◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open

[Lessen]

I completely understand the argument here, but I think what it really comes down to here is...

What is clearly enforceable?

The center if the car is obviously not.
The inside edge of any tire is not due to reasonable visibility. Same goes for the white line/rumble edge when the car is over it.

The entire car being COMPLETELY out of bounds is the most unmistakeable guideline we can use to ensure the most effective means of consistent rules enforcement. That's just how I see it though.

 

[MSgtGunny]

I completely understand the argument here, but I think what it really comes down to here is...

What is clearly enforceable?

The center if the car is obviously not.
The inside edge of any tire is not due to reasonable visibility. Same goes for the white line/rumble edge when the car is over it.

The entire car being COMPLETELY out of bounds is the most unmistakeable guideline we can use to ensure the most effective means of consistent rules enforcement. That's just how I see it though.

I got called out in an IR on Monza (rightly so, though none of them involved other drivers so that's a plus). One of them, I had only 1 wheel on (rear right), but my front right was only off the rumble strip by a few inches, but its still 3 wheels off the track and I told the stewards I agree with that IR report. That's it, end of story. You can't do things by how you think the rules SHOULD be, only by how they currently are. If you have an issue with the current rules, that's a separate topic.

IMO if through the replay you can see any portion of the two tires on the track (which includes rumble) then that is defined in the rules as legal and so no IR. But you need to make sure that that is the case through the entirety of the corner and not just part of it.

 

[gotdirt410sp]

Top phote is fine by me, I see in the second one it happens but every single one of us are to good to do it. When I was running lobbys in gt5 that crap would get you kicked. And one more thing gt academy guys when you get there I don't think the guys there will tell you go in to that left hander and put the right side tires on the rumble strip. average age is 37 in this club race like we are suppose too.

 

[TomMang_68]

 

[Lessen]

I got called out in an IR on Monza (rightly so, though none of them involved other drivers so that's a plus). One of them, I had only 1 wheel on (rear right), but my front right was only off the rumble strip by a few inches, but its still 3 wheels off the track and I told the stewards I agree with that IR report. That's it, end of story. You can't do things by how you think the rules SHOULD be, only by how they currently are. If you have an issue with the current rules, that's a separate topic.

IMO if through the replay you can see any portion of the two tires on the track (which includes rumble) then that is defined in the rules as legal and so no IR. But you need to make sure that that is the case through the entirety of the corner and not just part of it.

Either A: you've misunderstood my point, or B: you've failed to read this conversation in its entirety and fail to understand my stance on it.

 

[MSgtGunny]

Either A: you've misunderstood my point, or B: you've failed to read this conversation in its entirety and fail to understand my stance on it.

I mixed responding to a few people in my post, so not all of it was directed at you. My reply to you was, as long as part of 2 wheels are on the track, even by just a little bit (and the curbing is part of the track) then under the current rules you are not OOB.

 

[Falango]

Top phote is fine by me, I see in the second one it happens but every single one of us are to good to do it. When I was running lobbys in gt5 that crap would get you kicked. And one more thing gt academy guys when you get there I don't think the guys there will tell you go in to that left hander and put the right side tires on the rumble strip. average age is 37 in this club race like we are suppose too.

Race the way you'd like, but you need to adapt to the rules if you want to be competitive. Rules are different from one series to another, same goes here.

The GTA rules are different even in the time trials, so we will adapt as we see fit. If you can't adapt to the rules, whether you like the rules or not, you won't succeed.

 

[BayouSimDrifter]

If any of you remember the episode of GT Academy when they were doing the qualify laps. I forget his name but he tried to push the limit of the boundaries and got penalized and rightfully so. The steward I believe told him that he needed to keep 2 in.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

 

[IceWarden]

This league clearly advertises itself as a GT Academy preparation league....

