for me...
Click to expand...

I did this too when I first starting toying with the car...works great for me. I also set the front springs alittle harder than the rear to get rid of the mass oversteer I was getting. The more I play with this car, the more I like it.👍
 
Boundary Layer
Did you drive this car DR? If not, I'd urge you to do so - I think you'll quickly understand.
Click to expand...

Of course I've tried it... Lift off is something to be used to your advantage, not something to try and fix... Setting the LSD decel at 20 to 25 is more than sufficient... Then again, I drift most MR's, and RR's with ease, so I'm used to such characteristics...




;)
 
Keep in mind that you're a DS2 user, whereas Ske and I are on the DFP. (not sure waht matt and others use) That is probably a large reason for the setting the Decel as high as we have.

I agree that lift-off should be used to advantage. But as I jotted in my notes, I had to set the decel this high to allow myself to use it to advantage. With the decel lower on this car, and drifting it on the DFP, the extreme lift-off was doing more harm than good.

Anyways, different settings for different people.
 
Boundary Layer
Keep in mind that you're a DS2 user, whereas Ske and I are on the DFP. (not sure waht matt and others use) That is probably a large reason for the setting the Decel as high as we have.

I agree that lift-off should be used to advantage. But as I jotted in my notes, I had to set the decel this high to allow myself to use it to advantage. With the decel lower on this car, and drifting it on the DFP, the extreme lift-off was doing more harm than good.

Anyways, different settings for different people.
Click to expand...

Actually I use both the DS2 and the DFP... I have been using the DFP more nowadays... I still feel the decel is way too high to work effectively on this car... Ske has the right idea... I think your's is just a bit too high...

However, I have to admit I'm not a big fan of drifting S2000's... They seem to act more like MR's than most of the MR's... Very odd indeed.. Another flaw in GT4's physics code...




;)
 
Differing tastes, I guess.. I really don't have a problem with very high decel values either, it doesn't seem to make the car more snappy in my opinion.. The only snappiness I get is coming from me not feeling the DFP all that good
 
Ske
Differing tastes, I guess.. I really don't have a problem with very high decel values either, it doesn't seem to make the car more snappy in my opinion.. The only snappiness I get is coming from me not feeling the DFP all that good
Click to expand...

Normally, I would agree... However, raising the LSD decel DOES make the car snappier... Facts are facts... How you handle this is what differs from person to person (throttle control, braking, style)... A lower LSD decel reduces the chances of the car snapping on corner exit... It also lets the car continue to slide (to varying degrees, depending on the setting and weight of the vehicle) on throttle off situations... This is why a higher setting needs to be used on heavier cars (most of the time)...

I tried settings of 20, 25, 40, 45, and 50 (with the DFP)... 25 was almost too strong... 45 made the car nearlly undriftable (without first adding way too much power than is necessary, and being very careful about lifting off mid drift)... Now, the only way I can see higher numbers working, on this car, is if you use a harder tire compound (n1 instead of n2), which would cause you to have to compensate for the slippery nature of the vehicle under said circumstances... I still feel, using a slightly softer compound is a more efficient, and user friendly method of achieving such results...

This car is pretty driftable once you figure out the settings... Still, I just don't find this car fun to drift... I'm not sure why... Some cars are fun to drift, some aren't... I just don't have fun with this car... It just feels like work...

Now, you want to drift a FUN car?... Try the Solstice... Easiest car to drift in GT4... However, that's for another discussion...




;)
 
I've done 22 miles of testing and come up with these preliminary settings.

Parts:
Racing Exhaust
Racing Brakes
Brake Balance Controller
Na Tuning Stage 1
Sports Chip
Fully Customisable Transmission
Triple Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Customisable LSD
Carbon Driveshaft
Fully Customisable Suspension
N2 Tyres
Stage 2 Weight reduction

Settings:
Brakes: 5/9

Suspension:
Spring rate: 9/9.7
Ride Height: 75/75
Damper Compression: 7/8
Damper Rebound: 7/8
Camber: 2.5/1
Toe: 0/0
Stabs: 2/3

Transmission: Auto 10

LSD: 10/30/17

All aids off of course.


Let me know what you think of these settings. I feel that they are good as they allow for a lot of adjustabiliy mid drift. However they are a little snatchy though, and the main issue is running out of power mid corner. Next step will be to buy port polish and balancing and tune from there.
 
Maybe it would be an good idea if everyone posted settings for both DS2 and DFP:idea: (I try to do this but I'm not a huge fan of the DFP for drifting, so most times I don't make any), that way as many users as possible could injoy the car, without having to make settings for them selfs, (this was probably mentioned before, I haven't checked previous DSJ's, sorry in advance).
 

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