◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open 

  • Thread starter zer05ive
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zer05ive
That reminds me.. Oshawa-Joe suggested that I put a link in the original post that explains how to break-in cars. I tried looking for a thread that I could like to, but I couldn't find one that was up to par. Does anyone know of a thread that does a good job of providing all of the detailed instructions and little nuances of breaking in a car? If not, is anyone willing to make a post that does this?
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I can give this a go zer0.
 
zer05ive
So if someone sandbags their time trial and starts cleaning house in D5, he should get Prize A for four weeks and get to select every single car and track combo for a month?
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There are already policies in place to prevent this. Namely, mid-season promotions for new drivers and an aforementioned withholding of new members from the prize selection process

zer05ive
I thought you enjoyed prodding that along.. :rolleyes:
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I did; because it was exactly what I expected might happen.

Nicktune
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4868548#post4868548

Why aren't we choking the cars to the pp after oil change (a car has 475pp after oil change...everyone use the power limiter to get to 475)?It would make the difference between the cars closer on the track and it would be less work for everybody.
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Because than the guy who broke his car in would still be at an advantage, having peak horsepower at a bigger range due to the limiting.

Maybe less of an advantage, but an advantage.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, necessarily, but I don't think it beneficial enough to make happen.
 
Nicktune
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4868548#post4868548 another Zero written it.

Why aren't we choking the cars to the pp after oil change (a car has 475pp after oil change...everyone use the power limiter to get to 475)?It would make the difference between the cars closer on the track and it would be less work for everybody.
Click to expand...

We tried doing that when the league first started, but the problem was that the cars would gradually get broken-in as we raced them. This would cause everyone to repeatedly get blocked from entering the track because their PP rose over the limit. Therefore, everyone was constantly having to go adjust the power limiter. I think the general feeling was that having to do that was more of a headache then just breaking-in the car. Thoughts?

Oshawa-Joe
I can give this a go zer0.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe! 👍
 
It is expected that you race with a fully broken in, maximum SPEC power car. Below are the steps required and the suggested break in methods. Both suggested methods require you to have B-Spec at level 27/28 in order to enter Endurance Series B-Spec races.

Cars purchased from the Online Car Dealership are fully broken in, regardless of the zero mileage reading.

Steps required:
1) Buy Car

2) Change oil

1) That is is! Your car is now at maximum SPEC power for racing in SNAILS Spec Racing.


Cars purchased from the New Car Dealership will need to be broken in. I’ve read that 186 miles is all that is required. I always break in cars by running them for 200 miles to be sure.

Steps required:
2) Buy car

3) Change oil

4) Use Bob, your B-Spec driver to break in the car at one of the following events.

Option A. With B-Spec level 27 you can enter the car in the Leguna Seca 200 mile race. Start up the race and check back in a couple of hours. Due to all the corners and breaking points, this race takes a few hours to complete. Multiply estimated lap time by 90 laps to find out how long the race will be. Go to step 5 when race is finished.

Option B. With B- Spec level 28 you can enter that car in the Indy 500 mile race (200 laps). Each lap is 2.5 miles, therefore you will only need to compete 80 laps to achieve 200 miles. The average racing speed on this track is very high, thus requiring much less time to complete the 200 mile break in period compared to racing Leguna Seca. Simply multiply the average estimated lap time by 80 laps and you will know approximately how long it will take Bob to complete 200 miles. After 80 laps you can exit the race, but only do so while the car is racing around the track . I’ve heard there are issues if you quit from the pit. Go to Step 5.

5) Go to garage and check the mileage of the car. It should be 200 miles or more.

6) Go change the oil in the car and it will now be at maximum SPEC power for racing in SNAILS Spec Racing.
 
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zer05ive
So if someone sandbags their time trial and starts cleaning house in D5, he should get Prize A for four weeks and get to select every single car and track combo for a month? That might be really fun for that driver, but it wouldn't be good for the overall league's health.

