2015 TUDOR United Sportscar Championship

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Ride height, they run the highest ride height for GTE and GTAM in WEC due to BoP regulations and the cars don't change that much from what I've seen and read between racing them there and over here. Unlike Porsche who has a spec America car and then their WEC cars. So yeah.

But i don't talk about the AMR V8 Vantage from GTE. That one doesn't have much body roll.
I talk about the AMR V12 Vantage GTD



I can't get the starting minutes working right, go check out at minutes: 2:05 and 9:20
 
https://twitter.com/danecameron19/status/525344320162127872

Dane Cameron will join Eric Curran in the #31 Whelen Engineering Daytona Prototype for 2015. Another change is that Action Express will be fielding the car.

So Curran moves from Marsh Racing, Cameron moves from GT to Prototype where he raced at both Risi and Turner Motorsports this year. Interesting combo. One going to a new team and the other going to a new class.
 
So Curran moves from Marsh Racing, Cameron moves from GT to Prototype where he raced at both Risi and Turner Motorsports this year. Interesting combo. One going to a new team and the other going to a new class.
Dane Cameron drove for Sahlen's in 2013 in the #42 BMW Riley where he won a few poles, so he does have a season of prototype experience under his belt
 
But i don't talk about the AMR V8 Vantage from GTE. That one doesn't have much body roll.
I talk about the AMR V12 Vantage GTD



I can't get the starting minutes working right, go check out at minutes: 2:05 and 9:20


I think that was due to something that happened with the suspension in a crash (at least, that's what I recall hearing during the race) so the car ended up getting some major body role.
 
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I think that was due to something that happened with the suspension in a crash (at least, that's what I recall hearing during the race) so the car ended up getting some makor body role.
The Die-Activ made a bold move in the kink during warm up for the Road America race and took out the TRG AM and itself very hard if that's the wreck you're talking about.
 
I think that was due to something that happened with the suspension in a crash (at least, that's what I recall hearing during the race) so the car ended up getting some major body role.

That body roll of the AMR was already at Sebring (Round 2) that brutal.
 
oh man, from 350.000$ to 2 millions...
Wow, that's alot of stuff...
I think iwould go to PWC too then.
Eventhough i love the TUSCC
 
That's a pretty long winded way of saying "you can run you GT3 car here without modifications and a stable rules package" (which is still unfair considering TUSCC is still a new series.).
 
I'm sorry, but why exactly? Its only four races in comparison to the WEC's 8 rounds so its not even big enough to be its own championship individually.
Then add more! You have 4 very traditional and hallowed races in Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Road Atlanta...why not create a few more? Spread it out over the course of year, and make it worth while. Maybe add three 6 hour events at Road America, Indianapolis, and Miller...have it a 7 round championship worth something. But I'm realistic, and sadly that won't ever happen. But a WEC structure for NAEC would be very...very cool. NAEC has more potential than Tudor possibly. Makes the money spent on an endurance race worth it, as seen by more part time entries for NAEC than for the Tudor regular season.
 
It's no different from Indycar's triple crown or the old Winston Millions in Nascar. Except that it's scored as it's own mini-series.

I see no reason to spin it off.
 
Then add more! You have 4 very traditional and hallowed races in Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Road Atlanta...why not create a few more? Spread it out over the course of year, and make it worth while. Maybe add three 6 hour events at Road America, Indianapolis, and Miller...have it a 7 round championship worth something. But I'm realistic, and sadly that won't ever happen. But a WEC structure for NAEC would be very...very cool. NAEC has more potential than Tudor possibly. Makes the money spent on an endurance race worth it, as seen by more part time entries for NAEC than for the Tudor regular season.
Imagine the budget for that... Not the least bit feasible. It would further bastardize the regular length races as well making only the endurance races worth watching, and even then just to run that championship it would make for a smaller field. Not a good idea.
 
Hell why not just do away with in general....what's really the point of it in the grand scheme of things? Just offer more bonus money for those longer races and call it good.
 
Hell why not just do away with in general....what's really the point of it in the grand scheme of things? Just offer more bonus money for those longer races and call it good.
That's what Patron is doing currently. They boosted the prize money at a few more races too. Another big series sponsor or two for those races and the prize money will make the budgets a lot easier. I'd cut the season to 10 rounds to lighten the budget as well. Gotta make the season affordable
 
I'm sorry, but why exactly? Its only four races in comparison to the WEC's 8 rounds so its not even big enough to be its own championship individually.

