Deals on 1080p Displays

Digital-Nitrate

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I was at Costco this weekend and they had several good deals on 1080p displays. The following three looked especially appealing for bargain hunters:

$2,000 62" Toshiba 62HM196 DLP RPTV
$1,800 56" JVC HD56FB97 HD-ILA LCoS RPTV
$1,650 47" Vizio GV47 LCD DVTV

While each of these has its own set of advantages and disadvantages, and can be bought for less if you are willing to shop online, for the money, and with Costco's buyer protection policy, these are very nice bargains.
 
Looks like there are some great deals on Westinghouse's 37" 1080p LCD HDTV:

I am in the market for Westinghouse LVM-37W3 37" LCD TV. I have been reading expert reviews and that has been useful to me. It may be help you too. I had been using PCWorld.com, cnet.com to find reviews. Yesterday I used PriceGrabber’s expert review tab (http://www.pricegrabber.com/info_expertreviews.php/masterid=18577153) and found a site (www.smartratings.com) that aggregates expert reviews. It only covers a few categories but it is pretty neat. Just my $.02.
Just a word of caution though, and that reliability has been a problem with Westinghouse TV's, and the video processing and contrast performance is not nearly as good as other LCD flat panel TV's from JVC, Sony, and Sharp. However, Westinghouse TVs also cost less.



As for Bricks & Mortar retailers, Costco is once again offering some very nice deals on TVs, including $2,000 for the 37” and $2,500 for the 52" 1080p Sharp AQUOS LCD DVTVs.


* If anyone comes across any good online and/or B&M deals on 1080p displays, please post them here. 👍
 

For those of you who don't have a PS3 yet, Newegg has a 46" AQUOS combo that includes a 60GB for $2599.99. Before this they had the 46" for around $2000, so they pretty much just added the PS3 cost onto it. The price of this screen jumps around quite a bit though and you might not be able to find it for much less.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889101094

Tree'd!...


Guess I should have looked through the rest of the thread. :dunce:
 
Not a deal so to speak, but information worthy of sharing...

Samsung is about to release their latest line (LN-Txx65F) of flat panel 1080p LCD TVs and they have....

HDMI 1.3!

  • Panel: 1920x1080 'SuperClear' TFT LCD
  • Contrast Ratio: 15,000:1
  • Brightness: 550cd/m2
  • Backlight: CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp)
  • Color Processing: 10-bit (30-bit RGB/YCbCr)
  • Color Gamut: 12.8 Billion Colors
  • Processing: DNIe
  • 3xHDMI 1.3
  • Anynet+ (HDMI-CEC)
  • Wise Link
  • USB 2.0
They come in 40" 46" and 52" models.

Any of these would be a perfect match with a PS3 in order to take full advantage of what the PS3 has to offer. 👍
 
If I buy a TV smaller then 40"...how important is 1080p? I've read that you really can't tell the difference in smaller sets. Does anyone know if this is a fact? Will I be happy with a 720p in a mid 30" set?
 
If I buy a TV smaller then 40"...how important is 1080p? I've read that you really can't tell the difference in smaller sets. Does anyone know if this is a fact? Will I be happy with a 720p in a mid 30" set?

Depends how close you sit to the Display. The higher the resolution the better in my opinion, but if your 20 Feet away looking a 30", I doubt you will notice a difference between 720p and 1080p.

Something that people should be aware of when buying a 1080p set, be fully aware that some TV's will not accept a 1080p signal but will up convert lower resolution sources up to 1080p. Up converting a 480/720p or 1080i to 1080p does not look as good as a 1080p source being displayed at 1080p. So if your looking for a 1080p specific display, be sure that it can accept a 1080p input source!
 
We will sitting between 5 and 10 feet from this set. So you think I could tell the difference. Do not buy an upscaled version of 1080p...check. 👍
 
If I buy a TV smaller then 40"...how important is 1080p? I've read that you really can't tell the difference in smaller sets. Does anyone know if this is a fact?
It is definitely not a fact! It is one of the most abused myths out there in regards to HDTV.

To understand why this is not the case, all you have to do is look at your computer's monitor from two feet away, then look at a 40" TV from ten feet away. Guess which "looks" bigger? It will be the PC monitor, and by twice as much!

It isn't the size of the screen that matters, its how much of our field of vision is filled with the images we are looking at that determines how much detail we can see.

