2021 FIA Series Race Discussion

[KosmoKazi]

Good seeing @afc5150, @Geauxgreddy, @KosmoKazi, and @Kermit_2142 in the first two slots with me. Unfortunately, in both races one of my tires caught the grass or something on one of the corners, causing me to bin it and lose positions.

Went into slot 3 more focused than ever. My goal was just to not to have any screw-ups like before and hope for the best. I qualified 11th in a lobby worth somewhere around 190 points. Lap 1 showed some promise. Passed a Scirocco and M4 that went off track, then a Cayman that I got a better exit on at Ex-Muhle, and finally passed another Corvette that served a penalty.

I'm 7th by lap 2. A Vantage that was ahead brakes way too late at the corner before the carousel and goes straight into the wall. I make my way past them as they try to recover. I maintain 6th until we approach the final straight, where that same Vantage goes for this very tight gap and makes contact with me, receiving a 2 second penalty:



Sharing because they called the penalty BS but what do you guys think? I flashed my headlights at them because to me, it felt like they pushed their way through.

After that, the other Corvette passes me as well but has a 1.5 second penalty from some other incident. Both cars serve their penalties and I take home 6th place. Took three tries, but I managed to drive a mistake-free race that also helped me gain several positions.

The kind of stuff that is too common in GTS that can't happen IRL without consequences, unfortunately. A couple of observations:

1) he only had the run because he was hit from behind on the exit on the prior turn to the Kleiner Karousel... so he was gifted the opportunity
2) it's way too common that someone who loses a position due to a mistake feels entitled and emboldened to make such moves later, to re-take positions that they lost. I've learned to expect it and have trended more often than not to give up the spot if they are on my rear end later, because it's too often the case that stuff like that happens when they 'assert' their greatness later.

Myself, when I make a mistake like you say the Aston did, I am more inclined to let the guy who didn't have a safe race without doing bogus things like that. It's just fair. I want to win? Stay clean, including keeping it on the track without single-car mistakes.

But that's not the MO on GTS. In fact, I was leading a race at Monza yesterday, after a guy who was pretty fast and had been maintaining a 2s lead on me all race put it into the gravel in the first chicane. After I led the next two laps, he had caught me again my the final time through Parabolica, and I had to concede the fight coming off the apex... perhaps I should have fought him harder, but I was protecting my SR to recover to 99 and expected him to initiate contact with me to 'take what was his' by that point.

I hate the FIA points, I'm at 60k DR now which means finishing last in 2nd split for 80 points. If I drop to 40k I can fight for a win and 200 points with a slower race time. For that to happen there is something seriously wrong with the system.

True and fair enough... but it's a risk/reward system, so there is some logic in that setup. The point you make just pulls the band of potential points in tighter and reduces the risk/reward lever...

It could always be optimized, but I think the overall effectiveness of the FIA and DR points system is pretty good. I'm motivated to get higher DR, even though I've plateaued a bit since hitting about 35k... no podiums or wins since I was at about 25k, but that doesn't keep me from trying harder to raise my DR and get more FIA points for 5-8 type finishes. I'd love to podium and win more, but I have to get faster to do that.

 

[Pigems]

I hate the FIA points, I'm at 60k DR now which means finishing last in 2nd split for 80 points. If I drop to 40k I can fight for a win and 200 points with a slower race time. For that to happen there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Agreed, I got more points in those 2 races on my Alt, at the top of 2nd split, than I got all season at the bottom of top split.


Edit: Not that it really matters though I guess, if your not winning top split races, there are Zero chances of a WT appearance anyways.

 

[T_702_Balone]

I thought you were in that second race too? Either way, always a pleasure Sir.

if and when I get good enough, you might see me in your review mirror....
yaw, just one race, i felt lucky to keep it on the track for two laps

 

[D_Dragline]

I know it was pretty strong at DTS Race C.

Have done some more testing and, for me, the NSX is no go. I’m about 15 seconds slower than the 650s across a no stop trial.

It’s a bit better on fuel, but the tyre wear is worse and I cannot get within a second a lap of my times in the McLaren. YMMV.

 

[HaydenFan69]

I am still surprised nobody is mentioning the Ferrari? I like the McLaren, and will probably stick with it, but I feel that could be a usable machine.

