- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open
- Thread starter zer05ive
- 150,399 comments
- 8,867,301 views
- 738
- Maryland
- QwietStorm03
Rallywagon
I think coach was being OVERaggressive. If racing hard got him dropped then the majority of D1 wouldn't exist.
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
I wasn't including d1 in that post, but just because someone races in d1 does not mean they dont race like an ass. There is a fine line between racing hard and racing like an ass, its very easy to cross that line. The singular, sole, only person I was refering to obviously crossed that line, a lot. Enough to get kick out of the league. That was mostly due to the fact that they didmt know the difference between the two, which had a lot to do with that persons mind set on their racing. The phrase I quoted in the post you quoted from me, is that same exact mentality. He is getting a rare chance to come back to this league, Id like to see him make the best of it and not fall back into that old mentality.
- 7,711
- Indiana-USA
- OwensRacing
D1 drivers speed has cars at their limit. This lack of buffer gives very little room to be all fluffy with cars around you.
It's part of running a car to it limits.
However that doesn't mean it is ok to push people out of the way. Dive under to force passes. Etc etc. honestly all in all. I'm impressed with the speed and close racing we get.
I've bumped the rear of a guy here and there. Trying to stay off him but not get ran over from behind. Bump is one thing. A push full slam push into a corner is another. i will shove a guy down straights and out exits. We both benefit from it. In one race my overly nice guy driving landed squarely in last place. I was like well poop. Time to make some moves and try my best to be clean. Which I do think my charge back up through the field was clean. Dicey, but clean.
I have no complaints. Granted times get heated in a race and I may curse with mic off. I sure hope its off. I actually check it a few times cause i dont wanna be burning the mic up while others are trying to race. However most cursing is usually at myself lol.
I truly wish D1 dropped the penalty system. Bring the SIM reality back into real world.
nobody I mean nobody over runs the track in D1 for time gains. Their either pushed out or giving space or victim of crappy boundaries. Being with in OLR and getting a penalty is complete nonsense.
Deep Forrest got Hill last night in front of me. I'm convinces he was clean and with in OLR.
It's part of running a car to it limits.
However that doesn't mean it is ok to push people out of the way. Dive under to force passes. Etc etc. honestly all in all. I'm impressed with the speed and close racing we get.
I've bumped the rear of a guy here and there. Trying to stay off him but not get ran over from behind. Bump is one thing. A push full slam push into a corner is another. i will shove a guy down straights and out exits. We both benefit from it. In one race my overly nice guy driving landed squarely in last place. I was like well poop. Time to make some moves and try my best to be clean. Which I do think my charge back up through the field was clean. Dicey, but clean.
I have no complaints. Granted times get heated in a race and I may curse with mic off. I sure hope its off. I actually check it a few times cause i dont wanna be burning the mic up while others are trying to race. However most cursing is usually at myself lol.
I truly wish D1 dropped the penalty system. Bring the SIM reality back into real world.
nobody I mean nobody over runs the track in D1 for time gains. Their either pushed out or giving space or victim of crappy boundaries. Being with in OLR and getting a penalty is complete nonsense.Deep Forrest got Hill last night in front of me. I'm convinces he was clean and with in OLR.
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- 1,573
- Rural Nebraska
- Apmaddock
That spot with the asphalt at Deep Forest that used to let you run way off is now really strict. You've just got to know your boundaries.
Similarly speaking you have to know your boundaries in your car, too. Push as hard as you want but if you're pushing so hard that you're creating a lot of contact you're pushing too hard. It's possible to drive fast in a pack without contact.
Similarly speaking you have to know your boundaries in your car, too. Push as hard as you want but if you're pushing so hard that you're creating a lot of contact you're pushing too hard. It's possible to drive fast in a pack without contact.
- 738
- Maryland
- QwietStorm03
Definitely good times last night. And Owens, that's exactly what I mean. In D1 if you're cautious or timid, you WILL get run over. You have to be somewhat aggressive. I was cautious when I first joined D1 and finished almost last every race.
Even though it's been a while since I've gotten a penalty, I would like to see D1 get rid of the penalty system. No one corner cuts to gain time and it would also remove the ghosting. D1 is supposed to be the pinnacle and the use of aids is gradually reduced as you climb the ladder so why not make D1 full sim?
Even though it's been a while since I've gotten a penalty, I would like to see D1 get rid of the penalty system. No one corner cuts to gain time and it would also remove the ghosting. D1 is supposed to be the pinnacle and the use of aids is gradually reduced as you climb the ladder so why not make D1 full sim?
- 1,573
- Rural Nebraska
- Apmaddock
Two things from my perspective:
First, for the most part I agree with you. This question has been brought up before and I don't remember the reasons why, but it's not changed. I don't mind the penalty system as I feel that it keeps people honest, but I also realize how flawed it is in GT5. At its best it works kind of like an on-track steward system, but at its worst it's a draconian dictator that jumps in to ruin people's races.
Second, if you remove penalties for one division I would recommend removing them for all of them, with the possible exception being D5. I'd rather see everyone on more or less the same level, but I think some in D5, particularly the new guys, would benefit from some of that guidance.
