2010 F1 Belgian Grand Prix

  • Thread starter waggles
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If they just put a gravel trap on the outside of a bend though, that would slow down an out of control car a lot faster than a run off area though.

But that's why they replaced gravel traps with run off areas in the first place. Unless you hit a gravel trap straight on and without being launched over a curb before hand, a car is likely to dig in and flip over - which is more dangerous for both the driver and any marshal or spectator who might be in the flight path.
 

The FIA have a rule in place for this situation, but don't want to enforce it .

I think the reason they do not want to enforce it could be very well linked to their efforts of keeping F1 popular.

If people get punishments all the time, contesting this in court, having the fans against FIA :yuck:, etc.. I do not believe that this will promote F1.

On the other hand if a driver makes a mistake, ends up in the gravel or lightly touches the barrier :scared:, it is a driver mistake, the FIA keeps their nose clear.

Although when making a rule, they should apply it all the time and for all drivers, I do believe that they should use practical ways of making it a fair and safe race, punishments seem hardly practical to me.

Then still they might have completely other political motivations and try to create a power position against Spa-Francorchamps management.
 
Although when making a rule, they should apply it all the time and for all drivers

The rule has been in the MSA handbook since... ever. All drivers in all disciplines in any series in the world know - the white lines define the track and you don't go outside them. Do it often enough and you're black-flagged.

F1 doesn't get special exemption from this rule - it's in the FIA Sporting Regulations too.
 
And it's not like the FIA would be punishing drivers all the time. If one does it and get punished, the rest of them will be more inclined in not doing the same. But if one does it and nothing happens to him, why would the rest not do the same?
 
I also think that what Anthony and Karun was also talking about was how the new run-off area had taking the edge off of Pouhon. They said about how it was such a challenging corner but now, due to the massive run off areas if a driver makes a mistake he can get away with losing very little time and usually without having their car damaged.
 
Those speedbumps at that one chicane(was half asleep so wasn't really paying attention to what chicane it was exactly) seem to be a good idea, perhaps put some of them there?

I'm really hoping Sutil does well tomorrow and Sunday.
 
Alonso fastest again, in P2, with Sutil behind him. Ferrari vs. Force India on Sunday?
 
Maybe,maybe not...remember last year??...It could easely be another force-india/ferrari battle tomorrow and Sunday...wouldn't surprise me at all tbh...

But lets first see how tomorrow goes,and especially if the weather will play a major part in things this weekend...



spy.
 
Yeah remember, practice is ONLY practice. Don't read too much into it.

People say this every week but it was pretty clear everyone was on a quali run at the end, ok some made mistakes, but I think you'll find Sutil has the pace for the top 6.
 
The rule has been in the MSA handbook since... ever. All drivers in all disciplines in any series in the world know - the white lines define the track and you don't go outside them. Do it often enough and you're black-flagged.

F1 doesn't get special exemption from this rule - it's in the FIA Sporting Regulations too.

I agree. They should give a warning before practice or whatever to everyone. And then they can punish whoever does it.
 
I really hope this isn't the shape of things to come. Given their attitude of late, Ferrari don't deserve to win. Hell, I think they barely deserve to be in the sport at all.
 
I really hope this isn't the shape of things to come. Given their attitude of late, Ferrari don't deserve to win. Hell, I think they barely deserve to be in the sport at all.

I must ask, what have they REALLY done to get you so butthurt? :lol:

Considering they are likely investing roughly a Billion dollars to compete in the business/sport of Formula 1, does is it really come as a surprise when they complain about blatant FIA screw ups that can dramatically affect the Championship, or when they put out team orders to maximize their results? :odd:

It's not like they're running their opponents off the road and having snipers in the grandstands shooting at the oppositions tires (I know, that's random :lol:)
 
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I'm going to agree with you. I wouldn't say they should not be in F1, but I don't think they are really all that deserving of winning. People may say I'm just saying that cause I'm a Red Bull fan, but I really think that.
 
I must ask, what have they REALLY done to get you so butthurt? :lol:
Mostly their arrogance. They seem to genuinely believe that they are Formula 1 and between the way they issued team orders in Germany and their constant unprovoked attacks on the new teams for not being Ferrari, the Ferrari name has stopped representing passion and performance and has come to symbolise a soulless automaton with a win-at-all-costs attitude. Just look at their response to Niki Lauda; they told the world he missed a good opportunity to "keep his mouth shut". Ferrari are desperate to claw back the position they have enjoyed for the past fifteen years and when things don't go their way, they've developed the disturbing habit of the Nelson Piquet "it's everyone's fault but ours" attitude. Ferrari need a good season or three at the back of the grid to remind them who they are and where they come from. They certainly don't deserve either world title. With any luck, the WMSC will strip them of their points from Hockenheim and ban them for a race or two.
 
