1080p or 720p?

[G.T.Ace]

Actually you can see and feel a lot smoother framerates, the difference just gets less and less noticable. If you have a good PC you can test it with some games. Lock the framerate to 30, then 60 and then for example 90 (if your PC can handle it), some games allow you to do this, i think LFS has this option.

EDIT:

I think PAL is 576 progressive lines

No, PAL is interlaced, the newer NTSC resolutions are progressive afaik (480p).

 

[Devedander]

Actually you can see and feel a lot smoother framerates, the difference just gets less and less noticable. If you have a good PC you can test it with some games. Lock the framerate to 30, then 60 and then for example 90 (if your PC can handle it), some games allow you to do this, i think LFS has this option.

EDIT:
No, PAL is interlaced, the newer NTSC resolutions are progressive afaik (480p).

Yes I have tested it a lot. I used to play a lot of CS and there it was very noticeable. Even well past 60 fps it was noteable although indeed the benefit dropped off rather quickly. The reason you can tell so easily is that there is no motion blur in games (well then there wasn't) so your eyes could detect the gap between where an edge was one frame and then where it was the next. The more FPS the smaller and less noteable the gap.

This is evidence when games with good motion blur look buttery smooth even at 30FPS and why real life movies and video do too.

You are right about PAL... I don't know why I thought it was Progressive...

 

[Mubble]

I have always had a problem with these charts, just like the statement that the human eye cannot detect faster than 30fps so 60fps doesn't matter... I even used to say that FPS thing... until I realized that no matter what the math and tests say, I could tell a difference and most people could.

Most of these testa re done by measuring the eye and brains ability to isolate a certain detail and then use that to determine when you can and cannot see a difference.

For instance when they say you can't see the difference between 1080p and 720p they are usually using some calculation of how small a dot the eye can percieve per degree of field of vision. But what is not accounted for is that you can see the EFFECT of smaller dots even if you can't make out the individual dots themselves.

Sometimes the loss of detail is noteable, especially in fine repeating patterns. Sometimes it is a percieved hardness of an edge... sometimes certain kinds of motion make it more noteable.

Kind of like with the human eyes ability to pick up more than 30fps. You might not be able to accurately recognize a shape of a certain complexity or isolate an image at more than 30fps, but you can certainly tell the difference especially on a display in the absense of motion blur.


I personally can tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on good content at much farther than most charts or math say I can.



I still say CRTs have some ubeatable image qualities...

However the irony of your statement is that 1080i really has less lines of data on screen at any given time than 720p (540 lines interlaced to come out to 1080... I think PAL is 576 progressive lines so technically 1080i has less lines of data on screen at any given time than regular old PAL )

I can't argue with an intelligent answer like that 👍

 

[jedaye]

KY said that they can add dynamic weather tomorrow. So I don't think you will get better weather at 720p. Since 1080p has a better picture, I'm guessing it takes more effort to achieve that pristine quality.

 

[yanfloist]

I would like GT5 to run at 1920x1080, 720p is getting old. Full HD is the future and who knows, 1080p may even be old school one day.

 

[Aloha62_2]

I would like GT5 to run at 1920x1080, 720p is getting old. Full HD is the future and who knows, 1080p may even be old school one day.

i wouldnt call 720p old, its new for this gen of consoles which has only been a few years and most games dont even reach that even ignoring the wii with its sd output there are a lot of console games that dont even reach 720.

 

[astrosdude91]

I got a 1080p 50 inch plasma bout a month ago, and I want to use it! Bring on GT5 in 1080p!

 

[dzidza]

GT5P runs in 1280x1080p and upscales to 1920x1080p, PD tries to do real 1920x1080p for the full GT5, im curious if they can achieve that..

where did you read this, if true it would be awesome :-)

 

[RedBaron]

When drop to 720p means much more real effects, better DOF smoothing, better track detail, much more stable framerate, few more cars on the tracks and possibility of dynamic lighting and weather, i can say only "YES, DO IT NOW!"

 

[PureAwesomeness]

I went from a Sony Wega 38" running 720p through a component cable to a Sony Bravia 40" with 1080p through hdmi and the difference is astounding. There is no way that PD (a Sony firm) would make such a sacrifice as to reduce the resolution.