 

[05XR8]

There are 28 cars to choose. Can't just be about three that offer the best performance.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Edit: Not that it really matters though I guess, if your not winning top split races, there are Zero chances of a WT appearance anyways.

This is probably an unpopular opinion but only giving points for the top split would be a better system. The rest of us are essentially only playing for fun on combos different to the dailies or at most a little S besides our names, for 99.9% of us the points are an irrelevance.

 

[HaydenFan69]

Max, there is some regional bragging rights. I think an overall standings for most means nothing, unless you can be a top 16, top 25 player. But the more regional stuff is fun.

 

[KosmoKazi]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but only giving points for the top split would be a better system. The rest of us are essentially only playing for fun on combos different to the dailies or at most a little S besides our names, for 99.9% of us the points are an irrelevance.

If you’re not keeping score, it’s just practice!

the competition is tight top to bottom. I like it!

 

[Razgriz2118]

Edit: Delete. Post compared 650S and F-Type but I forgot to BOP the F-Type.

 

[05XR8]

I guess the other factors will be cold tyre performance, traffic, being behind a car in dirty air, fighting for position. This is a Grid Start, remember. Even though some cars have better tyre wear, if a faster car, overall, can hold off a better tyre performer, that still slows down the better tyre performer. Shoot, a GT-R, WRX and maybe a Veyron, could get the jump at the start enough to be a nuisance for the first few laps. Also, the WRX did okay at Nurburgring. Might not be bad for the whole race at Fuji.

How about the Genesis, 86 and Slophy? If a player using one of those, can at least stay in the slipstream of a faster car on the straights, may help when tyre wear comes into play.

 

[crusselz]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but only giving points for the top split would be a better system. The rest of us are essentially only playing for fun on combos different to the dailies or at most a little S besides our names, for 99.9% of us the points are an irrelevance.

Definitely get the sentiment. A top split driver, can win 1 race and get more points that an A/B driver would for winning 3 or 4 races.

But I reckon the competition is part of what makes the FIA races attractive. Pitting yourself against a spectrum of drivers.

Off the top of my head. But maybe they could have a "top 16" for every respective DR. Giving a D/S driver the opportunity to be a top 16 at their grade. Or something similar. But that would need a functional penalty system. Otherwise higher ranking drivers would simply tank their DR to qualify for lower lobbies.

 

[D_Dragline]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but only giving points for the top split would be a better system. The rest of us are essentially only playing for fun on combos different to the dailies or at most a little S besides our names, for 99.9% of us the points are an irrelevance.

I think the issue arises due to a flawed approach to points allocation from PD. They simply assign on the basis of average DR, BUT they match on SR first. Therefore there is the prospect that lower splits will have higher points allocations due to low SR/high DR drivers.

The answer is to rank on a combination of DR and SR and then award points solely according to split ranking. I.e. top split points spread is 500 - 400, second split 400-350 etc...

 

[Rangeraus]

This is probably an unpopular opinion but only giving points for the top split would be a better system. The rest of us are essentially only playing for fun on combos different to the dailies or at most a little S besides our names, for 99.9% of us the points are an irrelevance.

I can't agree with this

Getting 100/200/250 points in a second split (or lower) FIA race is a big achievement for a lot of people. Likewise getting star rating with your real name displaying on a leaderboard is a tangible achievement that will encourage people to dig deeper as well.

I would say the above is an important stepping stone, both in terms of setting goals for yourself and then realising how fast you need to be to achieve them, for people starting out in GT online racing and progressing.

I get what you're saying, but if you don't dangle a carrot then I think a lot less people will bother attempting FIA events which is not really ideal.

 

[crusselz]

I can't agree with this

Getting 100/200/250 points in a second split (or lower) FIA race is a big achievement for a lot of people. Likewise getting star rating with your real name displaying on a leaderboard is a tangible achievement that will encourage people to dig deeper as well.

I would say the above is an important stepping stone, both in terms of setting goals for yourself and then realising how fast you need to be to achieve them, for people starting out in GT online racing and progressing.

I get what you're saying, but if you don't dangle a carrot then I think a lot less people will bother attempting FIA events which is not really ideal.

Fair point. But it isn't much of a carrot, if you'll never achieve anything.

