2012 Bahrain Grand Prix
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
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- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Because ground effects are banned, and have been banned for a long time due to safety concerns. The cars were getting too fast with the ground effects and would be quite dangerous when the car became upset over bumps.
Indycar is not quite a fair comparison because the cars are no where near developed to the same level. Dallara has dominated the series with its chassis and barely changed it at all till this years change in regulations. So I wouldn't agree that they are "heavily modified" in any sense of those words - Dallara don't need to spend money developing the cars to the nth degree because:
1. The teams don't even want to pay the extra $25,000 for power steering, let alone aerodynamic updates!
2. There is no chassis competition. Dallara don't need to improve the car's aero because all the cars are the same!
If I understand correctly, Indycar ground effects are not where most of the downforce is/was generated as they still use large wings to create most of the downforce. And its debatable whether the racing was any closer - from the races I have seen on road courses Indycar seems pretty similar to F1 in that occasionally it can be good for overtaking but most of the time its pretty difficult.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
Those deaths happened on ovals though.
- 44,185
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
F1 still has this "we are technologically superior" ego to them though...
Take A1GP with the power boost button, explain it to someon in the street.
"You have a button that gives you a power boost for x seconds, which can be used up to 8 times in a race".
F1 with KERS:
"You have button you can use for up to x seconds per lap, which is re charged every lap via lost energy from the cars braking systems".
And DRS:
"You can open the rear wing but only when timing and elctronics tell you that you are within x seconds of the car in front on a set part of the track,."
Whats easier to understand?
Take A1GP with the power boost button, explain it to someon in the street.
"You have a button that gives you a power boost for x seconds, which can be used up to 8 times in a race".
F1 with KERS:
"You have button you can use for up to x seconds per lap, which is re charged every lap via lost energy from the cars braking systems".
And DRS:
"You can open the rear wing but only when timing and elctronics tell you that you are within x seconds of the car in front on a set part of the track,."
Whats easier to understand?
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
^I would hate for F1 to become simple and lose the technology side just to appeal to Joe Public. I think people sometimes make too big a deal of this kind of stuff - sure people find it hard to understand KERS...the same people find it hard to understand the concept of tyre temperature...we really don't gain anything by getting rid of technology in this respect.
Most people don't even care to understand how an engine even works. These people are never going to be convinced to sit down and watch F1, so why bother trying to pander to them? Anyone that is interested in F1 or motorsport can usually grasp the concepts of how KERS can work and the regulations for it. It isn't that complicated. We're not talking Warhammer 40,000 rules here.
I think some areas of F1 could be made simpler for everyone to follow (like the points system or penalties) but other areas need to be complicated because that is half the interest! Pre-season testing would be so boring if there weren't a million little aerodynamic pieces to analyse and discuss!
Most people don't even care to understand how an engine even works. These people are never going to be convinced to sit down and watch F1, so why bother trying to pander to them? Anyone that is interested in F1 or motorsport can usually grasp the concepts of how KERS can work and the regulations for it. It isn't that complicated. We're not talking Warhammer 40,000 rules here.
I think some areas of F1 could be made simpler for everyone to follow (like the points system or penalties) but other areas need to be complicated because that is half the interest! Pre-season testing would be so boring if there weren't a million little aerodynamic pieces to analyse and discuss!
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MagpieRacer
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- Seagull_Racer
Anyone remember this concept to try to kill turbulent air?
- 1,326
- Orange County C
- GTP_Im_Sorry
I think fully active aero would not be allowed due to the same safety concerns that caused ground effects to be banned. Imagine what could happen if the aero controls failed at a crucial point, like in a high-G, high-speed corner.
Be careful what you wish for...
- 2,073
- Newcastle, NSW, Australia
- mrvajj
I used to be against the concept of DRS, until it became clear that, in a lot of cases, it is a tool for the driver of the slightly faster car to use to pass the car that might've otherwise held him up. I mean, if the cars battling for position are relatively equal, then what's to stop the driver who's just been overtaken hanging onto the back of the other driver, and re-passing him on the next lap? The only issue I've got with it is that it can't be used everywhere on the track. It should be made "one use per lap" rather than in a set DRS "zone" on one section of track.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
That's part of racing. Why not just show blue flags if the car behind pulls a faster lap?