To accurately measure how much of a specific display is filling our field of vision, one must divide the distance you are from the screen by how large the screen is. This is commonly referred to in the HT industry as the D:W ratio (Distance:Width). Width is commonly used for simplicity, but if one wanted to be very accurate they would use the entire screen area (WxH).

But sticking with the industry norm; if you were sitting from a 19" screen from two feet away, it would give you a D:W of about 1.5 (which happens to also be the recommended D:W for a typical Home Theater).

If you were sitting from a 40" TV from ten feet away, that results in a D:W of about 3.5... the smaller the D:W the more your field of vision is filled. Thus, the 19" screen will appear more than twice as large as the 40" screen.

So it isn't the size of the screen, but the distance you are from it that will determine how much detail you'll notice... assuming both displays are equal in resolution and performance.

I recently had a rather heated debate with someone on the boardsus.playstation.com forum on this issue, as they were absolutely convinced that you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on any screen 32" or smaller... which is absolutely untrue.

Rather than repeat a lot of the same info, here are the links to my responses, which include more detail explanations as well as more examples:
Bottom line: It is even possible to see the difference between 1080p and 720p on an iPod sized screen... if such existed, and as long as you were not watching it from far away.

Everyone's eyesight is different, but generally speaking you should easily be able to distinguish between 1080p and 720p images from a D:W of 5:1 or less, some may even notice differences at 10:1, especially from images with lots of fine detail.

This is also a key issue, and that is what type of images you are looking at. For example, if you are looking at a test pattern that is a solid color, there will be absolutely no difference between seeing it in 1080p, 720p, or even 480p... and for that matter, if you had a TV with a resolution of 1x1 pixel, it would also look the same... as they are all simply showing one color. The more detail that is in the picture, the more important it is to have a display that has enough resolution such that detail isn't lost.

Traditional 35mm film can capture much more detail than what can be displayed even on a 1080p TV, but if it is only capturing images that in themselves do not have a lot of detail, the differences wont be dramatic.

This is also why some might say they don't see a big difference between 720p and 1080p TVs as they may very well have been watching images that do not have a lot of fine detail, thus the added resolution isn't going to help much. Even more likely, they could also be watching 720p material on both displays, thus all they are getting on the 1080p display is an upscaled version of the 720p signal, which not only wont add any original detail back into the picture, but if the TV has an inferior scaler, the image might even look worse than when shown on a native 720p TV.

This is not to say that 720p TVs are not adequate, and in fact if it were me, I’d spend more money on better quality images, then higher resolution… ideally you’d want both, but a great looking 720p TV with vibrant accurate deep colors, and superb black levels, shadow detail, and contrast is going to completely outshine any crappy looking 1080p TV ay day of the week, even when watching the very best 1080p video that is out there (which for me is easily the Planet Earth series, which just came out on Blu-ray and HD DVD today!)

There is nothing wrong with owning and appreciating a good quality 720p TV... that's what I have in our family room, and I do understand why the myth about not being able to see the difference between 1080p and 720p on smaller screens exists. However, it is in fact inaccurate, and it's a myth that really annoys me as it misleads a lot of people, who then go on to spread the same myth to others, which is why it is so common today, despite not being true. :ouch:
 
We will sitting between 5 and 10 feet from this set. So you think I could tell the difference. Do not buy an upscaled version of 1080p...check. 👍

With Digital-Nitrate's reply being very accurate and technical; in short, yes...you would be able to tell the difference of 720p vs 1080p especially with a 1080p input source. If that difference is enough for you to upgrade to a 1080p display would have to be your determination.
 
Something that people should be aware of when buying a 1080p set, be fully aware that some TV's will not accept a 1080p signal but will up convert lower resolution sources up to 1080p. Up converting a 480/720p or 1080i to 1080p does not look as good as a 1080p source being displayed at 1080p. So if your looking for a 1080p specific display, be sure that it can accept a 1080p input source!
Very good advice. Only that I would specify that 1080i to 1080p can look absolutely identical to one another. 1080i is simply 1080p broken apart into two separate fields. If these fields are flagged, as most are, and if the TV has a real deinterlacer, then it will recombine the two fields back to the original 1080p signal.

Unfortunately, many 1080p TV's in the past did not have deinterlacers that worked properly with 1080i signals, but this is not so much the case any longer.