I wonder how many people in EMEA have crossed 1000 points this season. So even those who are fast. May never achieve anything.

 

[D_Dragline]

So I’ve been contemplating qualifying for Nations at Fuji. It has the potential to be a nightmare as there will be a set of cars trying to do 2 clean flying laps and another set of cars who will reset after penalties. This opens the door for plenty of out lap traffic while flying laps are underway.

It leads me to a silly question. Why aren’t we ghosted on out laps just like lapped cars in-race? It would mean we could run flying laps safe from the fear of them being ruined by an unaware driver on their out lap.

 

[Rangeraus]

Fair point. But it isn't much of a carrot, if you'll never achieve anything.

Achievement is all relative though, isn't it?

Just because not everyone gets to go to a World Tour or World Finals doesn't mean they can't get a feeling of satisfaction/achievement out of competing for whatever they consider a good achievement commensurate with their skill level.

And what I'm saying is that I think removing markers of those achievements is not a great idea, and wouldn't really help to maintain the attraction of the FIA championships to a lot of people.

 

[05XR8]

I think ghosting is a distraction as well. Some people would run straight off in hopes to dupe someone into outbraking themselves. Hence, ruining their lap.

 

[D_Dragline]

I think ghosting is a distraction as well. Some people would run straight off in hopes to dupe someone into outbraking themselves. Hence, ruining their lap.

Agree, but I can adapt to that without compromising my lap. I can’t adapt to someone blocking on the racing line.

 

[OJBrit]

Fair point. But it isn't much of a carrot, if you'll never achieve anything.

I wonder how many people in EMEA have crossed 1000 points this season. So even those who are fast. May never achieve anything.

For me I use it to gauge my progress and see how I am doing relative to others. Whilst in DR C I was competing for 20-30 odd points each time. Now I'm low B I am competing for 40-60 odd points which is double previous. So yes whilst it is a pittance to those in A+/S it is a lot for me. Also seeing myself within the top 1,000 drivers for my country and in a healthy position for my city also brings me a smile and honour.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Is it just me that feels like the guns have stopped and its the final run to the thermal exhaust port once you reach the final straight on Nordschleife? Almost there...almost there...

View attachment 983996

Stay on target

Fair point. But it isn't much of a carrot, if you'll never achieve anything.

I wonder how many people in EMEA have crossed 1000 points this season. So even those who are fast. May never achieve anything.

Even if it's a small incentive, it's better than none. It gives me something to compete for, which is really the only reason I play the game at this point, as they just keep rehashing the same combinations over and over.

Removing points for second split downwards doesn't achieve anything, and alienates everyone who isn't an elite but wants to see how high up the leaderboard they can get.

 

[crusselz]

Removing points for second split downwards doesn't achieve anything, and alienates everyone who isn't an elite but wants to see how high up the leaderboard they can get.

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you. Just saying, it would be nice to have additional incentive, to the drivers, like myself, who will may never be A+ ranked.

I love it as it is, and I've tracked, especially this season, how I've faired with my manufacturer. Globally in the top 35, which I'm happy with.

Just I'd love it to see the highest ranked driver from a lower DR for a manufacturer awarded a prize of sorts (I.e. for Chevy, of all the D ranked drivers, the one with the most points, likewise for C as well), even something like extra points at the end of the season. If that makes sense lol.

 

[Critterchum]

For me I use it to gauge my progress and see how I am doing relative to others. Whilst in DR C I was competing for 20-30 odd points each time. Now I'm low B I am competing for 40-60 odd points which is double previous. So yes whilst it is a pittance to those in A+/S it is a lot for me. Also seeing myself within the top 1,000 drivers for my country and in a healthy position for my city also brings me a smile and honour.

How do you check city status or user names near to where you live?

 

[Famine]

How do you check city status or user names near to where you live?

Click on "local ranking" either in the game or here (for you, won't work for people outside Europe who need a different URL):
https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gtsport/sportmode/championship/2658/rankings

 

[OJBrit]

How do you check city status or user names near to where you live?

Go to the points rankings for the respective competition. (The podium button).
Then the tabs down the left hand side of the screen show you your position for each respective region. So for Nations I compete on a leaderboard for EMEA, The UK and Bristol. It also displays the Bristol rank by age group.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Don't get me wrong. I completely agree with you. Just saying, it would be nice to have additional incentive, to the drivers, like myself, who will may never be A+ ranked.