First, for the most part I agree with you. This question has been brought up before and I don't remember the reasons why, but it's not changed. I don't mind the penalty system as I feel that it keeps people honest, but I also realize how flawed it is in GT5. At its best it works kind of like an on-track steward system, but at its worst it's a draconian dictator that jumps in to ruin people's races.
Second, if you remove penalties for one division I would recommend removing them for all of them, with the possible exception being D5. I'd rather see everyone on more or less the same level, but I think some in D5, particularly the new guys, would benefit from some of that guidance.
- 738
- Maryland
- QwietStorm03
- 1,573
- Rural Nebraska
- Apmaddock
Read the OLR. Much of it will be obvious and tedious, but it is full of things that every driver should know. As has been evidenced by the last several weeks of racing, fast drivers are clean drivers. Knowing the rules doesn't just keep you from getting penalized, it will keep you from getting into potential incidents in the first place, and that will only help your final score.
Thank you.
This is, in many respects, identical to the GTP OLR, with the new parts highlighted in green. Some parts have changed, but the general tenets of racecraft have not.
Read it. Learn it. Live it.
Green text highlights the differences between this and the GTP OLR.
01: S.N.A.I.L. OLR General Rules:
A:
These rules are subject to change as there are constant updates/changes coming out for GT5, it is your responsibility to update yourself on the changes. The Stewards will post in the thread when a change has been made and what the change entails.
B:
All drivers are expected to make themselves familiar with the racing rules before entering any race or competition. If you stumble across a rule that is unclear to you, make sure you fully understand that rule before you enter the race or competition. You can post your questions in the S.N.A.I.L. thread.
C:
You are expected to compete in a fair and honest manner. Fair and honest means according to the S.N.A.I.L. online racing rules, not according to your own interpretation of fair and honest.
D:
You are expected to drive responsibly in a way that’s not likely to ruin the racing enjoyment of your fellow drivers.
E:
You are expected not to submit to bad general behaviour under all circumstances.
F:
Try to maintain a generally affable nature with the rest of the group; both in the thread and on the game. Some friendly rib-jabbing is expected. This isn't church.
G:
You are expected to behave like sporting gentlemen and women at all times.
H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.
I:
Aggressive driving is strictly prohibited.
J:
Cutting the chicanes or "shorting" the track at any point is strictly prohibited on all parts of the track, including the asphalt-areas in behind out-of track-lines. Track specific boundaries will be clarified for certain tracks if it is not generally obvious.
K:
If a driver wants to retire from a race, the driver concerned must not exit the race. The driver must find a position on the track where the driver will not endanger other drivers, park their car by coming to a complete stop and turning on the emergency brake and wait for the race to end. If you do not come to a full stop and turn on the brake your car may drive on by itself
L:
No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect. Familiarity with the car and track is expected. Do not go into a Sunday night without having practiced and expect to be able to late brake or make other aggressive maneuvers without incident.
M:
If you are found guilty of any of these rules, the behaviour will be evaluated and penalty assessed by the Race Stewards as per the penalty system..
N:
When racing or entering a S.N.A.I.L. Sunday night race, all racers are expected to have fully broken in cars with a fresh oil change. All racers' cars should have the same horsepower, PP and tires.
02: Event Participation:
A:
If for any reason you know prior to a race you’ll be unable to attend, please advise by posting on the thread as soon as possible. An advanced notice of 24 hours is expected. Notices inside of 24 hours are still expected. If you fail to note your absence at all, you may be putting yourself first in line for relegation.
B:
As a general rule, if there isn’t a stated rule, then the rules as they are within a program will apply - both intentional and coincidental. I.e. the way a matter is handled by a racing program is the way that it will be interpreted by the Race Stewards.
03: Pit Etiquette:
A:
Cars on the race track have right-of-way over cars entering the race track from the pits. You have to take care not to interfere with other drivers on the track. Swerving in front of upcoming cars is not allowed.
04: Rules Governing Car Contact:
A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.
B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.
C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.
D:
Some contact through a corner or through a pass may not be avoidable and may be deemed "incidental" should it not appear to affect the likely outcome of the section in question.
05: Running into the car ahead of you:
A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.
B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, you must do your best to avoid making the loss of control into a bigger incident. Some contact may be avoidable in these situations, but you are expected to minimize the impact of it to the best of your ability. Accidents may happen.
C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.
06: Contact Concessions:
A:
If there is contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.
B:
If the appropriate contact concession is carried out by the guilty driver then they may avoid or reduce the severity of any penalties that might otherwise apply as per the S.N.A.I.L. penalty system.
C:
If the appropriate contact concession is not carried out by the guilty party then greater penalties would apply.
D:
If you have to slow down to let the other player through, move out of the racing line first before you slow down. Coming to a full stop is not allowed, just continue at a lower pace out of the racing line until the other driver passes you again.
07: Corner Rights:
A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.
B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.
C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.
D:
The turn in point is the point at which the leading car begins their turn into the corner–this may vary from the point at which you turn into the corner.
