2016 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship - Results and TalkTouring Cars 

  • Thread starter Cap'n Jack
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Mclaughlin's reentry was bad, it is to be analyzed in a post-race investigation, even Scotty himself admitted he thought they would be further up the track at that point but Whincup slowed down a lot (in a ridiculous area to do so), he essentially brake-checked Tander trying to redress which Tander couldn't react to (you can see in the replay Whincup hits the brakes pretty hard considering there is a car right behind you).

I don't agree with the GT points either, if Whincup wasn't being a moron about redressing at a terrible place to do so, everything would have been fine. Redressing has never had to be instant in any form of motorsport (at least from the ones i've watched), the thing some people seem to be not understanding is he could have easily continued onto the start/finish straight and done it there since it is a much safer and easier place to do it
 
Great story, especially how it never mentions the lock up from Whincup going in that caused his back end to cut loose and knock Scotty of the track. Scotty had a slight mistake going in Whincup saw an opening from too far back and Scott turned in cause Whincup wasn't the far in to make the pass. The pass was never going to come away clean, he was forcing an issue. And it's sad because as per usual Whincup has the pace, the better strategy, but instead of letting that play out he does this.

Not sure what world he lives in where he has to prove himself a racer of pure pace and not winning based on a superior team in the garage. Hey but I enjoy him throwing out Bathurst wins, just one less thing of the many thing he'll be noted for in Australian racing.

@Tak[TEC] put it best, I felt the redress was pretty much a brake check at that point, and not one to actually respect the rules after Whincup created the issue. Rather it was done to cause further issue I felt.
 
Pete05
Ok, I've kept my mouth shut on this until now but I can't any longer.
First of all, let me say I didn't want Whincup to win today but, the absolute pasting he's received in this thread is a little over the top IMO.
Let's look at the FACTS leading up to the Stewards handing #88 the 15 second penalty.
Please, feel free to watch ALL the replays with an unbiased view.
  • Scotty Mac has a slow run out of Forrest Elbow leaving him vulnerable into The Chase.
  • Whincup sees an opportunity and goes for it, making it past the B-pillar before the cars reach the apex AND before any contact.
  • Scotty Mac turns in anyway resulting in Whincup locking his rear brakes in avoidance which in turn leads to contact.
  • Scotty Mac fires off the track and Whincup slows to redress, pulling over to the extreme left of the circuit as they exit Turn 22 & rejoin Conrod Straight.
  • (This where it gets really interesting) From Tander's in-car camera, you can hear him life off the throttle to avoid the slowing Whincup in front of him before re-opening the throttle and making contact with the rear of the #88 split seconds before he is hit in the RR by the Volvo.
  • Mayhem ensues
  • From the #88 in-car camera, you can hear Whincup open his throttle just before he is bumped by Tander to avoid impeding the progress of Tander.
  • IMO, it looks very much like Tander just wanted to barge his way past both cars split seconds before he is hit by Scotty Mac.
  • Scotty Mac, possibly unsighted, rejoins the track in an unsafe manner and at an unsafe speed.
IMO, how the Stewards didn't rule this as a racing incident is beyond me.
Whincup made EVERY attempt to redress the situation, even if there was the slightest doubt about his involvement and guilt in the whole incident.
What else was the guy supposed to do?
IMO, the Stewards made the decision to award the 15 sec penalty, without having thoroughly reviewed the evidence available.
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Point 1, B-Pillar rule doesn't exist anymore,
Point 2, Buttercup lost control of his vehicle about 5 car lengths behind scotty, contact was inevitable,
Point 3, Buttercup should not have slowed down on the racing line,
Point 4, Buttercup should not have blocked Tander,
Point 5, Scotty should have done better at arresting the speed of the car before rejoining,
Point 6, Tander should not have been so aggressive,
Point 7, final point and the be all and end all of this point rant, Whincup should have kept racing and redressed when told to do so by the governing body,

And a 15 second time penalty for any car involved in that incident is insufficient for all cars involved,
 
I don't think we should put much of the fault on McLaughlin. Stopping a 600BHP+, 1,250KG car with slick tyres on grass is no easy feat. He was a bit too quick, but there was no gurantee Whincup would have redressed, so he obviously kept some speed as to not lose the gap. And if we pretend that the crash (Tander, McLaughlin and Whincup's) didn't happen, Whincup probably wouldn't have been penalized for the contact at The Chase, so of course McLaughlin kept some speed up. Also, where he rejoined wasn't and issue. What caused the crash was Whincup slowing, effectively baulking Tander, then blocking him so he didn't get passed, Tander attempted to not hit Whincup, but didn't see McLaughlin in his mirror as he was presumably in the blind spot, and next thing you know, there's a crash.