In addition, most 1080p displays that are made now all accept 1080p signals. 👍







We will sitting between 5 and 10 feet from this set. So you think I could tell the difference. Do not buy an upscaled version of 1080p...check. 👍
Sitting 10' away from 36" TV will give you a 3.8 D:W - from 5' away it will give you a D:W of 1.9, in either case, that is low/close enough for anyone with 20:20 vision (natural or corrected) to easily tell the difference between 1080p and 720p when looking at images that were originally captured in 1080p or greater resolutions, and have a lot of detail, like faces, clothes, panoramic shots, outdoor scenes, etc.

This is why the best looking standard def DVDs are all computer animations... as they do not have as much detail to render as real life, thus even in low defintion, they can look great.
 
This is not to say that 720p TVs are not adequate, and in fact if it were me, I’d spend more money on better quality images, then higher resolution… ideally you’d want both, but a great looking 720p TV with vibrant accurate deep colors, and superb black levels, shadow detail, and contrast is going to completely outshine any crappy looking 1080p TV ay day of the week, even when watching the very best 1080p video that is out there (which for me is easily the Planet Earth series, which just came out on Blu-ray and HD DVD today!)

It was all going so well until I came to this paragraph. I was thinking that a 1080p was the right choice. But then you say a higher quality 720p is better then a budget 1080p. :banghead: Am I over thinking this or can nobody get a good grasp on new TVs. I'm thinking we just have too many choices.
 
In addition, most 1080p displays that are made now all accept 1080p signals. 👍

I wanted to note this specifically because the Toshiba you mentioned in your first post does not accept 1080p input signal as far as I can tell from the printable spec sheet.

Edited:
It was all going so well until I came to this paragraph. I was thinking that a 1080p was the right choice. But then you say a higher quality 720p is better then a budget 1080p. :banghead: Am I over thinking this or can nobody get a good grasp on new TVs. I'm thinking we just have too many choices.

The more choices the better. Personally, I would stay away from 720p and even 1080i limited sets unless your budget limits you to such. I've been thinking about upgrading my 60" recently. It's a great TV, but knowing it could look better at 1080p vs. 1080i keeps that voice active in the back of my head. At the time, 1080p wasn't a viable technology....but the loss I would have to take on this TV to go from 1080i to 1080p is too much right now...but in a couple years perhaps it can be justified.

Just my thoughts.....
 
I wanted to note this specifically because the Toshiba you mentioned in your first post does not accept 1080p input signal as far as I can tell from the printable spec sheet
Excellent point! To be fair to Toshiba though, that was a TV that was made over a year ago. I suspect all, or close to all their 1080p TVs now all accpet 1080p signals. 👍





It was all going so well until I came to this paragraph. I was thinking that a 1080p was the right choice. But then you say a higher quality 720p is better then a budget 1080p. :banghead: Am I over thinking this or can nobody get a good grasp on new TVs. I'm thinking we just have too many choices.
I feel your pain believe me.

Ten years ago the choices were fairly simple. CRT... and what size would you like it in. :D

Now...
  • You have to pick between CRT (although it is pretty much phased out), LCD, DLP, LCoS (D-ILA, SXRD), Plasma, etc...
  • Then you have to pick from Flat Panel, Direct View, Rear Projection, Front Projection, etc...
  • Then you have to pick what resolution you want, contrast, lumens/brightness, inputs, version HDMI it has, etc...
  • Then you have to compare video processors, scalers, deinterlacers, etc...
  • Then you have to check and compare features...
It is a brutal world out there for any would be TV shopper!

The good news though is TVs are generally much better and much cheaper than they have ever been in the past! 👍👍


To answer your question though, as I said earlier, there is no substitute for a high quality picture, and no amount of resolution can make up for a crappy picture. So for me, my recommendation is to always first make a short list in regards to image quality that are within your budget, then if any of them happen to also be in 1080p, pick from those. 👍

Personally though, as fast as display technology is progressing, and as fast as prices are dropping, I would recommend spending less now, knowing that in 2-3 years you will replace it with a much better TV and will lose very little in depreciation compared to buying a $5,000 high-end TV today only to find out that three years later it is being outperformed by $1,000 TVs, and replacing it will force you to sell your $5,000 TV for about $500. :ouch:

That isn’t to say there aren’t some very good bargains out there for 1080p displays with very good picture quality... which is why this thread was started. So it is possible to have both high quality and high resolution without spending a fortune. 👍
 
edit...You answered my question as I was typing this post.