E:
If an ahead driver has clearly made an error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. However, the overtaking driver must still avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not necessarily justify a passing move. The ahead driver getting a bit out of shape at times doesn’t give you an automatic right to force a pass. You still have to pass safely and without undue contact.
F:
Drivers are expected to set buttons up for side views as "I didn't see you" is not an excuse if you collide with another driver when racing.
08: Standing Start Guidelines:
A:
Additional caution and care must be taken when beginning a race with a standing start. All of the above rules in regard to contact apply during the start and first corner of the race.
B:
Be Patient. Begin the race at a normal pace that will not cause you to run into cars in front of you. Don't begin by steering to one side and attempting to barge through the pack. Conversely, don't begin at a slow pace that will make you an obstruction or barrier to cars behind you.
C:
Your goal on turn 1 should not be to get to the front, but rather to continue racing cleanly picking up one spot at a time. Look ahead more than one car. Due to field compression, a compact field will run slower through the first few turns than a spread out one. Leave some extra space, but not too much. Drivers behind you won't be expecting sudden braking. If you are behind a few cars in line, be prepared to brake extra early for a turn, as each car will be braking a bit farther back on the track than the one in front of it in order to avoid contact.
D:
A racer who runs into you may have been punted. Don't automatically assume malicious intent.
E:
All of the rules in regard to contact concession apply if you knock a racer off track during the start of the race. If you cause a wreck, you are required to wait for all players who go off track as a result, regardless of whether you contacted them directly or not. If you are involved in a wreck which you did not cause, you are not required to wait
9: Defensive Driving:
A:
Leading cars have the right to choose their own line down a straight. They can change their racing line once while driving down a straight (Move from the outside line to the inside, or vice versa). As they approach the next corner, they can return to the racing line of their choice. However, they are not allowed to change their line when the behind driver is directly behind and changes his line to try and make a pass. If your movement causes an accident, you are responsible.
B:
Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. I.e. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette. In fact, apart from the restrictions of rule 10:A, a leading driver can drive any line which they feel is the most inconvenient for any following car to try to pass them.
C:
Drivers that are about to get lapped have to make sure not to interfere with the lapping cars. The driver being lapped should stay on the racing line but slow down just enough to allow the lead driver an easy pass. Keep your racing line predictable and try to stay out of the way.
10: Group Battle:
A:
When approaching a battle with 2 or more cars, be extra careful since those cars can change driving lines quickly when trying to defend/overtake. The cars in front will already be driving close, so finding a good overtaking spot is much harder. The same rules apply as when overtaking a single car.
B:
If you cause a crash in a group battle wait for all the effected drivers who were in front or/and driving next to you and let them get past. This doesn't include affected drivers who were driving behind you.
C:
When a crash occurs in a group battle, it’s vital to minimize risks for additional crashes. Slow down if needed, and try to drive on the clear side of the track. Overtaking is still allowed, but only under 1 or more of these conditions:
• The risk of hitting other cars is minimal.
• You overtake to avoid crashing into cars in front of you.
• Slowing down would make you a mobile obstruction for other cars.
D:
When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so. This rule does not restrict bump drafting.
11: Initial Fault:
A:
If you make a significant driving error and another driver or drivers attempts to capitalize on it, they have the right to do so. Do not try to collide or retaliate because of your error.
For Example: If you go wide at a corner and a close behind car tries to take advantage of this by moving up the inside, you should leave room for them, whether or not they had overlap going into the corner. They must also leave you room. This rule doesn't apply to small errors that don't affect the speed, direction and outcome. This is a bit of a grey area and requires good judgment on both parts.
B:
You can always protest after the race if you think you’ve been wronged by notifying the Division Steward and the other racer/s via Private Message ONLY. Do not flood the forum with he said, she said business or we will throw out your protest.
12: Ghost Cars:
A:
A ghost car is any car that is transparent and/or flickering transparent.
B:
If your car is a ghost car, you take on the responsibilities of the following "Recovering from an incident" and "Re-entering to the track after running off" topics as you are at fault. You also give the correct driving line to the non-ghosted cars (taking a turn wide so others can pass on the inside). Do not return to the driving line if possible until your car is back to the normal state. This may be hard to tell if you use bumper cam, but do your utmost to determine your state. Naturally, if you are serving a penalty, assume you are ghosted.
C:
If you are approaching one or more ghost cars on the track, you must avoid any contact with them at all as they may return to a normal state immediately. Then the contact would be your fault and in turn you may become a ghost car and have to make room for others while you car slows due to the penalty. Passing through a ghost car that is not entirely out of control in an effort to pass them will bring a penalty.
D:
If your car becomes a ghost, you are not permitted to overtake other non-ghosted cars. If you happen to overtake a car while being a ghost, you must return to your original position safely.
E:
If your car is a ghost you are not allowed to intentionally drive through other cars, just as they are not allowed to drive through you. In short, all cars on the track should be considered solid, no matter what state the game displays them.