This one is on Whincup. No doubt.
 
At Sandown, the redressing by Giz and Fabian, were done on the front straight. Whincup could have waited after the last corner, because if he was aware of Scottie, he was aware of Tander, whom, he just passed. Plus, he slowed right on the exit racing line.

Anyway, dumb of VASC to change the ruling again. Just keep it as pitlane drive thru if the driver gets bumped off track or turned around or both. However, bump and runs should be allowed. These cars can handle door to door racing.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Hey but I enjoy him throwing out Bathurst wins, just one less thing of the many thing he'll be noted for in Australian racing.
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Three years, and three of the dumbest mistakes in racing - ignoring you team and running out of fuel, passing the safety car, and now a sloppy rejoin. It's like he's trying to find new and exciting ways of screwing up.
 
NW48
I don't think we should put much of the fault on McLaughlin. Stopping a 600BHP+, 1,250KG car with slick tyres on grass is no easy feat. He was a bit too quick, but there was no gurantee Whincup would have redressed, so he obviously kept some speed as to not lose the gap. And if we pretend that the crash (Tander, McLaughlin and Whincup's) didn't happen, Whincup probably wouldn't have been penalized for the contact at The Chase, so of course McLaughlin kept some speed up. Also, where he rejoined wasn't and issue. What caused the crash was Whincup slowing, effectively baulking Tander, then blocking him so he didn't get passed, Tander attempted to not hit Whincup, but didn't see McLaughlin in his mirror as he was presumably in the blind spot, and next thing you know, there's a crash.

This one is on Whincup. No doubt.
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Comment is rather bipolar, you said that Mclaughlin might not have had a choice in stoppinf the car and then went on to defend his choice of keeping speed when off the course.

IMO, You shouldn't carry enough speed to not lose time or keep up at all when off course. That could been seen as corner cutting, especially since Whincup had to give up his position for Mclaughlin.

Not to mention, plenty of drivers do the same thing as before so Mclaughlin could've been able to slow down the car.
 
RESHIRAM5
Comment is rather bipolar, you said that Mclaughlin might not have had a choice in stoppinf the car and then went on to defend his choice of keeping speed when off the course
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If he tried to stop the car, he may have spun at that speed, especially if he'd locked the rear wheels, hence why I defended his choice of keeping the speed up.
 
prisonermonkeys
Three years, and three of the dumbest mistakes in racing - ignoring you team and running out of fuel, passing the safety car, and now a sloppy rejoin. It's like he's trying to find new and exciting ways of screwing up.
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I think he's trying to find a post-race career money maker. So he's going to make a new Australian Board game called "Toss away the Win", where this is indeed the exact goal, finding inventive ways to toss said win away.
 
TDZdave
http://www.supercars.com/news/championship/mclaughlin-penalised-for-re-enter/?sf38400495=1

An appropriate penalty for bonehead behaviour, Whincup still got off way to lenient,
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You know here's the difference, a guy like Whincup goes about not seeing how he could be penalized at all. And then you see Scotty, realizes after he made a mistake and knows it. Feels bad for it and shows some integrity. Now while this has nothing to do with their penalties, I feel it's worth noting for those defending JW. Especially as I've said and others, they were on different strats, Whincup had it, there was absolutely no damn reason for that stupid move.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
You know here's the difference, a guy like Whincup goes about not seeing how he could be penalized at all. And then you see Scotty, realizes after he made a mistake and knows it. Feels bad for it and shows some integrity. Now while this has nothing to do with their penalties, I feel it's worth noting for those defending JW. Especially as I've said and others, they were on different strats, Whincup had it, there was absolutely no damn reason for that stupid move.
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What makes me salty is that all drivers played an equal part in the result, Scotty wad already punished by not being able to complete the race properly then takes a penalty on top of that, whereas Whincup got a pathetic penalty, and his championship campaign remains more or less the same,
 
I'm going to start of by saying I am an avid fan of Scott Mclaughlin. By the same token I despise Jamie Whincup (Personal reasons) So please keep this in mind and please try to refrain from lynching me simply for having an opinion and observation of my own on this incident.

