2011 Clubman 300k On-line Endurance Event. Sign-ups Open!
- Thread starter W3H5
- 61 comments
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- 29,911
- Thailand
I'll start putting together a proper page soon so that people can sign up and all the race details are out in the open. Of course a track must be settled on first. I'm liking the Monza idea but I fear a major pile up at the first corner with proper supervision. 
- 79
- Landbergaren
About the qualification idea for less spin outs.
Me beating people with way better best laps is a normal race for me... Because they spin out and I dont
. Im less aggressive in my style
Me beating people with way better best laps is a normal race for me... Because they spin out and I dont
. Im less aggressive in my style
- 79
- Landbergaren
Ah well. Its difficult to test peoples comitment-ability I guess.
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Well you've got the real fundamental frame-work for a good new series. The problem is that many people have tried it in the past and, for whatever reason, it always fell off the way-side [failed].
I have a few ideas you can throw around to really distinguish the series from all of the other previous attempts at an endurance championship.
First of all, throw out any ideas of using FIA GT spec cars. There's just too much of it.
I suggest you go the fictional route with this in terms of the series structure and vehicle spec.
In order to be a true endurance event the series structure should put an emphasis on conservation, consistency and, more importantly, strategy.
How do you present these attributes in the series you ask?
Give bonus points for doing the least amount of pit stops and successfully finishing a race, highlight effective strategies in detailed post-race reports. Things like that.
But the big question is the car(s) you're going to feature.
The GT-R's out of the question. While a great car (one of my favorites), not many people will want to join a series featuring AWD cars.
I'd suggest GT cars for a true endurance racing event to be most effectively experienced within the confines of GT5. I'm personally against racing prototypes in GT as I think GT5 can't effectively model the extreme dynamics of that class of car.
Now the problem lies in, which car? Let me tell you something: it doesn't have to be one car. I think this particular idea could be well suited for a two-make format. That way it's much easier and funner to pick two cars that have different driving characteristics and balance them perfectly against one another. Also, they should all be premium for universal easy-access. I'm totally against using a multi-class structure for any series that has races go over an hour and a half. It just gets ridiculous with the head start needed to be given to the slower class on start.
A few random pair-up ideas I had:
Ford GT Spec II against the Z06 Corvette RM
citroen GT Race car against the Z06 Corvette RM
Ford GT Spec II against the Citroen GT Race car
(or all three together possibly?)
Ferrari 458 against the Z06 C6 (maxed out aero on both)
Lotus 111R vs. MP4-12C
430 Scuderia against the McLaren F1 (maxed out aero on both, big upgrades for the )
Tracks should be easy to choose, all the real world tracks except Indy, Monaco, Fuchi, Tsukuba, or Top Gear. Weather and a full day/night time cycle should definitely be utilized. I'd venture to recommend limited damage. There should be a rolling formation start. Full penalty system implementation.
Qualifying:
it can either be done on the days leading up to the race by using sole qualifiers which will make it easier to get started on race day and make people have to qualify for their spot each week. Or you can make it club format, take only 16 to 20 sign ups and just go, but I don't like that idea because the competition won't be as close as well as the whole thing of dealings with sign-ups in the first place.
That's all I can give right now. Feel free to take my ideas into mind 👍
I have a few ideas you can throw around to really distinguish the series from all of the other previous attempts at an endurance championship.
First of all, throw out any ideas of using FIA GT spec cars. There's just too much of it.
I suggest you go the fictional route with this in terms of the series structure and vehicle spec.
In order to be a true endurance event the series structure should put an emphasis on conservation, consistency and, more importantly, strategy.
How do you present these attributes in the series you ask?
Give bonus points for doing the least amount of pit stops and successfully finishing a race, highlight effective strategies in detailed post-race reports. Things like that.
But the big question is the car(s) you're going to feature.
The GT-R's out of the question. While a great car (one of my favorites), not many people will want to join a series featuring AWD cars.
