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[OutlawQuadrnt]

But then we would get extensive driver coaching.

This whole "driver coaching" complaining is overblown. If driving a fragile complicated piece of machinery at super high rates of speed would be made that easy, then I could hop into a Mercedes and win a race with instruction. However, that's not going to happen because in the end, I would still need to execute my inputs properly, as would any other driver on the track. The other counterpoint is that I find all these bureaucratic rules about what you can and cannot say on the radio to be the greater of two evils and to be honest, I don't trust them to actually fix the matter properly.

Again, I'm in the minority opinion here.

 

[niky]

So, considering the closing speeds and the heavy braking for the corner, what happens when an attacking driver is only ahead momentarily? If a defending move that forces an attacking driver to radically change direction is illegal, then so too is an attacking move that forces a defending driver to radically change direction.

An attacking move from behind that pushes the defender off track is always illegal, unless the defender has moved off the racing line to squeeze the attacker off the track.

It doesn't matter how long Hamilton was in front. He was in front before the braking zone, and in front when they were on the outside of the apex. He was the defender in this case. Closing speed nothing. He was faster out of the previous corner. He was faster down the straight. He had more grip. He had better drive. Nico only caught up because he wasn't attempting to make the corner.

 

[kilesa4568]

So, considering the closing speeds and the heavy braking for the corner, what happens when an attacking driver is only ahead momentarily? If a defending move that forces an attacking driver to radically change direction is illegal, then so too is an attacking move that forces a defending driver to radically change direction.

The only radical change of direction was Rosberg's. He had all the room he could ever need for that corner but he decided to keep his steering straight to run Hamilton off the track or over the kerbs. He could see Hamilton all the way but I doubt Hamilton had him in his mirror (steering angle) mid corner when he was forced to turn in (for track limits) so running so deep was bound to result in a collision. Lewis probably heard him close by but had to assume he at least attempted the corner.

He only started his turn in a fraction of a second after Lewis started to turn in (which he could see...) and by then, it was too late to avoid the collision.

 

[XJ40]

So, considering the closing speeds and the heavy braking for the corner, what happens when an attacking driver is only ahead momentarily?

It would appear to me that dive-bombing becomes acceptable racing practice providing you can stick your car ahead "according to the rules" and fight it out with the stewards later, assuming after all that that you can come out of the corner ahead (I don't think that Hamilton was doing that, it is my belief that the undercut, and a legit non dive-bomb into 3, was the objective)

If a defending move that forces an attacking driver to radically change direction is illegal

I think Rosbergs' line was very defensive, therefore the line that Rosberg expected Lewis to have to take was pretty exceptional (who would take that corner with their left tyres hugging the line?!?)

then so too is an attacking move that forces a defending driver to radically change direction.

Lewis' line (as the attacking driver) didn't force Nico to change direction in my opinion, as Nico had the inside and was in control of the corner from his point of view, so chose to run Lewis wide.

Edit: Tree'd twice... is there a record?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

This whole "driver coaching" complaining is overblown. If driving a fragile complicated piece of machinery at super high rates of speed would be made that easy, then I could hop into a Mercedes and win a race with instruction.

Is it? We only hear a fraction of it, based on what FOM chooses to broadcast. There were reports that some teams were telling their drivers which gear to be in lap by lap, which is taking things too far.

 

[IforceV8]

I'm pretty sure they can inform drivers of issues on the grounds of safety. Brake issues certainly fall into that category.

According to Force India Deputy team principal Bob Fernley of the answer to that is no.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

According to Force India Deputy team principal Bob Fernley of the answer to that is no.

Well, that's just weird. Why the hell isn't the imminent failure of the brakes classified as a safety issue?

 

[RazorSharkz]

I'm going to change the subject. I read somewhere else that Manor/Marrussia could be the new Minardi, being a popular backmarker team that finds young potential drivers such as Wehrlein and Bianchi. They also get tons of fanfare for even scoring points or making it out of Q1. I thought it was fair to compare them in that way.

 

[mustafur]

The Young Talent that Manor get will likely be linked to an engine deal, like Wehrlein and Bianchi.

 

[dopedog]

That crash was clearly Rosburgs fault, but how he came to be acting like that in the first place, they both need other people to race against rather than just themselves, then maybe they could feel like they have to drive for the team a bit more and with some sense, Rosburg could of allowed Lewis more space and if he passed him he gets 2nd place bag of points and then just say after "the brakes were dead" or "Tyres dropped off" etc etc. Same as Lewis and Nico in Spain maybe could of looked at the long game rather than take each other out 3 corners into a 60 odd lap race.

