◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open

[Falango]

well tbh you can't really pass at all without giving up time . The winner will be determined by who gets pole the first time, and who gets to the front asap the second time

my .02

Passing without losing time is almost impossible, because you almost always have to go off the racing line.

Your second observation was pretty obvious. Yes, the driver that gets to the front will win!

 

[FloptaStr8]

That is a well though out opinion. I have a differing opinion about passing. When I tested this with 10 cars on track, passing was not all that difficult. It was not immediate in nature but there are places to set up and make a pass if you know what you're doing. I was racing with a group of guys that I have been racing with since the days of GT5p and we swapped positions on a regular basis. We were able to run side by side for entire laps and lose less than a second to someone running by themselves. We had to work our passes and a few guys were able to make up six and seven spots in one race. Our little group is pretty evenly matched, probably the equal to one and a half divisions in the middle of SNAIL for a spread between all of us.

As for my advice about picking a car you like and a track which is easy to pass. Based on my testing, I did that. Maybe I overestimated the ability of this group in comparison to this other group of clean, respectful, patient drivers.

Keep in mind it makes a huge difference when the group is extremely familiar with each and every driver.
I would say that type of familiarity is not the case here. Familiar, yes, but not as close knit as your GT5p guys.

And our divisions are not near as close/similar in skill levels as your group.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

This board is full of passive aggression and it's getting a bit old. Stand up for what you mean and say it regardless of the consequences or play nice.

 

[fizzer]

well tbh you can't really pass at all without giving up time . I was in the blue room last night with guys who were about a second and a half faster than me running almost 30s and they could barely pass me without losing time on me and having to get back into the line. I really think the winner will be determined by who gets pole the first time, and who gets to the front asap the second time

my .02

I think the combo exemplifies the "it takes two to tango" aspect of proper overtaking.

It is fairly easy to keep a faster driver behind by running defensively. However, is that always the best choice? The reverse grid races will show this especially. Sure you can stack up 5 faster drivers behind you for 10 laps, but one little mistake and you'll lose 5 spots in a heartbeat. A better choice may be to allow an overtaking driver by if they get a good run and get along side a little bit. That could avoid the stack up in the first place and you might finish the race only losing 1 or two spots instead of 5 (or zero). Risk/reward decision there.

Passing is still possible with drivers running similar pace. You can usually get along side with a sacrificial line and force some side by side racing with the potential to get in front. But it does require some logical thinking from the guy you're racing. The same choice comes into play. Do I let this guy get in front and attempt a counter move later? Or do I keep forcing the side by side until I stay in front with the risk that I'm letting others behind catch up?

No matter the combo, when racing for position, its always important to consider the effect of your choices on your total race time. Attacking and defending both have the potential to reduce your ultimate finishing position. This "whole race situational awareness" mentality I find is a big differentiator in both sim and real racing.

Is it the most fun combo I've raced? No, but I do appreciate the change of pace. I like off the wall combos now and again racing nothing but 550ish pp cars on real tracks can get boring if that's all we race.

That said, I would be surprised and a little disappointed if this isn't a one-and-done since the other two combos are fun cars on decently racey tracks.

 

[Dr_Strange]

I must say it is disconcerting to hear so many thinly veiled condescending comments from the league director.

Apparently only the inner circle of his long time friends can truly possess the talent, patience and race craft to appreciate this combo.

Apparently this is the only remaining defense mechanism for him because the whole "I'm not a hypocrite" thing wasn't working for him. So the last gasp was to basically call everyone who doesn't like this combo losers and poor drivers.

I consider myself a patient driver with good race craft. A lowly D7/D6 driver so obviously not in the inner circle of people who REALLY know how to race.

I do like to follow who "likes" posts from certain people. There are definitely two factions of people here. You have a very few people in the management who continually like each other's posts and then the "Le Resistance" group who don't like having their intelligence insulted.

