2020 NASCAR Discussion ThreadNASCAR 

  • Thread starter Dylan
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Still find it funny the level of rage at Kyle doing this yet I didn't see this back when Cup drivers were doing this full time and taking championships from series regulars(Looking at you, Harvick).

Let's be Frank here: The whole nonsense about Cup drivers in Lower series solely exists because people are judging it based on something the series never was in the first place. The Grand National Series was NEVER a latter series (Same goes for the Truck Series. Hell, it was a running joke that the Truck Series was just a series for Retired Cup drivers or cup rejects). To compare this to F2 is beyond hyperbolic and nonsensical because F2 (Or GP2 as I properly remember it) was created as a latter series in the first place (Same goes for F2000, Formula Atlantics and even something like IMSA Lites).
 
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Kyle said himself that he's done with the series when he gets to win number 100. He's at 97 now so it won't be too much longer before before everyone doesn't have anything to complain about and root for Dale Jr to dominate his one Xfinity race per year.
 
RACECAR
Still find it funny the level of rage at Kyle doing this yet I didn't see this back when Cup drivers were doing this full time and taking championships from series regulars(Looking at you, Harvick).

Let's be Frank here: The whole nonsense about Cup drivers in Lower series solely exists because people are judging it based on something the series never was in the first place. The Grand National Series was NEVER a latter series (Same goes for the Truck Series. Hell, it was a running joke that the Truck Series was just a series for Retired Cup drivers or cup rejects). To compare this to F2 is beyond hyperbolic and nonsensical because F2 (Or GP2 as I properly remember it) was created as a latter series in the first place (Same goes for F2000, Formula Atlantics and even something like IMSA Lites).
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Lots of people have a problem with Harvick, Keselowski, Logano, basically anyone driving for a top team doing this. All of those aforementioned drivers, and Kyle Busch especially, have nothing to prove in that series and are basically just taking up wins and resources from more deserving (and less controversial) drivers. Granted Junior gets a pass because A: He only does this once a year, usually as a throwback and nothing else. B: He has no prospects of ever returning to the Cup series. Maybe the others should take that as a hint and either give up the cup career or limit themselves to on race a year.
 
AMPMROCKETFANN
Lots of people have a problem with Harvick, Keselowski, Logano, basically anyone driving for a top team doing this. All of those aforementioned drivers, and Kyle Busch especially, have nothing to prove in that series and are basically just taking up wins and resources from more deserving (and less controversial) drivers.
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While true, again its never really officially been a step latter series like the ones I mentioned. They've only been band-aiding and patching it the last ten or so years and marketed that way because of all the complaining (and lets be honest, partly because "HEY GUYS, REDNECK JESUS 2.0 IS HERE" in the case of both Austin Dillon and Chase Elliot, both of which because the power of the letter E) With the only real measure being the limiting of how many races Cup drivers can do and at best its kinda phoned in and not all that effective outside of already being a development driver when you think about it, assuming you even make there and still are one. Couple that with again the whole Cup driver preference over a new face for sponsors as well as the fact that its not even mostly of new faces, but of guys who've either long left Cup and are just stuck there or of the same ole' regulars consisting of the same shoestring teams or the same start & Parkers(Also, Mike Harmon because apparently thieves are still allowed to compete I guess) and its frankly hard for me to agree that they are or should only be for new talent (Seriously, is that family team of Jeremy Clements EVEN considering Cup ever?) . If these really should be just for new talent and not for Buschwhackers/Homewreckers or whatever the hell thy call them now (I guess "TV Sappers", which would technically be correct because of how much Both the networks AND Sponsors love their Cup drivers), then I suggest a far more radical approach provided NASCAR would have the balls to do it: Scrap it and rebuild it from scratch. Many suggest banning Cup drivers outright but because of how NASCAR has basically allowed Sponsors to determine so much for so long, that in itself would be a huge mess due to again the Cup star draw Sponsors prefer (Remember Dollar General leaving Burney Lamar for Kevin Harvick? Z-line Designs leaving Kevin Conway for Kyle Busch?). Sure Names like Sadler sorta are known (Helps that he was a cup driver at one time) but I have to ask (At least before this pandemic happened): How people could name or remember any driver from JUST those series and not a Cup driver that are in those series? Sure people will remember the two series but for which reason, the drivers specific to those championships or because the Cup drivers that dominated them? I get it, there are fans that would actually like their Christopher Bells or Justin Haleys to actually have wins and not have it basically out of their hand by a country mile for the trillionth time, but at the same time to pretend that this is supposed to a feeder series when it never was in the first place and with a sanctioning body that itself clearly cares more about the people in the top series then they do about anyone below is at this point screaming at a wall expecting it to move (Though its nothing in comparison to how barely promoted the supposed "Nascar NEXT" Stars are outside of *Gasp* a certain Female driver who is related to an already popular Former X-Games athlete)

