2014 NASCAR Thread
- Thread starter Jahgee
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- GTP_Johnny1996
My take on Newman bumping Larson: I probably would've done the same if I was in the same position. 
My take on Newman winning the championship: Not sure actually. However, I can't help but wonder where NASCAR will go with the Chase in the future if he does win it.
My take on Newman winning the championship: Not sure actually. However, I can't help but wonder where NASCAR will go with the Chase in the future if he does win it.
- 5,629
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- Droptop2001gt
Did anyone else complain when the San Francisco Giants beat the Kansas City Royals in the World Series this year? Both teams were wild card entries, since neither team even won their division. The LA Dodgers and Detroit Tigers were the winners in those divisions.
Let's go full circle with this.
The Chase exists mostly because Ryan Newman "lost" the 2003 Championship to Matt Kenseth. Newman had the most wins that season (8), while Kenseth had "only" 1 race win.
Fast Forward: Kenseth won 7 races last season, the most in the Cup series, but also didn't win the Cup. Jimmie Johnson won it.
The Chase first showed up in 2004, the season after Kenseth's "boring Championship year." Ten years later, Newman might become the first-ever series champion to not win a single race in the entire season.
So, Kenseth got the 2013 Cup title he should have won back in 2003, when he didn't really "earn" it. That breaks even.
Newman can now "steal" the 2014 Cup title to replace the 2003 Cup title he should have won back then. That breaks even.
So that just leaves the 2013 Championship that Johnson won when Kenseth "should have" won, and a need to announce a "legitimate" winner of the 2014 Cup title. I'm sure the resident Gordon fans here will want to award it to Jeff, so that Gordon and Johnson would both have five titles each.
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- 3,770
- Manning, SC
Newman shouldn't have "won back then", he deservedly finished behind because he couldn't keep consistent results (the point of championship racing, which was the norm at the time). Him winning title this year wouldn't fix anything.
Kenseth should have 2 titles (putting JJ at 5, not so close yet to "best-of-all-time" conversation).
Gordon would have his virtual 5th if he finishes 29th or better at Homestead (may have gotten screwed out of another one already, thanks to the Chase, not 100% on that).
Logano winning it all would be best. Yes he sits behind Gordon in old system, but who forgot the Morgan Shepherd episode at first Loudon race? the incident not happening could more than make up for Joey's 25 point deficit. Logano also had 2 other DNF's while Gordon actually had none, and 5 wins to Jeff's 4.
Harvick would be a deserved Champion, too, especially if he ends the season with 2 wins, "Closer" style. It might be now or never for him (he turns 40 next year) I prefer Joey but I'll root for KH4 for this reason (Logano has time).
Newman winning (without a W at Homestead) means NASCAR needs a need system, in 2015.
I like Hamlin but a chance at the title when you're barely one of the top 10 cars is a joke.
How about we all brainstorm on a better, ultimate formula? have you looked at my new Chase system suggestions on previous page? I think it's a good base.
Jubby
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- jubbyboi617
Why? A set of rules were applied and drivers raced to that. If it was 100% point based, it's a safe bet they'd drive differently. If it was all points, BK wouldn't have pushed so hard in Texas, Newman wouldn't have divebombed Larson Sunday, and Almirola's win at Daytona was meaningless in the grand scheme.
I'm getting tired of people complaining that "things would be different if..." and linking it to older point/chase formats. The older formats are irrelevant as the drivers and teams didn't race in it. Think about it... if you were racing at the second race of the year and had to take a big risk to win, would you try hard but settle for second keeping points in mind or push the limit (and take the risk) to win? Well, it matters on the circumstance. If points are more important, then you'll race that way. If wins are, you'll be more likely to take that risk.
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- GTP_Royalton
Some of you guys are just so old fashioned
Consistency should win championships because its auto racing? Asking drivers to raise their game and perform at a high level in an elimination style tournament is crap because this is auto racing and consistency is all that should matter? Thats so old fashioned.
Let me tell you this right now. Harvick being clutch and going out there and winning Phoenix to advance or Keselowski winning Talladega to advance is far more interesting and tells me far more about who should be champion then if we were under the really old system which would probably feature Harvick taking it easy and being 'happy with a top 5' for the last few races to hold on to a points lead.
