2017 Formula 1 Rolex Australian Grand PrixFormula 1

[05XR8]

I recall a major justification of the refueling ban was for reasons of cost-savings. Surely that reason still applies.

I would like to see the following:
Steel brakes

3.5 liter n/a V-8's, V-10's and V-12's, with weight breaks accorded to the simpler engines.

Maximum weight 1350 lbs,

An aero formula that would permit nose to tail racing with no detriment to handling or tire wear. If that means wedge noses and lip spoilers, so be it.

Have I got the series for you!

 

[TRGTspecialist]

You have to remember that the other available strategic element was the amount of fuel they carried on the cars at the start of the race, as well as how much they loaded onto the car at each stop.

So even if 2 cars had the same number of stops, fuel adds a second variable (and really a third, considering the different tire compounds).

A car can start heavy or light, and run heavy or light in the successive stints.

I'm not advocating for re-fueling, but rather pointing out that there was more to it, since fuel is a constant in today's state, with all cars beginning the race on their respective full load.

But you also forget that not every car starts on the same fuel, for example you could have 5 cars all doing a 3 stop strategy but they are never on similar fuel loads till the last stint(some may start heavy and only top up fuel a Little so the pit stop isn't long while others might go low to keep the race pace fast) pit stop count doesn't give the full story like how the tyres do now.

So even if they are doing a Similar strategy in pit stop count they can all have variance on top of that, the level of strategy far exceeds what we are seeing now which is more limited to under and overcut on tyres and saving a bit of fuel in the race to be lighter.

Look at this example on starting fuel loads at the 2009 German GP: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/...strong-position-german-grand-prix-fuel-loads/

Oh yeah I realise there was more to it than pit stop counts, my point was just to show that strategies on a high level appeared to be much the same - so the only source of variation you could argue would be in the detailed elements.......and as I said I don't buy the idea that differeing fuel loads alone was adding such a significant dimension to the strategy. Or at the least, what it did add to strategy for me didn't make up for the effects it had on the style of racing. But since this is subjective (or at least I haven't thought of another spreadsheet I could make for that yet ) we'll agree to disagree on that.

It flies in the face of F1's pursuit (which is not great racing).

I don't think it's really possible to make any sort of "this is F1's pursuit/this is what F1 is about" type argument because pretty much any "rule" you can come up with will disqualify some previous period from being "proper F1".

The most anyone could say imo is "F1 should be considered by its fans as the pinnacle of open-wheel motorsport" - and accept that how that's reached has changed, and probably will keep changing over time.

 

[TenEightyOne]

as I said I don't buy the idea that differeing fuel loads alone was adding such a significant dimension to the strategy.

And, further to that, there were often races where the real for-position racing didn't start until everybody had played out their early fuel strategies.

 

[Simmpa]

They have the badge of the company who "builds the engine" as opposed to the company who finances and engineers the engines.

Like when McLaren had Porsche engines in the 1980s but were listed as McLaren-TAG in the constructors table.

This is really confusing so the engines are not Renault at all?

 

[Clark]

They are Renault engines in everything but name.

 

[TenEightyOne]

This is really confusing so the engines are not Renault at all?

After Red Bull's hissy-fit over the performance of Renault they finally agreed to keep the engines (after unsuccessfully exploring other supply options) but they don't carry the name.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

After Red Bull's hissy-fit over the performance of Renault they finally agreed to keep the engines (after unsuccessfully exploring other supply options) but they don't carry the name.

And if they were to go back on their word and start calling it a Renault engine again, it would be like admitting defeat with their tail between their legs. Which they obviously won't do any time soon.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And it spares Renault the ignominy of having the works team beaten by a customer team.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

What do you guys think is the best race in China? I want to watch a good one in hyping up for this weekend to see where the good racing spots are and what not.

 

[Jimlaad43]

The wet ones, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010

 

[zed300]

There were some pit fires, yes, and that's obviously dangerous but out of all the fuel stops made 1994-2009 I wouldn't say that there were enough for it to be "a lot".

I can think of maybe 5 off the top of my head. And the most significant one, Verstappen's, was because Benetton knowingly removed a safety filter to make the refuel process 10% faster.

The pit fires were especially dangerous, because the fuel they used had an invisible flame.
The Benetton was engulfed in flames and the driver was frantically trying to get out. One of the pit recognized it after a couple of secs, but the refueling days were numbered after that.

 

[Dennisch]

The pit fires were especially dangerous, because the fuel they used had an invisible flame.
The Benetton was engulfed in flames and the driver was frantically trying to get out. One of the pit recognized it after a couple of secs, but the refueling days were numbered after that.

If you look real close you can see the flames.

 

[Liquid]

One of the pit recognized [the Benetton] after a couple of secs, but the refueling days were numbered after that.