AMPMROCKETFANN
Granted Junior gets a pass because A: He only does this once a year, usually as a throwback and nothing else. B: He has no prospects of ever returning to the Cup series. Maybe the others should take that as a hint and either give up the cup career or limit themselves to on race a year.
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Kinda not even a fair comparison considering he is also retired, which technically would mean he could do full time if he desired (Key word being "desired" as he's not interested in that beyond that yearly one race which is also to please sponsors on HIS team).
 
RACECAR
While true, again its never really officially been a step latter series like the ones I mentioned. They've only been band-aiding and patching it the last ten or so years and marketed that way because of all the complaining (and lets be honest, partly because "HEY GUYS, REDNECK JESUS 2.0 IS HERE" in the case of both Austin Dillon and Chase Elliot, both of which because the power of the letter E) With the only real measure being the limiting of how many races Cup drivers can do and at best its kinda phoned in and not all that effective outside of already being a development driver when you think about it, assuming you even make there and still are one. Couple that with again the whole Cup driver preference over a new face for sponsors as well as the fact that its not even mostly of new faces, but of guys who've either long left Cup and are just stuck there or of the same ole' regulars consisting of the same shoestring teams or the same start & Parkers(Also, Mike Harmon because apparently thieves are still allowed to compete I guess) and its frankly hard for me to agree that they are or should only be for new talent (Seriously, is that family team of Jeremy Clements EVEN considering Cup ever?) . If these really should be just for new talent and not for Buschwhackers/Homewreckers or whatever the hell thy call them now (I guess "TV Sappers", which would technically be correct because of how much Both the networks AND Sponsors love their Cup drivers), then I suggest a far more radical approach provided NASCAR would have the balls to do it: Scrap it and rebuild it from scratch. Many suggest banning Cup drivers outright but because of how NASCAR has basically allowed Sponsors to determine so much for so long, that in itself would be a huge mess due to again the Cup star draw Sponsors prefer (Remember Dollar General leaving Burney Lamar for Kevin Harvick? Z-line Designs leaving Kevin Conway for Kyle Busch?). Sure Names like Sadler sorta are known (Helps that he was a cup driver at one time) but I have to ask (At least before this pandemic happened): How people could name or remember any driver from JUST those series and not a Cup driver that are in those series? Sure people will remember the two series but for which reason, the drivers specific to those championships or because the Cup drivers that dominated them? I get it, there are fans that would actually like their Christopher Bells or Justin Haleys to actually have wins and not have it basically out of their hand by a country mile for the trillionth time, but at the same time to pretend that this is supposed to a feeder series when it never was in the first place and with a sanctioning body that itself clearly cares more about the people in the top series then they do about anyone below is at this point screaming at a wall expecting it to move (Though its nothing in comparison to how barely promoted the supposed "Nascar NEXT" Stars are outside of *Gasp* a certain Female driver who is related to an already popular Former X-Games athlete)