I think it's important to remember that many of us are actual grown men with real educations, jobs and families. Many of whom can read between the lines and decipher the condescension of some of the management. I don't personally know many of you but I do see that Zero started this league and no longer participates. But he has appointed certain representatives to run the day to day operations. I think maybe some of these choices may have strayed from the original ideals the league was founded upon. The ideals are what grew this league to over a hundred people and 8 divisions but there appears to be a lot of division fostered by some in charge.

When the league representative doesn't give two "rats asses" what we think then it speaks volumes.

I tried to use decent grammar and not be derogatory as apparently it doesn't take much to ban people around here.

 

[Schmiggz]

It's a thinking man's race. Positions will be earned through careful planning and proper execution.

Do you really, really, really believe in what you just said???
NO IT WON'T, LOL! Positions will be earned if the guy in front of you makes a silly mistake, and only if that happens.
I challenge you, J to pass me in 30 laps. I really do.

 

[Rallywagon]

I think the combo exemplifies the "it takes two to tango" aspect of proper overtaking.

It is fairly easy to keep a faster driver behind by running defensively. However, is that always the best choice? The reverse grid races will show this especially. Sure you can stack up 5 faster drivers behind you for 10 laps, but one little mistake and you'll lose 5 spots in a heartbeat. A better choice may be to allow an overtaking driver by if they get a good run and get along side a little bit. That could avoid the stack up in the first place and you might finish the race only losing 1 or two spots instead of 5 (or zero). Risk/reward decision there.

Passing is still possible with drivers running similar pace. You can usually get along side with a sacrificial line and force some side by side racing with the potential to get in front. But it does require some logical thinking from the guy you're racing. The same choice comes into play. Do I let this guy get in front and attempt a counter move later? Or do I keep forcing the side by side until I stay in front with the risk that I'm letting others behind catch up?

No matter the combo, when racing for position, its always important to consider the effect of your choices on your total race time. Attacking and defending both have the potential to reduce your ultimate finishing position. This "whole race situational awareness" mentality I find is a big differentiator in both sim and real racing.

Is it the most fun combo I've raced? No, but I do appreciate the change of pace. I like off the wall combos now and again racing nothing but 550ish pp cars on real tracks can get boring if that's all we race.

That said, I would be surprised and a little disappointed if this isn't a one-and-done since the other two combos are fun cars on decently racey tracks.

I used to be of a mind to always run a blocking line when someone was right behind me. I would jump to the inside and make the guy behind hold a wider line. Then I started paying attention to replays, and I noticed how much that plan hurt me over all, by not taking a proper line, I was allowing traffic further behind to catch up. While I can see some merit to being defensive is some situations, I've learned that it is almost always better to just run the fast line, and if you get passed, tuck up being them and use their draft to stay with them and put more distance between yourself and trailing cars. You can also learn the lead drivers braking points and lines and possibly try to retake the position from them. In the end you may lose a spot, but chances are you were going to anyway, and probably more by being defensive.

 

[JLBowler]

To anyone concerned. My comments about combo selection this week have been removed. They were directed at a very small group that consist of an inactive by his own choice SNAIL, and two of the most penalized drivers in the history of SNAIL. They were not directed at anyone else. They have been removed and I regret wasting the time and effort it took to post them because these three individuals are simply not worth my time and it polluted the thread and gave other members the wrong idea. I apologize for that and will try and do a better job of ignoring the unimportant individuals that I felt the need to reply to this week.

 

[GTP_Nail]

Personally I grow VERY tired of guys bitching about combos selected by WINNERS.

The VAST majority of us like this organization and DISLIKE the constant bitching. If you can't say something constructive...shut up and drive....and if you don't like the combo...oh well...you'll get over it.

 

[chevron]

AWWW LOOK, PUPPIES!!!

 

[IceWarden]

Explain to me how this is not a derogatory remark against "other" SNAIL members? I thought we had rules in this Thread... or don't they apply to everyone?