I'd suggest GT cars for a true endurance racing event to be most effectively experienced within the confines of GT5. I'm personally against racing prototypes in GT as I think GT5 can't effectively model the extreme dynamics of that class of car.
Now the problem lies in, which car? Let me tell you something: it doesn't have to be one car. I think this particular idea could be well suited for a two-make format. That way it's much easier and funner to pick two cars that have different driving characteristics and balance them perfectly against one another. Also, they should all be premium for universal easy-access. I'm totally against using a multi-class structure for any series that has races go over an hour and a half. It just gets ridiculous with the head start needed to be given to the slower class on start.
A few random pair-up ideas I had:
Ford GT Spec II against the Z06 Corvette RM
citroen GT Race car against the Z06 Corvette RM
Ford GT Spec II against the Citroen GT Race car
(or all three together possibly?)
Ferrari 458 against the Z06 C6 (maxed out aero on both)
Lotus 111R vs. MP4-12C
430 Scuderia against the McLaren F1 (maxed out aero on both, big upgrades for the )
Tracks should be easy to choose, all the real world tracks except Indy, Monaco, Fuchi, Tsukuba, or Top Gear. Weather and a full day/night time cycle should definitely be utilized. I'd venture to recommend limited damage. There should be a rolling formation start. Full penalty system implementation.
Qualifying:
it can either be done on the days leading up to the race by using sole qualifiers which will make it easier to get started on race day and make people have to qualify for their spot each week. Or you can make it club format, take only 16 to 20 sign ups and just go, but I don't like that idea because the competition won't be as close as well as the whole thing of dealings with sign-ups in the first place.
That's all I can give right now. Feel free to take my ideas into mind 👍
- 29,911
- Thailand
I appreciate your imput Wardez. There are a few thing that I should have made clearer.
This isn't going to be a series. So far I'm just pitching it as a one off endurance race.
I'm not thinking alone the lines of LMPs or anything like that, as you said, they aren't the best choice of car.
Like your ideas here. Mixing up a few cars that are equal but in different ways would add some fun and strategy to the mix.
Because it's a one off race the track is quite important. It has to be fun yet challenging, long enough not to be repetitive but short enough to make it to the pits without losing too much time if there's a problem.
I'd like to feature the weather system but feel that if it rained on the day of the race it would really bring the whole event down.
Signing up drivers is still something I need to look into to work out the best way to do it. Great ideas Wardez. 👍
This isn't going to be a series. So far I'm just pitching it as a one off endurance race.
I'm not thinking alone the lines of LMPs or anything like that, as you said, they aren't the best choice of car.
Like your ideas here. Mixing up a few cars that are equal but in different ways would add some fun and strategy to the mix.
Because it's a one off race the track is quite important. It has to be fun yet challenging, long enough not to be repetitive but short enough to make it to the pits without losing too much time if there's a problem.
I'd like to feature the weather system but feel that if it rained on the day of the race it would really bring the whole event down.
Signing up drivers is still something I need to look into to work out the best way to do it. Great ideas Wardez. 👍
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Oh if it's gonna be a one off event then you should definitely hold qualifiers for entrance. If there's enough interest you can feature two races in two divisions ranked by qualifying performance.
Based on what you said about your track, you really only have four good choices:
Suzuka, Nurb. GP/F, Grand Valley Speedway, and Daytona road course. All staples of the serious online GT5 series, all 3 to 4 miles long. Good distance, not too long, not too short, always interesting.
Personally, I'd love running any one of those tracks in a well organized 3 hour event 👍
Based on what you said about your track, you really only have four good choices:
Suzuka, Nurb. GP/F, Grand Valley Speedway, and Daytona road course. All staples of the serious online GT5 series, all 3 to 4 miles long. Good distance, not too long, not too short, always interesting.
