DSJ: Vol 11 - '00 Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex SS

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Welcome to the Drift Settings Journal!​


Here we will thoroughly examine the handling characteristics of various cars in Gran Turismo 4 with the primary focus of the discussion set on their potential as a drift machine. The discussion will remain open for as long as people wish to add input, but a new subject car will be selected on a bi-weekly basis based on the results of a nomination thread.

I don't intend to impose a heavy structure on the conversation. Basically, you're open to post any observations, feedback, or settings for the car that you wish (provided that it is constructive and drift related). Drift it how you want, where you want and let us know your thoughts and about your tuning process and tactics.

I would like for this discussion to be a way of discovering new tuning methods and styles from others. Hopefully it will also become a place to openly talk about drift related handling problems of the current topic car and learn how others have compensated for such short-comings.

If you have any suggestions with regard to how this idea may be made more successful, please PM them to me.


The subject car for this volume as selected by the forum in the nomination thread is:
Subject Car: '00 Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex SS Version
  • May be purchased from Used Car Lot 2

Popular car. Let the drift settings discussion begin.​
 
I'll get 86Honda Killer in here, he tuned my S.S. 86 and it drifts great. For some reason, he drifts that better than a stock S15. I'll try and get a different set of settings this time. I'm free all day :)
 
Yeah, the regular Trueno/Corolla is a lot easier to drift... that's why this one is in here ;)

I'm thinking go easy on the power output because it seems very eager to just burn rubber while going nowhere... Another thing that bugs me is the unresponsive steering. Both these issues should have been easy(ish) to correct with LSD tuning but so far I haven't been able to...

The gearbox is another problem area, but not something we can do a lot about.. It's better with a manual though, cause the shifts take ages and you don't want the AI to decide when they happen...
 
Ske
The gearbox is another problem area, but not something we can do a lot about.. It's better with a manual though, cause the shifts take ages and you don't want the AI to decide when they happen...
Click to expand...

That's where I think you are wrong Ske. I thought the same thing right when I tried this car out stock on N1's. It's not the most responsive car and it does want to spin tires, but I got help from my friend (Who will post settings eventually) and his LSD and suspension settings worked wonderful. My suggest to any one that is having problems with the gearbox, take all the gears and move them up (to the right) by 1.00, 2.00, or even 3.00. This will bring them closer together allowing it to be more responsive during downshifts in a drift. 👍 I'm participating in these from now on :D
 
PLmatt91
That's where I think you are wrong Ske. I thought the same thing right when I tried this car out stock on N1's. It's not the most responsive car and it does want to spin tires, but I got help from my friend (Who will post settings eventually) and his LSD and suspension settings worked wonderful. My suggest to any one that is having problems with the gearbox, take all the gears and move them up (to the right) by 1.00, 2.00, or even 3.00. This will bring them closer together allowing it to be more responsive during downshifts in a drift. 👍 I'm participating in these from now on :D
Click to expand...

yeah but that is only with the correct settings i beleive he is talking about stock. for me it did seem like it was getting alot of wheel spin goin no where and seemed to under steer alot i did manage to drift it with a feint motion but it still needs alot of work i dont have anything good enough to post so i guess ill just wait for your friend with the good settings :(
 
road kill
yeah but that is only with the correct settings i beleive he is talking about stock. for me it did seem like it was getting alot of wheel spin goin no where and seemed to under steer alot i did manage to drift it with a feint motion but it still needs alot of work i dont have anything good enough to post so i guess ill just wait for your friend with the good settings :(
Click to expand...
You don't have to supply us with a 'perfect' setup, anything will do. Show us what you've put together so far, talk a little bit about what difficulties you're having with the car/setup. Then others will [hopefully] suggest possible remedy settings or technique tweaks to help you out - they may even build off of your base setings to contruct their own. This is what I initially had wanted the DSJ to be, but recent discussions have veered from this.

You do not have to have a completed setup to contribute to the DSJ's. Your progress to date as well as a decent description of the car's/setup's capabilities and limitations is all that I ask of people.

And who knows.... you might learn something by letting others comment on your progress.


👍 anyways, I'm glad this whole DSJ thing is still attracting the occasional new member to the discussion.
 
road kill
yeah but that is only with the correct settings i beleive he is talking about stock. for me it did seem like it was getting alot of wheel spin goin no where and seemed to under steer alot i did manage to drift it with a feint motion but it still needs alot of work i dont have anything good enough to post so i guess ill just wait for your friend with the good settings :(
Click to expand...

Oh, I just thought he had problems with his settings...

Any ways, I found settings, I'll post them up around 1 or 2. Does any body want to see a video as well?
 