This.

 

[Falango]

Is it Sunday yet? That's when the talking should be done, with thousands of tiny explosions inside metal parts flying around. Til then, let's continue with puppy pictures, and maybe the occasional story of awesome battles in practice proving those wrong that would rather bash combos. SNAIL isn't called Super Negative And Insulting League, am I right?

 

[TomMang_68]

I guess this explains why drivers, engineers, commentators and fans HATE the Monaco Grand Prix...

Monaco has always been my most favorite F1 race to watch and is on my bucket list if I ever get rich enough to go.
I get the sarcasm but next time give us a clue by adding a wink or a nod.

Ite Ite nudge nudge say no more

 

[MartinJohn88]

On a mission currently to beat all 5. 1 and 2 are top rpgs of all time

Damn straight, I replayed through them recently. Done the third (not released in UK which is annoying, was hard to get it back then) still enjoyed it, but it was just different, same with four. The 5th kind of steps back to the roots. Good luck in getting them done! Classic series. There's tactics aswell if you like that kinda thing. Here's hoping for a 6th! (probably wont happen)

Monaco has always been my most favorite F1 race to watch and is on my bucket list if I ever get rich enough to go.
I get the sarcasm but next time give us a clue by adding a wink or a nod.

Ite Ite nudge nudge say no more

Haha, yeah, me and my friends were going to go as the actual tickets themselves aren't that expensive compared to others...staying in monaco though, oooooooft. You could maybe find somewhere close by cheaper, but i'm guessing it'll be pretty pricey to buy things whilst there. For the same money we managed to get a roadtrip from amsterdam to spa, and then back to amsterdam for a couple days before going home. Was epic.

 

[Falango]

Monaco has always been my most favorite F1 race to watch and is on my bucket list if I ever get rich enough to go.
I get the sarcasm but next time give us a clue by adding a wink or a nod.

Ite Ite nudge nudge say no more

Monaco is on my list of grand prixs to watch too! I don't have a yacht big enough yet though, so it could be a while.....

 

[postman09]

Quick question. Is there a particular reason why there isn't any racing done in the wet? I noticed in the track setting surface water must be set to zero

 

[postman09]

Damn straight, I replayed through them recently. Done the third (not released in UK which is annoying, was hard to get it back then) still enjoyed it, but it was just different, same with four. The 5th kind of steps back to the roots. Good luck in getting them done! Classic series. There's tactics aswell if you like that kinda thing. Here's hoping for a 6th! (probably wont happen)



Haha, yeah, me and my friends were going to go as the actual tickets themselves aren't that expensive compared to others...staying in monaco though, oooooooft. You could maybe find somewhere close by cheaper, but i'm guessing it'll be pretty pricey to buy things whilst there. For the same money we managed to get a roadtrip from amsterdam to spa, and then back to amsterdam for a couple days before going home. Was epic.

There was one for vita but i think its japan only. Sorry for double post

 

[MartinJohn88]

There was one for vita but i think its japan only. Sorry for double post

I was trying to learn japanese to play the shining force 3 games, but then someone (team of people) translated the whole thing! Not sure how easy it is to emulate vita though to apply translations to games like this though. One day.

I had a friend that tried to use google translate to play through some japanese games! Haha, he managed to complete it, but was a little lost in the story, can't remember which game at the moment.

 

[postman09]

I was trying to learn japanese to play the shining force 3 games, but then someone (team of people) translated the whole thing! Not sure how easy it is to emulate vita though to apply translations to games like this though. One day.

I had a friend that tried to use google translate to play through some japanese games! Haha, he managed to complete it, but was a little lost in the story, can't remember which game at the moment.

Ya i tried doing that with initial battle stage lol. Just ended up not caring about what they were saying and memorizing the menus

 

[Wolfsatz]

Is it Sunday yet? That's when the talking should be done, with thousands of tiny explosions inside metal parts flying around. Til then, let's continue with puppy pictures, and maybe the occasional story of awesome battles in practice proving those wrong that would rather bash combos. SNAIL isn't called Super Negative And Insulting League, am I right?