Sometimes it's important know what aspects of real life racing we want to emulate and what aspects we don't. This is after all an online sim racing league, not real life professional racing series. There are may aspects of real life racing that we don't encourage because drivers will simply leave the league.

Since you mentioned Vettel, I'll use him as an example. He would cut of his own teammates head if it meant winning a race. Mark Webber would do the same to him. The are super competitive guys who are racing with a lifetime of racing ego built-up in their heads and millions of dollars on the line.

However, when drivers in this league race with the same mindset, other drivers simply quit. And again, that's not good for the overall league's health. That's why I'm trying so hard to encourage (and even incentivise) drivers to value racecraft over winning.

Drivers who value racecraft over winning attract other drivers to this league. Drivers who value winning over racecraft cause other drivers to quit. It's simple formulas like this that are the basis for a lot of the policies of this league. So if you ever want to question why any of the policies of this league aren't more like real life, first ask yourself this question: Is it better to simulate real life racing as much as possible and have drivers leave or it is better to have policies that improve the overall health of the league?

I thought you enjoyed prodding that along.. :rolleyes:
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I think this post shows that you don't know real racers and how they think. I guarantee you Vettel would not cut off Mark's head to win a race. He would fight tooth and nail for the win just as any racer would.

The thing we need to avoid in this league is not the desire to win but the view that comes from online racing that who cares who I hit or drive over to win because it's not real. If our peers file protests as they should the winner could be considered to have the best racecraft as they must have figured out the best way to get to the front without running others off the road.

As far as someone sandbagging their time trial you can just bump them up a division like you did with me after the first race if it's obvious they belong in a faster division. If someone didn't sandbag and just improved or figured out how to beat the competition like goat did in d4 a month or two ago I'd say he deserves to win the prizes he won.
 
I call for a referendum (vote by members) on the question: Should drivers on probation through the Racing Complaint System be disallowed from winning prizes? Yes or No?
 
hillracing
I think this post shows that you don't know real racers and how they think. I guarantee you Vettel would not cut off Mark's head to win a race. He would fight tooth and nail for the win just as any racer would.
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And I guarantee that Vettel would not fight tooth and nail for the win. Dental work is expensive and nails aren't always readily available. Oh wait, were you just using that as an expression? Hmm..

hillracing
The thing we need to avoid in this league is not the desire to win but the view that comes from online racing that who cares who I hit or drive over to win because it's not real. If our peers file protests as they should the winner could be considered to have the best racecraft as they must have figured out the best way to get to the front without running others off the road.
Click to expand...

Just because someone doesn't have a complaint filed against him, doesn't mean he had good racecraft. As I explained here, we've always struggled to get everyone to file complaints when they are warranted. Many drivers simply quit the league rather than file a complaint.

hillracing
As far as someone sandbagging their time trial you can just bump them up a division like you did with me after the first race if it's obvious they belong in a faster division. If someone didn't sandbag and just improved or figured out how to beat the competition like goat did in d4 a month or two ago I'd say he deserves to win the prizes he won.
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Someone winning multiple prizes in a month is also an indication that they belong in a higher division. I'd rather use those instances as an opportunity to get more drivers involved in the car and track selection process. I think that getting more people involved is more important than any perceived unfairness of taking a prize from someone who "deserves" it when he just won the same exact prize the week before.
 
zer05ive
And I guarantee that Vettel would not fight tooth and nail for the win. Dental work is expensive and nails aren't always readily available. Oh wait, were you just using that as an expression? Hmm..



Just because someone doesn't have a complaint filed against him, doesn't mean he had good racecraft. As I explained here, we've always struggled to get everyone to file complaints when they are warranted. Many drivers simply quit the league rather than file a complaint.


