My concept for Career Mode

I hope you like to read.

This includes everything I could possibly want in the game, not what I expect to be there. It's kind of a dream thread.

After getting over the awe of both the PS3 and Gran Turismo 5, and beating Arcade Mode and much of Gran Turismo Mode, I think it's time to go to the next level. I skip Season Mode entirely to start from scratch in Career Mode.

After picking a region (Midwest USA), and a little cinema showing virtual me at a track deciding to get in on the action, the game screen has me at home faced with a few options. Email, Racing News, New Dealerships, Used Dealerships, Car Classifieds, and The Junkyard?! The heck?? Curious, I check it out and see that I can get fixer-uppers and cheap used parts there, including performance parts, and it updates every couple of days. Interesting.

Used Cars at the dealerships are a bit high but offer guaranteed condition and warranties. Classifieds have a rather lengthy list of prospects. Undoubtedly the more expensive ones are more reliable. Miatas, 240SXs, Supras, MR2s, 3000GT VR4s, RX-7s, some riced up, some autocrossed. I have a budget of $15,000, and as usual, used is the way to go. The 240 is a sweet car, but I check the email and what do I see but this:

Going SCCA? I have friend with this:
1995 Nissan 240SX hatch, autocrossed but in good shape. Sports clutch, brakes, transmission, differential, shocks with coilovers, radiator and rollbar. $7995

Double woah. Now, friends of friends with cars can be perilous, but what the heck. It even has decals! As I click on "Purchase," an option pops up: Do you want to have a garage TEST the car for $50? IN DEPTH testing for $200?

I click IN DEPTH, and after a second, the results indicate a need for wheel alignment, worn clutch and brakes, and cracked valve and worn piston in one cylinder. Terrific. But I have cash and this would save me some money on upgrades. I decide to get a remanufactured high performance engine and Z rated Kumho tires with the deal, and after adding it all up, it costs me $15,249! Yikes! I need a loan from the bank at 8% interest for $2000 just to have some money, but I have an upgraded sports car in super shape. After clicking over the options to check out the upgrades, I see that there's even a Stage 1 ECU the guy didn't even mention. Bonus!

Checking over race events, I see that there's a few SCCA meets coming up. I file and pay to join, and register for the Club Racing series. I get my number and SCCA decals, and position them in appropriate places on the car. Along with that is the Sparco racing suit which I pick out to match the racing colors I intend to have when I can afford to visit the paint shop. First is... augh, the cone course trials. I hate these, I just want to race, but oh well. Hood cam gives me a good view of the track, but after practice I still knock over cones and only place 7th. However that's good enough to qualify for the upcoming races. The car does "feel" excellent though, so I look forward to the race Saturday at the MidAmerica Motorplex in Iowa. The forecast is clear with a temp of about 65F. I forgot about weather, hrm.

There are two events. The 1.4 mile short course in the afternoon, and the longer 2.23 mile full course just before sunset. Thanks to years of GT racing, I qualify 3rd place. Some of these cars look mean, with bodykits and professional paint jobs. I have to budget for paint after this. And I have to remember that passing is only permitted on straights! Rules, gah!

The first is a ten lap race, and even on medium difficulty it's surprisingly challenging. The short course feels as small as a parkinglot, and with 20 competitors there's a lot of congestion. Thank God I placed well! I can just keep up with the second place car, an Acura Integra, but first is several car lengths beyond him. After riding number 2's bumper, he finally makes a bad turn in one of the tight corners and I seize the opportunity, going outside and just edging by him on the last short straight to finish second. But the engine seems to be feeling just a bit more oomph as the race progresses, so I'm hoping for a good run for the longer course.

It must be, because I place second this time, right behind Alex William's RX-7. The seriously mean looking car with the tail and swank paint job, and sponsors! And as expected, my oomph could only get me within a few car lengths of the RX-7, and I had to listen to that spitting whine the entire five laps. It didn't help that much of the track was aimed right at the setting sun! Darn that high definition lighting. Telemetry indicates a few tweaks to match the car to my driving style, that will help next race. But the two trophies look nice, and the purse of $2500 a race will make my bank account happier. Minus maintenance?! Well crud.