Who needs a group hug?

When being overtaken up the inside on the run up to a tight high speed corner, like 130R on Suzuka for instance, the competitive driver with good racecraft recognises when the battle is lost & will yield by coming off the throttle or even braking a little if necessary, so that both cars can make the apex of the corner at pretty much full racing speed. The overly optimistic driver will carry on around the outside at full throttle in a dangerous attempt to defend his position, which is clearly already lost. You will not see top class racers out on track performing in this way, as this kind of optimism can lead to a catastrophic & entirely unnecessary incident. However, a possible exception to these scenarios might be when two intelligent drivers are more or less alongside each other on the run up to 130R & battling for position on the final lap, where driving slower & side by side through the corner to keep track position would lead to a win, or a higher finishing position.

 

[IceWarden]

Quick question. Is there a particular reason why there isn't any racing done in the wet? I noticed in the track setting surface water must be set to zero

You can't specify an exact amount of water on the track and have it stay that way the entire race, across all divisions. Once you specify weather change the computer takes over. One division might get more rain than the other so the times and results are not comparable across all divisions.

 

[singlepaddy]

I used to be of a mind to always run a blocking line when someone was right behind me. I would jump to the inside and make the guy behind hold a wider line. Then I started paying attention to replays, and I noticed how much that plan hurt me over all, by not taking a proper line, I was allowing traffic further behind to catch up. While I can see some merit to being defensive is some situations, I've learned that it is almost always better to just run the fast line, and if you get passed, tuck up being them and use their draft to stay with them and put more distance between yourself and trailing cars. You can also learn the lead drivers braking points and lines and possibly try to retake the position from them. In the end you may lose a spot, but chances are you were going to anyway, and probably more by being defensive.

After reading your post and watching replays from last nights practice I came to realization that you are describing my situation right now.
It seems I have earned a reputation as being very difficult to pass at times... much to the annoyance of some of my competitors. After watching replays I have to admit that I think my passion for racing has led to some stubbornness on track and a needless urge to fight tooth and nail for every position.

Anyway I liked to say sorry to the guys last night for being a "royal pain in the ass " as someone so eloquently put it, and anyone else who feels I may have wronged on the track.
I will definitely keep trying to improve my racecraft so everyone can have a better experience.

See you all Sunday

 

[chevron]

Our Throwback Thursday has bled into a Flashback Friday!

JRPGs (Japanese Role Playing Games) just haven't been able to hook me since I played FFVII - I still complete a game of FFVII every now and then. It's super pedestrian in terms of complexity and story, but it's like Gaming comfort food...

Action RPGs are more of a big thing for me, stuff like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect and the like. Spent a TON of time in Destiny recently as well - Something about a shooter with stats, leveling, and abilities that really excites me!

The typically static, turn based nature, androgynous/perverse characters, and bizzare storytelling of JRPGs bug the CRAP out of me... I know there are good ones out there, just not my bag

 

[postman09]

You can't specify an exact amount of water on the track and have it stay that way the entire race, across all divisions. Once you specify weather change the computer takes over. One division might get more rain than the other so the times and results are not comparable across all divisions.

Can't you just set "Surface Water at Race Start" and "Weather at Race Start" to specific values then set "Time Progression" and "Weather Changeabilty" to 0?

 

[Rallywagon]

You can't specify an exact amount of water on the track and have it stay that way the entire race, across all divisions. Once you specify weather change the computer takes over. One division might get more rain than the other so the times and results are not comparable across all divisions.

I don't think that is quite true. If rain settings are both all the way up, water of track and weather, than the water % will stay 100 the entire race.

Yes, what postman just said.

To the point of this discussion though, its another dead horse. We have had this discussion several times over the years. I do not foresee it changing.