Mostly their arrogance. They seem to genuinely believe that they are Formula 1 and between the way they issued team orders in Germany and their constant unprovoked attacks on the new teams for not being Ferrari, the Ferrari name has stopped representing passion and performance and has come to symbolise a soulless automaton with a win-at-all-costs attitude.

I agree with you to an extent regarding Luca D's (I personally don't like the blowhard much at all) comments earlier in the year regarding the new teams, and not giving them a proper chance to prove themselves. But to be fair he was partially proven right though, as we saw what could have happened to Webber/ Kovalainen at Valencia (could have potentially been a fatal crash for Webber or spectators) due to the disparity in performance. Also, the back markers played a large part in the outcome of the results at Canada, where traffic unnecessarily worked completely against Alonso's favor :lol:

Just look at their response to Niki Lauda; they told the world he missed a good opportunity to "keep his mouth shut".

Well Niki should shut his big ungrateful pie hole tbh :rolleyes: After all, he should be thankful for the opportunity Ferrari gave him in the past, not to mention his statement regarding Ferrari using team orders @ Hockenheim which were hypocritical to the 10th degree. But that's no suprise coming from loudmouth Lauda.

Ferrari are desperate to claw back the position they have enjoyed for the past fifteen years and when things don't go their way, they've developed the disturbing habit of the Nelson Piquet "it's everyone's fault but ours" attitude. Ferrari need a good season or three at the back of the grid to remind them who they are and where they come from. They certainly don't deserve either world title. With any luck, the WMSC will strip them of their points from Hockenheim and ban them for a race or two.

Bah, at this point the title is a joke anyway. The FIA decides to change regulations mid-season, allows teams to race with illegal parts (RBR) for a few races until they find out (which to an extent invalidates the Championship), on top of lame duck penalties, rules that can't be enforced (team orders), and decisions they make race after race after race. If anyone should be in the spotlight it should be the FIA, not Ferrari IMO :lol:
 
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Well Niki should shut his big ungrateful pie hole tbh :rolleyes: After all, he should be thankful for the opportunity Ferrari gave him in the past, not to mention his statement regarding Ferrari using team orders @ Hockenheim which were hypocritical to the 10th degree. But that's no suprise coming from loudmouth Lauda.
Are you getting at Lauda because he may have benefitted from team orders when he was racing? Were team orders legal in Lauda's day? Are they legal or illegal now?

Wait what? ...RBR caught with illegal parts?
No, he's just making it up.
 
I agree with you to an extent regarding Luca D's (I personally don't like the blowhard much at all) comments earlier in the year regarding the new teams, and not giving them a proper chance to prove themselves. But to be fair he was partially proven right though, as we saw what could have happened to Webber/ Kovalainen at Valencia (could have potentially been a fatal crash for Webber or spectators) due to the disparity in performance. Also, the back markers played a large part in the outcome of the results at Canada, where traffic unnecessarily worked completely against Alonso's favor :lol:
IIRC, Luca was upset because one of the Virgins got in Alonso's way in Canada and Button took the opportunity to strike. But back when there was talk of splitting Monaco qualifying (the first period of it, at least) in two, Keke Rosberg put it best: in the 1980s there were usually more than twenty-four cars out there and some of them were worse than six seconds a lap off the pace. If Luca is so concerned that Alonso can't deal with slow traffic, maybe Alonso shouldn't be racing at all.

And while the Valencia crash was Kovalainen's fault, it probably wouldn't have hurt Webber to consider that maybe Kovalainen wasn't aware the Red Bull was fast approaching. I remember thinking at the time that Webber had just assumed Kovalainen would move over for him.

Well Niki should shut his big ungrateful pie hole tbh :rolleyes: After all, he should be thankful for the opportunity Ferrari gave him in the past, not to mention his statement regarding Ferrari using team orders @ Hockenheim which were hypocritical to the 10th degree. But that's no suprise coming from loudmouth Lauda.
Regardless as to whether or not Lauda should have commented at all, it doesn't excuse Ferrari's abject rudeness and arrogance.

Bah, at this point the title is a joke anyway. The FIA decides to change regulations mid-season, allows teams to race with illegal parts (RBR) for a few races until they find out (which to an extent invalidates the Championship), on top of lame duck penalties, rules that can't be enforced (team orders), and decisions they make race after race after race. If anyone should be in the spotlight it should be the FIA, not Ferrari IMO :lol:
What do you mean changing the regulations mid-season? Are you talking about the increased load-bearing tests? Because Red Bull and Ferrari didn't start running those wings until Germany. They passed the tests there, but more evidence came to light of their flexible parts in Hungary, prompting the FIA to increase load tests. And with speculation suggesting that the secret to Ferrari's and Red Bull's success is a flexible floor, they increased their tests for Monza. The FIA aren't letting these teams get away with illegal parts - they can only act on the information they have at hand. And there is a due process that must be followed; no doubt the FIA have to notify the teams of changes to the scruitineering process ahead of time.

