2016 Le Mans 24 Hours - 15th to 19th June 2016

[lxmmy]

Now, we wait for Ford to make some kind of documentary on their road to success at Le Mans......

 

[Luminis]

Don't worry Ferrari and Aston have protested Ford as they got within 7% of the LMP2's so have had their trophies taken off them for now.

I can see Aston, Chevy and Porsche protesting the BoP stuff the ACO has been pulling, but Ferrari? I know, I know, not the marque to be used to have rules stacked against it, but they were obviously capable of delivering a competitive performance.

That said, I think the issue lies with the ACO's attempts at creating a level playing field. Punishing someone for building a fast car while abiding to the regulations is the exact reason we're seeing politics and sandbagging being the third big factor (with driver skill and luck being the other two) instead of engineering & developing the best car on the grid. Money probably plays the same role regardless. The ACO really is messing things up, imho. I, for one, would rather see a given team win because their car was obviously best instead of winning because they played the ACO's game of power the best. Same for filing protests for broken light clusters. I can't wrap my head around the ACO's acceptance of such stuff - I mean, actually complying with that and handing out penalties just gives out a huge incentive to play these games in the future.

They say they do stuff like the BoP so things can be decided on the track. Bollocks, I say. With an uneven playing field, you're at least winning due to craftsmanship and engineering, not politics and skirting the rules.

Seeing Ford play by the ACO's books and using the tools the ACO offered them is bloody awful, but I, for one, am putting more blame on the ACO for getting those tools out there than on Ford for using them. And with Aston and Ferrari filing complaints, hoping to wrestle the trophy from Ford, hours after the track went silent? Makes them hardly any better. Probs to Chevy for not joining them, though.

 

[McLaren]

Super classy from Porsche on Twitter.

I'm sure Porsche respected the fact at the end, that Toyota was going to win after a hard fought battle to bring Japan its 2nd Le Mans Championship. It's just "was" & "did" ended up being 2 different outcomes.

 

[Dan]

This headline.

They had a maximum of six minutes to complete the final lap? What the hell? Why?

To be honest: I don't want manufacturers like Toyota or Audi to win LM. Manufacturers of family cars should not participate in racing at all. Unfortunately they (still) do and have far more money than the private teams. I can't think of a single reason why someone interested in motorsports becomes a fan of Toyota.

Initially, I thought you meant that the manufacturers shouldn't be directly involved and instead let private teams outside of the manufacturers race, then I realized what you actually meant. Your opinion is crap either way.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

fun fact: I never rooted for Toyota and not really going to as I'm somewhat biased against Asian car manufacturers for no rational reason

That is one of the best posts in a long time. I love the brutal honesty.

👍

 

[Luminis]

I'm sure Porsche respected the fact at the end, that Toyota was going to win after a hard fought battle to bring Japan its 2nd Le Mans Championship. It's just "was" & "did" ended up being 2 different outcomes.

Haven't seen any hostility from Toyota towards Porsche, either.

Not that I expected any. Just sayin'.

 

[SiriusR]

Now, we wait for Ford to make some kind of documentary on their road to success at Le Mans......

Don't they have one already?

 

[Davidies]

They had a maximum of six minutes to complete the final lap? What the hell? Why?

I read once on the internet that it's a rule that was set in place because Chevrolet, way back in time, used to build up a huge lead and then just park in the pits until they could just roll out and finish. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I read once on the internet that it's a rule that was set in place because Chevrolet, way back in time, used to build up a huge lead and then just park in the pits until they could just roll out and finish. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

That can't be it because you still can do exactly that. What you can't do and was usual many years ago was to park your car on the side of the track, close to the finish line, and wait for the leader to end the race so you could do it too.

Stopped in the pits for hours - yes.

Stopped or slowly moving about the track making a lap last more than 6 minutes - no.

 

[Davidies]

That can't be it because you still can do exactly that. What you can't do and was usual many years ago was to park your car on the side of the track, close to the finish line, and wait for the leader to end the race so you could do it too.

Stopped in the pits for hours - yes.

Stopped or slowly moving about the track making a lap last more than 6 minutes - no.

Ah, I was slightly right.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'll share this.

This can't be those dirty scum took away the win from the most "deserving" team, RAWR.

 

[McLaren]

I am not saying Porsche didn't deserve it, I say Toyota deserved it more.
It wouldn't have hurt the Porsche guys much if they didn't win this one, but the whole Toyota crew is devastated now.

Toyota winning, Porsche second = Everyone happy
What we have now = Porsche and Audi happy with luck, Toyota guys hurt deeply

Yes and Porsche did it already 17 times before, so why not "grant" it Toyota at least once?

You do realize no one wants to win that way. I'll bet my life Toyota would prefer to lose this way than for Porsche to stop and "grant" them a win. That's pathetic and only tarnishes your victory because the world only remembers your victory as a gift.