The reason Toto can allow his drivers to race is because they know full well they will wrap up the WCC as they are so far ahead as a team, as soon as other teams sort themselves out see how quick Merc go for orders, Merc are far more interested in WCC than the WDC, WDC is for the fans.

For sure I think both Lewis and Nico, Nico more so, have forgotten how it is in worse cars and its made them so one track minded and just so into each other as they need not worry about any other driver at the moment. So all they care about is beating each other to the point it may just of cost Nico his first WDC, and once the other teams catch up he may never have this chance again....

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

For sure I think both Lewis and Nico, Nico more so, have forgotten how it is in worse cars and its made them so one track minded and just so into each other as they need not worry about any other driver at the moment. So all they care about is beating each other to the point it may just of cost Nico his first WDC, and once the other teams catch up he may never have this chance again....

Point ahead in the constructor championship have nothing to do with where they stand in the ranking, both Sauber collide in Monaco and they are backmaker and can't afford to miss a single chance.

The trouble is that Rosberg is trying to drive like he feel Lewis is driving against him but without Lewis racecraft so instead of beeing a good but tough move it transform into a mistake in my eyes (spa and A1ring).

In my opinion Rosberg should just focus on doing the best he can the way he usually drive and if he manage to do that he'll win the championship. Have he done that on Sunday he would have lost only 8 points instead of what 14 (not sure there) ? Or maybe he could have won that race if he just took the normal line and blocked Lewis at exit.

You have to remember that Lewis will most likely encounter a race soon where he'll start around 20th. I'm guessing Monza but it could be Spa too.

 

[dopedog]

Point ahead in the constructor championship have nothing to do with where they stand in the ranking, both Sauber collide in Monaco and they are backmaker and can't afford to miss a single chance.

The trouble is that Rosberg is trying to drive like he feel Lewis is driving against him but without Lewis racecraft so instead of beeing a good but tough move it transform into a mistake in my eyes (spa and A1ring).

In my opinion Rosberg should just focus on doing the best he can the way he usually drive and if he manage to do that he'll win the championship. Have he done that on Sunday he would have lost only 8 points instead of what 14 (not sure there) ? Or maybe he could have won that race if he just took the normal line and blocked Lewis at exit.

You have to remember that Lewis will most likely encounter a race soon where he'll start around 20th. I'm guessing Monza but it could be Spa too.

I agree with everything you said, but Lewis and Nico aren't racing agaisnt anyone else, did you see how Nico got through from 6th on the grid to 2nd? Sauber crashing in Monaco wasn't a pass so much as a take out due to anger.
In 20 years time when Lewis is a F1 legend in the top 10 of drivers ever, Nico will be able to look back and think "I ran him very very close", now he can't feel that, but in time he should be very proud how honest he's kept Lewis.

 

[Telstar]

Are there any recordings or videos of the Legends Parade? Would love to see M1 Procar race.

Found one:


Too bad the commentator is talking a mile a minute so you can barely hear the sound of the cars.

 

[Furinkazen]

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Hamilton's fault for unplugging Rosberg's controller.

At this point, I'm not even sure team orders will be effective. I'd love to see them try only to have another incident anyways, all just to see Toto's reaction.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

James Allen on the Austria strategy and whether Hamilton and Mercedes were destined to come together:

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016...lision-and-how-did-verstappen-beat-raikkonen/

The short version - yes. Mercedes moved both drivers onto a two-stop to make sure they got to the end, but if they had both stayed out or if only one of them moved to a two-stop, then Hamilton would have had to have passed Rosberg, or Rosberg would have had to have passed Hamilton.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Glenn Freeman looks at what Rosberg was trying to achieve and why it was a good idea in theory (if not in practice):

http://www.autosport.com/premium/feature/7073/rosberg-was-right-to-stand-up-to-hamilton

 

[dopedog]

I wonder if Toto will introduce a 'pole gets win' route? He sort of has to do something as this pantomime is funny for neutrals but pretty desperate for Merc.
Whatever happens the 2 Mercs will always be occupying the same bit of tarmac provided neither has issues as they are such great cars with 2 close drivers who neither of which is a Number 2 (salary aside), its not a coincidence they are clashing, it's because they race no one but themselves.
Lewis should cruise the British GP though.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I wonder if Toto will introduce a 'pole gets win' route

He has said that he will issue team orders if he feels he has to.