Someone winning multiple prizes in a month is also an indication that they belong in a higher division. I'd rather use those instances as an opportunity to get more drivers involved in the car and track selection process. I think that getting more people involved is more important than any perceived unfairness of taking a prize from someone who "deserves" it when he just won the same exact prize the week before.
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You may have been using an expression but your intent seems to be that Pro drivers would kill their mother to win. In other words win at all costs. Sure there have been drivers that have had that attitude but they are in the minority not the majority.

Sure people don't file complaints as much as you think they should but they only have themselves to blame if they don't and decide to leave. I'm not saying the offending driver isn't to blame also but the ultimate responsibility on keeping this league fun and clean lies on the drivers reporting what happens. Also there are always 2 sides to every story and sometimes people look always look at the other person as responsible when they should look at themselves as I explained here
 (I can quote things I said too :P). Who's to say they didn't leave because of their own wrongdoing if they never protest to have objective eyes look at the incident and see what happened. I know I'm not the only one who's looked at an incident when it happened different then when I watched the replay only to see I was at fault.

Sure if the person won a bunch of times in a row they should be promoted at the end of the month. Doesn't mean they don't deserve a prize for winning that many times in a row. I think they actually deserve more of a prize not less if they can win multiple times in a row.

To me if you watch people who are at the front of any racing series on a consistent basis you will find those who have the best racecraft. There are exceptions to this such as most nascar drivers (otherwise known as the WWF of racing).
 
Oshawa-Joe
I vote Yes they should be allowed.
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Is that like a double NO makes a Yes?

Count 210
I call for a referendum (vote by members) on the question: Should drivers on probation through the Racing Complaint System be disallowed from winning prizes? Yes or No?
Click to expand...

No. They are already penalized via points. This would be like double punishment.

Isn't there a voting tool (poll) in :gtplanet: ?

diabolicwyvern
How many posts would this thread have if everything destructive were removed and everything constructive kept?
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following the wisdom of the Ying Yang.. about 50%
ying-yang.jpg
 
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I agree, winning multiple times should be rewarded not penalized. For every person that leaves because they are losing and one or two guys are winning all the time, another 2 people join. There's always going to be a revolving door for those types of things. It's just life.

IMO if a person wins more than once and is in the correct division, why give their prize to the next in line? What incentive are you giving to the winner to keep racing hard and clean?
 
Count 210
I call for a referendum (vote by members) on the question: Should drivers on probation through the Racing Complaint System be disallowed from winning prizes? Yes or No?
Click to expand...

Things like this and picking combos is why the Saturday night racing is the best....:dopey:
 
I think anyone who wins ANY night with more than 90 points should be promoted if there are more than 8-10 people competing that night. That's finishing at least second every race (not including any pole bonuses). And finishing the second race in the top 2 is alot harder if you finished the first race in the top 2.

90+ points is pretty much carving through the pack every race and finishing top two every time. And no offs.
 
But then you have the issue of drivers who don't want to be promoted because they want to win the championship for their current division (and any prize that comes with that). For obvious reasons, we don't let points earned in a lower division carry over to a higher division. When I do ask driver to move up a division mid-month, I always make sure they're okay with giving up all the points they've already earned. Sometimes they're okay with it, but sometimes they're not.

That's why we put so much effort into trying to get the divisions right before each season begins. We don't like to do mid-month promotion/relegation unless it's absolutely necessary to promote close, competitive racing. Sometimes division leveling is a factor too. In a perfect world, we'd always get it right and this would never be an issue. In a perfect world..
 
JoeW
I think anyone who wins ANY night with more than 90 points should be promoted if there are more than 8-10 people competing that night. That's finishing at least second every race (not including any pole bonuses). And finishing the second race in the top 2 is alot harder if you finished the first race in the top 2.

90+ points is pretty much carving through the pack every race and finishing top two every time. And no offs.
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I kind of agree with this but I would say give the driver the option. I think most would choose to be promoted mid month.

Having said that we do have times where someone spikes one night and manages to score 90+ points. This can sometimes happen when a few fast key racers in the division are not there or someone is suffering discos. So maybe it would need to happen twice before the option happened.