As for the "lame duck penalties", I assume you're talking about Hamilton in Valencia? Well, riddle me this: when was the last time someone illegally overtook the safety car? More, when was the last time someone illegally overtook the safety car on top of the line? Bear in mind that a driver cannot actually see the road immediately in front of him - he can see the tops of his tyres and that's about it. With regards to Schumacher at Monaco, the situation demanded judgement one way or the other, and the stewards had to decide. Schumacher in Hungary; well, they nearly disqualified him, but it was too near the end of the race. And as for Alonso at Silverstone, well, he could have avoided the whole situation by giving the place back to Kubica the moment he was told to.
 
Wait what? ...RBR caught with illegal parts?

I'm sorry, I believe that was from last years RB5 chassis. IIRC, FIA had allowed them to run with an illegal sized/shaped starter hole in the diffuser to maximize the diffuser efficiency.

Are you getting at Lauda because he may have benefited from team orders when he was racing?

Umm, yea buddy.

Were team orders legal in Lauda's day? Are they legal or illegal now?

What's that have to do with anything? You obviously didn't read Lauda's exact comments :rolleyes: You would have realized that his comments had nothing to do with the legality of team orders back when he was racing and was a beneficiary of such vs. now in time.
 
What's that have to do with anything? You obviously didn't read Lauda's exact comments :rolleyes: You would have realized that his comments had nothing to do with the legality of team orders back when he was racing and was a beneficiary of such vs. now in time.

Niki Lauda
"What they (Ferrari) did in Hockenheim was against all rules. Either the rules are changed or everybody observes them."

Explain how it's "hypocritical to the 10th degree" for Lauda to point out that Ferrari broke the rules.
 
That's not what I'm getting at. I'm pointing out the fact that he thinks what Ferrari did is morally so wrong for the sport and its followers, yet he was guilty of that very same thing (team orders) when he drove for Ferrari back in his heyday. Of course he didn't have a problem with it then :rolleyes:
 
Would you care to point to specific races where Lauda benefitted from team orders, then?
And also where Lauda said Ferrari were morally wrong?

Former Ferrari driver Niki Lauda believes the Italian team will be heavily punished by the FIA’s World Motor Sport Council (WMSC) next month for their use of team orders at the recent German Grand Prix.

Ferrari received a $100,000 fine from race stewards after Felipe Massa moved aside to hand team mate Fernando Alonso victory, but the case was also referred on to the WMSC which will meet to consider the matter on September 8, just two days before the start of Ferrari's home Grand Prix.

“What they did in Hockenheim was against all rules,” Lauda told Formula1.com. “Either the rules are changed or everybody observes them. What they’ve done is wrong and they got an immediate punishment - and they will get a pasting from the World Council, that is for sure.”

While acknowledging that opinions differ on the team orders debate, three-time world champion Lauda said that in his view Ferrari’s actions were an insult to the intelligence of Formula One fans.

“You have two models of how to race in Formula One as a team. If you approach it politically then you are in the Ferrari mould. Or you try to give both your drivers equal opportunities and the fans an exciting sport, as Red Bull are doing in letting their drivers compete with each other.

“That is what makes this sport a crowd puller because they see the best guys in the best cars racing each other with a ‘may the best man win’ philosophy - and not mocking the fans with a collusive result.”

The Hockenheim stewards decided Ferrari had breached Article 39.1 of the 2010 Sporting Regulations, which bans team orders that interfere with a race result, and Article 151 c) of the International Sporting Code, by bringing the sport into disrepute.
 
I'm pointing out the fact that he thinks

No. You quite clearly told daan he hadn't "read Lauda's exact comments". Nowhere in "Lauda's exact comments" are the words "morally wrong". daan has elaborated on this in the immediate prior post. We don't know what Lauda thinks beyond what he said.

Lauda said that what Ferrari did was against the rules and they were punished for it - and he opined that the WMSC will take further action. The reality is that what Ferrari did was against the rules and they were punished for it - and the WMSC may take further action.


Remember this exchange a few posts back?


daan
Were team orders legal in Lauda's day? Are they legal or illegal now?

timeattack
What's that have to do with anything? You obviously didn't read Lauda's exact comments :rolleyes: You would have realized that his comments had nothing to do with the legality of team orders back when he was racing and was a beneficiary of such vs. now in time.

Changed your mind a bit quick:

yet he was guilty of that very same thing (team orders) when he drove for Ferrari back in his heyday. Of course he didn't have a problem with it then :rolleyes:

Lauda may have benefitted from team orders in the past (though I'm not aware of it). They weren't against the rules then, so no-one would have had a problem with it. Today, team orders are against the rules and, it seems, everyone but Ferrari has a problem with it. Lauda pointed out that Ferrari broke the rules, were punished and may be further punished. Why is this "hypocritical to the 10th degree" when he passed no opinion on it?
 
Well, it looks like Webber is fastest in practice. :D With Hamilton and Vettel right behind him. And Ferrari were somewhat off pace, to my surprise.
 

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