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  • Thread starter zer05ive
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Thanks Grim. I love how all of this discussion happens here for Sunday yet in your racing leagues we race all divisions together false starts and it works perfectly. And you said everything I wanted to.
 
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I'm looking to come back in a week or two to D5. I need to update my racing wheel setup since I got a new racing game chair and it's a little bigger then my old one, so need to fix some stuff. Hope to see you all soon, stay classy.
 
GGGMotorsport
It is simply not real in any way. Has anyone here ever seen a race where all the cars can stand on the gas without using a brake and not move until some counter reads 3,2,1 and then everyone starts at the exact same moment in real life? No, because the 3,2,1 start is also unrealistic.

I've been running (and will continue to do so) the false start check in the RCS since the beginning and we rarely see any false starts during the season (unless DW is racing :nervous: ) and it was driver error. It does add a bit more skill in your reaction time to get a good start and even gain an advantage. You even called it out yourself stalls on the grid can be attributed to driver error. This is the same thing, You jump the start is because you made a driver error in jumping the start.


Edit - I understand it can cause mayhem at the starts and that is the reason for not instituting it and stick to it. But dont imply that the 3,2,1 start is any way more realistic than the False Start Check because it isn't. Neither system is realistic.
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This is exactly the point of not using the false start check. Neither system is in any way realistic. Using false start checks will only add to the mayhem that can be experienced at the start. Network latency will produce the stalls we all recognize as a "real" part of grid starts and simulate someone having mechanical issues. Those folks citing spreading the field out earlier are straying from one of the core ideas of the league. Close and clean racing. Close will not be helped by using false start checks and clean either.

False start checks are all fun and good, right up until you make that fantastic start, but the guy in front of you doesn't, and you get your eye poked out. If you join a series like the RCS, you accept the settings the race organizer has chosen to use and deal with it or not. As Grimm mentioned, I caused start grid mayhem on more than one occasion in that series and inevitably cost myself and others more than one position before we ever got across the start line. It's really not a good feeling to forget the setting is being used and realize at the last minute your method of launch is going to cause issues and there is practically nothing you can do about it. You can warn folks all you like, someone will not hear or heed the warning and it's all for naught.

I tried using the ebrake button so I could still use clutch launches and it was, for lack of practice I suspect, worse than getting a penalty. After failing miserably with that method, I reverted to just ignoring the clutch and left foot holding the brake until the lights went out. False start checks add another layer of complexity that, combined with the variable skill levels in our league, is not conducive to close and clean racing.
 
Dragonwhisky
This is exactly the point of not using the false start check. Neither system is in any way realistic. Using false start checks will only add to the mayhem that can be experienced at the start. Network latency will produce the stalls we all recognize as a "real" part of grid starts and simulate someone having mechanical issues. Those folks citing spreading the field out earlier are straying from one of the core ideas of the league. Close and clean racing. Close will not be helped by using false start checks and clean either.

False start checks are all fun and good, right up until you make that fantastic start, but the guy in front of you doesn't, and you get your eye poked out. If you join a series like the RCS, you accept the settings the race organizer has chosen to use and deal with it or not. As Grimm mentioned, I caused start grid mayhem on more than one occasion in that series and inevitably cost myself and others more than one position before we ever got across the start line. It's really not a good feeling to forget the setting is being used and realize at the last minute your method of launch is going to cause issues and there is practically nothing you can do about it. You can warn folks all you like, someone will not hear or heed the warning and it's all for naught.

I tried using the ebrake button so I could still use clutch launches and it was, for lack of practice I suspect, worse than getting a penalty. After failing miserably with that method, I reverted to just ignoring the clutch and left foot holding the brake until the lights went out. False start checks add another layer of complexity that, combined with the variable skill levels in our league, is not conducive to close and clean racing.
Click to expand...
K.
 
I would actually love for false start checks to be used. But, only if the penalty imposed were able to be programmed in for the AI to take control of your car near the pit lane entrance on that first lap and drive you through it at imposed pit lane speeds. That would be ever so much closer to reality. Polyphony Digital? Are you listening here?
 
Dragonwhisky
This is exactly the point of not using the false start check. Neither system is in any way realistic. Using false start checks will only add to the mayhem that can be experienced at the start. Network latency will produce the stalls we all recognize as a "real" part of grid starts and simulate someone having mechanical issues. Those folks citing spreading the field out earlier are straying from one of the core ideas of the league. Close and clean racing. Close will not be helped by using false start checks and clean either.

