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JLBowler
With that being said, the league penalty system would need to be tweaked a little bit. A slight corner cut that gains nothing and is accidental would not be worthy of a DQ in my mind.

Maybe a progressive system for corner cutting could be implemented. Something like 1 point for the first corner cut, 2 points for the second, 3 points for the third, and DQ for the fourth.

Turning off penalties would also allow drivers more room to avoid contact by using the runoff areas without fear of getting docked six to nine seconds for avoiding another car. Someone stated earlier that this is the first league they have run with penalties on. That is the same for me. The league I used to run was done with penalties off and we had far fewer issues with them off than I have seen here with them on.
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I agree with the concepts you've laid out there Bowler. The issue for the league is enforcement.

In qualifying, where you basically run alone, it's not possible to enforce.

In a race it's only possible to enforce if 1) a driver lodges a protest about another driver cutting corners 2) steward(s) review every race from every drivers perspective.

1) Is plausible but leaves the door open for people running alone, at the front or in a gap, to cut at will, no one to witness the infraction.

2) Is not reasonable to expect the steward(s) to sit through an hour of racing per driver (9 to 12 hours worth). And would likely mean the official results would be severely delayed and we would go through Stewards like, well you know :)

I may have a narrow focus about this issue, if there are ways to deal with it and keep within the GTP OLR, I'm all ears.
 
There is a good argument each way for tye penalties. Maybe the Wdnesday race could be with penalties off, to see how it would pan out.

I really don't see the need for penalties though. The people that cause problems will get their just punishment, it would just have to wait till after the race, instead of be immediately givin by the game. I'm hoping everyone in this league is respectful enough to run a clean race.

My ultimate vote is for penalties off. Being that we should not even need them, and can keep an eye on trouble makers and deal with them accordingly and properly without them.
 
kcheeb
I agree with the concepts you've laid out there Bowler. The issue for the league is enforcement.

In qualifying, where you basically run alone, it's not possible to enforce.

In a race it's only possible to enforce if 1) a driver lodges a protest about another driver cutting corners 2) steward(s) review every race from every drivers perspective.

1) Is plausible but leaves the door open for people running alone, at the front or in a gap, to cut at will, no one to witness the infraction.

2) Is not reasonable to expect the steward(s) to sit through an hour of racing per driver (9 to 12 hours worth). And would likely mean the official results would be severely delayed and we would go through Stewards like, well you know :)

I may have a narrow focus about this issue, if there are ways to deal with it and keep within the GTP OLR, I'm all ears.
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In qualifying I think we should leave penalties on because there is no replay.

1: I would hope nobody here would race that way and cut corners just because they can.

2: It would be a much faster process becasue a complaint could go right to the stewards for review and then it's a matter of having a set penalty in place, something similar to what I laid out above.

What it comes down to is each driver having a respect for the rules and staying within them. It's my feeling that the penalty system is so flawed that it creates more issues than it solves.

I would even volunteer to be the steward that looks at all corner cutting complaints. I would also scan all the races for any corner cutting weather there was a complaint or not.
 
Having penalties on for qual and off for the race is a tricky business just because someone has to leave their position to go out to the lobby and change the setting. The only one who can do that unaffected is the person who qualified last. This is not a problem so long as everyone is aware and on board with that.

I'm willing to give it a try on a trial basis, as it adds realism, which I'm for.
 
The penalty system has never affected me in a way that I felt was unfair. There were a few times I went off track to avoid an accident and got a 5 second penalty. In hindsight, it was beneficial because my dirty tires would have probably caused me to just spin out.

My vote is for Penalties On.


I know Vol has had tremendous trouble with this PS3, so maybe someone else can fix this. On the D3 sheet for this past Sunday the position changes are all negative for the first race of each combo.
 
JLBowler
In qualifying I think we should leave penalties on because there is no replay.

1: I would hope nobody here would race that way and cut corners just because they can.

2: It would be a much faster process becasue a complaint could go right to the stewards for review and then it's a matter of having a set penalty in place, something similar to what I laid out above.

What it comes down to is each driver having a respect for the rules and staying within them. It's my feeling that the penalty system is so flawed that it creates more issues than it solves.

I would even volunteer to be the steward that looks at all corner cutting complaints. I would also scan all the races for any corner cutting weather there was a complaint or not.
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1: Me too 👍

2: Complaints are to be resolved by the individuals involved first, if they're unable to then a Steward review takes place. As you said there would need to be a set of rules to govern the infractions.