 

[GT4Ever]

I would suck if they lower the resolution. But if that is what has to be done to get weather effects and posible AA running then i would prefer it.

 

[G.T.Ace]

where did you read this, if true it would be awesome :-)

It was in a TGS interview, cant find it right now.

 

[TokyoDrift]

If you have an Full HD screen, 1080p is really enjoyable. If you play on a relatively big, but still 720p TV... forget it, no difference.

Garbage. Sorry, but these "resolution" debates never cease to amaze me.

Firstly, everything is related to viewing distance. There comes a point where it is not humanly possible to tell the difference between a 720p and 1080p image on equivalent screens, regardless of actual difference. However, below that threshold, there is clear difference between the quality of GT5 in 720p and 1080p modes.

It's not always the case - some games show little improvement for being in 1080p over 720p, and I find that for most movies, at my viewing distance anyway, 720p is almost indistinguishable from 1080p. The exceptions are computer animations like Wall-E, Ratatouille, Finding Nemo etc., where they tend to look crisper in 1080p. But anyway, I digress...

Quoting 1080p is no different to 720p is clearly stupid if you do not state screen size, viewing distance, and the type of material being viewed. The rest is down to your personal eyesight.

 

[abaxas]

Ok, how about this for weirdness.

I play GTP5P on a 19inch 'HD' tv with a native resolution of 1440x900. You would assume it wouldnt matter if you used 720p ot 1080p. However there is a massive difference, for some reason the scalar much prefers 1080p content to 720p.

Do what is best for your setup and which you prefer.

 

[chepe371]

I used to run it on a 42" Sharp Aquos and there you could tell 100%, 1080p is much sharper, colors are better, movement is more fluid.

 

[Seismica]

You also have to look at the TV quality. Resolution is not the only indication of picture quality.

The high-end Samsungs and Sonys tend to be among the best. At the Demos, they all seem to use high quality Sony TVs to show off the looks of the game. Its odd how you can buy a 42" TV capable of displaying 1080p resolution for around £350, but then you see one which on the face of it is the same, same screen size, same resolution, same TV depth (i.e. the thickness of the actual screen, some of the low end ones are several inches thick) for around £900+. Its the subtle differences that arn't clearly shown when advertised that you need to look at.

Its like when buying cameras, or buying a new graphics card for your PC, there is one main attribute that influences your purchase, megapixels and graphics memory respectively, and they are not actually that important, there is so much more info you need to know.

So if you see no difference between 720p and 1080p, the chances are your TV is crap.

 

[Tompie913]

720p is wrong. 1080p is the future. And on my 50" 1080p TV, the difference is obvious.

Think of it this way: GT5 is the first racing game of the future. And in the future, we will all have large, full 1080p HD televisions. Therefore, Gran Turismo should have 1080p. Also, 1080p is the highest resolution that can be reasonably output from the PS3. And the higher the resolution, the closer to our benchmark: reality.

 

[Sureboss]

The future isn't 1080p, now is 1080p. The future has far bigger things in stall for us than 1080p.

 

[Seismica]

The future isn't 1080p, now is 1080p. The future has far bigger things in stall for us than 1080p.

Well, 720p is now, the majority of games work in 720p. 1080p is just a little better but not everyone has it yet.

 

[Jump_Ace]

As of October 30 2009 2160P is the future But I completely expect GT5 to be in 1080P.

Jerome

 

[Metfanant]

Its alot better and more comfortable to look at, especially for racing games.
You have a alot more natural FOV.

this makes no sense...it is still the exact same aspect ratio...

Unless you have a 42" screen or above, you won't see any difference between 1080p and 720p.

absolute nonsense...

I've got a 38" and can easily tell the difference.

what is the native resolution of your screen?? as it can only display one...

Anyway, it'll be designed in 1080p, as GT5P is.

except for the fact that GT5P is not a native 1080p game...it is upscaled to 1080p...

Yey, i love it when people say that nonesense.
I have a 24" monitor and the difference between the 2 resolutions is huge (of course you have to sit closer infront of a smaller screen).

but what is your monitor's native resolution??

Higher resolution is higher resolution.

do me a favor...rent 28 Days Later on Bu-ray and then come back and tell me that higher resolution automatically equals better....