False start checks are all fun and good, right up until you make that fantastic start, but the guy in front of you doesn't, and you get your eye poked out. If you join a series like the RCS, you accept the settings the race organizer has chosen to use and deal with it or not. As Grimm mentioned, I caused start grid mayhem on more than one occasion in that series and inevitably cost myself and others more than one position before we ever got across the start line. It's really not a good feeling to forget the setting is being used and realize at the last minute your method of launch is going to cause issues and there is practically nothing you can do about it. You can warn folks all you like, someone will not hear or heed the warning and it's all for naught.

I tried using the ebrake button so I could still use clutch launches and it was, for lack of practice I suspect, worse than getting a penalty. After failing miserably with that method, I reverted to just ignoring the clutch and left foot holding the brake until the lights went out. False start checks add another layer of complexity that, combined with the variable skill levels in our league, is not conducive to close and clean racing.
Click to expand...

DW - I can understand why SNAIL Proper does not use the False Start check on Sunday nights. With such short races, it would be a death sentence for those impacted. Its not as big of an issue in RCS (or even TCS) as the races are longer and you can recover from the incident.

Being a race organizer, I took issue with the below statement and implying that the 3,2,1 start is the only way races should be organized since the False Start Checks are so unrealistic.

JLBowler
no race organizer in their right mind would do it because of the effect it would have on the other drivers on the grid. They are not created by the race organizer nor should they be..
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GGGMotorsport
DW - I can understand why SNAIL Proper does not use the False Start check on Sunday nights. With such short races, it would be a death sentence for those impacted. Its not as big of an issue in RCS (or even TCS) as the races are longer and you can recover from the incident.

Being a race organizer, I took issue with the below statement and implying that the 3,2,1 start is the only way races should be organized since the False Start Checks are so unrealistic.
Click to expand...
We, on Monday nights, also prefer the FSC start, and I was not aware personally that there was a preference for the 3,2,1 other than the fact that it was easier. Personally I've had more bungled starts due to leaving the shifter in 3d than all other reasons combined. :yuck:
 
GGGMotorsport
DW - I can understand why SNAIL Proper does not use the False Start check on Sunday nights. With such short races, it would be a death sentence for those impacted. Its not as big of an issue in RCS (or even TCS) as the races are longer and you can recover from the incident.
Click to expand...

I won a race in RCS for just that reason. If it weren't for Wiifreak jumping the start and a couple other folks running out of fuel, there was no way I would have won. Other than my lack of skill with launches, I didn't have an issue with the setting in RCS. I just have to remember it's set and get my butt out to practice the starts and figure out a way I can use the clutch. I found the false start check to be a little picky about when you applied your brakes prior to the start. If it wasn't pressed before the lights came up, you were doomed to a penalty.
 
Even with false start check or running practice as a free run, doesn't matter as long as the drivers drive recklessly. For example when i hosted the Red practice room last Thursday Night, at Tokyo track, right at the first turn it looked like someone just plowed into turn one collecting at least 4 drivers on track. So false start check wouldn't matter as long as people don't treat Practice night like they would the official Sunday night races. I was at the back of the pack at the Tokyo track, just didn't see who ended up into 4 or more other drivers.

Treat online driving/racing like you would in real life. Use your Brakes.
 
I like the practice room discussion. Starts, I'll follow whatever the rules are for the series I'm in, really doesn't matter to me it's such a small piece of the actual experience.
 
racingchamp30
Even with false start check or running practice as a free run, doesn't matter as long as the drivers drive recklessly. For example when i hosted the Red practice room last Thursday Night, at Tokyo track, right at the first turn it looked like someone just plowed into turn one collecting at least 4 drivers on track. So false start check wouldn't matter as long as people don't treat Practice night like they would the official Sunday night races. I was at the back of the pack at the Tokyo track, just didn't see who ended up into 4 or more other drivers.

Treat online driving/racing like you would in real life. Use your Brakes.
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Yeah much contact can be avoided with 1 simple trick. Lift your right foot (or right thumb or forefinger) from the accelerator. I was in the room and saved the replay. Although it looks like the driver may have dive bombed we don't know if that was their intent or they are just inexperienced and couldn't identify a breaking point going into T1 and grossly misjudged their speed collecting a few cars in the process. I've done that a couple time already but am getting better at avoiding contact. Those are the types of situations that can be played out if we have a higher divisional guy in the RED room on Thursdays, not "let me show you how much faster I am than you". (not all higher divisional guys have this attitude) It all comes down to responsibility. If you are following someone into T1 on Lap 1 and hit them from behind you are at fault. Additionally if they lose a position due to you hitting them from behind you should be conceding that position.

SNAIL ORL:
04: Rules Governing Car Contact:

A: Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.
B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.
C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.
D:
Some contact through a corner or through a pass may not be avoidable and may be deemed "incidental" should it not appear to affect the likely outcome of the section in question.