Every sport in the world besides racing has 'upsets' where a 'Ryan Newman' CAN and HAS won. But because an underdog like Ryan Newman can win its a crap system? The NASCAR Championship is now more about who can raise their game and be clutch in an elimination style tournament rather then who simply had the fastest car way back in March seven months ago that allowed them to build a huge points lead.
And btw NASCAR cant lose Sunday. If Harvick or Newman win they get what they want. Harvick winning says the fastest car throughout the season can be champ, Newman winning says an underdog who hung around was given a chance. NASCAR wins either way.
Consistency should win championships because its auto racing? Asking drivers to raise their game and perform at a high level in an elimination style tournament is crap because this is auto racing and consistency is all that should matter? Thats so old fashioned.
Let me tell you this right now. Harvick being clutch and going out there and winning Phoenix to advance or Keselowski winning Talladega to advance is far more interesting and tells me far more about who should be champion then if we were under the really old system which would probably feature Harvick taking it easy and being 'happy with a top 5' for the last few races to hold on to a points lead.
Every sport in the world besides racing has 'upsets' where a 'Ryan Newman' CAN and HAS won. But because an underdog like Ryan Newman can win its a crap system? The NASCAR Championship is now more about who can raise their game and be clutch in an elimination style tournament rather then who simply had the fastest car way back in March seven months ago that allowed them to build a huge points lead.
And btw NASCAR cant lose Sunday. If Harvick or Newman win they get what they want. Harvick winning says the fastest car throughout the season can be champ, Newman winning says an underdog who hung around was given a chance. NASCAR wins either way.
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- 6,272
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
Even as a Jr. fan I'll say that it wouldn't catch the flak it has now if two of the drivers fighting for the cup at Homestead were Jr. and Jeff Gordon. That's why half the people hate it as much as they do. But there is no point in complaining since this is the system in place and this will decide the championship.
That's your opinion, to each his own, it's often pointless arguing about. We could, however, agree on other points?
we realize that, and I posit this playoff system needs improvements to make it fairer, all the while keeping it interesting until the end. You're not old fashioned, are you?
every other sport has better systems:
-in NFL you get Home field advantage and a bye week, for example.
-in soccer, they use Championship systems, with playoffs only when necessary (when it'd be too long or difficult to have a full championship, like in World Cup, which wouldn't last 1 month if so, it'd last 6... or international leagues).
-wild card teams have to win extra game(s), and they'll always have home field disadvantage.
Upsets and "Cinderellas" work and are good stories BECAUSE of this!
Newman and his season best 3rd place should have only been allowed to race for the title if he managed to overcome all the odds stacked against him (because of his below-Top-level regular season racing).
The odds he had? a mere 9 point differential with Gordon at the start of the Chase, despite Gordon scoring a whopping 132 more points (914 vs 782, that's a 5.1 place average differential, btw) in 26 previous races.
3 races later, forget about that 132 or 9 point difference, they're effing... tied
Where's "homefield (dis)advantage" or that "bye week(s)" for performing better/worse in regular season?
Please read my previous 2 posts... NASCAR/we can come up with a better, fairer system. If Newman ends up in the Finale with that system (previous page), then he's as deserving as Harvick/Logano/Kez/Gordon/Dale Jr, and only then.
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- 547
- iTribulationz
- iResurrectionz
Referring to last year?
Wins:
Johnson: 6
Kenseth: 7
Top 10's:
Johnson: 24
Kenseth: 20
Top 5's:
Johnson: 16
Kenseth: 12
Average finish:
Johnson: 10.7
Kenseth: 12.1
Laps led:
Johnson: 1,985
Kenseth: 1,783
Number of races leading the points:
Johnson: 27/36
Kenseth: 6/36
The only category Kenseth is superior is wins, and only by a single victory. Johnson leads by fairly healthy margins in all of the rest of them.
How does Kenseth deserve last year's title over Johnson?
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- Droptop2001gt
"It's all about WINNING races!"