Prepare for GT Academy
If you'd like to compete in GT Academy, there's no better place than SNAIL to hone your skills to the elite levels necessary to make it to the finals. You need to be the best of the best to make it to Silverstone, and that's exactly what the drivers in our top division are. Half of last year's and half of this year's Silverstone Finalists have raced in SNAIL. And since our race format (which features multiple sprint races) is almost identical to the format used at the GT Academy national finals, they were able to use their SNAIL experience to help them advance to Silverstone. Click here if you want to advice from last year's eventual champion and click here if you want advice from last year's runner-up.

So why not use the track boundary rules that might apply in GT Academy? I honestly don't know how much cheesing they allow as far as corner cutting goes but I highly doubt they allow as much as SNAIL and the OLR allow.

Many racers aspire to place the majority of the car on the actual road surface at all times. While others try to eke out every little advantage possible by pushing the limits of the rules and realism. Both types of racers are on the track at the same time and placed in divisions by their lap times and performance. I do believe that, if the track boundary rules were to be realigned to keep people from driving off the road surface and sometimes beyond the curbing, then many drivers would need to be reassigned to a lower division.

 

[Wolfsatz]

 

[gotdirt410sp]

This league clearly advertises itself as a GT Academy preparation league....



So why not use the track boundary rules that might apply in GT Academy? I honestly don't know how much cheesing they allow as far as corner cutting goes but I highly doubt they allow as much as SNAIL and the OLR allow.

Many racers aspire to place the majority of the car on the actual road surface at all times. While others try to eke out every little advantage possible by pushing the limits of the rules and realism. Both types of racers are on the track at the same time and placed in divisions by their lap times and performance. I do believe that, if the track boundary rules were to be realigned to keep people from driving off the road surface and sometimes beyond the curbing, then many drivers would need to be reassigned to a lower division.

You know what man where beating a dead horse. For me half car off at all times since we don't care what a joke.

 

[gotdirt410sp]

Come on wolf all them are racing incidence and the top looks ok tires on the rumble stripe

 

[Wolfsatz]

Come on wolf all them are racing incidence and the top looks ok tires on the rumble stripe

 

[Dragonwhisky]

Hmm. I may be missing something here. For all intents and purposes the track boundary rules have been the same since Jul 2012. Here they are together for your own comparison.

15: Track Boundaries:

A:
Colliding with or using walls, fences or other obstacle is forbidden, whether time is gained or not.

B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.

C:
All green areas are not part of the track unless otherwise stated by the Stewards prior to the race.

D:
Curbs, sidewalks/pavements are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.

E:Tarmac/Asphalt or any other kind of surface mentioned above that are situated beyond the normal limits of the track, Run-off areas for example, are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.

F:
Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc are part of the track unless otherwise stated.

G:
Tarmac/Asphalt partially covered with dirt or sand are part of the track unless otherwise stated.

H:
You must not use any cheats or bugs in the game. The use of cheats or bugs affecting the cars performance is forbidden.

I:
The use of external cheats is forbidden.

J:
The use of shortcuts which are based on bugs in the game is prohibited. The fact that the game will allow you to take shortcuts does not account for a valid run.

K:
Any other way of cheating we haven't thought of is forbidden.

15: Track Boundaries:

A: Colliding with or using walls, fences, cones, brake markers or any other obstacle that is outside the track surface is forbidden, whether time is gained or not.

B: Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track surface which is defined in this section.

C: Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc. is part of the track unless otherwise stated herein or by the Stewards / Technical Director. These rumble strips are generally painted a striped pattern. When there is any potential for confusion, a clarification will be issued by the Stewards / Technical Director as to what is considered rumble strip and what is not.

D: All green painted areas are NOT part of the track unless otherwise stated by the Stewards / Technical Director prior to the race. If the painted area is a color other than green, it will be clarified by the Stewards / Technical Director prior to the track being used for an official SNAIL Sunday night event. A change in surface can also mark the edge of the track. If this is the case, it will be determined and announced by the Stewards / Technical Director prior to use for a Sunday night event.

E: Tarmac/Asphalt or any other kind of surface mentioned above that are situated beyond the normal limits of the track, Run-off areas for example, are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.

F: The use of shortcuts which are based on bugs in the game is prohibited. The fact that the game will allow you to take shortcuts does not make it legal according to SNAIL.

