2021 FIA Series Race Discussion
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 9,031 comments
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- 367
- Netherlands
That's probably all true, but I'm also curious like the OP why the change comes about from one week to the other.
I've summed up the three differences between week 23's Daily and todays Nations. They are:
1. Length: D10 vs N14
2. Fuel: D 1x vs N 3x
3. Tyres: D M/S vs N H/M
Time of day is also different, but does that influence the outcome?
So what is it exactly that explains the shift from M6 to Beetle/Porsche?
And please don't say the latter two are better at tyres and fuel... that's obvious I get that. Grip, cornering vs straights, etc. etc. I wish to understand in depth what happens with the cars.
- 595
- Stockholm
If you take fuel and tyres out of the equation, the answer is that it's almost all imaginary.
Look at the Gr2 race last week was it? Everyone was going for the GT-R just like when it comes up in dailies, but people run the Lexus and NSX in the races just fine.
What happens is that a few people post times with the same car, then everyone follows them like lemmings without thinking critically about how the cars behave for them. It's the same with copying people's setups and tunes, just because they are faster with it doesn't mean you will be.
Look at the Gr2 race last week was it? Everyone was going for the GT-R just like when it comes up in dailies, but people run the Lexus and NSX in the races just fine.
What happens is that a few people post times with the same car, then everyone follows them like lemmings without thinking critically about how the cars behave for them. It's the same with copying people's setups and tunes, just because they are faster with it doesn't mean you will be.
- 51,610
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Well, jumped in Free Practice. My usual one lap to see how comfortable I am in each car. Using the RMs, no brake balance adjustments.
M6: 1:57.534
AMG: 1:58.172
911: 1:56.337
No mistakes. The M6 has a slightly loose rear like the M4. Helps the car rotate, but too much power makes it break away. That didn't happen during my lap, as I know the car. However, I could feel it just about to slip. Felt fast.
AMG. As much as I've driven the horrible handling Hamilton version, this car does a weird MR understeer slide thing. I hate it.
This is a car I'm not fast in. Takes forever for me to exit a corner in it.
My start from the final chicane was a bit sloppy. Possibly hindered my time.
Nearly the same start as the AMG. Other than that, the 911 carries oodles of speed everywhere. Strong mid-corner to exit acceleration and it's a rocket. That time shows.
Over these past 3 1/2 years, I've driven the 911 way less than than I've driven the M6. Despite the 911's GTE gearing, the car is strong at this circuit.
M6: 1:57.534
AMG: 1:58.172
911: 1:56.337
No mistakes. The M6 has a slightly loose rear like the M4. Helps the car rotate, but too much power makes it break away. That didn't happen during my lap, as I know the car. However, I could feel it just about to slip. Felt fast.
AMG. As much as I've driven the horrible handling Hamilton version, this car does a weird MR understeer slide thing. I hate it.
This is a car I'm not fast in. Takes forever for me to exit a corner in it.
My start from the final chicane was a bit sloppy. Possibly hindered my time.
Nearly the same start as the AMG. Other than that, the 911 carries oodles of speed everywhere. Strong mid-corner to exit acceleration and it's a rocket. That time shows.
Over these past 3 1/2 years, I've driven the 911 way less than than I've driven the M6. Despite the 911's GTE gearing, the car is strong at this circuit.
- 976
- Indiana USA
- tmsheehan
- ToroSports
This is why I am going with the M6 vice the AMG.
AMG - best lap time for me is 1:58.967
M6 - best lap times is 2:00.022 BUT I can attack the cornering cleaner and exit better than the AMG.
The M6 feels better for me and I FEEL that in race conditions it will be a better car.
Just my thoughts - enjoy your racing.
- 2,794
- New Plymouth
Decided to run in the Yeetle for Nations. Got a lobby with @05XR8 and @Erebus_9 along with some other faces good and bad. Dont have a lot of pace here but often still get good races.
Not tonight. I ran wide and slid badly both qualifying laps so starting p18 of 19. Which means in the chicane aiming off track. On cold hards. By the time I got around the final turn I was 5 seconds behind p17. The guy behind me was lagging a lot and fell off in the hairpin at the bottom of the hill.
Lapped by myself pretty much the rest of the race. Except for passing the last place guy after my pit stop when he tried to ram me off. Wasn't expecting much, but got even less than I was expecting. Tried the undercut on tires to go 6H/8M but some sliding turns gave away any advantage and by the last lap it was sketchy. Fuel saving didnt help.
Nothing bad, just really boring due to PD having some horrific rolling starts (I know, I need to qualify better).
Most others seemed to give well, except for 1 crash, 1 guy with a tire penalty and 1 brave soul in the Audi
Not tonight. I ran wide and slid badly both qualifying laps so starting p18 of 19. Which means in the chicane aiming off track. On cold hards. By the time I got around the final turn I was 5 seconds behind p17. The guy behind me was lagging a lot and fell off in the hairpin at the bottom of the hill.