This was an upset and upsets are a big part of the sporting world.

Haven't seen any hostility from Toyota towards Porsche, either.

Not that I expected any. Just sayin'.

I don't expect any, either. Toyota knows Porsche had to run through the same gauntlet they did.

Why I laugh at these posts going, "Well, Porsche has 17 victories, they'd be happy in second". Because Porsche didn't go through their own hardships getting those 17 victories. IIRC, Porsche's first time in Le Mans was sometime in the early 50's, ('51 maybe?). They didn't clinch their first overall win til' 1970 with the 917.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Now, we wait for Ford to make some kind of documentary on their road to success at Le Mans......

They built a brand new car, took it to Le Mans with a V6 TT(that shares 60% of the internals with a Taurus SHO V6 TT) and not only won their class but finished 1-3-4 and had all four cars enter finish the 24 hour race.

While the 1966 1-2-3 win was fantastic it was only after the failure of 1965.

What Ford did here is a fantastic accomplishment and does deserve a documentary and praise to show that a family car company can still dominate the production car classes at the 24 hours of Le Mans(Not to mention the Ferrari 488 was a brand new car too.).

 

[G.T.Ace]

You do realize no one wants to win that way. I'll bet my life Toyota would prefer to lose this way than for Porsche to stop and "grant" them a win.

Man, read my damn posts correctly, I already stated several times that this is not what I meant for effs sake.

 

[IforceV8]

Penalties explained. http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/gte-pro-race-winning-ford-gt-penalized-post-race/

 

[McLaren]

Man, read my damn posts correctly, I already stated several times that this is not what I meant for effs sake.

I have just as everyone else. Don't blame us because you can't construct your meaning properly.

Not that it matters. Toyota doesn't want the win any other way than what they originally went for.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Toyota will have gained fans from this weirdly enough, I like Toyota (and suspect there is a few like me) because of their underdog nature (never won it before, etc).

 

[FordGTGuy]

Penalties explained. http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/gte-pro-race-winning-ford-gt-penalized-post-race/

Ford GT were given last minute BoP changes with both weight and boost restrictions so Ferrari trying to argue they were outside of GTE-Pro Performance is a bunch of crap when the 488 kept up to the end of the race.

Not to mention the Corvette was give a last minute weight reduction.

As much as I completely feel for Toyota, Porsche raced as long as they did. This is as much a race of car endurance, engineering and both pit and driver skill. The Toyota broke down in the most depressing way possible but Porsche deserve the victory.

 

[SiriusR]

They built a brand new car, took it to Le Mans with a V6 TT(that shares 60% of the internals with a Taurus SHO V6 TT) and not only won their class but finished 1-3-4 and had all four cars enter finish the 24 hour race.

While the 1966 1-2-3 win was fantastic it was only after the failure of 1965.

What Ford did here is a fantastic accomplishment and does deserve a documentary and praise to show that a family car company can still dominate the production car classes at the 24 hours of Le Mans(Not to mention the Ferrari 488 was a brand new car too.).

Can't disagree, though Ford's sandbaggery scandal and post-race penalty feud add a considerable grain of salt to this victory.
Such a shame, as someone who's been rooting for GTs because of adoration of this spaceship-like piece of machinery, I'm nearly heartbroken. Stop it, Ford, you did good enough already, now you're just making things worse for yourself. :'(

 

[FutureF1]

Funny how Ford and Ferrari are arguing like two children while the guys at Porsche, AMR, and Corvette haven't been complaining despite being specced to compete in another class all together.

 

[Harley45]

Probably the the most cruel moment i've witnessed in watching motorsports for over 50 years .

 

[FordGTGuy]

Can't disagree, though Ford's sandbaggery scandal and post-race penalty feud add a considerable grain of salt to this victory.
Such a shame, as someone who's been rooting for GTs because of adoration of this spaceship-like piece of machinery, I'm nearly heartbroken. Stop it, Ford, you did good enough already, now you're just making things worse for yourself. :'(

They received BoP changes at the last minute for that sandbagging too.

In fact they had both a boost restriction(4200-7000 RPM) and a weight restriction.) and that was the league's decision for balancing the cars. Same goes for Ferrari who had a weight restrictions while the Corvette had a weight reduction.

Funny how Ford and Ferrari are arguing like two children while the guys at Porsche, AMR, and Corvette haven't been complaining despite being specced to compete in another class all together.

Only one arguing like a child is Ferrari saying that the Ford isn't in the GTE-PRO performance window when their own car kept up with it to the end.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Ford GT were given last minute BoP changes with both weight and boost restrictions so Ferrari trying to argue they were outside of GTE-Pro Performance is a bunch of crap when the 488 kept up to the end of the race.