Lewis should cruise the British GP though.

Based on what? Rosberg being the form driver of 2016?

 

[tribolik]

Lewis should cruise the British GP though.

Im not so sure... Ive heard that Maldonado is back (under disguise) and this time with the fastest car on the grid...

 

[dopedog]

He has said that he will issue team orders if he feels he has to.


Based on what? Rosberg being the form driver of 2016?

Based on it's his home GP and provided no mechanical issues or tyre blow outs he should get pole and should then win. Note I said he 'should' cruise it, best car by a mile and is the better driver out of the two and no other cars anywhere near to win unless both Mercs crash out or have issues. So Lewis should cruise it.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I wonder if Toto will introduce a 'pole gets win' route? He sort of has to do something as this pantomime is funny for neutrals but pretty desperate for Merc.
Whatever happens the 2 Mercs will always be occupying the same bit of tarmac provided neither has issues as they are such great cars with 2 close drivers who neither of which is a Number 2 (salary aside), its not a coincidence they are clashing, it's because they race no one but themselves.
Lewis should cruise the British GP though.

So we don't watch the race? Or maybe we do but only to see the start. After that, what would be the point?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Based on it's his home GP and provided no mechanical issues or tyre blow outs he should get pole and should then win.

Because so many drivers win their home Grands Prix. I remember when Ricciardo won in Australia, Sainz in Spain, Kvyat in Russia, Vettel in Germany, Pérez in Mexico and Nasr in Brazil.

There's no correlation between nationality and success in a race, and my dislike of the "he's British so he must be quick" attitude is well-documented.

 

[TenEightyOne]

There's no correlation between nationality and success in a race, and my dislike of the "he's British so he must be quick" attitude is well-documented.

There is however a correlation between track familiarity and speed. See Wehrlein, Spielberg for details

I remember when Ricciardo won in Australia

I remember him finishing second in a non-championship-winning car, if that helps?

Vettel in Germany

Yep, I definitely remember that.

my dislike of the "he's British so he must be quick" attitude is well-documented.

I've never heard of that attitude. Jolyon Palmer, anybody?

 

[kilesa4568]

I've got a feeling Rosberg's days might be numbered at Mercedes. He's brilliant with the qualifying but he doesn't inspire any confidence when the pressure is on in the race.

I think there are currently much better racers out there compared to him. Can you imagine Ricciardo as his team mate?

 

[dopedog]

So we don't watch the race? Or maybe we do but only to see the start. After that, what would be the point?

Did you watch the last GP? What even is your point, do you not follow F1? Did I miss any other cars being at a stage we expect Merc to get beaten? It's 1-2 all day long so long as the 2 guys driving don't crash or breakdown or have car issues. Still watch it as the racing behind when they show it is ace and the guys in class B cars are some class acts.

 

[dopedog]

Because so many drivers win their home Grands Prix. I remember when Ricciardo won in Australia, Sainz in Spain, Kvyat in Russia, Vettel in Germany, Pérez in Mexico and Nasr in Brazil.

There's no correlation between nationality and success in a race, and my dislike of the "he's British so he must be quick" attitude is well-documented.

No he's British and in the best car by a long long chalk and just happens to be a very good driver, generally those things added together mean he has a pretty good chance, all he has to do is beat Rosburg.

 

[Tired Tyres]

There's no correlation between nationality and success in a race, and my dislike of the "he's British so he must be quick" attitude is well-documented.

The ONLY thing well documented in F1 threads is an irrational hatred on YOUR part.

 

[dopedog]

opps

 

[dopedog]

I've got a feeling Rosberg's days might be numbered at Mercedes. He's brilliant with the qualifying but he doesn't inspire any confidence when the pressure is on in the race.

I think there are currently much better racers out there compared to him. Can you imagine Ricciardo as his team mate?

Clearly there are, but would Lewis want them in the team, he struggles enough against Rosburg, anyway Ricciardo won't be liking having a 17 year old showing him his heals..
Generally you want a subservient No2 driver. Lewis would want someone like a Hulkenburg type or even Bottas with instructions of being No2 literally hired to be that, like Rubens and Irvine were and Webber to a degree and many before them..