Kinda not even a fair comparison considering he is also retired, which technically would mean he could do full time if he desired (Key word being "desired" as he's not interested in that beyond that yearly one race which is also to please sponsors on HIS team).
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I’ve always preferred the Xfinity and Truck series to be their own things and not feeders. They’ve just become that over time. They both used to have a lot more of a short track focus and often saw guys who raced at that track normally show up for one race to take on the series regulars, but now it’s become both too expensive and they don’t go to tracks that have weekly racing. The cars in all three series became a lot more homogenized in the 90’s and 2000’s. Before that the Busch cars had 6 CYLINDERS for a long time. And plenty of people are aware of the icons of the lower series, like Ingram and Ard or Hornaday and Sprague, the two series have just been made less financially viable over time and that’s why you don’t see the lifers anymore (at least racing at the front) beyond Allgaier or Crafton and Sauter. And said lack of financial viability is why the two series are dependent entirely on Cup regulars and pay drivers to drive sponsorship.

They’ve already tried and failed at the main method of increasing the purse size which is increasing fan interest, so they do really need to rethink the ladder system. There’s too many similar series, and it’s especially broken now that Xfinity cars are harder to drive and require a completely different skillset to Cup.

If it was me, and I think I’ve said it before, they should fill niches with the various feeder series. Have a true F2 style series which races detuned/older Cup cars and follows the Cup schedule for a chunk of the schedule (and probably has smaller grids, like 20-25 cars). The next tier below that should be a dedicated short track series (probably with some dirt) and a dedicated road course series, preferably with a common car, visiting markets and tracks NASCAR never visits or hasn’t been to recently. Both those series should be pitched as the pinnacle of stock cars in both those formats. And maybe a few times a year you can take those cars to bigger traditional Cup tracks as either exhibitions or some other championship (like the ARCA Showdown this year) but there should be no obligation for teams and drivers to have to prepare big track cars, like ARCA does now. The ARCA schedule now is too diverse and ambitious, it would be ideal for teams to be able to race an entire season with only one or two cars, and for the barrier to be lowered again where late model drivers or ambitious SCCA type drivers could prepare a car for a one-off race at their home tracks. They even have two legacy names for the two series, Grand National and Grand Am(erican).

But the moral is, you’re right, the system needs an overhaul.
 
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RACECAR
While true, again its never really officially been a step latter series like the ones I mentioned. They've only been band-aiding and patching it the last ten or so years and marketed that way because of all the complaining (and lets be honest, partly because "HEY GUYS, REDNECK JESUS 2.0 IS HERE" in the case of both Austin Dillon and Chase Elliot, both of which because the power of the letter E) With the only real measure being the limiting of how many races Cup drivers can do and at best its kinda phoned in and not all that effective outside of already being a development driver when you think about it, assuming you even make there and still are one. Couple that with again the whole Cup driver preference over a new face for sponsors as well as the fact that its not even mostly of new faces, but of guys who've either long left Cup and are just stuck there or of the same ole' regulars consisting of the same shoestring teams or the same start & Parkers(Also, Mike Harmon because apparently thieves are still allowed to compete I guess) and its frankly hard for me to agree that they are or should only be for new talent (Seriously, is that family team of Jeremy Clements EVEN considering Cup ever?) . If these really should be just for new talent and not for Buschwhackers/Homewreckers or whatever the hell thy call them now (I guess "TV Sappers", which would technically be correct because of how much Both the networks AND Sponsors love their Cup drivers), then I suggest a far more radical approach provided NASCAR would have the balls to do it: Scrap it and rebuild it from scratch. Many suggest banning Cup drivers outright but because of how NASCAR has basically allowed Sponsors to determine so much for so long, that in itself would be a huge mess due to again the Cup star draw Sponsors prefer (Remember Dollar General leaving Burney Lamar for Kevin Harvick? Z-line Designs leaving Kevin Conway for Kyle Busch?). Sure Names like Sadler sorta are known (Helps that he was a cup driver at one time) but I have to ask (At least before this pandemic happened): How people could name or remember any driver from JUST those series and not a Cup driver that are in those series? Sure people will remember the two series but for which reason, the drivers specific to those championships or because the Cup drivers that dominated them? I get it, there are fans that would actually like their Christopher Bells or Justin Haleys to actually have wins and not have it basically out of their hand by a country mile for the trillionth time, but at the same time to pretend that this is supposed to a feeder series when it never was in the first place and with a sanctioning body that itself clearly cares more about the people in the top series then they do about anyone below is at this point screaming at a wall expecting it to move (Though its nothing in comparison to how barely promoted the supposed "Nascar NEXT" Stars are outside of *Gasp* a certain Female driver who is related to an already popular Former X-Games athlete)
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IMO what's stopping NASCAR from just gutting the whole series and remaking it into a dedicated feeder series like GP2/Formula 2 and effectively writing in rules and standards that effectively make it hard for Cup drivers to waltz in and get rides? Just rearrange the schedule so both series only intertwine for 3-5 races a year, pair it up more with the truck series or even stuff like IMSA or Indycar* and do things like changing the rules over to cast off Cup equipment (Wish NASCAR did this with the Gen 7 announcement but since that's seemingly been delayed, it could still happen).