Not only that, when I get home, I see I have three emails from sponsors to check out for such a promising rookie performance! Alex will have to watch his six next time.

The first upgrade is an awesome paint job. Everyone knows that the most important aspect of a successful career is the... paintjob, right? Anyway, thanks to playing with the paintshop in Forza, the more powerful tools in GT5 give me a stupendous sparkle burgundy and silver livery, and the decals get a major facelift too. With the high resolution of the PS3, the edges are jaggy free. With subsequent victories, the high performance mods get replaced one by one with racing gear from Borla, Brembo, Nismo and others, and the aerodynamic kits complete the aggressive racing look I've been after. Off to Photo Mode!

The year is turning out really well. I have to grit my teeth and remember that first place is sweet, but points count in the long run, and they stack up very well, along with prize purses and a steady income from the sponsors who are pleased with my performance. As I edge into first place standing, I capture the coveted Mobil 1 sponsorship which is only given to the best rookies. Well, I like it anyway.

With the points race all wrapped up, the only thing left in the season is the October SCCA National Championship Runoffs at Heartland Park in Topeka, the Stanley Cup of the SCCA. Beyond this and the close of the season (getting tired of writing here), professional careers await in Gran Touring or Rally, and beyond them, GTS, Formula 1 and others. Rally racing is awesome, but my true love is road course racing. So next year it's off to GT Class, baby!

Very nice write up! What if someone wanted to remain amatuer and continue racing in the cones or in the mildly modified 240? and how long would this year of racing take to complete? a few hours or a few days?

Cool ideas! It has a lot of the elements I would love to see in GT5.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!111!!!!!onehundredeleven!!!!11!!eleventhousandonehundredeleven!!!!!!!!!!!
That would be absolutley perfect! I love this idea! GT5 would be my all time favorite game if it was like that!

Coool..
That would be soo hot.
Dont like the cracked valves and wheel alignment though
But I s'pose its realistic that way.
Nice job, +rep!

I guess I should go into a little more detail.

The Sports Car Club of America is a hobbyist to professional contellation of racing, and there are similar groups for Europe, South America, Japan and Australia. It has a bewildering range of racing classes and opportunities. You can even race cart-like vehicles! I don't want GT5 to get as crazy as Toca 3, but the variety is pretty sweet. The guts of serious SCCA racing is in regional Drag, Solo (timed autocross), Club (road) and Rally (offroad), where the country is divided into many regions of lower level racing. Above that is SCCA Pro which has SEVERAL similar classes of racing, like the SPEED World Challenge GT and Touring Car Championships, the Miata Cup, Motorock Trans-Am Tour, Cooper Tires Championship Series, Formula Drift and SCCA Formula Russell Championship. WHEW! Where do these guys get the time to do all this?! The SCCA season generally runs... I believe from March till the end of October. How many races, I don't know for sure, but it's a bunch.

Anyway, what I would envision is assuming you pick America as your home region, that you begin in the SCCA, and to make it easier to get into the pro leagues, I'd merge the Pro and hobby divisions. It would begin with those dreaded GT License tests, like Autocross cone laps. Once you qualify, there would be two basic divisions, the Club/Touring Car and Rally. You would race for a full season, maybe 50 races. At the end of the season if your standings were good enough, you would have the option to go fully professional into GT or Rally racing, or continue with SCCA Professional. The rewards are smaller, but it's pretty serious racing, with all the Vettes, Vipers, Skylines and NSXs you could want to challenge you.

Once again, I envision those lovely License Tests to qualify for professional racing. Pro racing I envision in two basic tiers:

GT/GTS and Rally
LeMans and Formula 1

So you'd have to complete another whole season of GT/GTS or Rally before you could move on to LeMans or Formula 1.

If this sounds like an endless ordeal, keep in mind that my dream for GT5 encapsulates four modes:

- Arcade and Gran Turismo Modes, the traditional GT game where you race for cash and prize cars

- Season and Career Modes, which are the simulation of real life racing I want to see. Season Mode puts you into whatever class of racing you want in whatever region you want for a season's worth of racing, based more or less on real life racing and rules. Career Mode is like my post indicates, and puts you at the very start of your racing life as a kid - or girl - with $10,000-20,000 and a dream to make it big, but starting with grass roots racing. Career Mode is a kind of virtual racing life, and basically goes on and on for as long as you want to pursue it.