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- mrvajj
Good point. And F1 has had it's fair share of ham-fisted overtakers over the years.
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- IceManPJN
- IceMan PJN
They absolutely definitely do kill overtaking. If we look at something from the opposite end of the spectrum, like NASCAR, where downforce is almost nonexistent, you following behind me benefits you in that it reduces air resistance on your car, making you faster, but without any negative consequences since your car doesn't really rely on downforce for track performance. Now, if we swap our cars and instead run F1 cars, 60% of your performance comes from the chassis and its aerodynamics, so while drafting me may reduce drag, you lose a lot more performance because the dirty air cripples your wings' effectiveness. So, while in NASCAR you're benefited by drafting behind me, in F1 you're penalized by doing so.
DRS doesn't just hand out free overtakes to drivers anyway. Usually drivers close enough to use DRS and doing so still run lap after lap without actually overtaking anyone. Last year, I believe in Spain although I can't say for certain, Button was trapped behind somebody lap after lap after lap, on every lap employing DRS along a long straight but always running out of road just shy of being able to complete the overtaking maneuver. Without DRS, he'd never even have been able to fantasize about overtaking there, and even with DRS was unable to pull it off for many laps. DRS only makes overtaking somewhat more possible, as opposed to handing out free passes.
That would then be awarding free overtakes. Drivers are supposed to work for those, and even with DRS they still have to work for them, as I've pointed out.
- 7,517
- Connecticut
- Cowboys965
tribolik
Both series are capable of having a car be launched by rear to front wheel contact.
F1 has a road course at slower speeds, Indy has ovals, capable of much higher speeds.
Last year's IndyCars hit 241 MPH on a high speed oval, F1 aren't traveling at that fast of a speed, sure they hit 210+, but they're not going 4-Wide wheel to wheel on a banked high speed oval, with a fleet of other cars surrounding them.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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- holyc0w1
- holyc0w
It varies on the circumstances. Depending on the race it has went from basically useless to handing out free passes.
- 3,195
- tribolik
Correct me if Im wrong but the winner of the last GP didnt use any DRS during the race...
And the winner of the last championship hardly used any DRS at all (during races)
The should ban the rear wings all together... just kidding
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
- 29,957
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
Considering the speeds an F1 car can do, I imagine that the horrific accidents that would follow wouldn't be pretty.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Okay, it's at this point that the conversation should start moving back towards Bahrain since we are wildly off-topic.
FP1 is just 90 minutes or so away.
FP1 is just 90 minutes or so away.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
Where can we discuss our wild ideas about how F1 should be run? I thought such topics could be put into the current race thread, due to the lack of a Catch-all F1 thread.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
No, but it could go into the car design thread.
They have a set area for safety reasons, it could be very dangerous otherwise.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
Why the heck did that RBR have the inter wets on?
- 1,613
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- gorsad
- gorsadamad
Really? Maybe it's to measure aero, I remember Force India doing that during Pre-season testing.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Rumours in the paddock suggest that Force India will skip FP2. After the petrol bomb incident, it seems they are uncomfortable travelling back to Manama in the dark. Although the second session ends at 3:30pm local time, they would still need to pack up and drive 40km back to the capital, which means they would be travelling across the country at evening prayer time on a Friday evening - the time of day that has seen some of the most intense "days of rage" across Arab Spring.
- 2,978
- England
- WilliamsJIM_Adam
Sorry if it's already been covered, but why are they using the medium and soft compounds if tyre temperature and graining is such a problem (the footage of Massa's right front tyre graining from FP1 was pretty crazy)? Surely hard and medium would be better?
And I guess you didn't see it before, but Rosberg's points in the OP should be 25 rather than 26. 👍
And I guess you didn't see it before, but Rosberg's points in the OP should be 25 rather than 26. 👍
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