But I also believe good race craft (ie not being on probation) should play a part also.
 
zer05ive
I think the general feeling was that having to do that was more of a headache then just breaking-in the car. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I'd rather take 30 seconds to adjust the pp than 2 hours per week to break-in the cars (maybe it's just me?). Worked well in other series.We'll see what the majority thinks...
 
If we are talking about drivers on probation not being able to receive prizes I think we need to look at 2 things.

1. The probation system is set up in a way that deters people from racing "dirty" by doubling fines received once on probation. If we were to say, if you are on probation you are not able to receive prizes, I feel it would more strongly motivate drivers to show good racecraft.

2. I think if we go with this idea the point doubling should be done away with. Instead why not have drivers on probation banned from prizes and voting until the probation is lifted.
 
Nicktune
I'd rather take 30 seconds to adjust the pp than 2 hours per week to break-in the cars (maybe it's just me?). Worked well in other series.We'll see what the majority thinks...
Click to expand...
If people would choose more OCD cars we would not need to break in as many cars. Of course if I was as fast as you I might not bother breaking them in;) I actually think Kuul was racing in D5 with cars that were not broken in:crazy:
 
Some thoughts. First of all, it's not that hard to start a bspec race and walk away and have your car broken in. You don't even have to monopolize your TV to do it. Just suck it up and break in your cars.

Second. If it were left up to me, and it's not (most likely a good thing), if a driver was on probation for contact, I wouldn't mess with doubling penalties for incidents while on probation. I would suspend the driver for a week or two. I don't care if they win prizes becasue if they win a prize, it most likely means they ran clean and would be showing improvement. Before anyone jumps to anything, I know it would discourage participation and would result in most suspended drivers just leaving the league instead of learning from it. This is not a suggestion for any change, it's just an opinion.

Third, yes, the yellow is OK at Trial Mtn. At least it has been in the past.
 
If the cars are break can we just change oil or the engine to resolve this problem? I dont have thinking about ask myself what details are in this broken cars. Its so much to care lolll.
 
Oshawa-Joe
It is expected that you race with a fully broken in, maximum SPEC power car. Below are the steps required and the suggested break in methods. Both suggested methods require you to have B-Spec at level 27/28 in order to enter Endurance Series B-Spec races.

Cars purchased from the Online Car Dealership are fully broken in, regardless of the zero mileage reading.

Steps required:
1) Buy Car

2) Change oil

1) That is is! Your car is now at maximum SPEC power for racing in SNAILS Spec Racing.


Cars purchased from the New Car Dealership will need to be broken in. I’ve read that 186 miles is all that is required. I always break in cars by running them for 200 miles to be sure.

Steps required:
2) Buy car

3) Change oil

4) Use Bob, your B-Spec driver to break in the car at one of the following events.

Option A. With B-Spec level 27 you can enter the car in the Leguna Seca 200 mile race. Start up the race and check back in a couple of hours. Due to all the corners and breaking points, this race takes a few hours to complete. Multiply estimated lap time by 90 laps to find out how long the race will be. Go to step 5 when race is finished.

Option B. With B- Spec level 28 you can enter that car in the Indy 500 mile race (200 laps). Each lap is 2.5 miles, therefore you will only need to compete 80 laps to achieve 200 miles. The average racing speed on this track is very high, thus requiring much less time to complete the 200 mile break in period compared to racing Leguna Seca. Simply multiply the average estimated lap time by 80 laps and you will know approximately how long it will take Bob to complete 200 miles. After 80 laps you can exit the race, but only do so while the car is racing around the track . I’ve heard there are issues if you quit from the pit. Go to Step 5.

5) Go to garage and check the mileage of the car. It should be 200 miles or more.

6) Go change the oil in the car and it will now be at maximum SPEC power for racing in SNAILS Spec Racing.
Click to expand...

Do this.
 

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