2019/20 Premier League & General Football Discussion

[Famine]

Aubameyang won a penalty

*eye twitches*


Anyway, the Wednesday penalty is nonsensical.

Firstly, this season is still going on. Sure it ought to have ended in May, but it didn't. So the penalty should be for this season.
Secondly, why did it take nine bastard months to come up with this? Yep, we can excuse March-June because COVID lockdown, but how did it take from November 2019 when the EFL charged us to at least March 20th without resolving it?
Thirdly, our executive team - Dejphon Chansiri, Katrien Meire, and John Redgate - was already exonerated by the EFL on March 20 from any wrongdoing constituting an "aggravated breach" of the regulations; the independent panel also cleared us of an aggravated breach.

This all begs the question of exactly what it is we have been found guilty of. The issue centres on us selling our stadium to a company also owned by Chansiri, for around £60m, in order not fall foul of Financial Fair Play regulations (no more than a total £39m loss over any three consecutive seasons)... which EFL rules permit. So that's not the problem by itself.

There is a question of when it was sold. The sale appears in the 2017-2018 returns, but these were submitted a month late - in July 2019 - resulting in a soft transfer embargo. In order to fit into the 2017-2018 FY returns, the sale must have been conducted on or before April 5 2018; no actual money appears to have changed hands, which is odd and I suppose makes it hard to say when it happened, but it does appear to fit the letter regulations.

Now, if Wednesday sold the stadium after April 5 2018 and pretended it was before to fit into the returns, that's a breach. It's also an aggravated breach - it's Chansiri intending to fool the EFL in order to escape sanctions... but Chansiri has been exonerated of an aggravated breach by the EFL, and Wednesday by the independent panel. So, what exactly have we been found guilty of? I have no idea.


Reading, Aston Villa, and Derby County have all also sold their stadia to umbrella companies owned by their clubs' owners - Villa Park sold at roughly the same value as Hillsborough did, and they are equivalent stadia, but to avoid over £100m of losses in one season for their promotion to the Premier League; that's exactly why the Championship has FFP regulations - to avoid clubs spending huge amounts to get to the Premier League, failing, and going into administration. EFL is not investigating Aston Villa; the Premier League (which doesn't allow these stadium sales) did, and in March okayed it.

If it's not the sale (which was allowed), the value (which is appropriate), or the timing (which it can't be if Chansiri is not guilty)... what actually is it?


Wigan's points deduction is phenomenally stupid. The EFL did no diligence AT ALL on the new owner before okaying a sale to a man who doesn't even exist at a company in the Philippines, despite knowing that there was betting in the Philippines on Wigan's relegation. The EFL did not do its job, and Wigan are down 12pt for it - and relegated? **** off.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Eddie Howe has left Bournemouth by mutual consent.

 

[Famine]

If it's not the sale (which was allowed), the value (which is appropriate), or the timing (which it can't be if Chansiri is not guilty)... what actually is it?

So... pretty stupidly the 12 point deduction is for breaching FFP (or technically "profit and sustainability"), which allows for a maximum loss of £39m across any three consecutive seasons. Wednesday lost £9.7m in 2015-2016, and £20.7m in 2016-2017, and would have made a loss of £35.4m for 2017-2018 if not for the sale of Hillsborough. It looks like the panel has decided that although we included the sale of Hillsborough in the 2017-2018 accounts, we shouldn't have and have thus breached FFP by about £25m.

That begs several questions about why we shouldn't have, and why it's not an "aggravated breach" if we did something we shouldn't have done in order to pretend we hadn't broken a different rule, but I digress. It's been imposed for the 2020-2021 season because June 30 is technically the cutoff date for the season even though it's still being played, and the decision arrived after that...

Villa lost £70m in one season (the 2018-2019 season) to get back to the Premier League, which is exactly what the P&S rules are supposed to prevent. And they sold their ground to themselves to get around it. This breaks both the EFL's P&S rules and the Premier League's FFP rules (only the EFL permits the stadium sales), but the EFL hasn't investigated it and the PL has but found no case to answer...

Meanwhile - as hinted by Barnsley's rather terse statement - a bunch of other Championship clubs are also in breach of P&S, but are using Coronavirus as an excuse to say they couldn't sell players (because the season was still going) and player values have dropped, so they can't balance the books...

 

[MUSC4EVER]

So the domestic league season and cups have been won and done, there is still the Champions League and Europa League to be completed which will happen from Wednesday.

Time for next seasons thread??