13: Recovering from an incident:
A:
It is the responsibility of the driver recovering from any incident to take all necessary care to not interfere with any cars still on the track and not part of the incident. A relevant incident may include, but is not limited to -
• Being spun out
• Facing the wrong way,
• Perpendicular to the track
• Going abnormally slow for where you are on the track.
• Getting penalized for any amount of time by the penalty system
If you are off the track then the rules on "Re-entering to the track after running off" apply.
B:
In the event that your car turns to a 'ghost car' you assume the responsibility of avoiding hazards at all costs, refer to 13-B.
14: Re-entering to the track after running off:
A:
It is the responsibility of the car returning to the track to ensure there are no collisions so that no other drivers have to maneuver or brake suddenly to allow you to resume racing. If there's a chance of a collision, wait and be patient as other drivers have the right of way.
B:
An off track incident includes:
• Being stuck or pinned to a wall or railing.
• More than two tires leaving the track at any one time
• Any situation where the car may lose control and create cross traffic
C:
Do not reverse back onto the track unless it is necessary. If you are backing up away from a wall first look around you to avoid a collision and as the collision would be your fault.
D:
Re-enter the track parallel to the road, slowly and gently, and always with great care. This gives you the best opportunity to see what’s coming up the track behind you, and it also gives drivers coming up on you the best chance to orientate themselves to your situation.
15: Track Boundaries:
A:
Colliding with or using walls, fences or other obstacle is forbidden, whether time is gained or not.
B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.
C:
All green areas are not part of the track unless otherwise stated by the Stewards prior to the race.
D:
Curbs, sidewalks/pavements are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.
E:
Tarmac/Asphalt or any other kind of surface mentioned above that are situated beyond the normal limits of the track, Run-off areas for example, are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.
F:
Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc are part of the track unless otherwise stated.
G:
Tarmac/Asphalt partially covered with dirt or sand are part of the track unless otherwise stated.
H:
You must not use any cheats or bugs in the game. The use of cheats or bugs affecting the cars performance is forbidden.
I:
The use of external cheats is forbidden.
J:
The use of shortcuts which are based on bugs in the game is prohibited. The fact that the game will allow you to take shortcuts does not account for a valid run.
K:
Any other way of cheating we haven't thought of is forbidden.
16: Qualifying:
A:
Qualifying is not racing. Drivers should space out amply early on their out lap to completely avoid other racers and the effects of them.
B:
Drafting during qualifying is forbidden.
C:
If you have an off or are slowed during qualifying, it is your responsibility to maintain proper distance from the car behind you or pull over and wait for another gap before continuing on.
D:
In short, it is the ahead driver's responsibility to make sure that they are not so close to the behind driver that they can draft off of you.
17: Complaints:
All complaints relating to a racing incident must follow this procedure:
1. Contact the driver concerned and the Division Steward through PM.
2. Discuss in a manner that is constructive.
3. Name PM subject title 'Racing Complaint'
4. Supply Members PSN_Tag
5. Supply Round and Race of the incident
6. Supply Lap, Turn, and race time of the incident
7. Supply Details and any other relevant information relating to the incident
A driver has 24 hours to bring up a racing incident. The Stewards will review the incident and make a final decision no more than 48 hours after the race.
We have several levels of incidents, each with their own point penalty ranges. This will allow us to better penalize people based on the scope of the incident. The levels are as follows:
Level 1: A bump. This is more than "incidental" contact. Some incidents not including direct contact may also be considered a penalty at this level. Likely this was just an accident or lapse of concentration that created an incident. 1-4 Point Penalty
Level 2: A shove. This may be the result of carrying too much speed into a corner or braking too late, causing moderate to major contact. A lack of situational awareness may have been at fault. 5-8 Point Penalty
Level 3: The offending driver was likely too aggressive in a pass, creating a situation where his car met another at a drastic difference in speed. This incident showed a lack of good racecraft. 9-12 Point Penalty
Level 4: This is an incident from which complete recovery is realistically impossible. The offending driver likely came on an overtly aggressive line or made a move that directly put others in jeopardy. There was no intent to impede or cause an incident, but the driver clearly showed a lack of judgment and a disregard for the tenets of good racecraft. 13-16 Point Penalty
Level 5: A particularly egregious incident. Intention may be believed or even known. Incidents of this caliber are race-ending and reputation-scarring. 17+ Point Penalty. This level of penalty would require extensive discussions by the Stewards and the guilty party, and would be open to any penalties as we see fit.
- Any of these penalties except for level 5 could be halved with the proper concession after the fact during the race.
- These levels are guidelines for us and you, and other penalties may be assessed as deemed necessary.
- Each of these penalties will bring about a probation period based on the level. A level 1 penalty will bring a 1 week probation period, level 2 brings 2 weeks, etc. The probation period doubles the effect of any incurred penalties.
- Multiple penalties in one week will be added to create a longer probation period: i.e. Level 1 + Level 3 penalties = 4 week probation.
- A maximum 6 week probation period can be incurred. At this point, the Stewards and the penalized racer will need to have a conversation.
- Multiple penalties during one week will not double the penalty points for that week.
Penalties for ghosting violations, or for cutting corner or going four wheels off track to gain an advantage can be reported directly to the Steward by any driver witnessing the problem without talking to the other driver first.