I can't +rep you at the moment but I certainly appreciate your help!
 
I'm not as rich as you bastards but I've been eyeing this. Other than that I'm trying to hold out as long as I can because I know this technology will get better and better.

edit: mine isn't 1080p btw.
 
*snip*
Personally though, as fast as display technology is progressing, and as fast as prices are dropping, I would recommend spending less now, knowing that in 2-3 years you will replace it with a much better TV and will lose very little in depreciation compared to buying a $5,000 high-end TV today only to find out that three years later it is being outperformed by $1,000 TVs, and replacing it will force you to sell your $5,000 TV for about $500. :ouch:
*snip*

Great advise. The quoted situation is unfortunately were I am at today. I paid roughly $3500 for my LCD rear projection. If I were to sell it today, I would want $1000-1500 for it, but would be lucky to get $500 with no HDMI inputs and no built in HDTV tuner. It's also too big just graduate it upstairs or to the bedroom to make room for a new TV. I'm sure my son would love to have it in his room, but again it's too big.
 
What about laser tvs? Are they going to be better than plasma and LCD sets? From what I've read it seems it'll be cheaper and better but I would like to hear your opinions about it.
 
As excited as I got over SED...
and to see where that went...
I'm holding off any excitement over laser light engines. After all, there has been talk about laser's replacing lamps in displays as far back as 1990. I like the idea, but frankly I think displays using LED lights may be better, and cost effective. That said, I'm still going to hold off my enthusiasm until we see some actual consumer products. :)
 
OK, let me ask a very wide-open question. Assume I'm virtually clueless about current TV types and associated jargon. I don't need to be taught the technical basics here (I'll find that info elsewhere when the time comes). But speaking strategically, can I have some short-answer recommendations.

I'm probably not buying a TV this year as I have a serviceable 36" (or so) Wega CRT that has no issues. It handles analog cable, regular DVD, and PS2 duties. However, it's obviously a dwindling technology. Comcast is pestering me to go digital, and FiOS has recently become available. Someday I'll buy a PS3. I'm going to have to deal with all those changes eventually. So...
  • I don't need to be cutting edge new or utmost quality - I prefer to adopt technologies once they've matured a bit, buy high quality stuff, and ride it as long as possible. When is TV technology likely to hit a somewhat stable plateau in the near future that will be worth waiting to adopt?
  • The new TV will definitely have to deal with moderate to heavy gaming use. What type should I get?
Thanks!
 
FYI: It has been brought to my attention that I may not have been clear on exactly how to calculate D:W

For the example I gave earlier, in that from 10 feet away a 40" TV would give you a D:W of 3.4 - this is how I calculated it:
Code:
D   = Distance = 10.0 feet
W   = Width    =  2.9 feet [i](a 40" widescreen TV has a screen width of 36" = 2.9 feet)[/i]
D:W = 10/2.9   =  3.4
Hopefully that made it a little more clear. :)





Great advise. The quoted situation is unfortunately were I am at today. I paid roughly $3500 for my LCD rear projection. If I were to sell it today, I would want $1000-1500 for it, but would be lucky to get $500 with no HDMI inputs and no built in HDTV tuner. It's also too big just graduate it upstairs or to the bedroom to make room for a new TV. I'm sure my son would love to have it in his room, but again it's too big.
I defininetly know the feeling. I have had a lot of expensive HT gear that I just ended up giving away as I couldn't bare selling them for as little as they would go for on the open market. In some cases I just ended up holding on to them.

In fact, I still have the first DLP projector I bought, a Proxima DS1, which I paid over $7,000 for in 1998 and has a resolution of only 800x600, a contrast ratio of 250:1, only 650 lumens, and a 1st gen color wheel that caused constant rainbow effects! :ouch:

I also still have the Studio Experience 12SF DLP projector (rebadged and tweaked InFocus ScreenPlay LS110), which I bought in early 2002 for $5,000. It has a resolution of 848x600 (the very cool multi-matrix chip from TI), a contrast ratio of 600:1, 1000 lumens, a 4th gen 6-seg color wheel with no rainbows, and was the first projector to come with an HDCP compliant DVI input (the precursor to HDMI)

Now I use a Pansonic AE1000U LCD projector, which cost me less than $3,000; has a resolution of 1920x1080, a contrast ratio of 11,000:1, 1100 lumens, 2 HDMI inputs, and a fantastic image quality! In fact, this projector completely outperforms a Sony G90 or Madrigal MP9 or Vidikron V1, all of which were sold for over $50,000 each only ten years ago.