Personally, I'd love running any one of those tracks in a well organized 3 hour event 👍
- 29,911
- Thailand
I had the same thoughts. Suzuki would be epic and I've done some testing there but is run for the 1000k. GP/F track isn't too bad. GV is my personal favourite but is not a real world track so might put people off, although I think GV would be awesome for it. Fuji could work, would need some testing though and can be a bit boring for too long on track.
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Meh, I actually think Tilke-Fuji is the most atrocious thing to ever be featured in GT, hate that track with an absolutely seething passion. DUBAR - Dulled up beyond all recognition.
Track's too wide, elevation changes are like it was built over an old fair ground, too much run off, the F chicane's the only decent corner beside the first turn... at least in my book. Don't even get me started on the last sector.
Anyway. Don't be afraid about using Grand Valley, it's one of the more universally liked original tracks.
I think it should come down to between Suzuka or GVS. Then you can possibly hold a vote.
Track's too wide, elevation changes are like it was built over an old fair ground, too much run off, the F chicane's the only decent corner beside the first turn... at least in my book. Don't even get me started on the last sector.
Anyway. Don't be afraid about using Grand Valley, it's one of the more universally liked original tracks.
I think it should come down to between Suzuka or GVS. Then you can possibly hold a vote.
- 29,911
- Thailand
Last night I was weighing up the differences between a one-make race and a multi make one.
Pros for one make
Oh, the troubles of indecision!
On a lighter note it seems that Suzuka is popular among the few people that actually voted. It was the place where I was driving when I came up with the idea.
Pros for one make
- All cars are relatively equal
- The same power tuning/ detuning can be applied to all cars
- Easy to regulate
- Same weight
- Little variation
- Lack of participants
- unoriginal
Oh, the troubles of indecision!
On a lighter note it seems that Suzuka is popular among the few people that actually voted. It was the place where I was driving when I came up with the idea.
- 2,624
- Sardinia, Italy
- papero1974
I want to join! China's evenings are europe's mornings, which is the best for me. Give me some to read all the thread 
@Wardez: love your avatar.
EDIT:
Premium cars: there is a serious lack of online races in the [europe morning/oceanic evenings] hours. I never did one, so for me it's not important which cars will run here. My preference go for premium cars, as they are buyable in NCD. Engine break in can be done with multiple practice sessions at the track to find an enjoyable setup. I'd enjoy even a Fiat 500 1.2 series, so just find a nice one 👍
One make: better for balancing, my best choice. For multiple cars in, please consider the real balance of performance (BOP) thing. It's a broken rule irl, but can be implemented very well in GT5:
1) we need multiple practice sessions
2) every driver has to try the most cars he can
3) admin have to choose a target lap time, doable with the slower car
4) all car will have to be ballasted / engine limited until no one goes under the target lap time
5) every driver will do their best with opponent cars to add more ballast to other cars.
6) opponents will do the same with your car, so the balance can be perfect
7) tire wear should be added to BOP, optionally
8) PP system sucks, can't be serious using PP to balance cars. There are 350PP cars faster than 430PP ones..... A 23% error is out of any discussion.
Track: I voted for Suzuka, but imho both tracks lack in overtaking opportunities.
Event format: 15-16 drivers closed competition? Which selection criteria? Qualifying races? A contest like the Indy 500 q days? Laptimes? First joining in?
@Wardez: love your avatar.
EDIT:
Premium cars: there is a serious lack of online races in the [europe morning/oceanic evenings] hours. I never did one, so for me it's not important which cars will run here. My preference go for premium cars, as they are buyable in NCD. Engine break in can be done with multiple practice sessions at the track to find an enjoyable setup. I'd enjoy even a Fiat 500 1.2 series, so just find a nice one 👍
One make: better for balancing, my best choice. For multiple cars in, please consider the real balance of performance (BOP) thing. It's a broken rule irl, but can be implemented very well in GT5:
1) we need multiple practice sessions
2) every driver has to try the most cars he can
3) admin have to choose a target lap time, doable with the slower car
4) all car will have to be ballasted / engine limited until no one goes under the target lap time
5) every driver will do their best with opponent cars to add more ballast to other cars.