 

[redhed17]

So the domestic league season and cups have been won and done, there is still the Champions League and Europa League to be completed which will happen from Wednesday.

Time for next seasons thread??

But the season isn't over!

 

[Jimlaad43]

Fulham have been promoted to the Premier League after beating Brentford in the Playoff final 2-1, with all three goals in Extra time.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

First 90 minutes were boring as both teams cancelled each other out and tried to play it safe, fantastic free kick from Joe Bryan and then a brilliantly worked goal finished by Bryan again to put Fulham 2-0 up before Brentford got one back deep into added time in extra time but Fulham get promoted after just one season away.

Congrats to them and full credit to Scott Parker who has done a great job.

 

[redhed17]

I wanted Brentford to win, just to see someone new in the Premier League. Fulham seem to be up and down all the time. Great opportunist goal from Bryan though to score from the free kick. 👍

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Premier League shareholders meeting took place today where all twenty clubs were represented including the three newly promoted teams, they have voted against teams using five substitutes per game next season, clubs will return to using three per match from seven on the bench.

It seems to be all kicking off at Arsenal, you may remember that a majority of their first team players agreed a 12.5% wage cut a while ago to help the club financially during the enforced break, the players were given reassurances that there wont be any redundancies at the club because of the wage cut, yesterday however Arsenal announced 55 redundancies mostly in the scouting department, this is also off the back of the fact that they have a player who has featured in five months who is on £350k a week and they are close to agreeing a new deal for Aubameyang for around £250k a week, Arsenal players are upset and angry and want a meeting with maybe the owners.

 

[88GTA]

What was the reasoning for not wanting 5 subs per game?

 

[yas]

It seems to be all kicking off at Arsenal, you may remember that a majority of their first team players agreed a 12.5% wage cut a while ago to help the club financially during the enforced break, the players were given reassurances that there wont be any redundancies at the club because of the wage cut, yesterday however Arsenal announced 55 redundancies mostly in the scouting department, this is also off the back of the fact that they have a player who has featured in five months who is on £350k a week and they are close to agreeing a new deal for Aubameyang for around £250k a week, Arsenal players are upset and angry and want a meeting with maybe the owners.

Well now, who needs a scouting network when you only sign Kia J's players - he is your scouting network... It is pretty bad when players were prompted to do this so nobody loses their job.

Aubameyang is well worth those money. Hopefully some sort of resolution will be found for the Ozil situation as it helps nobody involved.

 

[redhed17]

I'm glad sense won out, and the 5 subs to try and limit injuries because of the short preparation time before the restart, has reverted back to normal.

What was the reasoning for not wanting 5 subs per game?

I would assume having the option to put on 5 subs favours the more wealthy teams, because they should have more strength in depth. Also, having the option to change half a team takes away some of the skill of choosing a team for the start of the game imho.

There have been some changes to the way VAR will implemented as well, but time will tell on that.

 

[88GTA]

David Silva is expected to sign a 3 year contract with Lazio on Monday after being with Man City since 2010. Rumor has it his new contract will include bonuses which include the use of a private jet for trips back to his family in Spain and a driver to take him around Rome.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Sarri was sacked by Juventus earlier today, this is following from Juve's exit in the Champions League at the hands of Lyon last night. Sarri was only in charge for last season where he won Serie A, Pochettino is heavy favorite for the job and I've heard Andrea Pirlo is in temporary charge, Pirlo only took a job as Juve under 23s manager last week.

Jason Tindall has been appointed new Bournemouth boss, Tindall was Eddie Howe's assistant.

 

[redhed17]

Sarri was sacked by Juventus earlier today, this is following from Juve's exit in the Champions League at the hands of Lyon last night. Sarri was only in charge for last season where he won Serie A, Pochettino is heavy favorite for the job and I've heard Andrea Pirlo is in temporary charge, Pirlo only took a job as Juve under 23s manager last week.

Shows how mad being a manager can be, even winning the league is not good enough. I'd think twice about taking that job. Good chance they would win their league again, but having to do that as well as do well in the Champion's League is pressure you don't need.

I think the money would be good though.

Pochettino! What for his Champions League experience, certainly not for his history of success.

Jason Tindall has been appointed new Bournemouth boss, Tindall was Eddie Howe's assistant.

Madness. It's like when Everton put Ferguson in charge after Marco Silva got sacked, he was part of the reason Everton were playing so bad and Silva got sacked, so why the hell would you put someone in charge who had been an integral part of the problems! Tindall seems the same. You promote from within when you're successful, not from failure an relegation imho. Good luck to him, but you would think the way he wants the team to play would not be too far from the way Howe had them playing, and we know how that turned out.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Andrea Pirlo has got the Juventus job and not on interim basis either its a permanent deal as he signed a two-year contract.