These four modes of play would give you the option to have as unrestricted or as demanding and real world a racing game as you want.

Fabulous. Beautifully detailed. Amazingly in-depth. Well, you get the idea:idea:

Thanks for the enthusiasm gang.

One thing I forgot to deal with is the idea of starting a team of my own. I assume that entering pro racing your rookie year you would have to be hired by a racing team. I would think that several companies would be recruiting, giving you a choice of flavors, and a level of challenge. I'm sure some teams would have better financial condition and a crew to support you, which would translate into such bonuses as a slightly better looking and performing racecar.

After a season or two, what about starting your own team? You would need a load of cash, a group of sponsors to fund it, a crew to run the thing and keep the cars running, and a good driver to team with. This would add another level of challenge to the game for those who also wanted to play manager and make everything happen. Plus outside of funding the team, all income would be yours.

Someone at forzacentral said that what they ought to do is take my concept and put it all online, kind of like a racing MMO. That idea fascinates me, the idea that the entire racing world could be modelled, and instead of racing against bots, you'd be facing live players from around the world. Teams could be founded which would expand on the Gran Turismo universe, like the online racing clubs of different games, but the essence would be elevated to a whole new level.

Oh, and here's another thought. Along with the Sim-ie aspects of my idea, how about along with your profile, you pick a player model like you do in online MMORPGs, defining body build, facial features, hair color and style? You could be a Tom Cruise pretty boy or a salt n pepper haired Paul Newman.

I guess as JohnBM01 would say, what's in your wish list for Career Mode?

Do you have any ideas about alternate ways of the player getting an income in the game? besides race winnings and sponsorships?

Hrm... in real life of course we all have jobs - or rich relatives but that's not quite an option for most. I don't know. After pondering it, it depends on what you're thinking.

I do like the idea that every challenge, success and reward in Gran Turismo is tied directly to your racing. Are you thinking of doing public appearances, ads for magazines or something? I'd think that would tie in to sponsorships.

I would like the flow of money to increase readily as you progress in Career Mode. Not as astronomically as it does in GT Mode, where every race has a cash reward and most award a car, and often outrageously expensive ones. But I would like sponsors to come knocking or emailing if you have a top five finish in the first race, or after you complete three or four races. That sponsorship income would add to the cash prizes and help further your career. Of course if you bomb badly, your sponsors would basically fire you. But surely that wouldn't happen.

I didn't even try Arcade Mode in Forza till I was comfortable driving the cars, and I didn't tackle Career Mode till I was about 95% don with Arcade. I'd think that the serious challenge of Season and Career Mode would make people sure they had their stuff together in GT Mode before they started up a Career profile.

What sort of things were you thinking? Oh, and I agree, put Fiero GT in Gran Turismo 5!

I was thinking of a SMALL side story for income when one is start out racing. Starting off with just 20K Cr would be very difficult for me. There are lots of start up expenses to a beginning racer. When there are no sponsors and no fame. My ideal would be a little part time job to help cushion the cost of racing. They would be extra funding to get tires, entry fees, practice time, etc... Now, if it was possible to have a few things such as, starting a tuning company, buying and selling used cars online, or a custom paintshop online, that could signifigantly help earn money to support your own racing team. I doubt they could be incorporated though for their complexity inside of career mode.

I can understand if someone had complited most of arcade and/or GT mode it would be farely simple to progress quickly in Career Mode, BUT that seems to take a very large part of the career feel out for me. The whole part of learning to become a great racer. The problem in my mind for this is people who have gotten very good and want to repeat career mode. If they come back to Career Mode and have to go through the boring and often frustrating challenges of starting the Career then it would be bad.

Good Morning, GTP!!!

Note: I never plan on completing any game in the GT series. I like expiriencing the cars and the challenge of earning them--NOT by by going through a billion races to win them.

Okay, that sounds reasonable. I like the dealership idea. You could take sports car beaters and fix them up with a glorious paint job and sell them for a profit. Not the 25% actual value of GT Mode.

One thing about my two sim mode ideas is that for those who don't want to start from scratch, there's Season Mode which would put you in whatever class of racing you liked. So if you wanted to do seasons of SCCA Professional, GTS, World Rally or Formula 1, it would be there for you.