6) opponents will do the same with your car, so the balance can be perfect
7) tire wear should be added to BOP, optionally
8) PP system sucks, can't be serious using PP to balance cars. There are 350PP cars faster than 430PP ones..... A 23% error is out of any discussion.
Track: I voted for Suzuka, but imho both tracks lack in overtaking opportunities.
Event format: 15-16 drivers closed competition? Which selection criteria? Qualifying races? A contest like the Indy 500 q days? Laptimes? First joining in?
Last edited:
- 14
- djmars2008
I wanna so this too..!
- 29,911
- Thailand
I want to join! China's evenings are europe's mornings, which is the best for me. Give me some to read all the thread
@Wardez: love your avatar.
EDIT:
Premium cars: there is a serious lack of online races in the [europe morning/oceanic evenings] hours. I never did one, so for me it's not important which cars will run here. My preference go for premium cars, as they are buyable in NCD. Engine break in can be done with multiple practice sessions at the track to find an enjoyable setup. I'd enjoy even a Fiat 500 1.2 series, so just find a nice one 👍
One make: better for balancing, my best choice. For multiple cars in, please consider the real balance of performance (BOP) thing. It's a broken rule irl, but can be implemented very well in GT5:
1) we need multiple practice sessions
2) every driver has to try the most cars he can
3) admin have to choose a target lap time, doable with the slower car
4) all car will have to be ballasted / engine limited until no one goes under the target lap time
5) every driver will do their best with opponent cars to add more ballast to other cars.
6) opponents will do the same with your car, so the balance can be perfect
7) tire wear should be added to BOP, optionally
8) PP system sucks, can't be serious using PP to balance cars. There are 350PP cars faster than 430PP ones..... A 23% error is out of any discussion.
Track: I voted for Suzuka, but imho both tracks lack in overtaking opportunities.
Event format: 15-16 drivers closed competition? Which selection criteria? Qualifying races? A contest like the Indy 500 q days? Laptimes? First joining in?
Duck, you are so close to what I'm trying to achieve. I'm in no fit state to comment right now it being early hours of the morning and me too far drunk to be able to respond properly but I really feel that employing some of what you're suggesting has been my intentions all alone 👍
I'll be back later when I'm more sober for further discussion.
- 252
- Taunto_Svt
I'm with Mitch zo6 on this. I'm totally in. I was thinking. If you can't find a good class to run all cars in. Why Not split the grid up but run them at the same time. For example. Half super Gt and other half DTM. Just giving an example. Not saying that's what I want cause personally, super Gt is over rated. But deff count me in
Subscribed.
Subscribed.
- 252
- Taunto_Svt
Why not la-sarthe for the endurance race? Good over taking. Fun track and great for the endurance. With weather and time change
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
Looks goo to me. I'm still in for this. But, in Tyre Restrictions, what kind of Sports tyres?
- 29,911
- Thailand
Any tyre from the sports tyre selection that is available. SH, SM or SS. I'm guessing most will go with SS because of the extra grip.
Downhill Dino
Premium
- 11,753
- Maryland
- DownhillDinosaur
I might jump in Sport Mediums though.
Why one car though? Just wondering. Maybe The latest models of the Civic and Integra too? Just putting through some ideas.
Why one car though? Just wondering. Maybe The latest models of the Civic and Integra too? Just putting through some ideas.
- 29,911
- Thailand
I was testing out a few cars today and found the '97 Civic to be the most enjoyable on sports tyres. I think the fact that it's so easy to drive yet a veteran GT player can still have fun with it is a plus.
I might have forgot to mention in the OP that no aids are to be used. TCS 0, ABS 0 and preferably drivers who use MT, but I can't be too fussy about the MT.
I might have forgot to mention in the OP that no aids are to be used. TCS 0, ABS 0 and preferably drivers who use MT, but I can't be too fussy about the MT.
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