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[zer05ive]

I want to throw out a shameless plug for a Tuesday night series that I'm racing in. It hasn't quite taken flight, but I think it'll be fun. Basically you build and tune a car to a certain pp (tonight's is 450pp with Sports Medium tires). After each race, the fastest drivers drop down 4pp. The middle drivers stay the same. And the slower drivers gain 4pp. Everyone tweaks their parts to meet their new pp level and then the next race happens. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

The goal is tight racing regardless of how much of a robot you are.

Take a look:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=235535

Okay cool, but does that mean you're going to reciprocate the shameless plug by mentioning S.N.A.I.L. on the other thread? Our Division2 numbers were down last week so we could use some new drivers in S.N.A.I.L. to keep both grids full.

 

[spooble]

Well of course! I already invited garris, and will throw out a plug once we get a little more participation going over there.

 

[JLBowler]

I watched the replay, so here's my take on the 'situation', it's just a statement of fact nothing, more nothing less.

I was having issues with my accelerator, but my ego wouldn't let me back off, even when I should have. Bowler had position into the gentle left hander and I should have let him past but I didn't, see previous sentence. Had I, the whole thing would likely have not transpired. I didn't have a hope to keep up with him, given the accelerator issue, even without, my hands would have been full.

Sorry Bowler, lesson learned.

Cheeb, you gave me enough room on the left hander and I expected you to race me to the next turn. I would have had the inside and been fine. The problem for me occured when I ended up in the grass when Rally tried to go three wide and as we know, grass on the tires and the wrong entry point don't mix. Once I got put in the grass, I should have backed off and not tried to make the turn.

 

[Rallywagon]

ok, I was just going to let it go, but so everyone can make the opinion of who did what, heres the video of that incident.
Video.
Im the blue car, Bowler is Red and Cheeb is purple. Starts at 24 seconds.

 

[ckoerner210]

Almost forgot! CK, spooble passed Prize C to you so let me know what car you want! I can add any upgrades and paint you want as well. Just let me know exactly what you want.

Could I get the Mine's BNR34 Skyline GT-R N1 Base '06 in bay side blue wit no upgrades please?

 

[JLBowler]

ok, I was just going to let it go, but so everyone can make the opinion of who did what, heres the video of that incident.
Video.
Im the blue car, Bowler is Red and Cheeb is purple. Starts at 24 seconds.

That is exactly what I see in my replay. When Cheeb and I made the contact to slow us down, you should have backed out of the gas and not tried to go three wide where there isn't room. Your dart right was enough to push me into the grass and screw up my entry into the next corner. It's you own video and you changed direction into another car in the middle of a straight. You need to learn some patience and back off in that situation. There was no room for you to try and go three wide cleanly so you made the decision to try and push me out of the way.

 

[zer05ive]

Well of course! I already invited garris, and will throw out a plug once we get a little more participation going over there.

Okay thanks. That'd definitely be appreciated. In fact, if any of you snails knows someone that you think would be a good fit for our league, please let them know about the good time and good racing to be had in our league. 👍

 

[kcheeb]

ok, I was just going to let it go, but so everyone can make the opinion of who did what, heres the video of that incident.
Video.
Im the blue car, Bowler is Red and Cheeb is purple. Starts at 24 seconds.

Cheeb, you gave me enough room on the left hander and I expected you to race me to the next turn. I would have had the inside and been fine. The problem for me occured when I ended up in the grass when Rally tried to go three wide and as we know, grass on the tires and the wrong entry point don't mix. Once I got put in the grass, I should have backed off and not tried to make the turn.

I was afraid by posting my take, I was going to stir it up again. Should have left it alone. Guess it's good to talk it out though.

 

[ckoerner210]

ok, I was just going to let it go, but so everyone can make the opinion of who did what, heres the video of that incident.
Video.
Im the blue car, Bowler is Red and Cheeb is purple. Starts at 24 seconds.

Now that I watched the video, I see I was already past diabolic before the entrance, making the corner-cut even less excusable. I guess I was just caught up in the moment. My apologies again.