That article you wrote off as a....
long winded way of saying "you can run you GT3 car here without modifications and a stable rules package"
... was about more than just that. They specifically mentioned that all of these teams leaving GTD for PWC made that point that they could run the entire 19-round PWC season and the Daytona 24h would still put more hours on equipment. And yet despite that, many of the teams considered that if they were going to run in TUSC, it would most likely only be for the NAEC. At that point, why not consider just breaking it up?

This way a team can elect to run just the normal TUSC races and still be in contention for the championship without needing a massive budget from all the hours put on the cars by running the season AND the NAEC.

On top of that, they can sell programs to more drivers between the two series, which would help them cover costs and could potentially allow them to participate in both series (TUSC/NAEC) anyways.

It'd be really no different than the BSS/BES twins, giving a bonus to those who participate in both as well.

Then add more! You have 4 very traditional and hallowed races in Daytona, Sebring, Watkins Glen, and Road Atlanta...why not create a few more? Spread it out over the course of year, and make it worth while. Maybe add three 6 hour events at Road America, Indianapolis, and Miller...have it a 7 round championship worth something. But I'm realistic, and sadly that won't ever happen. But a WEC structure for NAEC would be very...very cool. NAEC has more potential than Tudor possibly. Makes the money spent on an endurance race worth it, as seen by more part time entries for NAEC than for the Tudor regular season.

No, this would undo the whole point of breaking them apart in the first place. At the very least, it would be one event for a total of five (Possibly bring back the 6h Laguna Seca Race for a West Coast event). But the whole point of separating them is to reduce the amount of track time.

If you ever look at a race car for sale, you'll notice that the engine says how many hours are on it since it's last rebuild. There's a reason for that. And a longer racing season means more hours on a race car, which means more money they have to ask for from Gentleman drivers, which means fewer available drivers, etc.

And as much as adding full-spec GT3 cars will help lower costs a bit, it will remove the GT America, which was a complete bargain compared to every car it was racing against. There's a reason there were so damn many of them.
 
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That article you wrote off as a....

... was about more than just that. They specifically mentioned that all of these teams leaving GTD for PWC made that point that they could run the entire 19-round PWC season and the Daytona 24h would still put more hours on equipment. And yet despite that, many of the teams considered that if they were going to run in TUSC, it would most likely only be for the NAEC. At that point, why not consider just breaking it up?

This way a team can elect to run just the normal TUSC races and still be in contention for the championship without needing a massive budget from all the hours put on the cars by running the season AND the NAEC.

On top of that, they can sell programs to more drivers between the two series, which would help them cover costs and could potentially allow them to participate in both series (TUSC/NAEC) anyways.

It'd be really no different than the BSS/BES twins, giving a bonus to those who participate in both as well.

2 Things:

1. I didn't dismiss the article, I didn't even read it but based on the rage quitting, I assumed that's what it essentially was: Consistancy in the rules (which was by far the biggest complaint in the inaugural season).

2. Its literally only 1 class (and a class that will only be in its current configuration for one more season). Why does there need to be a separate series just because its one class that's set to be losing many teams?


Also, I sorta don't see how the Porsche 911 GT3 America was a bargain. It was a car I feel that was for the most part severly outpaced by detuned, Bespoke GT3 Machines. I'd call it more of a cheap alternative. If the last two years have shown anything (The final season of Grand-Am GT class and this year's GTD class in the TUSC), its that you need a GT3 car to win and those Porsches as far as I can tell aren't cutting it. They were already being regularly outpaced by Tube Frame cars Masquerading as Mazda RX-8s and GTOs/GXP.Rs/Camaros and the moment Ferrari bought their Detuned 458 GT3s in, they just ran away with the title.
 
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I'm liking how in a matter of a few years, Action Express went from being the team with an "old" Brumos car using the "wrong" Porsche engine, and somehow winning Daytona, to them now running 3 competitive cars and being the class of the field. Well done.
 
2 Things:

1. I didn't dismiss the article, I didn't even read it but based on the rage quitting, I assumed that's what it essentially was: Consistancy in the rules (which was by far the biggest complaint in the inaugural season).

While I understand what I think you may mean by saying you didn't dismiss it, this is dismissing the article.


2. Its literally only 1 class (and a class that will only be in its current configuration for one more season). Why does there need to be a separate series just because its one class that's set to be losing many teams?