*= Yes, the Truck series could use some more identity, and I would suggest the series being a bit more "offbeat" and running more dirt tracks like Eldora, 1 more Canadian track and, hear me out on this, a "showcase" race at the USGP in COTA. This race serves as a goodwill gesture to the F1 world, as well as a way of showcasing something unique and distinctly "American" as a way to get the crowd hyped. Kinda like the SST series in Australia.
 
AMPMROCKETFANN
a "showcase" race at the USGP in COTA
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This will never happen as long as Bruton Smith draws breath. He owns Texas Speedway, hates COTA with a passion and is too entrenched in NASCAR's upper levels to be bypassed or overridden. COTA themselves even brought up the topic of hosting a NASCAR race there a year or two back, and were bluntly told by IMS "no, and don't ask again".
 
EngieDiesel
This will never happen as long as Bruton Smith draws breath. He owns Texas Speedway, hates COTA with a passion and is too entrenched in NASCAR's upper levels to be bypassed or overridden. COTA themselves even brought up the topic of hosting a NASCAR race there a year or two back, and were bluntly told by IMS "no, and don't ask again".
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Well this just sucks.
 
Why is it Hamlin seems to get the job done with his Toyota, but Truex and Kyle are struggling?
 
Dotini
Why is it Hamlin seems to get the job done with his Toyota, but Truex and Kyle are struggling?
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Kyle Busch actually has a lot of top 5s so far this season. The poor finishes are from circumstances beyond his control. Blown up engine in Daytona, late race loose wheel in Darlington and last night was a cut tire from an insane and dumb 4 wide battle. Cost him 2 laps. Really isn’t doing too bad considering. Truex? I don’t care lol
 
Can someone shoot the weather controlling people in the USA? It's already ass that the races start at midnight for me, but with the weather delays I miss pretty much everything.
 
Dennisch
Can someone shoot the weather controlling people in the USA? It's already ass that the races start at midnight for me, but with the weather delays I miss pretty much everything.
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There are a ton of bullets that go into the sky, nothing changes. :lol:
50/50 shot of rain in the South if temp is 85+ F and +50% humidity.
 
Excellent entertaining finish at Bristol! Elliot couldn't deal with success, and clobbered Logano, handing the win to Brad and a well sneaked 2nd for Bowyer.
 
Damn man I’ve been spoiled by having 2 races per week. Was looking forward to going to Bristol again on Wednesday. Hell I’ll take a whole season of just Bristol after that.
 
The whole race was pretty good but the last 150 laps or so were amazing.

I guess race control has been desensitized by the lack of incidents at the high downforce races but there were a lot of unnecessary cautions in that race, at least 5 or 6, especially the incident with Harvick and Jones which completely changed the complexion of the finish.
 

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