-NASCAR PR
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- Ventura, California
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- I_Fail_At_FPS
The only thing that would be funnier than Newman winning the championship would be Newman winning the championship by finishing 40th.
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- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
NASCAR would be in agony over that but I guess they would love it.
- 5,629
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- Droptop2001gt
"well... uhh... He was the er, first to... finish the 12th lap, so, um... HE WINS!"
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- I_Fail_At_FPS
And there will be no championship celebrations because the season was decided over at lap 20.
- 5,629
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- Droptop2001gt
Not true. They would be running side-by-side coverage of the garage area as crews from every team tried to repair their cars.
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- cnd01
Jubby
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- jubbyboi617
What would you rather have in the next race for both series (choose one in terms of excitement):
- 4 drivers going all out, potentially wrecking each other at the end of 400 miles. It could be for 1st place or 25th where we have 2, 3, or 4 drivers beating and banging all the way to the finish line in the last dozen laps. It is very unlikely that all drivers will crash out due to the style of vehicle. There is no idea where these guys will finish and all that matters is that one finishes in front of another- chaos and anarchy.
- 2 drivers playing cat and mouse- albeit going all out. It will probably be for 1st place (which is the only likely way one can win) as they will be the only 2 vehicles at the front over 40 seconds in the lead after 90 minutes of racing. It is very likely that if both drivers wreck each other, they crash out (a la Senna v Prost in 1990). Where these guys have to finish is finite and predetermined, based on this season's performance and where they have to finish to clinch- very 'type- a'.
Now tell me that NASCAR got it wrong given the two scenarios.
- 4 drivers going all out, potentially wrecking each other at the end of 400 miles. It could be for 1st place or 25th where we have 2, 3, or 4 drivers beating and banging all the way to the finish line in the last dozen laps. It is very unlikely that all drivers will crash out due to the style of vehicle. There is no idea where these guys will finish and all that matters is that one finishes in front of another- chaos and anarchy.
- 2 drivers playing cat and mouse- albeit going all out. It will probably be for 1st place (which is the only likely way one can win) as they will be the only 2 vehicles at the front over 40 seconds in the lead after 90 minutes of racing. It is very likely that if both drivers wreck each other, they crash out (a la Senna v Prost in 1990). Where these guys have to finish is finite and predetermined, based on this season's performance and where they have to finish to clinch- very 'type- a'.
Now tell me that NASCAR got it wrong given the two scenarios.
referring to "my" system, which puts a (real) emphasis on wins, and the results of this race...
Have you read my recent posts (see below) to see the whole context or you're just trying to unsuccesfully "burn" me (like your now-gone friend GTPorsche) ?
If there was no Chase:
-2004: Jeff Gordon would have his 5th career title and the 6th title for car owner Rick Hendrick.
-2005: Tony Stewart, first driver in NASCAR history to win both old points format and Chase system, would win either way.
-2006: Jimmie Johnson would win the title either way in 2006.
-2007: Jeff Gordon would have won his 6th career title – the 8th title for Hendrick and three of the last four. Wins by over 350 points.
-2008: Carl Edwards would have dethroned Johnson by 16 points for first title.
-2009: Jimmie Johnson would get second title beating Gordon by 66 points. 4 of the last 6 for Hendrick.
-2010: Kevin Harvick dominated the entire season beating Johnson by over 200 points.
-2011: With the new 2011 season's points format, Carl Edwards takes 2nd title in four seasons after clinching title at Phoenix after finishing 2nd to Kasey Kahne.
-2012: Brad Keselowski beats Greg Biffle by 19 points, while Jimmie Johnson still finishes third, 28 points behind.
-2013: Jimmie Johnson wins his third championship by 41 points over Kevin Harvick and 56 points over Matt Kenseth.
Damn, that's not even 5 for Jimmie, that's 3 (yeah yeah, you could argue he didn't give 100% during the season, but the point is he was only the best car over the whole season 3, not 6 times, I wish Rich Petty would say something, Dale Sr is already turning in his grave) !
read, (try to) understand, THEN comment @iRevelationz ...every other sport has better systems:
-in NFL you get Home field advantage and a bye week, for example.