Pirlo was only appointed the under-23 manager on 30th July!

 

[redhed17]

Andrea Pirlo has got the Juventus job and not on interim basis either its a permanent deal as he signed a two-year contract.

Pirlo was only appointed the under-23 manager on 30th July!

If he doesn't win the Champion's League, he may not last one year, never mind two.

 

[88GTA]

I think Pirlo is just a band-aid to get them to next year when Zidane will come in. Pochettino or any experienced manager would have wanted a big salary and demands for player changes. With Pirlo, they get someone who accepts he will get no reinforcements and will try to just man manage their aging squad. He probably won't do better or worse than Sarri would have. You could have Ronaldo as player manager and they would probably still win the league next year.

They don't have time for a revolution so they are just trying to get through a season that starts in about a month.

 

[redhed17]

He probably won't do better or worse than Sarri would have. You could have Ronaldo as player manager and they would probably still win the league next year.

When they won the league by 1 point, even with Ronaldo, I wouldn't assume too much.

They don't have time for a revolution so they are just trying to get through a season that starts in about a month.

If you knew you were getting rid of Sarri, then you have the next person lined up, especially because of the short time between seasons. Maybe that is Pirlo, but if not, you run the risk of harming Pirlo's potential management career if you need to replace him because things are going really bad, and then the new person will have limited options to change, but be expected to to improve. And if they don't improve, they could lose their job at the end of the season (or before) too, and that is potentially two or more managers in one season. Maybe that could happen with a planned more long term appointment, but if expectations are managed, a dip in form can ridden out like Lampard with the transfer ban bringing through the younger players, which could have gone quite badly. Harder to manage expectations as Champion's though. But if you are parting company with managers after winning the league, it hints that of a club who may have amazing confidence in their organisation, and/or have unrealistic expectations imho. Changing managers and continuing to win things worked for Chel$ki, until it didn't. Seemed to coincide with the Abramovic tightening of the purse strings. Odd that.

Maybe be Pirlo will do well, and is the man for years to come. And he may even help them to win the Champion's League. There is pressure on whoever is in charge to make it 10 league titles in a row for Juventus though. Lose the league, go out early in the Champion's League, and there could be another manager or two by this time next year.

Saying all the above is from an outsider knowing nothing of the 'politics' of Italian football, and Juventus in particular.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

A few transfer stories today, mostly about Sancho in which there have been some developments, but nothing has really changed.

Man United had a deadline of 10th August to sign Sancho from Dortmund, which is today...and there have been no bids or talks today or anything, Dortmund gave United the deadline so Sancho could take part in pre-season and today Sancho was training with Dortmund in Switzerland, their sporting director Michael Zorc spoke to some reporters and said that he has extended Sancho's contract to 2023 and might have give him a wage increase, he also said that he was staying at Dortmund, he also said similar things about Aubameyang and Dembele before they were sold, and there is still two months of the window left, so I don't think anything has really changed.

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is having a medical at Tottenham ahead of a £15 million move from Southampton, seem like a bit of a bargain that one.

 

[Jimlaad43]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53776036
Willian moves from Chelsea to Arsenal on a free

 

[daan]

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is having a medical at Tottenham ahead of a £15 million move from Southampton, seem like a bit of a bargain that one.

That's a steal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53776036
Willian moves from Chelsea to Arsenal on a free

That's a steal.

 

[Phoenix]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53776036
Willian moves from Chelsea to Arsenal on a free

Thats gonna be popular in the London derbies.

 

[Liquid]

Thats gonna be popular in the London derbies.

Gallas, Cech, Luiz...

Arsenal just seem to love Chelsea veterans.

FYI: As far as domestic English football is concerned, the 2019/20 season is all but over. The only major game left is the Football League Trophy final which has been postponed with no rescheduled date at this moment.

PREMIER LEAGUE

2019/20 WINNERS: LIVERPOOL

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FA CUP

2019/20 WINNERS: ARSENAL

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FOOTBALL LEAGUE CUP

2019/20 WINNERS: MANCHESTER CITY

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ENGLISH SUPER CUP

2019/20 WINNERS: MANCHESTER CITY

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FOOTBALL LEAGUE TROPHY

2019/20 WINNERS: TBC​

You can find the 2020/21 season thread here.