Our Throwback Thursday has bled into a Flashback Friday!
JRPGs (Japanese Role Playing Games) just haven't been able to hook me since I played FFVII - I still complete a game of FFVII every now and then. It's super pedestrian in terms of complexity and story, but it's like Gaming comfort food...
Action RPGs are more of a big thing for me, stuff like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect and the like. Spent a TON of time in Destiny recently as well - Something about a shooter with stats, leveling, and abilities that really excites me!
The typically static, turn based nature, androgynous/perverse characters, and bizzare storytelling of JRPGs bug the CRAP out of me... I know there are good ones out there, just not my bag

FFVII was the last I played as well. I am not much for RPG's though. Even the MMORPGs grate on me after a month. I am not good for grinding, at all. I play games for the enjoyment of playing the game. If I have to grind for hours on end to level up, or pay out the butt to do it, I am not going to play it for very long

 

[postman09]

That is a shame. Wet weather racing would be fun. Theoretically more mistakes would be made and passing would be easier. However I'm not speaking from experience

 

[USERID_77a23]

After reading your post and watching replays from last nights practice I came to realization that you are describing my situation right now.
It seems I have earned a reputation as being very difficult to pass at times... much to the annoyance of some of my competitors. After watching replays I have to admit that I think my passion for racing has led to some stubbornness on track and a needless urge to fight tooth and nail for every position.

Anyway I liked to say sorry to the guys last night for being a "royal pain in the ass " as someone so eloquently put it, and anyone else who feels I may have wronged on the track.
I will definitely keep trying to improve my racecraft so everyone can have a better experience.

See you all Sunday

Paddy, you know the lines and you execute at your pace. Its always the faster guys job to get around cleanly. You just make them earn it . Good job buddy

 

[Rallywagon]

After reading your post and watching replays from last nights practice I came to realization that you are describing my situation right now.
It seems I have earned a reputation as being very difficult to pass at times... much to the annoyance of some of my competitors. After watching replays I have to admit that I think my passion for racing has led to some stubbornness on track and a needless urge to fight tooth and nail for every position.

Anyway I liked to say sorry to the guys last night for being a "royal pain in the ass " as someone so eloquently put it, and anyone else who feels I may have wronged on the track.
I will definitely keep trying to improve my racecraft so everyone can have a better experience.

See you all Sunday

I wasn't directing that towards you at all Paddy. I was just commenting on my bad habit. I was defensive to a fault and often caused myself more grief than good by being so.

 

[IceWarden]

View attachment 272346
Can't you just set "Surface Water at Race Start" and "Weather at Race Start" to specific values then set "Time Progression" and "Weather Changeabilty" to 0?

Whatever value you set to "weather" above 0% it says it will be worse conditions and "after a short time will change at random".

So you CAN have surface water at the start, weather at 0% and weather change ability at fixed. But it will be the specified wetness at the start and change as the race goes on.

There is no way to specify an exact condition to continue throughout the race unless you turn weather to 0, change ability to fixed and surface water to 0. So basically the only condition that will remain at a constant is sunny.

 

[Wardenclyffe]

Dec 12, 2011

Darn! We should have planned a special anniversary event for this weekend like a mini two-race 25 min endurance. One with a race car and one with a street car, mandatory pit stops, etc.

Also today is my "Old Folks" 61st wedding anniversary - still going strong.

Are folks down for a somewhat impromptu celebration tonight? I was thinking it might be fun to do a selection of combos from SNAIL and all it's offshoots. For example, we could run:
1 or more "classic" SNAIL Sunday night combos
1 "Concourse Car Club" combo
1 kart combo
1 cat & mouse combo
1 Racecar series inspired combo (40 minutes is likely too long for this kind of sampler platter)
Other combos from series and offshoots I forget or never knew existed

Thoughts?

Also, congrats to you and Major's parents; 61 years is quite an accomplishment!