Stewards have the ability to assess penalties that are found during race reviewing, but we will not actively look for things to penalize.
Thank you.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
The S.N.A.I.L. OLR!
The S.N.A.I.L. OLR!
This is, in many respects, identical to the GTP OLR, with the new parts highlighted in green. Some parts have changed, but the general tenets of racecraft have not.
Read it. Learn it. Live it.
Green text highlights the differences between this and the GTP OLR.
The S.N.A.I.L. OLR
01: S.N.A.I.L. OLR General Rules:
A:
These rules are subject to change as there are constant updates/changes coming out for GT5, it is your responsibility to update yourself on the changes. The Stewards will post in the thread when a change has been made and what the change entails.
B:
All drivers are expected to make themselves familiar with the racing rules before entering any race or competition. If you stumble across a rule that is unclear to you, make sure you fully understand that rule before you enter the race or competition. You can post your questions in the S.N.A.I.L. thread.
C:
You are expected to compete in a fair and honest manner. Fair and honest means according to the S.N.A.I.L. online racing rules, not according to your own interpretation of fair and honest.
D:
You are expected to drive responsibly in a way that’s not likely to ruin the racing enjoyment of your fellow drivers.
E:
You are expected not to submit to bad general behaviour under all circumstances.
F:
Try to maintain a generally affable nature with the rest of the group; both in the thread and on the game. Some friendly rib-jabbing is expected. This isn't church.
G:
You are expected to behave like sporting gentlemen and women at all times.
H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.
I:
Aggressive driving is strictly prohibited.
J:
Cutting the chicanes or "shorting" the track at any point is strictly prohibited on all parts of the track, including the asphalt-areas in behind out-of track-lines. Track specific boundaries will be clarified for certain tracks if it is not generally obvious.
K:
If a driver wants to retire from a race, the driver concerned must not exit the race. The driver must find a position on the track where the driver will not endanger other drivers, park their car by coming to a complete stop and turning on the emergency brake and wait for the race to end. If you do not come to a full stop and turn on the brake your car may drive on by itself
L:
No careless driving. Always show respect for your fellow racers. Be careful. Show some patience. Understand the limitations of your car and yourself and drive accordingly. Driving online in a racing sim is NOT exactly the same as real life racing in every respect. Familiarity with the car and track is expected. Do not go into a Sunday night without having practiced and expect to be able to late brake or make other aggressive maneuvers without incident.
M:
If you are found guilty of any of these rules, the behaviour will be evaluated and penalty assessed by the Race Stewards as per the penalty system..
N:
When racing or entering a S.N.A.I.L. Sunday night race, all racers are expected to have fully broken in cars with a fresh oil change. All racers' cars should have the same horsepower, PP and tires.
02: Event Participation:
A:
If for any reason you know prior to a race you’ll be unable to attend, please advise by posting on the thread as soon as possible. An advanced notice of 24 hours is expected. Notices inside of 24 hours are still expected. If you fail to note your absence at all, you may be putting yourself first in line for relegation.
B:
As a general rule, if there isn’t a stated rule, then the rules as they are within a program will apply - both intentional and coincidental. I.e. the way a matter is handled by a racing program is the way that it will be interpreted by the Race Stewards.
03: Pit Etiquette:
A:
Cars on the race track have right-of-way over cars entering the race track from the pits. You have to take care not to interfere with other drivers on the track. Swerving in front of upcoming cars is not allowed.
04: Rules Governing Car Contact:
A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.
B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.
C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.
D:
Some contact through a corner or through a pass may not be avoidable and may be deemed "incidental" should it not appear to affect the likely outcome of the section in question.
05: Running into the car ahead of you:
A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.
B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, you must do your best to avoid making the loss of control into a bigger incident. Some contact may be avoidable in these situations, but you are expected to minimize the impact of it to the best of your ability. Accidents may happen.
C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.
06: Contact Concessions:
A:
If there is contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.
B:
If the appropriate contact concession is carried out by the guilty driver then they may avoid or reduce the severity of any penalties that might otherwise apply as per the S.N.A.I.L. penalty system.
C:
If the appropriate contact concession is not carried out by the guilty party then greater penalties would apply.
D:
If you have to slow down to let the other player through, move out of the racing line first before you slow down. Coming to a full stop is not allowed, just continue at a lower pace out of the racing line until the other driver passes you again.
07: Corner Rights:
A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.
B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.
C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.
D:
The turn in point is the point at which the leading car begins their turn into the corner–this may vary from the point at which you turn into the corner.
E:
If an ahead driver has clearly made an error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. However, the overtaking driver must still avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not necessarily justify a passing move. The ahead driver getting a bit out of shape at times doesn’t give you an automatic right to force a pass. You still have to pass safely and without undue contact.
F:
Drivers are expected to set buttons up for side views as "I didn't see you" is not an excuse if you collide with another driver when racing.
08: Standing Start Guidelines:
A:
Additional caution and care must be taken when beginning a race with a standing start. All of the above rules in regard to contact apply during the start and first corner of the race.