Lapped by myself pretty much the rest of the race. Except for passing the last place guy after my pit stop when he tried to ram me off. Wasn't expecting much, but got even less than I was expecting. Tried the undercut on tires to go 6H/8M but some sliding turns gave away any advantage and by the last lap it was sketchy. Fuel saving didnt help.
Nothing bad, just really boring due to PD having some horrific rolling starts (I know, I need to qualify better).
Most others seemed to give well, except for 1 crash, 1 guy with a tire penalty and 1 brave soul in the Audi
- 1,733
- Australia
Slot 1 was a bust for me. Q4, Q3 disco’d during rolling start. I lost the rear end at T1, took evasive action and got reset. P10 immediately. Then all hell broke loose in my household and I got seriously distracted. I was so flustered at the pit stop I didn’t change tyres but didn’t realize until I had zero grip exiting turn 2. Once I worked out what I’d done, I rage quit and went to deal with the developing crisis in the house. It wasn’t a crisis and nor was it urgent.
Might go again later, might not. I’ll see how I feel.
Might go again later, might not. I’ll see how I feel.
- 51,610
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
It'll try to kill you though. Mind your throttle on exiting corners!
Gained positions from some going off up ahead. Another form penalties.
Now, I was behind P8 for a few laps before pitting. After pitstops, I came out behind P6 & P5(they were P5 & P6, respectively). Also, pitting one lap earlier(Lap 7) gave me the undercut to the P8 Beetle. I was about 5-6 seconds ahead of it. The two RSRs were battling just a bit as the tyres wore. The P5 RSR ran into pan mac at the final chicane. That slowed us all. Had to evade pan mac before a collision(we didn't hit).
That allows the Beetle to make a bit of ground for the final lap. With a 1 second gap, It catches and goes up my inside(cleanly) at T1. I lose a bit of ground and stay patient. RSR is defending with the Beetle on slightly fresher rubber. After the PZ, they both go a little wide. I catch up. Lose ground again through the esses. Run to the final chicane, the Beetle runs the RSR right off through the chicane. Beeetle gets the penalty and that's the close finish.
Post message, the Beetle blames the RSR for bad driving. I saw everything and it was clear, the Beetle should have waited for either the exit of the chicane or the final turn. I posted so. Leaves me with an okay replay to watch.
Anyway, no fuel saving involved. If you're good on tyres and can qualify well,... do that. Stay out of trouble. Be patient. Run your own race.
One and done. I'm watching Loki
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- 967
- Sydney
- Raptor_Race_13
The Audi that bad in your grouping?
- 595
- Stockholm
Before this season started I was testing Gr3s on Suzuka, and the Vette was fastest for me but I couldn't replicate that consistently. The Porsche was 0.150 behind but I could run those laps consistently.
Single lap pace matters, but finishing without looping it matters more.
- 2,794
- New Plymouth
- 967
- Sydney
- Raptor_Race_13
Fair enough. Might park the planned run in the Audi, and run the BMW instead given I have more experience with it.
And disco’d at matching.
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- 367
- Netherlands
- 967
- Sydney
- Raptor_Race_13
That was on my to do list last night, until I had to stay back at work ruining my plans of both further car testing and watching that video.
- 2,794
- New Plymouth
Decided to run slot 2 as well thinking if I didn't ruin qualifying it might go better. Umm, maybe?
I qualified just over a second faster, start p18 again. Doh. But someone quits or lags out and end up starting just past the chicane. Guy behind me was only 4 seconds back at the start line. But I forgot to switch to Hards. So stupid me has to push hard to make what time I can. Slipstream and my need for fuel saving in the beetle makes that a fail. I get up to p12 but the 911s and Mercs behind just close me up on the back straight and use their weight to take the chicane better meaning they simply drive past on the front straight.
Keep dropping back from there. Had a run in with someone who has been diving and running me off for the past several seasons and I decide that since my race is shot I'm not letting them get away with it anymore. Definitely ruined their race in return for the at least 6 or 7 times they've run me clean off track or dived me out of the way. Useless result as I had no pace, but definitely needed to deal with them. All in all the majority of it wasnt actually bad, but it sort of matches my Spa and Suzuka experiences as tracks where I just really lack the pace to be competitive. Gonna have to up the game somehow at those places.
Oh well. On to the next thing and maybe get my head right at some point. My racing has really suffered this season.
I qualified just over a second faster, start p18 again. Doh. But someone quits or lags out and end up starting just past the chicane. Guy behind me was only 4 seconds back at the start line. But I forgot to switch to Hards. So stupid me has to push hard to make what time I can. Slipstream and my need for fuel saving in the beetle makes that a fail. I get up to p12 but the 911s and Mercs behind just close me up on the back straight and use their weight to take the chicane better meaning they simply drive past on the front straight.
Keep dropping back from there. Had a run in with someone who has been diving and running me off for the past several seasons and I decide that since my race is shot I'm not letting them get away with it anymore. Definitely ruined their race in return for the at least 6 or 7 times they've run me clean off track or dived me out of the way. Useless result as I had no pace, but definitely needed to deal with them. All in all the majority of it wasnt actually bad, but it sort of matches my Spa and Suzuka experiences as tracks where I just really lack the pace to be competitive. Gonna have to up the game somehow at those places.