As you can probably imagine I saw red and immediately cursed Whincup on my TV. Upon hearing all drivers involved and seeing the incident a few times I have deduced that this incident was of 2 parts.

Scotty Mac makes a mistake at Forest Elbow and Whincup gets a run on him. whincup decides to go for a pass at the chase into but is too far back for it to come off cleanly. This is where I ask you to think about Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton at the RedBull Ring or Nico Rosberg vs Max Verstappen in Hockenheim Both occasions Nico Rosberg ran the other car as far off the track as he could before making the turn himself. His aggressive signature move this season. Had Jamie kept on as he was a similar situation would have happened. Scott was already run wide and simply had to turn in. He gave Jamie plenty of room. In Whincup's defence he knew that albeit a little too late he was not going to get the pass done and locked his rear brakes, still making contact with scotty mac and knocking him off track. That is part one

Part 2. The redress. What was whincup thinking? On the racing line decides to brake. I know what he was thinking. I have just caused an incident and I feel guilty about it, but IF #33 recovers I can redress and not lose track position to car #2 by holding him up.
I do agree that the rejoin of SM was aggressive and a little unsafe. It's not at all a question of getting the car stopped on grass. The least he could have done is just rolled off the throttle and lived to fight another day.

This combination lead to the tangle of these 3 drivers. This could have been so easily avoided. However my conclusion is this. None of this would have happened if Whincup had used his head and not gone for that silly dive in the first place.

The person I felt sorry for most was Tander. For all he knew Whincup could've damaged his car from the contact Scotty Mac and that's why he jumped on the brakes. So naturally he wanted to get on with his race and simply wont have seen car #33

That is my observation and I totally believe I have ben fair in my thoughts of what happened
 
I'm a massive Scotty fan and I jumped out of my seat cursing Whincup when he pulled that move but as soon as I saw that Volvo flat out across the grass I knew Scotty was in the wrong as well from there everything went south. I agree with everything @DRIFT4EVA said it all could have been avoided if Whincup had waited he knew he was the quickest car all weekend. He most likely would have won had he waited to make the move at a better opportunity.
 
Complete idiotic move from Whincup with the initial overtake "attempt" and the slow movement off the corner. For Scotty, he was end of the day trying to rejoin and messed it up.
 
Same could be said about Whincup, immediate redress though. If Scott slowed when off course then the redress would be completely fine as Tander would have managed to over take Whincup after a few bumps. Whincup probably thought that Scottie would slow down since he did go off course and thought it would be better to do it now then later.

Granted I don't like the logic (nor Scotties logic).

I'm in the camp of GT being the only victim. Jamie Whincup wasn't the only one who made a boneheaded move in this situation, IMO.
 
I do not want to take the spotlight off the current conversation as I am finding it intriguing and informative. However...

I am a Kiwi, currently living in the UK. October next year I will be headed back to New Zealand for a holiday and for my 30th Birthday to be with friends and family. As part of this trip I will be making the hop over to Australia for a round of V8s. I want to ask those of you on here who have been to Bathurst or The gold coast or both. I have always wanted to go to the gold coast, but I cannot ignore the allure and magic of bathurst. What is the average cost of a weekend at either?
Which worked out cheaper over the course of the weekend (Camping at Bathurst)?
Which is the better experience?
At Bathurst, Does the track open up again for public use straight away? Would love to take a commodore around there!
Any help greatly appreciated
 
RESHIRAM5
Don't start that kindergarten style argument of "he started it" :lol:. He started it but Mclaughlin retaliated just as poorly they both deserved punishment.
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He didn't retaliate he said he didn't realize they'd be right there when he rejoined. He expected them to be up the way and him having to catch up. Instead Whincup thought it was fine time to redress in the corner exit and nearly brake check Tander who had slowed up but didn't realize he needed to slow up that much. Tander's initial slow down was in respect to Whincup's lost pace from hitting Scotty, no where did he expect a poorly constituted redress. So yes it was all started by Whincup in both situations and only hampered further due to a somewhat poor decision on Scotty for assuming a bit more than he should have.