For what it's worth that fire happened the year refuelling was reintroduced; in 1994. Refuelling carried on for 15 years after that.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Why do we want refuelling back? 2 second pitstops are amazing to watch, the DHL Pitstop award has been brought on to award one of the most impressive pieces of coordinated teamwork in any sport, why lose it?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Why do we want refuelling back?

Because people are convinced that it's a silver bullet that will magically make racing exciting again. How quickly people forget that refuelling turns racing into a glorified time trial, with drivers preferring to drive to a predetermined lap time without attempting passing, safe in the knowledge that doing so will see them make up positions during the stops.

 

[Peter.]

The pit fires were especially dangerous, because the fuel they used had an invisible flame.
The Benetton was engulfed in flames and the driver was frantically trying to get out. One of the pit recognized it after a couple of secs, but the refueling days were numbered after that.

Wrong open wheel sport. You're thinking of CART that used alcohol fuel which burned invisibly.

 

[zed300]

Ahhh my bad, the memory ain't what it used to be.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The Benetton was engulfed in flames and the driver was frantically trying to get out

That bit of the "incident" you've remembered would be Verstappen in the Benetton... but at the time (as now) the drivers had to demonstrate they could leave the car within a certain number of seconds. Verstappen definitely managed that

 

[ukfan758]

Wrong open wheel sport. You're thinking of CART that used alcohol fuel which burned invisibly.

Some more examples of the dangers of alochol fires:

 

[Jimlaad43]

Invisible Fire sounds like a perfect reason to never use Alcohol fuels. If car manufacturers don't use Magnesium because of the problems it has when it's on fire, why do they keep using methanol?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Invisible Fire sounds like a perfect reason to never use Alcohol fuels. If car manufacturers don't use Magnesium because of the problems it has when it's on fire, why do they keep using methanol?

Cause fast!

 

[IforceV8]

Indycar uses E85 ethanol and gasoline which burns blue.

Maybe we should focus on how dangerous it is to have 22 people standing in a hot pitlane doing the job that should only take 6.💡

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Indycar uses E85 ethanol and gasoline which burns blue.

Maybe we should focus on how dangerous it is to have 22 people standing in a hot pitlane doing the job that should only take 6.💡

From what I see there is about five or six, and potentially an add on with the track official.

 

[Jimlaad43]

From what I see there is about five or six, and potentially an add on with the track official.

He's talking about F1.

2 second pitstops are beautiful to watch.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He's talking about F1.

2 second pitstops are beautiful to watch.

Then yeah that's a better question at most there are 14. Yet there can be more due to the rubber marbles the car collects in the various aero pieces as well as aero adjustments. Also we should keep in mind that this many are in place because each car gets a very large pit box compared to being stacked nearly nose to tail in Indy or NASCAR type series and others like VASC.

At most in this current season you'd expect 10 cars at once, but realistically there is enough room for these guy to work on one car with another stacked (from the same team) behind it, while another team is servicing their car.

 

[IforceV8]

Its hard to count heads in the 2nd one but I see 20.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Its hard to count heads in the 2nd one but I see 20.

Yeah as I said a standard stop would have 3 for each tire, the lollipop mechanic, the rear mechanic with the starter. The extra guys are for removing debris, which isn't necessary all the time, but probably used just in case. So at the least 14, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets up to 20 or more.

The top video shows 21, the second one has 23, I played it a few times have .25x speed to count them all.

 

[Vinylshark]

Its hard to count heads in the 2nd one but I see 20.

Second video got already blocked

About the number of pit crew members. Felipe Massa posted once a photo on his Facebook page with every position named.

1. Front jack
2. Front wing adjuster
3. Tyre off
4. Tyre gunner
5. Tyre on
6. Stabilizer
7. Tyre off
8. Tyre gunner
9. Tyre on
10. Ignition
11. Rear jack
12. Tyre on
13. Stand by gun
14. Tyre gunner
15. Tyre off
16. Tyre warmer
17. Stabilizer
18. Tyre on
19. Tyre gunner
20. Tyre off
21. Lollipop man
22. Front wing adjuster

Edit: just now realized it's not only the pit crew members that got listed

 

[IforceV8]

The top video shows 21

22 actually @36 sec mark, a second rear jack man shows up and wants to play too.

22-23 guys doing the work of 6 all in a glorified time trial. Talk about grasping at straws for something exciting.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

22 actually @36 sec mark, a second rear jack man shows up and wants to play too.

22-23 guys doing the work of 6 all in a glorified time trial. Talk about grasping at straws for something exciting.

I agree with you that it's too much, but as I said I think it's with in safety since they also get the special treatment when it comes to pit box size relative to other series.