2024 US Presidential Election Thread
- Thread starter ryzno
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- TexRex72
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I don't even know why I'm bothering with this, but here goes:
Harris wasn't mocking Christians, she was mocking the hecklers. Is that really the way you're/they're spinning that?
And if "God" had the final say, why are you championing a decision you had nothing to do with? It was made for you, isn't that the implication? Isn't that exactly what you're against? Isn't that what you're all against!?
And the second picture is just...hilariously dumb. Coming from someone that practically admitted to being racist, I'm not the least bit surprised though.
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Danoff
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Disagree. Harris talked plenty about how the atrocities in Gaza have to stop.
This voting bloc was just dumb.
And all of the rest of the platform, and the criticism of the behavior in Gaza and toward Palestinians, yea. Apart from all that stuff sure.
Well that's just them being dumb if they think Trump is in any way anti-Israel.
As it should have been. And another large part was "Look at the good stuff we'll do".
I don't know what to tell you. Somehow even over here, not in a swing state, I got lots of Harris's actual platform.
I saw plenty of ads that went out in swing states, and I saw lots of speeches, and I saw the DNC, and I saw billboards, and I disagree.
Doubt.
Disagree. I think people had more than enough time.
This is just so... mind boggling to me. That somehow despite all of the noise and information that the Harris campaign made, that if she didn't reach voters who didn't even know Biden wasn't still running, that somehow it's her fault they voted for Trump.
It's nonsense. I won't sit here and watch you people blame democrats and Harris for running a solid campaign while Trump made every mistake he could and rambled like an 80 year old while praising Nazis. It's more than I can tolerate.
What's happening in this country is that people are embracing authoritarianism. It's not Harris, it's not Democrats, it's that they actually like the hatred and dehumanization coming from the right. You need to come to terms with that.
This. Is. What. America. Wanted.
The idiots in this country want their own version of Putin. They idolize assholes.
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UKMikey
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She even said she'd legalise marijuana (presumably overturning several of her own convictions).
This is why we can't have nice things.
This is why we can't have nice things.
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Thanks for using "mind boggling". No doubt all the Eugene Tackleberrys in the USA were shining up their guns for the go word by Trumpf. They didn't want to see the treasonous things he was saying and how much he doesn't care about his supporters. To him, they're all expendable.
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- TexRex72
This is substantive and I'm compelled to point out that it's widely accepted, with only a very online fringe perpetuating the falsehood that the Fake Bake bitch's win was fraudulent. I think there's far more from Rs about how down-ballot D wins are fraudulent, especially focused around Kari Lake for Senate.
Has anyone here claimed it was fraudulent this time around like there were those that did four years ago? I haven't seen anything.
The president doesn't have the power to legalize marijuana federally. It would have to be an act of Congress. Maybe she could direct a legalization effort more effectively than Biden (I don't think he even wanted to). I don't know if it could have passed, as it would depend heavily on control of the two houses, but I'd still like to see Democrats push for it to expose Republicans' hypocrisy on federalism.
The president also couldn't overturn California convictions, and that's what hers were. Anyway, the California ballot measure that saw marijuana legalized in 2016 also provided for expungement of pre-2016 convictions that wouldn't have occurred after the law.
Joey D
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It just wasn't Arab-Americans, though. The Democrats took for granted blacks, Latinos, and students, all traditionally Democrat voters. Those blocs either didn't vote, or they voted for Trump.
I mean, I watched football every Sunday and got hundreds of those ads due to the hundreds of commercial breaks the NFL insists on. Trump's go-to was "Harris is giving trans surgery to prisoners" or "illegals are rapists," and Harris's go-to was "look at how terrible Trump is" and "Project 2025 will be the death of us." I got nothing of Harris's platform from the ads other than she'd "be a president for all Americans." To know what she stood for and her plans, I had to actively go out and research her as a candidate. I will concede that she did hammer home that she'd protect abortion rights, so that was a bit of her plan that did seem to make it into the ads.
I'm sure she talked about her platform in her speeches, but most Americans aren't going to watch those. They need bite-sized chunks, and the only bite-sized chunks I saw were from her ads saying how awful Trump is, how terrible Project 2025 is, and that she'd protect reproductive rights. I remember a handful of ads saying she'd "protect the middle class," but every politician says that. There were also a couple that suggested going after price gougers. I had to actively look up what she was planning to do though.