B:
Be Patient. Begin the race at a normal pace that will not cause you to run into cars in front of you. Don't begin by steering to one side and attempting to barge through the pack. Conversely, don't begin at a slow pace that will make you an obstruction or barrier to cars behind you.
C:
Your goal on turn 1 should not be to get to the front, but rather to continue racing cleanly picking up one spot at a time. Look ahead more than one car. Due to field compression, a compact field will run slower through the first few turns than a spread out one. Leave some extra space, but not too much. Drivers behind you won't be expecting sudden braking. If you are behind a few cars in line, be prepared to brake extra early for a turn, as each car will be braking a bit farther back on the track than the one in front of it in order to avoid contact.
D:
A racer who runs into you may have been punted. Don't automatically assume malicious intent.
E:
All of the rules in regard to contact concession apply if you knock a racer off track during the start of the race. If you cause a wreck, you are required to wait for all players who go off track as a result, regardless of whether you contacted them directly or not. If you are involved in a wreck which you did not cause, you are not required to wait
9: Defensive Driving:
A:
Leading cars have the right to choose their own line down a straight. They can change their racing line once while driving down a straight (Move from the outside line to the inside, or vice versa). As they approach the next corner, they can return to the racing line of their choice. However, they are not allowed to change their line when the behind driver is directly behind and changes his line to try and make a pass. If your movement causes an accident, you are responsible.
B:
Leading cars have the right to take their line of choice through corners. I.e. they may drive a defensive line around the inside of a corner to protect their position, thereby forcing an attacking driver to try to pass around the outside. This is not blocking and is part of normal racing etiquette. In fact, apart from the restrictions of rule 10:A, a leading driver can drive any line which they feel is the most inconvenient for any following car to try to pass them.
C:
Drivers that are about to get lapped have to make sure not to interfere with the lapping cars. The driver being lapped should stay on the racing line but slow down just enough to allow the lead driver an easy pass. Keep your racing line predictable and try to stay out of the way.
10: Group Battle:
A:
When approaching a battle with 2 or more cars, be extra careful since those cars can change driving lines quickly when trying to defend/overtake. The cars in front will already be driving close, so finding a good overtaking spot is much harder. The same rules apply as when overtaking a single car.
B:
If you cause a crash in a group battle wait for all the effected drivers who were in front or/and driving next to you and let them get past. This doesn't include affected drivers who were driving behind you.
C:
When a crash occurs in a group battle, it’s vital to minimize risks for additional crashes. Slow down if needed, and try to drive on the clear side of the track. Overtaking is still allowed, but only under 1 or more of these conditions:
• The risk of hitting other cars is minimal.
• You overtake to avoid crashing into cars in front of you.
• Slowing down would make you a mobile obstruction for other cars.
D:
When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so. This rule does not restrict bump drafting.
11: Initial Fault:
A:
If you make a significant driving error and another driver or drivers attempts to capitalize on it, they have the right to do so. Do not try to collide or retaliate because of your error.
For Example: If you go wide at a corner and a close behind car tries to take advantage of this by moving up the inside, you should leave room for them, whether or not they had overlap going into the corner. They must also leave you room. This rule doesn't apply to small errors that don't affect the speed, direction and outcome. This is a bit of a grey area and requires good judgment on both parts.
B:
You can always protest after the race if you think you’ve been wronged by notifying the Division Steward and the other racer/s via Private Message ONLY. Do not flood the forum with he said, she said business or we will throw out your protest.
12: Ghost Cars:
A:
A ghost car is any car that is transparent and/or flickering transparent.
B:
If your car is a ghost car, you take on the responsibilities of the following "Recovering from an incident" and "Re-entering to the track after running off" topics as you are at fault. You also give the correct driving line to the non-ghosted cars (taking a turn wide so others can pass on the inside). Do not return to the driving line if possible until your car is back to the normal state. This may be hard to tell if you use bumper cam, but do your utmost to determine your state. Naturally, if you are serving a penalty, assume you are ghosted.
C:
If you are approaching one or more ghost cars on the track, you must avoid any contact with them at all as they may return to a normal state immediately. Then the contact would be your fault and in turn you may become a ghost car and have to make room for others while you car slows due to the penalty. Passing through a ghost car that is not entirely out of control in an effort to pass them will bring a penalty.
D:
If your car becomes a ghost, you are not permitted to overtake other non-ghosted cars. If you happen to overtake a car while being a ghost, you must return to your original position safely.
E:
If your car is a ghost you are not allowed to intentionally drive through other cars, just as they are not allowed to drive through you. In short, all cars on the track should be considered solid, no matter what state the game displays them.
13: Recovering from an incident:
A:
It is the responsibility of the driver recovering from any incident to take all necessary care to not interfere with any cars still on the track and not part of the incident. A relevant incident may include, but is not limited to -
• Being spun out
• Facing the wrong way,
• Perpendicular to the track
• Going abnormally slow for where you are on the track.
• Getting penalized for any amount of time by the penalty system
If you are off the track then the rules on "Re-entering to the track after running off" apply.