I love it as it is, and I've tracked, especially this season, how I've faired with my manufacturer. Globally in the top 35, which I'm happy with.

But you're kind of contradicting yourself here. You wouldn't be able to gauge yourself without the points available to everyone else, which is exactly why the system in place is fundamentally good. (One of the best features PD put in GT Sport).

Just I'd love it to see the highest ranked driver from a lower DR for a manufacturer awarded a prize of sorts (I.e. for Chevy, of all the D ranked drivers, the one with the most points, likewise for C as well), even something like extra points at the end of the season. If that makes sense lol.

This is the exact opposite of your earlier point lol

The problem with any system rewarding lower ranked drivers over higher ranked drivers, is that it it incentivises better players to drive slower. In this example, I could be A+ all season before going full Forza before entering the last race of the season with driver ranking D.

The rankings include by region/nation/state/city so you can see how you rank at different levels which is enough incentive in my opinion

 

[crusselz]

But you're kind of contradicting yourself here. You wouldn't be able to gauge yourself without the points available to everyone else, which is exactly why the system in place is fundamentally good. (One of the best features PD put in GT Sport).



This is the exact opposite of your earlier point lol

The problem with any system rewarding lower ranked drivers over higher ranked drivers, is that it it incentivises better players to drive slower. In this example, I could be A+ all season before going full Forza before entering the last race of the season with driver ranking D.

The rankings include by region/nation/state/city so you can see how you rank at different levels which is enough incentive in my opinion

Alrighyty. Just different opinions. I see your point.

Out of curiosity, where is the contradiction?

 

[KosmoKazi]

Fair point. But it isn't much of a carrot, if you'll never achieve anything.

I wonder how many people in EMEA have crossed 1000 points this season. So even those who are fast. May never achieve anything.

I would also say that it seems to work pretty well... on both my main and alt accounts, I kind of stall out at 35k where it becomes hard for me to consistently finish in the top 10 of 20 car FIA races, so my DR points plateau around there. Both my main and Alt account... so it's pretty valid as an indicator of my talent/performance capability.

And in parallel, if I run FIA races at lower DR (say: 25k-30k "high-B" DR grouping) I am able to podium races and compete for an occasional win. Whereas at 35k, it's very rare.

So to me, the rating system works, and allows for you to race with the peak peer competitor group to challenge your capabilities to the max.

I think higher DR lobbies SHOULD pay more FIA points, as when combined with the risk/reward potential that I mentioned earlier, I think it drives competition to be the best. But I understand and accept that lower rated lobbies pay better for a win at that lower level, than a poor finish in a higher one. Typically, if you're in the bottom half of a field, you either made mistakes or were truly not better than most of the other drivers where your DR places you... so maybe that's not your natural DR standing, if it happens repeatedly... we know people can grind to 'false' DR levels, so why reward that?

Also, you can be sure that PD, despite anything they may do that is seemingly foolish from time to time, have REAMS of data and can analyze it to suss out the 'game theory' mechanics of it all, and are doing what shows to be best- for engagement, for competition, for parity in the competition, and to make for a fair challenge. I trust that data is being used right and I do like the DR and FIA points system.

(the only practical flaw I see in it is that it is much easier to earn DR with less-than-perfect SR... at least in the States, because the fields are limited to only a handful of fast drivers typically. I can easily podium in most rooms in the 80-89 and lower SR bins, which makes it easier to build DR when your SR is bruised... that shouldn't really be, but as a priority when balancing how this ecosystem works, I can understand that it's a consequence of how it is set up, without a simple solution. Especially if the dynamic is different in the regions, given how many active players there are in each.)

 

[crusselz]

Have done some more testing and, for me, the NSX is no go. I’m about 15 seconds slower than the 650s across a no stop trial.

It’s a bit better on fuel, but the tyre wear is worse and I cannot get within a second a lap of my times in the McLaren. YMMV.

Sorry. Forgot to ask. Did you try the Viper? Seems quite good around there.

 

[Pigems]

Sorry. Forgot to ask. Did you try the Viper? Seems quite good around there.

The Viper is fast at first, but eats front tires for breakfast. The 650s is the best car for this race. 👍