-in soccer, they use Championship systems, with playoffs only when necessary (when it'd be too long or difficult to have a full championship, like in World Cup, which wouldn't last 1 month if so, it'd last 6... or international leagues).
-wild card teams have to win extra game(s), and they'll always have home field disadvantage.
Upsets and "Cinderellas" work and are good stories BECAUSE of this!
Newman and his season best 3rd place should have only been allowed to race for the title if he managed to overcome all the odds stacked against him (because of his below-Top-level regular season racing).
The odds he had? a mere 9 point differential with Gordon at the start of the Chase, despite Gordon scoring a whopping 132 more points (914 vs 782, that's a 5.1 place average differential, btw) in 26 previous races.
3 races later, forget about that 132 or 9 point difference, they're effing... tied
Where's "homefield (dis)advantage" or that "bye week(s)" for performing better/worse in regular season?
NASCAR/we can come up with a better, fairer system. If Newman ends up in the Finale with that system (previous page), then he's as deserving as Harvick/Logano/Kez/Gordon/Dale Jr, and only then.
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- 547
- iTribulationz
- iResurrectionz
Gotta love it when people bring up the "what if no Chase", assuming everyone would race the exact same way and finish in the exact same positions they originally did. Yet I'm the one that should (try to) understand.
As for the burn comment, I have no idea what you're trying to start there.
by "try to understand" I mean my formula (facepalm).Gotta love it when people bring up the "what if no Chase", assuming everyone would race the exact same way and finish in the exact same positions they originally did. Yet I'm the one that should (try to) understand.
As for the burn comment, I have no idea what you're trying to start there.
As for the results being different: Johnson was only experimenting during the regular season for his whole 6 time run, of course... NOT, or he wouldn't even have made the cutoff if so. I can't do anything for you if you seriously think Jimmie would be a 6 time Champ if we used a point system only ---> more than TWO HUNDRED freaking points behind Harvick in 2011, don't let facts stand in the way of your opinion! LOL
As for the burn comment I know EXACTLY what you're doing. I don't have more time to dedicate to you, or I would dig one of your posts that shows your clear-as-crystal attitude towards me, that same attitude GTPorsche had.
@MustangRyan
thanks for liking his post, I'll know never to pay attention to what you say anymore, since you're a terrible judge.
- 547
- iTribulationz
- iResurrectionz
What in the world are you going on about? Please provide the quote where I said that I think Jimmie would be a still 6-time champ without the Chase. I merely said things wouldn't have played out exactly the same.
Read, (try to) understand, THEN comment.
Likewise.
So you take the time to tell me you don't have the time to dig for a quote that shows some specific attitude towards you? That makes a lot of sense.
Look, if you think I have some personal vendetta against you, that's not what this is. You just happen to say a lot of ignorant things that catch my attention. Any other user posting the exact same comments as you would receive the exact same reaction from me.
Don't like that? The ignore button is there for a reason. 👍
Also, way to call out and insult someone that has nothing to do with this conversation just because they liked a meaningless post on the internet. Talk about being childish....
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- Droptop2001gt
You should never judge someone based solely on a like on a post with which you disagree. You should look for more substance before forming long-lasting opinions on someone else.
It's not just that I like his post, but I really do agree with it. I've expressed similar beliefs before in this very same thread. Please go back, read my previous thoughts on the matter, and then you can feel free to dislike me for far more valid reasons.
Start reading at the link below, and keep reading down a few posts.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/2014-nascar-thread.290527/page-236#post-10062549
- 6,272
- Tecumseh, MI
- I_Fail_At_FPS
To watch or not to watch- that is the question.
EDIT: I was hoping that they would have shown the Texas fight in the highlights.
EDIT 2: Other than Harvick's jab at Logano, that was an utter snoozefest. Even for what was essentially a press conference, that was boring.
EDIT: I was hoping that they would have shown the Texas fight in the highlights.
EDIT 2: Other than Harvick's jab at Logano, that was an utter snoozefest. Even for what was essentially a press conference, that was boring.
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Considering he has trouble just letting things go and moving on, I'm not surprised by his attitude.
He keeps triggering my google alerts...
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It's gotta be ICE YOU, right guys?