One thing that fascinates me about the racing MMO idea is how that would play out. It wouldn't be just hopping on a server to race against real live humans or joining clubs, it would be racing in an entire series for championships. I'd imagine that there would be an "established" racing series that would have a definite schedule and start time, and have a few of them around the clock so that people from different regions could join them. Along with that would be "floating" associated series which would begin periodically and wait for players to join the servers. Like with my SCCA Championships above, there are two main championship series and five associated series, including a drift but I wouldn't have a serious drift class as it would be too arcady and hard to properly judge. So for those who couldn't make the established championships, there would be the associated series you could join at any time. And maybe the associated series' would be the shakedown, and only the best would progress from there to the Gran Turismo World Championship. Sounds tantalizing to me.

I think the MMO racing online with major established racing series would require way too much innovation on PDs part. I think while having it online and controlled mostly by PD would allow more gamers to have access to it, it would also allow more racers to slam race cars, and much less freedom in the types of series that can be started. Now, if there was a bulliten inside the "Racer's lounge" (main area of GT5 online) where people could post about races that are coming up or that they have planned to keep people updated as to when to jump in, when they need to be ready, what level of a racer they need to be, etc all of this would be choosen when one person creates their race series then the user can choose to upload data to the public board.

Did anyone ever find out the actual price including labor of having a new car rendered and tested for physics to be put into a GT game? I had the idea of...... way off topic

Man, I hope this Career thing makes it. I'm tired of PD playing the fence with it's GT mode.

You could be right about the company run servers, but it depends. Sony would be running them, and I envision other people hosting servers on their PS3s so that there would be a good number of races running at any one time. EA hosted free servers for Battlefield 2 and other games, at least for a while. But we'll see as the release day draws closer and Kaz starts to reveal just what this beastly game will be like, and what Sony's plans are for the online structure of all their games.

3spddrft

Did anyone ever find out the actual price including labor of having a new car rendered and tested for physics to be put into a GT game? I had the idea of...... way off topic.

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Honey, I modelled the car?

3spddrft

Man, I hope this Career thing makes it. I'm tired of PD playing the fence with it's GT mode.

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Me too. From what I've heard of the Toca series, their racing and championship system is supposed to be the best in gaming. Well, maybe it's Toca 2. I think it's time that Polyphony gave us the wide world of racing that we're all dreaming of.

I'll tell you what my wish for the next GT game is, but not now and not here, it will be long, but hopefully enjoyable to read. Nice ideas there Tenacious:tup:.

Thanks a bunch. Your thread was a good read too. 👍

One more thing I forgot to discuss is the used car list. You (L4S) mentioned in your post the concept of multiple homes/garages, I assume like folders to sort your cars with. GT4 had a very nice sort feature that let you use several categories, but I would like to sort them myself because sometimes you just can't find that ONE car without sifting through the whole lot.

Now about the issue of used cars. In the traditional Gran Turismos, the used car lot was programmed in with a schedule which would update the car list according to the calendar. But since the PS3 is going to be a networked console, I'd assume that there would be some goodies added to the list by Polyphony/Sony.

Now here's something clever. Suppose with your many garages, named appropriately Stock Cars, Sport Modified, Race Cars, Race Modified etc, you had a garage (folder) named For Sale. You'd put cars in there you want to get rid of, and when you checked the used car listing, your PS3 would download the list of used cars from everyone's PS3s on the net, and when someone bought your car, you would get the cash.

Maybe you could specify a price, a listed and a hidden minimum price, or a default might be 50% of the car's true value. That would be a lot better than the 25% you get from selling a car back to the game. Plus this would give people a chance to buy a car that might be modded already, saving them some money. Also, artists could paint up cars for sale, perhaps modified or even race modded.

Neat, huh?

Now, I'd better get to bed like I meant to, dawn is coming quickly.

In live4speed's marvelous thread, we've been hashing out what Gran Turismo has been about these past 10 years, which is basically picking from hundreds of race opportunities from day to day and just going at it however you like. Also, collecting every darn car in the game at least once.