Not to mention the Corvette was give a last minute weight reduction.

Corvette weren't given a weight reduction they were just given the ability to use larger restrictors which they didn't because they didn't have the ability to machine them in time for the race. Aston is who you're probably thinking of.

Not only that despite whatever BoP Ford were given (so were Ferrari by the way), they were still able to put down lap times they showed in quali and take a track record for the class. Yeah the BoP really worked, but in reality all it showed was that there was a potential that Ford were still sandbagging even in quali.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Corvette weren't giving a weight reduction they were just given the ability to use larger restrictors which they didn't because they didn't have the ability to machine them in time for the race. Aston is who you're probably thinking of.

Not only that despite whatever BoP Ford were given (so were Ferrari by the way), they were still able to put down lap times they showed in quali and take a track record for the class. Yeah the BoP really worked, but in reality all it showed was that there was a potential that even in Ford were still even sandbagging in quali.

Aston's V8 Vantages will breathe easier thanks to a further 0.4 mm opening of its air restrictors, which will increase power and torque. The Corvette C7.Rs received a 0.3 mm air restrictor break, but the team only has restrictors in hand that would allow a 0.2 mm break.

"It's a move in the right direction," said Corvette Racing program manager Doug Fehan. "The [0.3 mm] is enough of an improvement that we need to find a solution because we only have restrictors that will get us [0.2 mm]."

The C7.Rs were also given an additional seven liters of fuel capacity. The Porsche 911 RSRs did not receive weight or air restrictor changes, but now have eight liters of new fuel capacity.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/last-minute-le-mans-rule-170120311.html

You're right, it was a larger restrictor and it seems they did use a larger one but didn't have one large enough for the .3mm.

It was however the league, not Ford, that decided on the restrictions for the Ford GT and they could have restricted it further if they wanted.

 

[lxmmy]

They received BoP changes at the last minute for that sandbagging too.

In fact they had both a boost restriction(4200-7000 RPM) and a weight restriction.) and that was the league's decision for balancing the cars. Same goes for Ferrari who had a weight restrictions while the Corvette had a weight reduction.



Only one arguing like a child is Ferrari saying that the Ford isn't in the GTE-PRO performance window when their own car kept up with it to the end.

Your username doesn't help the fact you are bias.

So can you explain why Ford wanted to lodge a protest against Ferrari in the last 20 mins of the race for not having functional leader lights? Pretty pathetic when the #68 car having a minute lead over Risi with the #69 car being only 20 seconds behind 2nd. Looked like a desperate attempt to get a 1-2.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Your username doesn't help the fact you are bias.

So can you explain why Ford wanted to lodge a protest against Ferrari in the last 20 mins of the race for not having functional leader lights? Pretty pathetic when the #68 car having a minute lead over Risi with the #69 car being only 20 seconds behind 2nd. Looked like a desperate attempt to get a 1-2.

Can you explain how the Ferrari team decided to not challenge the penalty?

The Stewards upheld its ruling to force Risi to repair its car’s broken leader lights, following a protest lodged by Ford Chip Ganassi Racing in the final hour of the race.

The team has been given a 20-second post-race penalty and 5,000 Euro fine as a result of not adhering to the black-and-orange flag.

A Risi team representative told Sportscar365 they will not appeal the ruling.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/gte-pro-race-winning-ford-gt-penalized-post-race/

My username doesn't change the fact that Ferrari didn't challenge the penalty and would have done the same if they were in Ford's position.

 

[SiriusR]

Looked like a desperate attempt to get a 1-2.

It was the desperate attempt to get a 1-2. :/

 

[lxmmy]

Can you explain how the Ferrari team decided to not challenge the penalty?

Well, they did as they didn't do the pit-stop penalty.

In my eyes, poor sportsmanship by Chip Ganassi.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Well, they did as they didn't do the pit-stop penalty.

In my eyes, poor sportsmanship by Chip Ganassi.

Yet they are refusing to appeal it?

Don't try and play that it wasn't fair when the Risi Team decided it was fair.

This race should be about the cars and drivers anyway, not about BoP changes and stupid penalties like the engine being off when refueling and the light indicators not showing 2nd place.

Both teams drove the crap out of these cars and Ford managed to come out on top in the end.

The only ones that are trying to appeal anything right now is Ferrari, the Risi Team aren't appealing anything.

After all the talk that a V6 TT doesn't belong in a supercar, that engine just powered four cars for 24 hours in the most grueling race in the world and that's honestly amazing.

 

[lxmmy]

Yet they are refusing to appeal it?

Don't try and play that it wasn't fair when the Risi Team decided it was fair.

Why would they appeal to it when they secured second after the penalty has been imposed.

Still doesn't answer my question why would Ford go out their way to try and penalise another car for not having functional lights when it was broad daylight?