However, with GT5P, I started out on a 40" 720p screen. It looked great of course, but those subtle lines of the cars, the black mesh-effect you get around windscreens, the wire fences...all had that blocky, shimmery look in 720p. I upgraded to a 46" 1080p screen, and the different in how GT5 looked was significant. Smooth lines to the cars, no more shimmer on the mesh...totally transformed the way it looks, and this will be one of the big 1up points over FIII.

im going to guess this has more to do with the upgrade in HDTV to the actual resolution....

Riiiight, and you think that any lack of dynamic weather and "terrible damage" is due to the game being 1080p?! Damage on most cars (non-race cars is what you are saying) is down to what the manufacturers will allow in their licensing, which clearly has nothing to do with resolution.

no, he has a very good point...it takes A LOT more processing power to render in 1080p over 720p....therefore sarifices need to be made in other areas...things like damage and weather all need to be dynamically calculated....and if more CPU/GPU power is being dedicated to rendering all the extra pixels, then the amount of extra particle effects like rain or parts that get damaged or fall off have to take a hit...

Of course hands down, without 1080p the game wouldn't look as great on my TV

depends on the scaler in your TV...yout 1080p set can only display one single resolution and that is 1080p. So everything you watch on your TV is actually in 1080p...

We're not trying to compete with Forza here, we're trying to use reality as a benchmark and we're pitching that against GT5. I think that's how critical many fans here are and I feel that 720 is almost seen as yesterday's resolution; not good enough for GT.

this is comical. I love how somehow 1080p makes the game closer to reality lol...

NO WAY. A lot of games that I have (COD4, CODWAW, Killzone 2 Midnight Club) supports 1080P so why not GT5 ? It's almost a must today, the only game I have that doesn't supports it is Shift, and it looks awful on my TV. (42 inch 1080i)

NONE of those games are actual 1080p they just simply support upscaling to 1080p...

I would like GT5 to run at 1920x1080, 720p is getting old. Full HD is the future and who knows, 1080p may even be old school one day.

there is no such thing as "Full HD" it is jut a marketing gimick...

I got a 1080p 50 inch plasma bout a month ago, and I want to use it! Bring on GT5 in 1080p!

you use it every time you turn it on. everything that set displays is in 1080p.

And the higher the resolution, the closer to our benchmark: reality.

resolution is only a single part of the equation....


it is a FACT that GT5 has higher (twice the amount) Anti-aliasing (less jaggy lines) when run in 720p...it is also a fact that GT5 is NOT a native 1080p game. If PD dropped the res to 720p and was able to up the AA and give us a better experience i would take it in a heartbeat.

 

[lalaurentide]

I doubt GT5 will be a real 1080p, the hardware lacks video memory and unless the environment, effects, postprocessing, shaders, etc. are plain like a simbin's game, it will be upscaled like GT5P.

We will have to wait for the next console generation for true HD gaming, sure they could have made uncharted 2 in 1080p but the game would have looked worst, resolution alone doesn't make a great game just like a processor alone doesn't make a great console, they went for the beefed up processor and a cheap 256mB video card and it was outdated at release because of that.

P.S. I bought a PS3 knowing it's limitation and i'm fine with that, the games are fun.

 

[chepe371]

The main thing is, Does it look good? Yes
Does it look better than everything else? Yes

Proof: my girl calls me one day and shes like "what did you to the the TV i cant change channels i tried everything all i see is this car commercial and sometimes the car changes but no one talks or nothing just a car on the screen"

So when i get home i check out "the problem" and turns out i left my PS3 on and GT5p is in demo mode. and i laughed at her and she said well Ffff you it looks so real.

 

[Cocomoto]

The main thing is, Does it look good? Yes
Does it look better than everything else? Yes

Proof: my girl calls me one day and shes like "what did you to the the TV i cant change channels i tried everything all i see is this car commercial and sometimes the car changes but no one talks or nothing just a car on the screen"

So when i get home i check out "the problem" and turns out i left my PS3 on and GT5p is in demo mode. and i laughed at her and she said well Ffff you it looks so real.

HAAHAHAHAAHAHAA

Now that was funny.