Real life racing is almost always a situation where a driver develops a special relationship with one or two cars, and he devotes all of his effort to coming to terms with them, so he can win against the best drivers in his field.

Career Mode as I see it should be all about this aspect of racing. Choosing your first car to enter the SCCA-like enthusiast racing league should be like choosing a wife if possible. You shouldn't be thinking of having a garage full of Skylines, Vipers, BMWs, Supras and Corvettes. Get one car, or maybe two if something special comes around, and develop it into a monster to be reckoned with. Use it like a sword to cut a path to racing glory. Then when you're ready for that next level of professional racing, go at it the same way with one or two cars. One or two very special cars which you use to make your mark on the racing world.

Don't be disappointed at the prospect of just having a couple of cars, if that. There's always traditional Gran Turismo Mode to feed your ravenous hunger for car collecting.

It would be best in GT5 for the player to have a very unique expirience as far as career mode goes. By being able to choose what segment of SCCA racing they want to start at depending on their car choice.

Two questions for the night!!!

Should there be a completiion of Career Mode? Could one die? How would one know if they beat it?

How much should online be involved in Career Mode? I think most everyone likes the idea of Used Car dealerships being an online interface, which I agree with.


Crazy idea over here!!! Check it out! Selling videos of races, burnouts, donuts, drifting, supercar battles, comparisons, etc.... all bought with credits, of course.

3spddrft

Two questions for the night!!!

Should there be a completiion of Career Mode? Could one die? How would one know if they beat it? How much should online be involved in Career Mode?

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That's four questions.

Should there be a completion of Career Mode?

As I envision it, no. Like a virtual racing life, it goes on from racing season to racing season. With downloadable content, cars, rule changes, new tracks, new drivers and teams can all appear at the start of the next season to add freshness and variety. Heck, I'd race it forever myself. I've played season after season of hockey games, and people rack up ten million rounds of Virtua Fighter or Tekken. Each season and each race will always be unique.

Could one die?

Gah, I hope not! I wouldn't code for a drop over the edge of the Grand Canyon or a life ending 50 car pileup. A serious race ending wreck might leave you with a trip to the hospital. Maybe that could be in the starting options.

How would one know if they beat it?

Since I envision this crazy thing as a virtual life dealy, you wouldn't necessarily have a final victory. You'd have the yearly race for the championship, and how well you perform can bring you various rewards like they offer in pro racing today. I can't recall any off the top of my head, but they have a number of awards recognizing the successes in different aspects of racing. You could even have your pit crew win an award!

How much should online be involved in Career Mode?

I haven't played Forza online yet, or any of the PC games, but supposedly Forza online is a direct extension of Forza single player Career Mode. How my concept would work, I'm not exactly sure, but what comes to mind this moment is this:

Suppose a particular upcoming race on your schedule sounds like a boring walkover that you could win with your eyes closed, so you decide to try it online. You initiate the race, click ONLINE, set a starting time limit or minimum number of online players, the rest of the slots filled with bots, and when the starting specs are met, the race starts. When it's done you accept the results or do over. Does that sound appealing?

Crazy idea over here!!! Check it out! Selling videos of races, burnouts, donuts, drifting, supercar battles, comparisons, etc.... all bought with credits, of course.

Hey! Works for me!

When it's done you accept the results or do over.

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Doesn't sound very sim to me

I hate to go back to what I had already asked, and you tried to anwser, BUT "how long would this year of racing take to complete? a few hours or a few days?" A lot of people don't like the idea of delayed racing. They want to be able to race the same race over and over until they beat it. I would like it if people could not simply repeat the same race endlessly. If they lose so badly constantly, how did they get into it?

How does it work for everyone to do qualifying, practice, etc for as long as they want? I'm working on getting somewhere in GT3 and sometimes wish the qualifying ended at a specific time so that it wasn't just me racing untill I beat everyone to the pole position.

I thought about that "do over" bit as I was posting it, as it isn't very lifelike to say, "Well... that didn't happen..." But eh, I know lots of people would have conniptions if you couldn't. However, you're right. In sports games, you play your game and you win or loose, and that's that. Since this is going to be a test of what you're made of as a driver, there really shouldn't be a retry option in Career Mode races.