Oh well. On to the next thing and maybe get my head right at some point. My racing has really suffered this season.
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- 4,552
- Australia
Matched with @D_Dragline in slot 1, started 9th and finished 4th
- 4,552
- Australia
Slot 3 was a pretty close race, started 15th and wouldve finished 8th if not for a 2 second penalty for assisting someone into a spin after they divebombed me.
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- 1,733
- Australia
Went in last slot. Q5 after middling qualy lap. Made my way up to P3 by end of lap 1. Couldn’t make ground on P2 and p4 was just behind me. He had slipstream at the end of lap 3 and I let him go through at turn 1 to signal we could work together. Lap 4 I got slip on him but he took a defensive line into turn 1 and I gave him a small tap as I went past. No serious harm done but I made sure to lift and let him by without incident through turn 5. We are holding a steady gap to p1 and 2. I pit at the end of lap 5 and P3 goes one more on the mediums. He exits the pits and we reach turn 1 side by side. I let him go so we can work at reeling in the 3 second gap to the leaders. This was my big mistake. For the next 3 laps he defends every corner and the 6 second gap to p5 eventually becomes 0. First and second are long gone. I eventually try a cutback at T1 but get my line wrong and slide. P5,6,7 and 8 all go past as I recover. I get one spot back on the final lap but P8 is where I finish.
What might have been if I’d held my line at the start of lap 7.
Oh well, on to the next season…
What might have been if I’d held my line at the start of lap 7.
Oh well, on to the next season…
- 2,480
- United Kingdom
- Hasnain282
Giving it a go in the Merc
- 189
- United Kingdom
An ok qualifying lap in the only M6 in the field put me 5th. Had moved up into 3rd by the the time I pitted lap 7, with 3.5 second gap from 4th behind. Came out the pits in 7th. Got to the chicane at the end of the outlap only for my game to completely crash with the ‘something went wrong with Gran Turismo’ message. So that’s that for the final Nations round. 💩
- 2,480
- United Kingdom
- Hasnain282
Managed to pull out a PB in quali which put me P6 on the grid, unfortunately a mixture of bad driving and poor decision making meant I dropped down the field and ended up P11. Not the best way to end the season but there was some closing racing in that race tbf
- 976
- Indiana USA
- tmsheehan
- ToroSports
Managed my tires (8H/6M), qualified so-so (started 9th - but I did not push it because of the fools acting up during qualifying), stayed out of trouble (except on L12 T5 when I bumped someone - Orange down), was patient for the correct time to pass, and ran my own race - the BMW M6 was awesome!
Fuel was no problem (1.5 laps left at the end), finished 4th, 10 points for Ireland, and 1041 DR gained.
Thanks for the advice - enjoy your racing!
The BEAST on T6
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- 2,940
- Derby, UK
- TPC_Abarber95
Qualifying was a disaster, held up on both runs to start P19 and last.
P10, should have to been 8th if not for a couple of mistakes. P11 on the line as a car got a 1:00 penalty for tyres. 93 points, one and done for me. With a clean run 8th would have been easily doable, IE avoiding track limits at the last chicane.
P10, should have to been 8th if not for a couple of mistakes. P11 on the line as a car got a 1:00 penalty for tyres. 93 points, one and done for me. With a clean run 8th would have been easily doable, IE avoiding track limits at the last chicane.
- 976
- Indiana USA
- tmsheehan
- ToroSports
Nation's Cup Round 10 - EMEA Slot 1 - DS Lobby
For all of you who wondered what us bottom dwellers race like . . . here it is . . .
For all of you who wondered what us bottom dwellers race like . . . here it is . . .
- 1,230
- Michigan
- KosmoKazi
FWIW, I've always expected and assumed that the time of day DOES impact the grip level and therefore the tire model behavior in the game... can't prove it but it's always 'felt' that way, and it's a fairly standard and well-known aspect of racing and tire performance. So perhaps there is a little impact that swings the advantage of certain cars based on the priority of grip vs power vs other that plays into it. (But I'm sure it's mostly just mob-theory in play, as far as what the META is, as suggested above... for sure sometimes there is a clear winner, but often it's monkey see monkey do, at least at less-than-alien levels, where our mistakes are much greater than the slim differences in BoP)
PB in the qualifying session... NICE WORK! That's not easy to do. I can always expect a 0.4 - 1.0 sec gap from my PB in FP to the actual qualifying time... nerves, being cautious, not being able to 'perform' when it matters... it always means I'm not likely to beat my FP time or even come close in the actual session.
Heck, I'm happy if I get a new PB in the FP session after entering the race... that nice little cheer you get from the crowd then is more motivating than it has right to be!
- 727
- Rotterdam
- mcl-1974-2
Same for me, and I am sure for many others here. And that is why I have so much admiration for professional race drivers in F1 (and other classes) who are able to drive a qualifying lap to the max every single time. Often I find the qualifying session in F1 more interessting then the actual race because of that....
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