05: Running into the car ahead of you:

A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.
B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, you must do your best to avoid making the loss of control into a bigger incident. Some contact may be unavoidable in these situations, but you are expected to minimize the impact of it to the best of your ability. If this means turning your car into a wall or off the track to avoid contact, that is what you are expected to do.
C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later. The ahead driver should not make a drastic or sudden change to their line through a corner.

 
TomMang_68
Yeah much contact can be avoided with 1 simple trick. Lift your right foot (or right thumb or forefinger) from the accelerator. I was in the room and saved the replay. Although it looks like the driver may have dive bombed we don't know if that was their intent or they are just inexperienced and couldn't identify a breaking point going into T1 and grossly misjudged their speed collecting a few cars in the process. I've done that a couple time already but am getting better at avoiding contact. Those are the types of situations that can be played out if we have a higher divisional guy in the RED room on Thursdays, not "let me show you how much faster I am than you". (not all higher divisional guys have this attitude) It all comes down to responsibility. If you are following someone into T1 on Lap 1 and hit them from behind you are at fault. Additionally if they lose a position due to you hitting them from behind you should be conceding that position.

SNAIL ORL:
04: Rules Governing Car Contact:

A: Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.
B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.
C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.
D:
Some contact through a corner or through a pass may not be avoidable and may be deemed "incidental" should it not appear to affect the likely outcome of the section in question.


05: Running into the car ahead of you:

A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.
B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, you must do your best to avoid making the loss of control into a bigger incident. Some contact may be unavoidable in these situations, but you are expected to minimize the impact of it to the best of your ability. If this means turning your car into a wall or off the track to avoid contact, that is what you are expected to do.
C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later. The ahead driver should not make a drastic or sudden change to their line through a corner.
Click to expand...
Wait, let me see if I'm following you here Tom. Are you saying I can't brake check you anymore? I mean, that was one of my favorite things to do and now you're telling me it's wrong? Fun killer...
 
Question: are the onscreen (unseen) vehicle boundaries exactly the same from vehicle to vehicle? I'm thinking about making some sort if visual guide to place over my tv screen that will be more instinctively recognizable.
 
GGGMotorsport
DW - I can understand why SNAIL Proper does not use the False Start check on Sunday nights. With such short races, it would be a death sentence for those impacted. Its not as big of an issue in RCS (or even TCS) as the races are longer and you can recover from the incident.

Being a race organizer, I took issue with the below statement and implying that the 3,2,1 start is the only way races should be organized since the False Start Checks are so unrealistic.
Click to expand...

Way to take something completely out of context and take issue with it. I'll put the full quote here so you can get the proper context instead of quoting half a sentence and making a comment.

JLBowler
Taking Dragonwhisky's train of though and adding to it. Real racing has death, great bodily injury, thousands of dollars worth of car damage, and the possibility of your car ending up on a hook 10 seconds into the race. We have none of those to deter mayhem in turn one. Why in the world would we want to do anything that would artificially create more mayhem?

It is simply not real in any way. Has anyone here ever seen a car get power limited for jumping a start in real life? No, because even if the capability existed (it does by the way), no race organizer in their right mind would do it because of the effect it would have on the other drivers on the grid. I get it that cars stall on the grid and they have to be avoided but those situations are due to mechanical failure or driver error and are unavoidable. They are not created by the race organizer nor should they be.

Also, D1 should NOT be starting races with false start check turned on if they are in fact doing so.
Click to expand...

It's pretty clear that I'm talking about a real life event organizer.

I also never said that either way is more realistic than the other. I just said that one way has the potential to create more problems with it's enforcement than the other way.
 
I have a question...
Last night in the race of champions, someone that was ahead of me by about 200 feet went off track and managed to come back in promptly but obviously half the speeday I was coming and placed himself right in the middle of the track. When I got to his tail, I was still a nice 15/20 mph faster than him but since he placed himself in the very middle of the track I had no room to pass him.
Important note, he didn't wave or move to side to clearly block me.
Was his positioning in the very middle of the track legal or is also considered a blocking maneuver?
Thanks.
 
Uh... It would have been a minimum of a six point illegal reentry on a Sunday night, as described, just on velocity alone.

Position on the track... A whole lot of conditionals there. Maybe.
 
Sounds like something I'd want to see video of before even commenting. Something kinda similar happend to me at Suzuka a few weeks ago. Somebody had an off and a big spin heading toward spoon curve and by bad luck ended up right in front of me. With all the smoke I couldn't tell where he was until just before I clobbered him. I just chalked it up to racers' luck.
 

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