B:
In the event that your car turns to a 'ghost car' you assume the responsibility of avoiding hazards at all costs, refer to 13-B.
14: Re-entering to the track after running off:
A:
It is the responsibility of the car returning to the track to ensure there are no collisions so that no other drivers have to maneuver or brake suddenly to allow you to resume racing. If there's a chance of a collision, wait and be patient as other drivers have the right of way.
B:
An off track incident includes:
• Being stuck or pinned to a wall or railing.
• More than two tires leaving the track at any one time
• Any situation where the car may lose control and create cross traffic
C:
Do not reverse back onto the track unless it is necessary. If you are backing up away from a wall first look around you to avoid a collision and as the collision would be your fault.
D:
Re-enter the track parallel to the road, slowly and gently, and always with great care. This gives you the best opportunity to see what’s coming up the track behind you, and it also gives drivers coming up on you the best chance to orientate themselves to your situation.
15: Track Boundaries:
A:
Colliding with or using walls, fences or other obstacle is forbidden, whether time is gained or not.
B:
Two wheels (except when airborne, where the vertical projection of the car onto the track counts) must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.
C:
All green areas are not part of the track unless otherwise stated by the Stewards prior to the race.
D:
Curbs, sidewalks/pavements are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.
E:
Tarmac/Asphalt or any other kind of surface mentioned above that are situated beyond the normal limits of the track, Run-off areas for example, are not part of the track unless otherwise stated.
F:
Any kind of rumble strip made of concrete, stone etc are part of the track unless otherwise stated.
G:
Tarmac/Asphalt partially covered with dirt or sand are part of the track unless otherwise stated.
H:
You must not use any cheats or bugs in the game. The use of cheats or bugs affecting the cars performance is forbidden.
I:
The use of external cheats is forbidden.
J:
The use of shortcuts which are based on bugs in the game is prohibited. The fact that the game will allow you to take shortcuts does not account for a valid run.
K:
Any other way of cheating we haven't thought of is forbidden.
16: Qualifying:
A:
Qualifying is not racing. Drivers should space out amply early on their out lap to completely avoid other racers and the effects of them.
B:
Drafting during qualifying is forbidden.
C:
If you have an off or are slowed during qualifying, it is your responsibility to maintain proper distance from the car behind you or pull over and wait for another gap before continuing on.
D:
In short, it is the ahead driver's responsibility to make sure that they are not so close to the behind driver that they can draft off of you.
17: Complaints:
All complaints relating to a racing incident must follow this procedure:
1. Contact the driver concerned and the Division Steward through PM.
2. Discuss in a manner that is constructive.
3. Name PM subject title 'Racing Complaint'
4. Supply Members PSN_Tag
5. Supply Round and Race of the incident
6. Supply Lap, Turn, and race time of the incident
7. Supply Details and any other relevant information relating to the incident
A driver has 24 hours to bring up a racing incident. The Stewards will review the incident and make a final decision no more than 48 hours after the race.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
We have several levels of incidents, each with their own point penalty ranges. This will allow us to better penalize people based on the scope of the incident. The levels are as follows:
Level 1: A bump. This is more than "incidental" contact. Some incidents not including direct contact may also be considered a penalty at this level. Likely this was just an accident or lapse of concentration that created an incident. 1-4 Point Penalty
Level 2: A shove. This may be the result of carrying too much speed into a corner or braking too late, causing moderate to major contact. A lack of situational awareness may have been at fault. 5-8 Point Penalty
Level 3: The offending driver was likely too aggressive in a pass, creating a situation where his car met another at a drastic difference in speed. This incident showed a lack of good racecraft. 9-12 Point Penalty
Level 4: This is an incident from which complete recovery is realistically impossible. The offending driver likely came on an overtly aggressive line or made a move that directly put others in jeopardy. There was no intent to impede or cause an incident, but the driver clearly showed a lack of judgment and a disregard for the tenets of good racecraft. 13-16 Point Penalty
Level 5: A particularly egregious incident. Intention may be believed or even known. Incidents of this caliber are race-ending and reputation-scarring. 17+ Point Penalty. This level of penalty would require extensive discussions by the Stewards and the guilty party, and would be open to any penalties as we see fit.
- Any of these penalties except for level 5 could be halved with the proper concession after the fact during the race.
- These levels are guidelines for us and you, and other penalties may be assessed as deemed necessary.
- Each of these penalties will bring about a probation period based on the level. A level 1 penalty will bring a 1 week probation period, level 2 brings 2 weeks, etc. The probation period doubles the effect of any incurred penalties.
- Multiple penalties in one week will be added to create a longer probation period: i.e. Level 1 + Level 3 penalties = 4 week probation.
- A maximum 6 week probation period can be incurred. At this point, the Stewards and the penalized racer will need to have a conversation.
- Multiple penalties during one week will not double the penalty points for that week.
Penalties for ghosting violations, or for cutting corner or going four wheels off track to gain an advantage can be reported directly to the Steward by any driver witnessing the problem without talking to the other driver first.
Stewards have the ability to assess penalties that are found during race reviewing, but we will not actively look for things to penalize.