It's one class where it's most glaring, yes, but that's because the GTD class is the biggest. GTLM doesn't exactly have to worry about the same problems because they're manufacturer backed (or heavily sponsored in Falken's case), and they don't have any other options to run their machinery in here in the US, but they just lost Dodge-SRT and Aston Martin hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about racing here so that class may have permanently shrunk.

Prototype teams have been complaining about costs since the beginning, and with one of the series title sponsor'd teams considering the WEC, another P2 squad dilly dallying on their commitment to the series (OAK, with their "We don't want to race our customers"), we may see that group or cars shrink even more. Especially if DP teams decide not to (or are unable to fund) the move to the new P cars in a year or so.

PC is the only class where the situation is actually improving and that's the class I love the least.


Also, I sorta don't see how the Porsche 911 GT3 America was a bargain. It was a car I feel that was for the most part severly outpaced by detuned, Bespoke GT3 Machines. I'd call it more of a cheap alternative. If the last two years have shown anything (The final season of Grand-Am GT class and this year's GTD class in the TUSC), its that you need a GT3 car to win and those Porsches as far as I can tell aren't cutting it. They were already being regularly outpaced by Tube Frame cars Masquerading as Mazda RX-8s and GTOs/GXP.Rs/Camaros and the moment Ferrari bought their Detuned 458 GT3s in, they just ran away with the title.

It is a bargain because it put a lot of teams in the show without them having to even drop $300k. And lest you forget, one of the three teams in the championship hunt at the end of the season was racing one.

And you do realize that Magnus Racing lost the 2013 Grand Am Drivers championship by only ten points, right? They weren't exactly getting blown out like you're alluding to. Not at all in fact.
 
While I understand what I think you may mean by saying you didn't dismiss it, this is dismissing the article.

I simply made a short response to it. If it is dismissing it, that wasn't my intention to and that the way I did may certainly come off as me simply doing so.


It's one class where it's most glaring, yes, but that's because the GTD class is the biggest. GTLM doesn't exactly have to worry about the same problems because they're manufacturer backed (or heavily sponsored in Falken's case), and they don't have any other options to run their machinery in here in the US, but they just lost Dodge-SRT and Aston Martin hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about racing here so that class may have permanently shrunk.

The class already shrunk across the series when the ACO thought it was a wonderful idea to introduce this stupid Pro/AM system, making GTE a mostly factory class and TUSC's case was simply down to one manufacterer's sour grapes (Aston) and another decided by the boardroom (Chrysler). If they would get rid of this system, we could have more via more GTE priveteers.

As for Falken, it works somewhat like Red Bull Racing in V8 Supercars in that the company owns the team rather then just sponsors it and given they are a huge company, they can afford to actually be the third (kinda unofficial) Factory car.

Prototype teams have been complaining about costs since the beginning, and with one of the series title sponsor'd teams considering the WEC, another P2 squad dilly dallying on their commitment to the series (OAK, with their "We don't want to race our customers"), we may see that group or cars shrink even more. Especially if DP teams decide not to (or are unable to fund) the move to the new P cars in a year or so.

I think after the performance in the TUSC at COTA (Coupled with OAK having already done this at Le Mans AND In WEC at COTA and Fuji), I'm pretty sure that view has changed.

Also, the Prototype class is not in as near dire straights according to the latest news regarding teams (Although the shuffling around is what is the most interesting).

It is a bargain because it put a lot of teams in the show without them having to even drop $300k. And lest you forget, one of the three teams in the championship hunt at the end of the season was racing one.

And you do realize that Magnus Racing lost the 2013 Grand Am Drivers championship by only ten points, right? They weren't exactly getting blown out like you're alluding to. Not at all in fact.

Honestly though, I think it was only Magnus racing (and the relentless talent that is Andy Lally). If anything, that was more of a team doing more with a car it has had then anything else.
 
It's one class where it's most glaring, yes, but that's because the GTD class is the biggest. GTLM doesn't exactly have to worry about the same problems because they're manufacturer backed (or heavily sponsored in Falken's case), and they don't have any other options to run their machinery in here in the US, but they just lost Dodge-SRT and Aston Martin hasn't exactly been enthusiastic about racing here so that class may have permanently shrunk.
GTD was the one everyone was trying to cap at the beginning of 2014. Now all the pessimists are boasting how that class has shrunk while GTLM will more than likely be 20% down as well with no new teams as of today with AIM not getting the funding together.

GTD is losing entries because PWC is so damn cheap to race by comparison. Like you said earlier, the sheer amount of run time on the car is quite price....I tried saying that on another thread here and was quickly told how stupid I was. This once again shows that the budget takes precedent over all of the prestige that is Sebring, Daytona, etc.