The Proxima may eventually be worth something considering it was one of the first ever DLP projectors, but the 12SF is worth only $500. :eek:






  • I don't need to be cutting edge new or utmost quality - I prefer to adopt technologies once they've matured a bit, buy high quality stuff, and ride it as long as possible. When is TV technology likely to hit a somewhat stable plateau in the near future that will be worth waiting to adopt?
  • The new TV will definitely have to deal with moderate to heavy gaming use. What type should I get?
Thanks!
The easy answer is none for now...

I'm probably not buying a TV this year as I have a serviceable 36" (or so) Wega CRT that has no issues.
👍

Because technology is moving so fast, trying to give recommendations for a year away is not going to be very helpful for you as much can change between now and then. If all is well with what you have now, stick with it. When you are really ready to dive in to the digital HDTV pool, I'll be happy to get you up to speed with some ideas that will best fit your needs. 👍
 
The easy answer is none for now...

👍

Because technology is moving so fast, trying to give recommendations for a year away is not going to be very helpful for you as much can change between now and then. If all is well with what you have now, stick with it. When you are really ready to dive in to the digital HDTV pool, I'll be happy to get you up to speed with some ideas that will best fit your needs. 👍
Well, that was kind of the over-arching question, and maybe it's not really answerable, or I didn't ask it well. I was more looking for a broad idea of when the technology might hit a point that the mid-high-end consumer stuff can be expected to have a reasonable useful life, and I should dive in.

Obviously it's like a computer - anything you actually buy will be instantly superseded. But there are definitely wise and unwise eras in which to buy a computer. I'm just looking for a quick pointer on when the next wise era is likely to occur for TV tech.

And thanks very much for your offer of assistance. I'll definitely take you up on it and probably pester you to death. Just ask ///M-Spec.
 
Well, that was kind of the over-arching question, and maybe it's not really answerable, or I didn't ask it well. I was more looking for a broad idea of when the technology might hit a point that the mid-high-end consumer stuff can be expected to have a reasonable useful life, and I should dive in.
In that case, now is actually a pretty good time to dive in. You can get some very good large screen HDTVs and projectors for under $2,000, and smaller HDTVs for under $1,000.

Obviously it's like a computer - anything you actually buy will be instantly superseded. But there are definitely wise and unwise eras in which to buy a computer. I'm just looking for a quick pointer on when the next wise era is likely to occur for TV tech.
The reason now is better than before is that we wont see mass market displays over 1080p any time soon, where as even ten years ago the industry knew they were heading towards digital 1080p displays.

Now there will be some improvements in video processors, light engines, panel designs, etc, but unlike in the past, the difference between the better HDTVs today compared to what they might be like in three years is going to be marginal compared to the difference between today's better HDTVs compared to those from three years ago.

One thing that will change is pricing though, but that to has been showing signs of slowing down. The fact that you can walk into a Costco and buy 32" 720p flat panel LCD for $500 or a 65" 1080p rear projection TV for under $2,000... I don't expect we will see drastic drops in prices as we have seen in the past.
 
The reason now is better than before is that we wont see mass market displays over 1080p any time soon... but unlike in the past, the difference between the better HDTVs today compared to what they might be like in three years is going to be marginal compared to the difference between today's better HDTVs compared to those from three years ago.
That's exactly what I was looking to hear. The fundamental 1080p technology is likely to be around for 5-10 years (or more?), and the TVs themselves are off the steep part of the improvement curve and reaching that plateau area. So it sounds like next year will be a good time to get a decent price on a solid, long-lasting, mid-high-quality set.

Thanks for the help!
 
Here is the TV I ended buying. I picked it up for $1299 it seems like I got some value for my money. I do have an observation so far about what I see. I don't have the true HD signal coming into the house yet, but with standard connection I see that any text or graphics are crystal clear but human faces for example seem a bit lagging or blurry with the pixels. Will that correct itself with the HD signal?

click for The details

tellc32d62upic2h174tf9.jpg
 
A couple of things I look for, response time, contrast, available inputs.... They all look good, nice purchase!

Not sure if you have one yet, but have you seen a PS3 game or Blue Ray movie on it yet at 1080P? That should give you some nice results. :)
 
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