- 760
- DrKronin
It would help to bring Sarthe back into play…I missed the one week that we raced there but from what I understand it's near-un-do-able thanks to boundary issues.
Bring on the debate of the week!
La Sarthe would be great to have available. And yes, the penalties were just weird there. Both chicanes have strange, hard to predict penalty areas you can hit while still being 8 feet from a SNAIL penalty. Of course, if we turn them off, qualifying could be an issue. Not sure how to deal with that.
I suggest that we turn penalties on/off on a per track basis, unless that would be too complicated. I don't think they add much to Fuji (there are still some pretty blatant cuts you can make, in spite of the excessive protection of the outside of turns 1 and 2), and we've already dumped them at Kart Space. I'm also not a fan of the Eau Rouge penalty you get if you decide to follow the same line F1 cars always take, and that it ghosts you in a spot that makes it pretty tricky for closely following cars to miss you. If only they would drop that and add a penalty for taking Pouhon wide. But, I digress.
Bring it on, indeed! 👍
- 549
- louisiana
- the2armedmen
- 1,573
- Rural Nebraska
- Apmaddock
Heh. You're right about Eau Rough and Pouhon. You get blasted for nipping a corner (it cost me a possible win in the Thursday series) but you get to watch people go wide at Pouhon in front of you while you fight to stay in the lines…then the same will often happen at Blanchimont (the last high-speed left before the final chicane).
…that said I think at Spa it keeps people in check a bit at Eau Rouge. Honestly, if you went much farther left than is allowed you'd be cutting pretty bad.
…that said I think at Spa it keeps people in check a bit at Eau Rouge. Honestly, if you went much farther left than is allowed you'd be cutting pretty bad.
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- 3,346
- Albania
- 2,760
- Québec
- GTP_WorstDriver
I truly wish D1 dropped the penalty system. Bring the SIM reality back into real world.
I agree with that and we should make the asphalt outside the white line at indy road part of the track.👍
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
I truly wish D1 dropped the penalty system. Bring the SIM reality back into real world.
I don't think you can honestly say that for every single driver in D1. I think that there's at least one person in each division that will take any advantage they're given.
Why? The boundary at Indy Road has been the same for as long as I've been in SNAIL; I don't see a good reason to change it now.
- 814
- California
- hillracing
I truly wish D1 dropped the penalty system. Bring the SIM reality back into real world.
Deep Forrest got Hill last night in front of me. I'm convinces he was clean and with in OLR.
I agree with this. I don't believe that anyone in D1 would cut the course intentionally. Besides if they did we can always protest and that would handle that. For example someone last night was going over the line at indy and we all brought it to that drivers attention that it was out of bounds. The pack is so tight in D1 that you can't get away with shortcutting. I say lets shut off penalties in D1. We do it in STaTS and it works fine.
I agree with this also. If you watch video of f1 cars in that corner they went over the line. Also in later years they got rid of the line altogether. My problem with it is it's such an easy place to make a mistake and go wide unintentionally and then get a penalty for a small mistake.
Handlebar
Premium
- 3,969
- Herndon, VA
- HandlebarMustash
So the guy who slows down enough to stay inbounds should let the guy who doesn't stay inbounds (because of his higher, even too-high rate of speed) go with no penalty?
Sometimes it may be faster to use a one way road, say... on your way to work, then - it's faster, right? "But officer, I was only GOING one way!" Rules can be changed, but that's before a race. After a race, it's not as much a change in rules as a plea bargain, at least in my opinion.
Sometimes it may be faster to use a one way road, say... on your way to work, then - it's faster, right? "But officer, I was only GOING one way!" Rules can be changed, but that's before a race. After a race, it's not as much a change in rules as a plea bargain, at least in my opinion.
- 1,716
- Culver City CA
- tcrash15
I'm sorry! I just don't see the logic of turning penalties off for D1 and keeping it on for all other divisions. If you turn off the penalties you either turn it off for all divisions or keep them on for all divisions. I think everybody knows by now what tracks and what part of that specific track you will get a penalty if you short-cut. If you receive a penalty that means you shortcuted. If you make a mistake and shortcut then you deserve the penalty. I think the stewards have enough on their plate now then having to look at every race and every driver to make sure that nobody shortcuted in a race because penalties were off.
- 1,106
- Georgia
- Kendawg198
This is true. I remember my first race in D1. I thought to myself. Man, these guys don't play around. But after a couple of weeks you figure out how to race hard and aggressive but clean. Rubbing and bumping is clean in D1. If I don't get knocked off or spun out then it is just racing.
- 738
- Maryland
- QwietStorm03
I agree, it would be a nightmare for stewards who are already overloaded. Even if we policed each other when shortcutting happens it's still an added burden for the stewards to review.
As for turning the penalties off in D1 and leaving them on in the rest of the divisions, there is a valid rebuttal but I'm not really going to waste my time on it because it would be pointless in my opinion.
- 3,073
- Charlottesville
- dabneyd
- deadguy79
If you have a "valid rebuttal" voice it. How could it be pointless if it's valid?
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