GTP Historic Group C Championship

OK, let me explain the situation: the series i was running, the AE86 Tour of Asia, has lost people's interest. Now instead of feeling a fool by running a series with no-one turning up, I decided to (once again regretably) stop. But I have bounced back with a new suggestion which ties in with my rekindled liking for Group C sportscars

As the title states, this will be a challenge which takes us back to the 80 and early 90's, where Porsche, Jaguar, Lancia, Sauber-Mercedes, Nissan, Toyota and Peugeot were the order of the day in the World Sportscar Championship. The series will feature all 7 of the Group C cars which were included into GT4. To jog your memory, they are:

Jaguar XJR-9
Nissan R89C
Toyota 88C-V (Minolta)
Sauber Mercedes C9
Mazda 787B
Nissan R92CP
Peugeot 905

The series will visit a number of real-world tracks, including Laguna Seca, Fuji, Le Mans and the Nurburgring. Race lengths have been undecided yet, but they will be announced with the championsip schedule.
To find out the initial performance of the cars, I took each one around La Sarthe 2 to see how fast they were before modifications. The runs were done over 1 lap in Arcade Mode with no aids and R5 tyres. Here is what I found:

1st) Nissan R89C - 2'56.816
Comments: The car tops out at just about 230mph on Mulsanne, but it hovers around 225-230mph because of the bumpy nature. The grip on the rear is good, since there is no wheelspin in 2nd gear.

2nd) Toyota 88C-V - 2'57.848
Comments: One of two cars in the group with 6 gears. Even so, the car does still manage to touch 232-233mph on Mulsanne. Again, rear grip is good, but the wheels to lose traction in 2nd gear briefly, but not for much.

3rd) Nissan R92CP - 2'58.821
Comments: Even though it is said to have low downforce levels, suprisingly enough they showed more on the front than the rear, the rear wheels giving hardly any wheelspin in 2nd gear. Manages about the same as the 88C-V down Mulsanne

4th) Sauber-Mercedes C9 - 2'59.033
Comments: This car is fast, but it lacks in the handling department. Maybe taking some weight off may help. Again, not really any wheelspin in 2nd gear, so the car show good torque. Hits same speed as the other 3 cars.

5th) Jaguar XJR-9 - 3'03.509
Comments: Slow lap may have been due to the fact that this car has almost no traction in 2nd gear, which makes for a very tail-happy cat. With 5 gears, it can still hit 230mph. Choosers of this car better have their drifting skills on standby (if you know what i mean )

6th) Mazda 787B - 3'03.733
Comments: Easily the best handling car out of the 7. Only hits 220mph on Mulsanne, but it makes up for it in cornering speeds. Rear grip is good, with some loss of traction in 2nd gear. Does need a power upgrade, though.

7th) Peugeot 905 - 3'08.833
Comments: My favourite car out of the lot, but unfortunately the one which produces the slowest time. Even though with 6 gears, it can only touch about 225mph. One losing factor could be the fact that it takes a century for this car to change gear. This car definately needs to lose weight and gain power. Only a tiny loss of traction in 2nd gear gives it good rear end stability.

So, from this we can estimate the following: A sensible lap time target for all these cars would be 3'00. The Peugeot needs drastic upgrades to stay with the rest, while the Mazda does need some more power to gain those 3 seconds. The Jaguar may not need anything, but it could struggle due to lack of rear end traction with no aids. On the other end of the scale, the two Nissans and the Minolta need more weight and a little less power to keep them on par with everyone else. The Sauber may need some weight taken off, but it does also need some power subtracted.

If anyone would like to help me find the Arcade settings we need, or if they have any questions, queries, pointers or helpful suggestions, please feel free to either PM me or post them here.

OK, me and my good friend appie17 have been talking about the rules we should have in the championship. Here is what we have so far:

1. There will be a qualifying session, but it will be run in GT Mode. In the real thing, the cars were allowed to have more power so they could set the best time possible. Having said this, all drivers must have the car they are running available to them in GT Mode. It must be fitted with the Stage 4 Turbo and R5 for qualifying.
2. The races will be done in Arcade Mode, with the cars set with their assigned power and weight limits. Tyres are limited to RS, RM and RH, with RSS and RSH banned. All races must be run on heavy tyre wear settings.
3. All qualifying and racing must be done with NO AIDS AT ALL. The Group C cars in real-life never had electronic aids, and it is no different here.

nice rules Nitro:tup:

and add

- 1 week for qualifying
- 1 week for racing
- you can post your sector times
- you can do as many laps as you wish in qualify

and thats what i can think of now

And as nitro said if you have any questions, queries, pointers or helpful suggestions, please feel free to either PM me or post them here.

OK, me and Appie have devised the race schedule. Here is what we have gone for:

Round 1: Fuji 80's
Round 2: Grand Valley Speedway
Round 3: Apricot Hill Raceway
Round 4: Infineon Raceway (Stock Car Course)
Round 5: Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca
Round 6: Nurburgring Nordschelife
Round 7: Circuit de la Sarthe 2
Round 8: Special Stage Route 5
Round 9: Suzuka Circuit
Round 10: Fuji 90's

how much more weight do you want the 905 to lose? its lightst sports car at 750kg. its the gearbox that slows it down. if you dont use 1st or 2nd gear and then use the gear above what it suggests itll be a bit faster.

also, due the light weight it can get away with using one compound softer for the same distance that the other cars would use. (At least that was the situation for me when the359 ran group c a little while ago)

so, do you think we should drop the 905?

depends, if youre going to balance them out in arcade then you might as well keep it.

btw - if youre going to use infinion you really should use the full course. its a sin to skip the carasol.

hmm, i'll have to talk with appie and see if we can work somehting out about the 905. On the infineon question, I thought it would be a nice change to use the outer course instead. If many people want the SC course, then we will change it. Thanks for your input 👍

I'd be 100% willing to run if this series gets going. So for now, count me in!

m.piedgros

thanks for expressing your interest. I hope we can get a good amount of people interested and joined up.