I like this car withoutr a turbo just stage 3 engine N2 tires,but the pause between shifts dose seem kind of long
set dsl to 40 20 20
lowered car to 89 89
tried starging tires n3 front n2 rear but switcing back to n2 all with tires stargered the car front wants to take over when counter steering
 
Okay, to explain the good points about this car stock, there really aren't many besides it could drift. I've probably put in a good 4 - 5 hours tuning this car and drifting it at misc. tracks. Still not the best, but it's a Drifter. I didn't know how to get rid of the understeer that much, but I realized how to set the gears for good take off, shifts and drifts. My buddy 86Honda Killer helped me out by giving me some pointers on the suspension and LSD settings. I worked off of those. They may be a little similar, but I tuned it more to my liking. Here are my settings ::

Horsepower - 235 | Torque - 140

Parts to buy ::
  • Racing Exhaust
  • Stage 2 Turbine Kit
  • Racing Brakes
  • Brake Balance Controller
  • Racing Suspension
  • Full Customize Transmission
  • Triple - Plate Clutch
  • Racing Flywheel
  • Full Customize LSD
  • N2 Tires
  • Rigidity Refresher

Suspension ::
Spring Rate - 9.7 | 8.5
Ride Height - 91 | 90
Shock (Bound) - 7 | 7
Shock (Rebound - 8 | 8
Camber Angle - 2.2 | 0.7
Toe Angle - 1 | 0
Stabilizers - 4 | 4

Transmission ::
1st Gear - 3.610
2nd Gear - 2.424
3rd Gear - 1.627
4th Gear - 1.307
5th Gear - 1.052
6th Gear - N/A
7th Gear - N/A
Final - 4.300
Auto - 8

LSD ::
Initial - 14
Acceleration - 47
Deceleration - 14

Brake Balance Controller ::
Front - 4
Rear - 6

Driving Aids ::
ASM Oversteer - 0
ASM Understeer - 0
TCS Controller - 0

Weight Balance ::
Ballast Weight - 0
Front / Rear Balance - 0
 
PLmatt91
Okay, to explain the good points about this car stock, there really aren't many besides it could drift. I've probably put in a good 4 - 5 hours tuning this car and drifting it at misc. tracks. Still not the best, but it's a Drifter. I didn't know how to get rid of the understeer that much, but I realized how to set the gears for good take off, shifts and drifts. My buddy 86Honda Killer helped me out by giving me some pointers on the suspension and LSD settings. I worked off of those. They may be a little similar, but I tuned it more to my liking. Here are my settings ::

Horsepower - 235 | Torque - 140

Parts to buy ::
  • Racing Exhaust
  • Stage 2 Turbine Kit
  • Racing Brakes
  • Brake Balance Controller
  • Racing Suspension
  • Full Customize Transmission
  • Triple - Plate Clutch
  • Racing Flywheel
  • Full Customize LSD
  • N2 Tires
  • Rigidity Refresher

Suspension ::
Spring Rate - 9.7 | 8.5
Ride Height - 91 | 90
Shock (Bound) - 7 | 7
Shock (Rebound - 8 | 8
Camber Angle - 2.2 | 0.7
Toe Angle - 1 | 0
Stabilizers - 4 | 4

Transmission ::
1st Gear - 3.610
2nd Gear - 2.424
3rd Gear - 1.627
4th Gear - 1.307
5th Gear - 1.052
6th Gear - N/A
7th Gear - N/A
Final - 4.300
Auto - 8

LSD ::
Initial - 14
Acceleration - 47
Deceleration - 14

Brake Balance Controller ::
Front - 4
Rear - 6

Driving Aids ::
ASM Oversteer - 0
ASM Understeer - 0
TCS Controller - 0

Weight Balance ::
Ballast Weight - 0
Front / Rear Balance - 0
Click to expand...

i guess it wasnt really said if we wanted to keep it N\A or not because the putting a turbo in the 86 makes it really easy to drift from just its power
 
I scared myself for a minute by doing some laps on S3's. Not the easiest compound to drift on.

After I got that sorted out by putting on some N2's and I didn't have any problems, aside from the gearing issue that has been brought up.
I did a few laps at DF. That course is bumpier than most, so I'd probably soften up the front end a little bit there [it was hopping and skipping all over the place] - but even so I could run one corner into the next without too much struggle.

I'm actually enjoying this thing on stock settings.... I dunno guys...