G: Any other way of cheating we haven't thought of is forbidden.

Note: The section on Track Boundaries is a work in progress. Specific boundaries by track can be found here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/◆-snail-spec-racing-is-presented-by-buttkicker-feel-what-youve-been-missing-spots-open.235094/page-2431 and these descriptions will have priority over anything that may be printed in this section.

The rules have been edited for clarity not intent. This section gets edited occasionally for another reason new drivers may or may not remember.

 

[Machinist]

Haha! I think I just found a new line thru the corkscrew!!

 

[GTP_Vertigo]

This league clearly advertises itself as a GT Academy preparation league....
So why not use the track boundary rules that might apply in GT Academy? I honestly don't know how much cheesing they allow as far as corner cutting goes but I highly doubt they allow as much as SNAIL and the OLR allow.

Many racers aspire to place the majority of the car on the actual road surface at all times. While others try to eke out every little advantage possible by pushing the limits of the rules and realism. Both types of racers are on the track at the same time and placed in divisions by their lap times and performance. I do believe that, if the track boundary rules were to be realigned to keep people from driving off the road surface and sometimes beyond the curbing, then many drivers would need to be reassigned to a lower division.

Exactly. GTA time trial are white line boundaries point blank. I remeber last year numerous times being on a fast lap and pushed to hard. With 4 over the white line but completely legal with Snail OLR the lap would be invalidated.

You know what man where beating a dead horse. For me half car off at all times since we don't care what a joke.

Its a shame isnt it.

 

[Machinist]

Is this car considered OOB, if not then thanks. I will be able to pick up substantial time at multiple tracks. View attachment 344997

I think I misunderstood the rules because I would have considered this OOB. I think in time trial mode this would have been an invalid lap and that is usually what I go by. Although sometimes in TT you can get away with murder.

That said, now that I am clearer on the rules, I will be looking at my racing lines a little differently. I want to be as fast as possible within the rules we have.

If we ever have a discussion on what the rules should be....well thats a different story.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

I look at it this way SNAIL wants 4 tires fine, 2 tires fine, or anything goes I'm golden just let me drive!

 

[tezgm99]

Haha! I think I just found a new line thru the corkscrew!!

Pretty sure that one is called the Zanardi line.

Here we go:

And there's even video for it too. I remember watching the race and just shaking my head

 

[JLBowler]

Exactly. GTA time trial are white line boundaries point blank. I remeber last year numerous times being on a fast lap and pushed to hard. With 4 over the white line but completely legal with Snail OLR the lap would be invalidated.



Its a shame isnt it.

Actually the boundaries for GTA time trials are some invisible line that is located wherever the programmer felt like putting it with little to no regard for actual track construction and it varies from corner to corner and track to track by quite a bit. It's just like the penalty system in game which has little to no consistency in where the boundaries are from corner to corner. There are corners in the game that the penalty system will give you a time penalty while you have two tires on the track side of the white line and there are corners that will let you run two car widths, or more, outside into a run off area to carry more speed.

For anyone who wants to tighten up the track boundaries, I ask that you go and look at the last time Ascari was used where the boundaries are tighter than usual and the number of penalties that were handed out there and the time that the stewards had to spend policing it because there were way too many drivers that were either incapable or unwilling to police themselves.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Come on wolf all them are racing incidence and the top looks ok tires on the rumble stripe

Actually 1 and 3 are legal I remember those races last season. and some F1 races go against SNAIL OLR like the exit of ascari. as for 2 and 4 I don't get speed anymore (no longer in Canada)

 

[Falango]

I remember last year the GTA time trials had cones on apexes to help police corner cutting as well. The invisible OOB line was incredibly frustrating.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

I remember last year the GTA time trials had cones on apexes to help police corner cutting as well. The invisible OOB line was incredibly frustrating.

lol so were the cones! Couldn't put to tires on the chicane on spa! But you could run the exit of orange.