In real life racing, I believe there are a few days of practice in which teams adjust the cars to the track to their drivers' satisfaction. They're scheduled so that everyone gets their chance, and I believe they last for hours. To qualify, you get warm up laps, and then your three timed laps.

How long the races run in the SCCA, I'm not sure. It's been a while since I've seen any on The Speed Channel, been really busy this year. Maybe 25 laps? I would like a decently long race, but not too long. I think from 10-25 laps would do, with pits only for emergencies. There could be special events with endurance lengths of perhaps 50-200 laps. Race length could be another one of the starting options, with longer races offering greater rewards. Also more maintenance.

Season length? Let's say it's from March 1st to October 31st. I think that's about 35 weekends. 50 races could probably squeeze into that without too much trouble. I wouldn't mind having more races than that. Hockey has 82 games in the regular season, and then there's the playoffs after that - Go Canes! But a 50 race SCCA season sounds pretty good, and then there's next season when you're done with them.

This discussion, with Forza running in the background, is making me hungry for some Vision Gran Turismo.

So, we now have three or four specific "next Gran Turismo 5" threads filling up with interesting ideas and speculation, including this one. But JohnBM01 brought up an interesting point.

This thread in particular was my request for a full bore simulation mode that encapsulated virtually the entire racing world this side of NASCAR, from the grass roots of enthusiast racing in groups like the SCCA all the way to professional racing in classes like World Rally, Gran Touring, F1A and the like. I wanted to see the entire chain running from a teenager with a wad of cash and dreams of spraying champagne in a podium victory at Monaco, to racing at Monaco. Include everything from street cars from around the world, licensed performance part manufacturers, race tracks, racing families, schedules, rules, weather, drivers with names and personalities that advanced alongside you, grime under your fingernails, everything.

John mentioned that this had never really been in the Gran Turismo gameplay philosophy. Even if Kazunori-sama had mentioned things like this in interviews where he voiced his fantasies for GT, they never manifested. So what I was wanting was akin to turning Gran Turismo into some glorified Toca Race Driver with Richard Burns Rally and GTR bolted on.

And... well, yeah! That's exactly what I want. But, his question does have merit, so I ask you guys. Am what I'm wanting to see something which would change Gran Turismo so much that it really should develop into its own franchise? A Gran Turismo Professional Edition? Or is this what Gran Turismo should logically evolve into, with the power of the PS3 allowing Kazunori's dreams to finally manifest?

What do you think?

"John mentioned that this had never really been in the Gran Turismo gameplay philosophy. Even if Kazunori-sama had mentioned things like this in interviews where he voiced his fantasies for GT, they never manifested. So what I was wanting was akin to turning Gran Turismo into some glorified Toca Race Driver with Richard Burns Rally and GTR bolted on."--Tenacious D

Nothing like posting on a thread that went cold almost two months ago. But I agree with you. Honestly, D, I think it's what a lot of us want. GranTocaGTRTurismo 5!
I started playing Gran Turismo barely 4 years ago, in GT3. After only driving in EA's NASCAR games, I was thunderstruck by what I saw in GT3 to say the least. I honestly believe that GT5 could incorporate some of the ideas that you and others, like Minicooper, have expressed over the last 6 or 7 weeks. Everyone seems to be seeking more involvemnet, more immersion in the game. When you look at what GT3 offered and what GT4 has to offer, the evolution of the game on the PS3 should be--or could be--staggering.

In GT3 when you race enduros you didn't have to worry about your fuel state. All you cared about was your tires. In GT4 you gotta worry about tires and fuel! In GT5 it could be about fixing damage--that is damage that is repairable with the strict confines of the race event. In 24 hour events, you may have to swap drivers.

In GT3 when you pitted, your car, and the vehicles of you opponents just magiacally floated in the air--then presto, new tires! In GT4 you've got a pit crew--slow a molasses, but a pit crew nonetheless! Now when other cars pit you can't see them, but you know they're there because you can hear'em as they roar by.
In Vision Gran Turismo you can see all cars pitting at once with crews, spectators, inspectors, the whole thing. Can we expect to see this in GT5--why the hell not?

In GT3 we only had 2 real-world courses: Leguna-Seca and Monaco. In GT4 there's more than a dozen! Should we expect more in GT5? Again, why the hell not?