 

[zer05ive]

That is exactly what I see in my replay. When Cheeb and I made the contact to slow us down, you should have backed out of the gas and not tried to go three wide where there isn't room. Your dart right was enough to push me into the grass and screw up my entry into the next corner. It's you own video and you changed direction into another car in the middle of a straight. You need to learn some patience and back off in that situation. There was no room for you to try and go three wide cleanly so you made the decision to try and push me out of the way.

I agree that patience is an important part of good racecraft, but all this talk about these incidents is starting to make me wonder if our format creates an environment that is not conducive to patience. In order to fit all nine races and three qualifying sessions into our two hour limit, each of our races can only be 5-7 minutes long. However, is it possible that these short races make everyone feel as if there's no time to wait for a better passing opportunity and that they just need to push, push, push at all costs?

With that in mind, what if we lengthened the races to 10 minutes each? So instead of each round consisting of one "Fastest First" race and two "Reverse Grid" races that are 5-7 minutes long each, would could have each round consist of one "Fastest First" race and just one "Reverse Grid" race each at 9-10 minutes long. Therefore, instead of 9 short races per night, we'd have six medium races. Do you guys think that would promote better racecraft and better battles for position? Or do you guys like the "quick and dirty" adrenaline rushes that nine short races provide? Please share your thoughts on this. I want everyone's opinion as this would be a significant shift in our format.

 

[JLBowler]

I would prefer a longer race. In a three lap race to come from the back and win you have to try and pass 3 or 4 drivers a lap. Some tracks just don't have 3 places to work a clean pass so drivers have to try and jump on every opportunity to gain positions.

When GT5 first came out, I put together a series that ran races that were 45 minutes in duration. We could follow a car for two or three laps to work a pass and it didn't hurt our progress to the front. I'm not saying that S.N.A.I.L. should go that long but I'm just using it as an example. I think 10 minutes with two at each track could work. I wouldn't even mind seeing a 10 minute qualifying with two 12 minute races at each track to allow for more head to head competition.

 

[spooble]

There have definitely been times as I'm crossing the finish line that I think, "Man... if I just had 1 more lap!" On the other hand, the longer the races go, the more spread out the field becomes. And nobody likes racing by themselves. I say it's worth a try. Maybe even mix it up a bit? Round 1 will be 3 short races. Round 2 will be 2 medium races. Whatever.

 

[kcheeb]

but all this talk about these incidents is starting to make me wonder if our format creates an environment that is not conducive to patience. However, is it possible that these short races make everyone feel as if there's no time to wait for a better passing opportunity and that they just need to push, push, push at all costs?

I have felt that way and made some marginal passes because time is short for each race. Especially on the reverse grid races, although lately I'm mid pack either way

With that in mind, what if we lengthened the races to 10 minutes each? So instead of each round consisting of one "Fastest First" race and two "Reverse Grid" races that are 5-7 minutes long each, would could have each round consist of one "Fastest First" race and just one "Reverse Grid" race each at 9-10 minutes long. Therefore, instead of 9 short races per night, we'd have six medium races. Do you guys think that would promote better racecraft and better battles for position? Or do you guys like the "quick and dirty" adrenaline rushes that nine short races provide? Please share your thoughts on this. I want everyone's opinion as this would be a significant shift in our format.

This could work, I prefer slightly longer races anyway. But, you could end up making a larger gap between the front runners and everyone else, especially on the fastest first races.

I think it would be worth an experiment, say on Wednesday night???

 

[ckoerner210]

I like spooble's idea. Some tracks call for longer race time, but I thoroughly enjoy the setup we run right now. Maybe mixing two short series with a long one or vice versa could work.

 

[jag302ci]

I'm OK with the way we do it now, but if we do change the number of laps of races, I suggest we do longest race first, and then by the time we do 3 short sprints at the end of the night, everyone is settled in and calmed down.

 

[screaming chief]

I think more laps would hopefully promote more patience also driving line might not hurt either,i know even with practice sometimes during the heat of the battle i get lost on the track.As for track contact i am guilty of early braking which usually results in me being punted through the turn and if i late brake and end off track i wait until it is clear to renter.I know when i am following someone i stay off their bumper incase they early brake and if contact is made no overtaking.I missed the first race last weak but it was the bumping along with my poor driving that got me in div. 2.