 

[Dr_Strange]

Actually the boundaries for GTA time trials are some invisible line that is located wherever the programmer felt like putting it with little to no regard for actual track construction and it varies from corner to corner and track to track by quite a bit. It's just like the penalty system in game which has little to no consistency in where the boundaries are from corner to corner. There are corners in the game that the penalty system will give you a time penalty while you have two tires on the track side of the white line and there are corners that will let you run two car widths, or more, outside into a run off area to carry more speed.

For anyone who wants to tighten up the track boundaries, I ask that you go and look at the last time Ascari was used where the boundaries are tighter than usual and the number of penalties that were handed out there and the time that the stewards had to spend policing it because there were way too many drivers that were either incapable or unwilling to police themselves.

Oh good lord. No one is saying turn penalties on. Nor are they saying to mimic the online GTA trials (because these rules aren't really published). They are saying emulate what is allowable during GTA finals. I'm sure some of our resident finalists will tell you what the judges allow and disallow during finals.

Your whining about Ascari is pathetic. Basically what you are implying is that you'd rather there be no boundaries because tighter boundaries equal more penalties. Which is completely untrue.

Snail and olr boundary definitions couldn't be much more vague and hard to follow as a driver and police as a steward. So something more visible like 2 (or 3 or 4) wheels inside white lines would be easier to police by stewards and easier to see and drive around by drivers.

People who try to drive more like people REALLY drive their cars in real life always scratch their heads watching some of these guys going beyond curbs to gain time and yet are still technically not violating the letter of the olr because one of their tires appear to still touch the curbing.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Oh good lord. No one is saying turn penalties on. Nor are they saying to mimic the online GTA trials (because these rules aren't really published). They are saying emulate what is allowable during GTA finals. I'm sure some of our resident finalists will tell you what the judges allow and disallow during finals.

Your whining about Ascari is pathetic. Basically what you are implying is that you'd rather there be no boundaries because tighter boundaries equal more penalties. Which is completely untrue.

Snail and olr boundary definitions couldn't be much more vague and hard to follow as a driver and police as a steward. So something more visible like 2 (or 3 or 4) wheels inside white lines would be easier to police by stewards and easier to see and drive around by drivers.

People who try to drive more like people REALLY drive their cars in real life always scratch their heads watching some of these guys going beyond curbs to gain time and yet are still technically not violating the letter of the olr because one of their tires appear to still touch the curbing.

HAY HAY HAY We're having a fun little Tuesday, dead day conversation! lets not start attacking people! His point is valid They tightened up the boundaries on Ascari and the AMOUNT of penalties were outrageous! I got caught myself I knew not to do it and did it anyways!

 

[JLBowler]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people will come out of the woodwork to post here when they think there is something to complain about.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Oh good lord. No one is saying turn penalties on. Nor are they saying to mimic the online GTA trials (because these rules aren't really published). They are saying emulate what is allowable during GTA finals. I'm sure some of our resident finalists will tell you what the judges allow and disallow during finals.

Your whining about Ascari is pathetic. Basically what you are implying is that you'd rather there be no boundaries because tighter boundaries equal more penalties. Which is completely untrue.

Snail and olr boundary definitions couldn't be much more vague and hard to follow as a driver and police as a steward. So something more visible like 2 (or 3 or 4) wheels inside white lines would be easier to police by stewards and easier to see and drive around by drivers.

People who try to drive more like people REALLY drive their cars in real life always scratch their heads watching some of these guys going beyond curbs to gain time and yet are still technically not violating the letter of the olr because one of their tires appear to still touch the curbing.

Speaking of which Hay strange how you doin? You comin back anytime soon?

 

[Dragonwhisky]

HAY HAY HAY We're having a fun little Tuesday, dead day conversation! lets not start attacking people! His point is valid They tightened up the boundaries on Ascari and the AMOUNT of penalties were outrageous! I got caught myself I knew not to do it and did it anyways!

Ascari's boundaries weren't tightened, they were loosened.

 

[Die_Birdy_Die]

Ascari's boundaries weren't tightened, they were loosened.

REALLY those were loose I would have been screwed before!