In GT3 when you were in the middle of a 10 event championship you were stuck there till the end. If your porr car neeeded and oil change too bad. GT4 you can get change your vehicle's fluids. In GT5, who knows--a lot of people have posted what they like to see. Engine can't hold up, swap it for a new one; shocks are worn to crud, buy new ones; brakes got squishy during the last race, re-place the luid and the hoses.

In essence, I agree with you and a few others--the sky's the limit--I think a lot of the suggestions are do-able. A lot of people say Gran Turismo isn't a racing game, it's a driving game and always will be. In GT3 you have a manual with 7 pages of racing tips taken from Skip Barber's book 'Going Faster'. I know because I own the book and would immediately recommend it! In GT4's manual, you have more racing tips. Watered down, but they're there. Why have real-world circuits if it's not about racing? Why have race cars if it's not about racing? Why practice and qualify? Why have opponents? From 6 cars in a race to perhaps 20 according to the Vision. If Gran Turismo didn't have all of that, it'd be one car on track at one time doing a single car time-attack.
Almost forgot, add on-line play . . . then let's see what happens.
From its humble beginings on the PS1, to its struggles on the PS2, will we finally see Kazonori-sama's Vision on the PS3?
I think we will.

That is AWESOME! Gran Turismo meets the Sims! You are a GENIUS!

If you're saying that about me, thank you much. I do have a voracious imagination. But I must admit that the environment here, with all these mad-thinking posters is very inspiring. I have to hand it to hundreds and hundreds of you guys, as well as Kazunori-sama's team of course, that Gran Turismo is a phenomenon that has no real equal, and really makes a guy dream.

I'm expecting that when GT5 hits the shelves - and I'm wondering how many of those boxes in the first two weeks will even make it to the shelves - a lot of our dreams will show up on a lot of gleaming TV screens.

Oh, and another thing. Those that think that Gran Turismo is in a rut and never goes anywhere really needs to look at Thundercats' post above. And keep in mind that the Forza nuts - and I include myself among them - are going crazy over a game that in its second edition will have a whopping 70 new cars added.

Tenacious D

I hope you like to read.
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You wrote this while I was on holiday - No wonder I missed it !...

Serious Rep points for this - Excellent read 👍

Thanks again.

There is a matter that I kept forgetting to mention in my dream drooling. I was fantasizing about being able to run the circuits in the American SCCA, but if you consider the number of semi-pro to pro qualified tracks just in America, the tracks number in the hundreds! I'd imagine worldwide, the numbers approach a thousand or more. Of course this isn't feasable for any game company to do without a lifetime of modelling from hundreds of computer modellers.

I do hope though that Polyphony is able to squeeze in dozens of tracks from around the world as well as the fantasy tracks from the previous versions of Gran Turismo to give us plenty to race on. A few real life semi-pro tracks along with the fantasy tracks would give us plenty of race courses to live out our semi-pro life in the early stages of this Career Mode.

Since GTHD is going to be a kind of Prologue hybrid game, I thought I'd bump my thread and dig up my GT5 wishlist, since that is what we're all hoping appears before we grow old and get married and don't have time for it anymore.

This is a next gen game on a SERIOUSLY next gen system, so let there be few limits. Put in as much of the old Gran Turismos in this game as possible, along with as much of real world racing as there can reasoably be.