Whatever system that is in place is there to protect the people that follow the rules and punish the people that don't. A balancing act ensues :)

We have a pretty extensive list of Stewards that are able to review the incidents as they come up. As a league we don't want to make being a Steward a full time job for anyone, it takes time from racing :)

I'm up for a test, we could try it out on Wednesday night practice.
 
BeRandom
I know Vol has had tremendous trouble with this PS3, so maybe someone else can fix this. On the D3 sheet for this past Sunday the position changes are all negative for the first race of each combo.
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They're all negative because Vol can't view the replays to post the missing info, qualifying position being the cause for the negatives numbers.

I'll see if I have time tonight to download the replays and update the numbers.
 
Would be nice if PD implemented two kinds of penalties. Collision penalties off, with shortcut penalties on and I think that would solve a lot.
 
It would solve a lot if the shortcut penalties made any sense. There are spots where you can get an advantage without incurring a penalty, and others where you get a penalty for an off that couldn't POSSIBLY provide an advantage.
 
JaySin85
Would be nice if PD implemented two kinds of penalties. Collision penalties off, with shortcut penalties on and I think that would solve a lot.
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Yeah, that would be awesome. They should let us choose which penalties we want to allow (just like they let us choose what driving aids we want to allow):

EVENT SETTINGS:

Penalties:
  • Shortcut: On
  • Collision: Off
  • Ghosting: Off

Anyone have Kaz's direct line?
 
Anyone have the replay?

I'm a steward, but only for dirty muscle racing division 7.
 
See... what had happened was... my poor 4-speed was topping out at about 112mph so I was checking in my rear view mirror for approaching cars. I saw dude coming up fast so I went to politely move out of his way, but due to the mirror's reflectosity, divergent refraction rating, and SCIENCE... I swerved in the wrong direction. There MIGHT have been a little contact?
 
I had clearly indicated my intentions to leave the proper racing line and purposefully ram another driver into the wall well before he made contact.
 
dudeondacouch
I had clearly indicated my intentions to leave the proper racing line and purposefully ram another driver into the wall well before he made contact.
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As the official Monday mayhem officiator, I agree. You clearly indicated your intentions, this does not hold to the high standard of dirty, therefore you are docked all positions and I am now first in all events, thank you for bringing this to my attention! Have a splendid day.
 
Thanks rally!

I gladly accept forfeiture of my positions to see justice served.

Spooble, I apologize for having to bring this incident before an officiator, but let it serve as a lesson to you.
 
Rallywagon
As the official Monday mayhem officiator, I agree. You clearly indicated your intentions, this does not hold to the high standard of dirty, therefore you are docked all positions and I am now first in all events, thank you for bringing this to my attention! Have a splendid day.
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Since it's a 'dirty' event, shouldn't you be awarding points for not following the lack of rules???
 
I think my intent to not break rules that don't exist is being viewed as contrary to expectations of failing to follow the lack of rules.

If you think of it this way, I was certainly out of line.

I won't let it happen again.
 
spooble
See... what had happened was... my poor 4-speed was topping out at about 112mph so I was checking in my rear view mirror for approaching cars. I saw dude coming up fast so I went to politely move out of his way, but due to the mirror's reflectosity, divergent refraction rating, and SCIENCE... I swerved in the wrong direction. There MIGHT have been a little contact?
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Aren't things in mirrors reversed anyway. I know when I try to read something in a mirror the letters are always backwards. Oh yea, I think things in mirrors are closer than they appear as well.
 
dude was clearly in the wrong as far as the rules are concerned, but Rally's close consideration of the lack of rule non-following and subsequent penalty given based on the dis-consideration of said lack of rules clearly puts him at odds with the non-stated un-rules that were clear and present in the aforementioned event.

The points go to whomever finished second to last.
 
Speechless, eh?

Alright. The lap count for tonight's Apmaddock's Enduro Challenge has been set at 50. I ran five laps with the DS3 and managed a best in the 1:30s. 1:30 X 50 laps = 75 minutes. Add time for crappy tire runs, pits, and generally less-than-perfect laps and we'll be somewhere between 75 and 90 minutes as planned.

Again, qualifying will begin at about 10:20 Eastern Time.

See here for more details.
 

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