Well I read what you have posted, and I have to say that it sounds fun.
You can count me in too:tup:, and the car I would pick would be the
Mazda 787B(quad rotary).And about Infineon Raceway (Stock Car Course),
I like that:tup:.

thanks angel, it's great to know you're supporting this. Remember, any suggestion you may have are welcome here.

I like the idea of the Infineon Stock Car course as well. I think it would be fun to run there for a change. I have no recolection myself of spending to much time there, but I'd imagine it would be blisteringly fast in a Group C car. Second, we will be running this in Arcade Mode, correct? If so, I think the Peugot can stay for sure. It's good to keep as big a field as possible, in my opinion. That's all for now... good luck getting this going.

m.piedgros

P.S. How about a Spot Race to get an idea of how many folks would be interested in entering the series? Just an idea.

good idea! i'll set one up now.

ok, spot race thread is up now. Remember, you can still post here

heh, i decided to include the stock car course of infineon because:

Big kerbs+some 800hp+no aids=

Haha. I figured that might have had something to do with it...


m.piedgros

good to see that your doing well Nitro:tup:

I've been trying to even out the cars in the Group C Championship. Some of the cars, for whatever reason, were unavailable to me in Arcade Mode. I have outlined which ones in a private message to Nitro. I felt it would be reasonable to ask my fellow drivers, if possible, to go to the Arcade Mode Time Trial and put down some hotlaps with the following cars:

Mercedes-Sauber C9
Minolta Toyota 88CV
Nissan R89 C
Nissan R92 CP

I have (obviously) the 905, 787B and XJ-R9 so there is no problem there. Those cars will be the benchmarks for me to go by if the others are made available.

Just as I told Nitro, its wierd, because I have each car unlocked in GT Mode but am unable to use them in Arcade. Does anyone have an explanation for this?

m.piedgros

EDIT: I'd also like to mention that, for the season, I too will run a 787B. I just love the sound of that thing... fantastic!
So I guess I'll post one's generic sign up.

Name: m.piedgros
Car: Mazda 787B
#: 95
Team: (Angel Creator, if you wanna team up for this we could do that, if allowed of course.)

I suppose to add on to my above edit, we could probably use more information on the series. You know, rules, regulations, obviously I'm controlling the car specs, but outline championship points, team championship(?), and the particulars about the series and we could draw more attention.

well, i've already got about 95% of the rules laid out. You never know, someone might think of another rule we could use. I will decide the points soon and there will be both a teams and manufacturers championship, as well as the drivers', of course.

so, does anyone else fancy a go?

Sounds entertaining but I cannot ever guarantee I could access a PS2 every week, so there wouldn't be much point. Nice idea though.

thanks. feel free to leave any helpful comments.

looks fun.

thanks. if you'd like to sign up, please do so in the provided thread

nitro_2005

So, from this we can estimate the following: A sensible lap time target for all these cars would be 3'00. The Peugeot needs drastic upgrades to stay with the rest, while the Mazda does need some more power to gain those 3 seconds. The Jaguar may not need anything, but it could struggle due to lack of rear end traction with no aids. On the other end of the scale, the two Nissans and the Minolta need more weight and a little less power to keep them on par with everyone else. The Sauber may need some weight taken off, but it does also need some power subtracted.

If anyone would like to help me find the Arcade settings we need, or if they have any questions, queries, pointers or helpful suggestions, please feel free to either PM me or post them here.

Click to expand...

Well, I think the car is more likely to change gears if you don't hit the redline and if you accelerate moderately when changing gears.
I don't know if it costs you more time than waiting for the gearbox to decide to change gears, but i got the impression it improves your laptimes. I'll have to give it a try with my 905, but i agree that the 905 shouldn't get a weight reduction.

It'll give the car too much advantage (as [empty space] already pointed out) over the other ones, it has got 150kg less than the other Group-C cars if i remember correctly.

nitro_2005

3. All qualifying and racing must be done with NO AIDS AT ALL. The Group C cars in real-life never had electronic aids, and it is no different here.

Click to expand...

The limited slip differential is banned also, is it? I'm use to "disable" it except for Rally-cars - (setting it to "5" - "5" - "5") because it spoils the fun when using racecars like the P905.


anyway, that sounds interesting even though i'll have exams coming up ... i'll think about participating even if i can't get as many laps as some of you, you'll hear from me tomorrow.

thank you for your comments, Vio. Any help and info you may be able to provide us with the car arcade adjustments would be very handy. LSD are acceptable, just no TCS and no ASM.

as of now, my PS2 for some reason is acting up with GT4 so I'm going to wait a while. as for the schedule, I like it but I believe some specific dates need to be placed. other than that, I'm thinking about joining:tup: .

This sounds like a fun series... Definitely count me in...

Edit: Where's the link to the "sign-up" thread?

m.piedgros

Name: m.piedgros
Car: Mazda 787B
#: 95
Team: (Angel Creator, if you wanna team up for this we could do that, if allowed of course.)

Click to expand...

That sounds like fun, I just don't know how these team races work.
If you could tell me how it works, I would be glad to be on a team with you(787B).