FOUR MODES OF PLAY

• Arcade Mode
• Gran Turismo Mode
• Season Mode
• Career Mode

OPTIONS, OVERALL AND IN MODE

• Music tracks from previous versions of Gran Turismo, including tracks from all regions, as well as new playlists. Ability to add music from your own library or computer, or downloaded from the internet in any audio format.
• Real time passage of time. Weather based on real world models (no rainouts or severe weather). Ability to override race conditions and time of day, or set master parameters.
• Damage, with at least a scale of None, Light, Moderate, and Simulation.
• Adjustable driver camera with follow view, roof view, interior view, and nose/bumper view. Parameters for camera placement and amount of sway and drift. Optional mirror.
• A.I. racers based on real world drivers, with individual traits and tactics, which also improve through the season with you in Season or Career Mode. A.I. adjusts to your driving tendencies. Difficulty selection determines driver skill and aggression level, as well as prize amount and quality of car prize in GT Mode. Progressive A.I. levels through Arcade (basic), GT Mode (moderate) to Season and Career Modes (most realistic and difficult).
• Season and Career Mode based on real racing leagues and classes, from enthusiast leagues like America's SCCA to Touring Car, GT/GTS, Rally, LeMans, Formula 1, etc, with full racing rules and restrictions.
• Race Rules which are based on real race courses and leagues, with the option to disable them in Gran Turismo Mode. Optional limits on rules in Season and Career Modes.
• The opportunity to create your own racing team, complete with your own racing graphics for cars, uniforms and helmets.
• Race Generator returning from GT2 for Arcade and Gran Turismo Mode, but with even more comprehensive features and definitions, as well as rules options.
• Photo Mode available in all modes during replays, as well as its own, with a greatly increased selection of settings and special effects like blurring and placeable colored lights, flare/spark generators and lasers.

CARS AND TRACKS

• More cars than ever. All the cars from the previous editions, with new cars from world auto makers.
• Tracks from previous versions of Gran Turismo, as well as new race courses, both real and fantasy.
• Road courses, city courses, point to point, down/uphill mountain courses, with rally versions.
• Used car dealerships, with car lists which change in a random fashion to reflect realistic availability, as well as classifieds. Unique and special cars appear for sale periodically. Cars bought and sold reflect accurate real world values. Used cars can be refurbished to factory specs.
• Car components licensed from real automotive companies, modelled to incredible detail, from tires and suspensions, brakes and drivetrains, turbos and exhausts. Even oils and fluids! Engine swaps.
• Body kits, licensed from real kit makers, which enhance performance as well as looks.
• A paint shop with every feature you could want in a livery creator, equipping you with all the tools to create a custom paint job to be admired. The ability to paint any surface of the car, including wheels, rims and windows. Provided decals for all the performance mod makers. Text fonts, flags and decal editor.
• A full racing conversion utility. With enough money, turn any car into a high performance race car, provided the basic car meets the requirements of the league you want to enter it in.

SEASON AND CAREER MODE

• Career Mode begins in an enthusiast semi-pro league modelled on the Sports Car Club of America, while Season Mode provides a league of your choice.
• A range of racing teams to choose from at the start, giving you certain opportunities and bonuses, as well as penalties. A bot driver may be hired from a list of recruits, each with their own driving skills and traits, and trained to drive in the team.
• Full season and track rules laid out before you race. Realistic penalties for violations. Optional rules selections. Option to disable damage and maintenance.
• Race for points, cash prizes, as well as for sponsorships. Optional simulated qualifying.
• Full stat tracking for all drivers, as well as a comprehensive, easy to understand telemetry system to help you fine tune your car, as well as your racing techniques. Post race maintenance.
• A virtual crew chief which will suggest car setups before each race, as well as advice on changes and driving techniques.
• Rivalries develop between you and certain drivers, which inspire them to drive more competitively against you.
• He who finishes with the most points wins! With additional rewards at season's end for good driving and sportsmanship, fan appreciation, as well as pit crew performance. Sponsor bonus for good performance.
• Opportunities after the completion of a season or two to start your own team from scratch, hiring your own crew, as well as a driver to team with.

What would be interesting in the used car garage would be a 'black beauty' section - retired race cars for sale from racing teams, still in race trim but stripped of paint and decals. An example would be: (Since I'm in Australia), a VZ commodore V8 Supercar for sale from Holden Racing Team when they go to the new VE model. Otherwise you might find a used LeMans Audi R10 TDI there somewhere down the track when they retire it...

Just a thought.

Awesome thread, by the way. I would be uber interested in something like what you've suggested.

A Hoden V8 supercar stripped of paint wouldn't be black, the 4 black cars in GT4 are only black because their body is made from carbon fiber.

I think this sounds realistic ( and expensive ): Simulation-level damage, way over 1000bhp car on a salt flat, and tyre exploding around 270mph. results: your car, scattered across few miles. wheel there, carbonfibre panel there, pieces of suspension.. engine that has been torn off and tossed aside while car did spin around multiple times, and finally, the twisted and mutilated pile of rollcage that saved your life.

that's what i want to see in GT5.