Anyways. I'll throw some racing suspension, a FC Tranny and a FC LSD on the thing and see if I can make myself any more comfortable in it.
And I'll try out matt's settings afterwards.
 
hey boundary thats what i was thinking also i put on s3's racing flywheel triple clutch and i went around trial mountain.. i couldnt use a feint entry as i usually would on the second lap i used the braking drift and it worked fine! just like the normal 86 it has a powerful 2nd gear so breaking drift is pretty effective although if someone could show me how to maybe sharpen the turn in we could go from there
 
'00 Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT-Apex SS

Power Mods: Stage 2 Turbine Kit

Parts: Racing Brakes, Brake Balance Controller, Racing Suspension,Triple Plate Clutch, Racing Flywheel, Increase Ridigity, Stage 3 Weight Reduction,Comfort Tires,Full Customize LSD,Full Customize Transmission,

Settings:
Brake Balance - 15(F) / 9(R)
Spring Rate - 9.0(F) / 6.0(R)
Ride Height - 80(F) / 80(R)
Shock Bound - 8(F) / 8(R)
Shock Rebound - 8(F) / 8(R)
Camber - 4.0(F) / 1.5(R)
Toe - 1(F) / 2(R)
Stabilizers - 5(F) / 5(R)



Transmission
1st Gear - 3.292
2nd Gear - 2.265
3rd Gear - 1.663
4th Gear - 1.292
5th Gear - 0.976
Final - 4.300
Auto - 6



all aids Off
 
That's kind of the point. Most people prefer them for drifting.

I won't state this as fact, but just by my own observation there seems to be something odd about the relation between vertical and horizontal grip on S type tires and they don't make for a very comfortable drift car. Very snappy in both feel and appearance.

Not that S tires won't work, but the grippier you make the tires, the more precise your steering has to be, and the more power [in general] you'll have to make to maintain a drift.
 
Progress:

I'd initially said I was going to soften the car because it was hopping all over the place at DF. I took the car to TM [for slightly less bumpiness] and tried it out in small doses. The wheel shook violently over small bumps, during hard braking, and running over curbs during my runs. So, I've gone the other way with some of this setup.

Parts Installed
  • Oil Change, Chassis Refresh
  • FC Transmission, Triple Plate Clutch, Racing Flywheel, FC LSD
  • Racing Suspension
  • N2 Tires F&R
  • Chassis Refresh
Settings
  • Suspension
    • Spring Rate: 12.6 - 10.0
    • Ride Height: 110 - 110
    • Shock Bound: 5 - 6
    • Shock Rebound: 6 - 7
    • Camber Angle: 2.2 - 0.4
    • Toe Angle: 0 - 0
    • Stabilizers: 4 - 4
  • Driving Aids: 0 - 0 - 0
  • LSD:
    • Initial Torque: 10
    • Accel: 34
    • Decel: 10
  • Weight Balance: 0 - 0
Click to expand...
At this point I havent given much attention to the gearing people have complained about. On the contrary, I'm getting used to the car's gearing. The shifts are slow, but the gears are long enough that I haven't had to shift in the middle of any drifts, only during runs down straights. So it hasn't been as handicapping as I at first thought it may be.

I've also not done anything to the brake balance, but it will come.

What else can I say....
I'm still not 100% sold on these damper and spring settings. When I run over curbs it feels less as if I'm controlling the car, and more as if the car is controlling me. I get a considerable amount of vibration through the DFP, and the car wanders slightly from the line I had set it on. It may be overdamped, and it would come as no suprise if the springs are far too stiff for a car of this mass. I'll probably try softer springs again, despite my observations at DF.

This car [with this setup] is very sensitive to small camber angle changes and damper adjustment. It was setting the dampers that really brought this thing to life. If you build off of these settings, be gentle in those areas.

I quit with the setup here because I wanted to check the car again tomorrow and see what my impressions of the springs/dampers are then. Right now I think I've become accustomed to the car too much to improve it any further tonight.
If anyone else would care to test this setup and provide feedback, it'd be appreciated.


[edit]
@Matt - about the understeering you've observed. I feel that your car may be running out of suspension stroke, and that this may be reducing/removing all steering response. On this higher ride height with beefier springs that I'm using I have noticed no understeering at all. Actually, it's excessive oversteeer that I have to be mindful of.

I haven't tested your setup yet. But I will once I feel mine is complete.
[/edit]
 
ooh sounds good i was having fun practicing braking drifts with this car stock but now i will try your settings and its a bit weird cause i have been using soft tires this whole time so i guess i got used to it. but for large exhibition drifts i might have to try out the comfort tires but im used to driving any all cars with soft but i cant wait to check this car out even though i might spin out cause im not used to these kind of wheels..:nervous:
 
I ran for about 1 hour tonight heres what I got
211 hp
lsd 20 49 20
trans auto 9
brake balance 16 16
sr 12.2 9.7
rh 115 116
sb 8 8
sr 8 8
ca 1.7 1.0
t 0 0
st 4 5
I found that lowering the camber and the stablizers gave me less oversteer not only that but made counter steering in a drift more perdictable I am still having trouble keeping the rear end slidding when tring to link drifts I saw boundrys rear camber of -.4 and will try it tommorrow to see if that will help
 
ok finally got around to posting my settings.
First of all the cars problems stock is that to drift you must enter with excess speed and wait to loose it wit any under that may happen.