Once again, one of the men aren't like the other I'll give you a moment to figure out which one.
 
I've seen the McLaughlin-Tander-Whincup several times and it doesn't get any easier to watch. Tander and McLaughlin are two of my ALL TIME favourite drivers and to see both of them crash in the same accident is heartbreaking. Whincup deserved the time penalty and I can't say otherwise. I want to say some rather nasty things about him but I won't because it simply wouldn't be appropriate. But you get the idea.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
He didn't retaliate he said he didn't realize they'd be right there when he rejoined. He expected them to be up the way and him having to catch up. Instead Whincup thought it was fine time to redress in the corner exit and nearly brake check Tander who had slowed up but didn't realize he needed to slow up that much. Tander's initial slow down was in respect to Whincup's lost pace from hitting Scotty, no where did he expect a poorly constituted redress. So yes it was all started by Whincup in both situations and only hampered further due to a somewhat poor decision on Scotty for assuming a bit more than he should have.

Once again, one of the men aren't like the other I'll give you a moment to figure out which one.
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Wrong word, I meant in the lines of responded to the situation. In racing you got to expect a lot of possibilities, Mclaughlin decision to not lose speed on the inside portion off road because he didn't expect them to be there is rather boneheaded in itself.

Now it isn't the same as Whincup, I agree. Whincup easily had more oppurtunities to redress but instead he redressed on the exit, he knew all the possibilities but his sheer impatient made him choose a horrible spot.
 
RESHIRAM5
Wrong word, I meant in the lines of responded to the situation. In racing you got to expect a lot of possibilities, Mclaughlin decision to not lose speed on the inside portion off road because he didn't expect them to be there is rather boneheaded in itself.
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Which is redundant to mention at this point as a defensive argument as you continue to do, because Scotty and those upset with Whincup all agree it was boneheaded but see why he thought this. It was a racing decision on his part and it worked against him, that's pretty much agreed upon.

Now it isn't the same as Whincup, I agree. Whincup easily had more oppurtunities to redress but instead he redressed on the exit, he knew all the possibilities but his sheer impatient made him choose a horrible spot.
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Yeah the same eagerness that saw this incident start and still be a stigma by fans and crew twenty-four hours after the race, see where there seems to be a continual problem with a multiple championship winning driver not having any leash to be checked with. Also perhaps, it's possible that his team is as good at strategics as he is driving...thus maybe just maybe he should listen to them and then he wont toss wins.
 
Thought I would buy into this argument. Being a massive Mclaughlin fan, there was no doubt I was livid watching it live and for the rest of the race, but watching it back and reading the explanation of the appeal, I have a feeling there is a genuine chance Red Bull could win. The whole sequence was a fairly shocking display of driving standards but it is understandable given the stakes. My opinion is that Tander is the only 'innocent' one of the 3 as he was simply trying to take advantage of a slow Whincup. As much as it pains me to say it, Whincup was simply abiding by the rules and redressing and McLaughlin came back on the track about 40 ks too quick. Of course, this whole debacle would not have happened had Jamie just waited. He would have known Scott was low on fuel and it's not as if Jamie was short of pace; that stint where he was putting in consistent 6s was incredible to watch. The bottom line is, V8Supercars themselves have created this issue due to their lack of clear explanation on the rule. They would be very brave to take the trophy off Tekno...
 
Remember how Whincup lost the 2013 race by trying out brake Frosty at Turn 2? Frosty knew it wouldn't work. Whincup said he had to have a crack. Whincup could have had a crack at the elbow , the chase and last turn back then. He nearly went into the fence to pass.

There were 10 laps to go this time. Why try to risk it then with a stronger car? RBRA messed up his strategy and once again, all or nothing.
 

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