I'm not the best person to say because i rarely play in a HD TV, I played GT5P on my cousin TV running at 720p, and damn God ! It was amazing, everything looks so vividely.
I tried it with 1080i and 720p, 720p offer a better image, 1080i looks like my SD TV but with things less blured.

 

[phil-t]

If they can actually make use of the extra resolution, i.e. with higher resolution textures/detail etc, then 1080p is preferable for me..

However, 720p with 4xMSAA would be easily as acceptable, if it meant more 'effects' graphically..

That's the short answer anyway..

Yes.

Its alot better and more comfortable to look at, especially for racing games.
You have a alot more natural FOV.

I don't get the link between resolution and FOV, considering both are output at a 16:9 aspect ratio? maybe I don't understand what you mean.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Well maybe "FOV" was the wrong term, but you get alot more depth, it just feels more natural, like you can grab into the screen. Especially noticable in racing games, you can concentrate better on things like the apex of a corner etc.

this makes no sense...it is still the exact same aspect ratio...
See above

except for the fact that GT5P is not a native 1080p game...it is upscaled to 1080p...
1080 vertical lines, progressive, so yes it is 1080p just not "FullHD" (see below)

but what is your monitor's native resolution??
1920x1200, thats also why games get a bit stretched since i still havent found out how i can change it from 16:10 to 16:9 (you can do it though). But ive also seen native 720p displays.

do me a favor...rent 28 Days Later on Bu-ray and then come back and tell me that higher resolution automatically equals better....
Do me a favor and watch the same movie in SD, 720p and 1080p and i bet with you you will still get the best result in 1080p. Blu-ray is of course not a guarantee for a good picture quality.

no, he has a very good point...it takes A LOT more processing power to render in 1080p over 720p....therefore sarifices need to be made in other areas...things like damage and weather all need to be dynamically calculated....and if more CPU/GPU power is being dedicated to rendering all the extra pixels, then the amount of extra particle effects like rain or parts that get damaged or fall off have to take a hit...
Yes, but we dont know if 1080p is the hurdle or something else.

depends on the scaler in your TV...yout 1080p set can only display one single resolution and that is 1080p. So everything you watch on your TV is actually in 1080p...
You see a difference between upscaled and not, especially if your scaler isnt that good.

NONE of those games are actual 1080p they just simply support upscaling to 1080p...
Exactly.

there is no such thing as "Full HD" it is jut a marketing gimick...
Yes and no, of course it was made for marketing purposes, but it means 1920x1080 pixels native, progressive.

resolution is only a single part of the equation....
Thats definitely true.

it is a FACT that GT5 has higher (twice the amount) Anti-aliasing (less jaggy lines) when run in 720p...it is also a fact that GT5 is NOT a native 1080p game. If PD dropped the res to 720p and was able to up the AA and give us a better experience i would take it in a heartbeat.
Have you seen the game in 720p? It has more anti aliasing but it still looks better in 1080p. Its just crisper, richer, more natural. AA isnt everything.

 

[Radracing]

We want to go forward not backwards in technology. So no matter how you put it sharper and smoother is better. So with 1080p and a fast 240hz you get a better experience. We just have to wait until PS4 comes out and have more processing power to get more cars on the grid and what ever else is on your wish list. I mean 16 cars on the grid is already more than GT4 could do with LAN and more than a lot of the competition out there and don't worry about weather dynamics, PD is going to work this out them selves. If they pushed the release date just so they can work it out then I think they might be able to pull it off when GT5 comes out. Just wait and see.

 

[Dr.Boss.]

Listen, 1080p is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over 720p.
lets simply count pixels.
720p is 1280x720 = 921600 pixels
1080p is 1920x1080 = 2073600 pixels

2073600 - 921600 = 1152000 pixels.

Conclusion: If you compare a 50" 720p TV to a 50" 1080p TV.... the 1080p TV has more than twice the number of pixels in the same amount of space, meaning that each pixels is smaller which results in a sharper, more detailed image.

1080p is a huge step over 720p.

I really doubt that PD would even consider reducing the resolution or the frames per second





And for the record, 1080p is trumped by modern computer resolutions. For example, WQUXGA (the highest widescreen standard) is 3840x2400