Exhaust - Racing
N/A tuning - stage 3
Tire type any where from S3 down to N1's
currently using s2 - s1
Brakes - racing
Brake controller - Equip
settings - 5 - 5
Suspension - Racing
settings: Spring rate - 10.4 - 8.2
Ride height: any height is good
Shock bound - 7- 7
Shouck rebound - 8 - 7
Camber Angle - 2.2 - 1.0
Toe Angle - 0 - 0
Stabalizers - 4 - 4
Transmission - Ful customize
settings: 1st 3.314
2nd 2.242
3rd 1.810
4th 1.401
5th 1.136
Final 4.329
Clutch - Triple-plate
Flywheel - Racing
Driving aids -under 0
-over 0
- TCS 0
Limited slip - Full customize
Settings Initial 15
Accel 44
Decel 18
LAUNCH AT: around 5 to 5.5 thousand RPMS
 
finally put a banner up.

@Matt:

I gave your settings a try for about 30 minutes tonight. I really wasn't finding any of the understeer which you were complaining about. ...I suppose if driven head-on into the turn with no prior weight transfer it will understeer, but with a feint it was non-existant.
One wonders though, why you'd set the front ride height higher than the rear if you are bothered by understeering?

I was interested in the feel of your setup. When I was creating my own setup I was continually running into problems when I dropped my spring rate where the car seemed to bounce and jitter uncontrollably as though it were both undersprung and underdamped. However, your setup has both a lower ride height and spring rate setting than mine does and does not experience these phenomena to nearly the same extent as my first few setup attempts. This has caused me to reconsider those aspects of my own setup and wonder if perhaps my prior attempts were hitting on a fluke resonance frequency that was amplifying the car's oscillations. I'm not sure what it was that I was feeling now. I'd like to go softer if possible - maybe I'll give it a shot this weekend for a study break.

I did find it beneficial to remove the front toe that you'd recommended. Doing so generally made the car easier for me to handle - it was more responsive to my inputs and had less of a 'mind of it's own'. With the toe present it'd commonly take off in an undesired direction at corner exit, or at other times where lateral front end weight transfer is occuring.
As well, I believe the high LSD Accel setting made it difficult for me to retain control of the car when it's at it's absolute limit. I'd personally set it lower, but to each his own.

Interesting setup.
 
This car just drifts a bit differently, but this aint a bad drifter at all if you ask me, I finally got the chance to buy it in the used car lot. And I finally TOOK that opportunity too;)

N2's, 300BHP with Stage 2 turbo is my kind of drifting. And this SS Trueno fits it pretty well although it spins tyres more than it propels you forward...
 
hucker696
I ran for about 1 hour tonight heres what I got
211 hp
lsd 20 49 20
trans auto 9
brake balance 16 16
sr 12.2 9.7
rh 115 116
sb 8 8
sr 8 8
ca 1.7 1.0
t 0 0
st 4 5
I found that lowering the camber and the stablizers gave me less oversteer not only that but made counter steering in a drift more perdictable I am still having trouble keeping the rear end slidding when tring to link drifts I saw boundrys rear camber of -.4 and will try it tommorrow to see if that will help
Click to expand...

I have the same problem too
but as a beginner Drifter ... I found that this car is quite hard for me to start and hold a drift .. it just spin out too much ...

not really a beginner drifter car tho:nervous:
 
hey, what I've seen in the first few clips of the BDC, you were doing alright.

I've finally finished my midterm exams, and with DSJ VOl 12 being delayed due to a lack of nominations, this DSJ will be the focus for at least another week. I'll run the car tomorrow and play with the ride height a little more, as I had planned to do previously.
 
hmm.. i dont like the turbo.. it doesn' feel as nice... idk.. its just me.... i thnk but i like to rev high.. and the turbo.. just goes.. blah.. to me.. so n/a for me! 10,000rpm!!👍

you guys have problems with the trueno? strange.. my settings are perfect for me.. (ME)
 
bout time you showed up!

my settings are perfect for me.. (ME)
Click to expand...
Let's see em 👍

I made a few more changes to mine today. Dropped the ride height to 92mm front and rear, took 20% out of the springs, and I'm just now rethinking the dampers.
 
I've played with this car enough I think it's best all stock n2 tires 3 stage engine race clutch flywheel and drive shaft,add a chip,2 weight reductions and go drifting.It kinda cool seeing this car body roll with the stock supention.
 
I drift this car with just the N/A tune up and a sports transmission. I messed around with the camber settings a little and used N3 tires for the car. N2 tires seem low on grip, which is good for show drifts, but this car was made for racing, if you try to do high angle drifts, it just slows down and does a burnout without really going anywhere. It takes a while to get used to the shifting too, you have to hold the car at the redline sometimes and the car should keep gaining speed, if done properly the car shifts just like any other car. Basically very fast and fun car, but takes a lot of trial end error to get it to work properly.
 

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