I do; however, think GTD will have a much larger grid with this season being a lame duck year with full GT3 coming. I predict that the larger budgeted PWC teams will step up and at least run endurance races and probably some the full season.
Prototype teams have been complaining about costs since the beginning, and with one of the series title sponsor'd teams considering the WEC, another P2 squad dilly dallying on their commitment to the series (OAK, with their "We don't want to race our customers"), we may see that group or cars shrink even more. Especially if DP teams decide not to (or are unable to fund) the move to the new P cars in a year or so.
I disagree. New teams showing up still. Basically every team that's here is still here as well other than ESM, but can we really call them a good team anyway? They spent half of the season in the garage retired. Oak/8Star will have a car here at least some of the season assuming Enzo doesn't go full IndyCar.

It is a bargain because it put a lot of teams in the show without them having to even drop $300k. And lest you forget, one of the three teams in the championship hunt at the end of the season was racing one.

And you do realize that Magnus Racing lost the 2013 Grand Am Drivers championship by only ten points, right? They weren't exactly getting blown out like you're alluding to. Not at all in fact.


Yep had this not happened, Magnus would have won in 2013
 
That seems pretty smart since the DP probably be around after the TUSC Prototype rule changes become official in a few years. It looks like Shank might be thinking about racing in this series for the long term, and he wants a jump on the P2 since that'll probably be the go to prototype in the future.
 
Michael Shank buys slice of humble pie; runs Ligier P2 after Daytona.

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/110592-imsa-shank-buys-ligier-sets-le-mans-target

Haha, love it when someone eats their words. The guy I really want to choke on his comments though is JC France.

That seems pretty smart since the DP probably be around after the TUSC Prototype rule changes become official in a few years. It looks like Shank might be thinking about racing in this series for the long term, and he wants a jump on the P2 since that'll probably be the go to prototype in the future.

I guarantee 2015 is the last year for DPs. If the performance of the Ligier at COTA is anything to go by, the margin between the DPs and P2 cars has shrunk considerably. Of course there's Daytona, but there's really nothing like Daytona so..
 
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Haha, love it when someone eats their words. The guy I really want to choke on his comments though is JC France.



I guarantee 2015 is the last year for DPs. If the performance of the Ligier at COTA is anything to go by, the margin between the DPs and P2 cars is stricken considerably. Of course there's Daytona, but there's really nothing like Daytona so..
I agree. Even if the regulations still permit the DP in 2016, it will probably be won't be competing for the championship. The Legier owning COTA was a dead giveaway about the P2's potential. And had it not been for that late race caution at Watkins Glen, the Nissan Morgan probably would have won that race too. After all, that car was pretty much the class of the field there.
 
Michael Shank buys slice of humble pie; runs Ligier P2 after Daytona.

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/110592-imsa-shank-buys-ligier-sets-le-mans-target
IMSA brought back the Treuman/Akin award back(gentleman driver award given in Grand am) with an auto Le Mans invite as the champion's prize. John Pew has enough cash for Le Mans, and now with the award, getting an invite isn't an issue anymore. They're going to go if they get the auto invite...the only way to go is if the team has a car that can race there. Smart move if you ask me

DP chassis operating costs keep going up as well as well as the fact the DP type chassis is nowhere in the future. We'll see the Vette DPs until 2017 probably, but I doubt there will be more than a handful.
 
I agree. Even if the regulations still permit the DP in 2016, it will probably be won't be competing for the championship. The Legier owning COTA was a dead giveaway about the P2's potential. And had it not been for that late race caution at Watkins Glen, the Nissan Morgan probably would have won that race too. After all, that car was pretty much the class of the field there.



I guarantee 2015 is the last year for DPs. If the performance of the Ligier at COTA is anything to go by, the margin between the DPs and P2 cars has shrunk considerably. Of course there's Daytona, but there's really nothing like Daytona so..

Not so fast guys, there is still GM and the Corvette DP. Since GM is giving those teams *SOME* factory support in addition to the Corvette GTE's, AND they haven't announced a similar program for P2 yet, AND their waiting on whether custom bodywork will be an option in the future you can be darn sure their teams will be fighting the Ligiers (however un successful they may be) until the bitter end. what happens after that though, IDK

PS, GM have also said that said car is getting an upgrade soon to look closer to the GTE. That could be a game-changer
 
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