 

[basicchannel]

I've found that you don't need the driving line if you follow the black streaks of tire that establish the correct line. The driving line's "brake here/gas here" is often not correct and it feels less distracting to use the cues from the rubber on the asphalt.

Does that make sense?

 

[diabolicwyvern]

I prefer longer races but not too the point off losing a race. I'm willing to add a lap or two if we cut the qualifying session to ten minutes. by tuesday we know the combinations so folks can practice if need be.

 

[dvdoughboy]

I think longer races might be beneficial in division 1. I am against it for division 2 since skill level varies more there. When someone is so far back in the race, it may be discouraging and they may not want to finish.
In any case, I'll try it out on Wednesday's practice

 

[Rallywagon]

Im kinda on with spoobles idea, except have the middle round be the shorter race. I also agree that a longer race will be better for patience. But I also enjoy those shorter, sprint to the finishes too.
Bowler, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Lets let it be now and get back to the important stuff.

 

[SaGaSpeedLab]

I like the idea of lengthening the races just a bit though because I agree with no one likes to race alone.

 

[JLBowler]

Rally, at :43 seconds into the video you swerve into me on a straight and you are not onthe brakes at that time. If you can't see this, you are either in serious denial, are blind, or need your head examined. Don't try and make excuses about having braking problems when I can see your brake lights in the video. You made a bonehead move and are trying to cover it up with whatever you can think of. I will not lay down and pretend it didn't happen. I will not "agree to diasgree" and let it go. I will however remember how you race me and take the necessary precautions to protect my interests.

 

[Rallywagon]

Dude, boneheaded move? Ok fine, i nudge you after you left my screen, after I passed you cause you couldnt stay off cheeb, you hardly touch the grass, after which point YOU took out cheeb! you! not me, I had braked and let you go, you had already, got that one tire that clipped a weed back on track, regained control, started the turn, then ran into cheeb. Who's race did I wreck?

 

[Rallywagon]

and, agian, I wish audio was saved to, you were pissed, in the video, it looks like you swerve up into cheeb.

 

[JLBowler]

yeah I was pissed, I had just been sideswiped on a straight. I don't deny that I took out Cheeb. I took out Cheeb for a couple of reasons, grassy tires and the fact that my entry to the turn was way off what it should have been. I hit Cheeb on exit becasue my car pushed out and I didn't react quick enough to avoid contact. You were traveling in a straight line and changed your path in order to make contact. You were not clear of me by any means. If you don't have that much vision while driving then I suggest you use a different view or use a button to look to the left or right before assuming there's noone there.

 

[basicchannel]

I think both of you would agree to be vigilant and be gentlemen in racing. What's to continue arguing about?

 

[tezgm99]

So what have we got for tomorrow night in practice....from reading through, it appears to be NSX/Tokyo, RX7/High Speed and Amuse/Daytona RC, that sound right?

 

[Rallywagon]

I think both of you would agree to be vigilant and be gentlemen in racing. What's to continue arguing about?

That attempt was made. Hes the one that keeps it up. I was talking about the whole situation, which if you read, I did take responsibility for my original contact and in race, said as much, obviously I knew what I did because I slowed up and gave you back position. I was point out I wasnt the reason for you taking out cheeb. I was done with it until Bowler wanted to try and put me on blast again.

 

[basicchannel]

Rally, at :43 seconds into the video you swerve into me on a straight and you are not onthe brakes at that time. If you can't see this, you are either in serious denial, are blind, or need your head examined. Don't try and make excuses about having braking problems when I can see your brake lights in the video. You made a bonehead move and are trying to cover it up with whatever you can think of. I will not lay down and pretend it didn't happen. I will not "agree to diasgree" and let it go. I will however remember how you race me and take the necessary precautions to protect my interests.

Protect your interests? Calm down. Calling someone out like this just increases anger and doesn't work towards harmony. If you can't agree with him then, yeah, you'll have to agree to disagree because you aren't going to do anything else about it. We love you both, and don't think it helps anyone to harbor ill-will going into each race.

Harmony, you guys!!

 

[Rallywagon]

Im done with this matter now. If you got something to say to me Bowler, pm me, I'll be sure to entertain you. But lets not taint up this thread anymore. Ish happens, let it go fella.