You're giving people way too much credit for actually knowing or understanding what they voted for, I feel. Many Americans don't even have a functional understanding of the basics of government or the Constitution. Just look at how many people think freedom of speech means they can go online and say whatever they want. Look at how many feel the president controls gas prices or the stock market. Go back to COVID, look at how many people believed whatever the Internet told them over what actual evidence showed them. Look at how many people deny climate change or think the government controls hurricanes. People are dumb and don't care about getting smarter. It goes back to the whole anti-intellectualism movement going on and the fact that stupid people get angry when you call them stupid. Hell, I actively try to be in tune with things, but I'm a long way away from being even remotely an expert.
I don't think this is what America wanted; I think it's more of a case of America being far too stupid to understand what it got. They'd rather believe what they see on social media than evidence-backed information from experts.
The Democrats had to have known this, but they didn't cater to those people. Trump, on the other hand, catered to idiots, and idiots latched onto what he was talking about despite not knowing what any of it meant. I'm willing to bet most people don't understand what authoritarianism is, or fascism for that matter. I'm guessing they don't know what a tariff is and how that cost will get passed onto the consumer. They probably don't understand what mass deportation means for a sizeable chunk of the economy that relies on undocumented workers. Most probably didn't even know what Project 2025 is. They don't understand the word "nuance" at all, either. I look at my parents; they voted for Trump and couldn't begin to tell you what a tariff is or even know what Project 2025 was about, but I've had them take the political compass quiz before and both are libertarian left. I love them, but they're stupid when it comes to understanding politics.
Yes, there are absolute authoritarianists in America, and it's not a small number by any means. The Democrats were never going to reach them or convince them of anything. But the independent voter could've been reached, and many of those are either dumb, don't care, or think none of it matters, so you need to address them at their level to get them to understand. Hell, a lot of independent voters hate negativity and simply won't vote for someone who's overly negative. So, yes, I think some of the blame is on the Democrats for not doing a better job. And yes, I do think had there been a primary process with Biden opting not to run again earlier, the Democrats likely would've won as well. Three months just isn't enough time to convince everyone who needs convincing, especially when Trump's been convincing people for nearly 10 years.
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Israeli Minister Uses Trump Win to Propose Complete West Bank Takeover
A far-right Israeli minister congratulated Trump—and then announced that now is the time to annex the West Bank.
newrepublic.com
Umm. Yeah.
Keef
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Pro-Gaza anti-Harris protestors really stuck it to the man.Israeli Minister Uses Trump Win to Propose Complete West Bank Takeover
A far-right Israeli minister congratulated Trump—and then announced that now is the time to annex the West Bank.
Umm. Yeah.
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Law in US is product of democracy. If you don't like it, you should obey it in the moment and vote for candidates that would change it at next elections. If political party creating situation when committing a crime becomes norm - its, basically, coup against democracy.
I do believe, that immigration is vital for Western countries. What I don't believe is that uncontrollable immigration is somehow better than controllable one.
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Danoff
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I think you're giving them too little. The crux of your argument is that the democrats need to manipulate sheep better, and the sheep are incapable of making decisions on their own, so it is the political party that is to blame if they're not sufficiently manipulative.
It's an awful view of humanity, an awful view of the function of political parties, an awful view of voting, and if its your view, why would you even been supportive of democracy in the first place? This view tears the American concept apart just as much as any authoritarian push.
America wanted an asshole bully. They know that's Trump, and they know it's not Harris. That's about it really. They want that, because they are drawn to authority, like all human beings are at some level. Authoritarianism is a scourge in politics, in corporations, and in family. It crops up continually.
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I've found this pretty confusing. There will always be an element of sales pitch in a democratic system but for it to work at all requires voters to be capable of rational decision making. It is always fair to ask how a message could have been presented better, but when people vote for an objectively worse choice without doing the bare minimum of evaluation the problem lies with them.
Scaff
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Here you go.
Edit: The original article: https://web.archive.org/web/2024111...rs-pennsylvania-economy-fascism-20241111.html
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Joey D
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Maybe I'm overly cynical, but while this view of humanity is awful, I think it's pretty accurate. A large part of Americans (and I assume elsewhere in the world) are idiots and will continue to be idiots. Trump and the Republicans have figured out how to speak to idiots, whereas the Democrats have not. Should the Democrats have to cater to the stupidest people? No, in a perfect world, they wouldn't have to, but we live in a world populated with morons.
I support democracy, which is why I ultimately voted for Harris despite not agreeing with many of her policies. However, I also know that most voters will not do the bare minimum to determine where they stand or what a candidate stands for. Still, to this day, many people believe Harris had an open border policy with Mexico despite her a.) not being the president and b.) the Biden administration never having an open border policy. People also believe that the only thing Harris did was tell migrants "not to come to the US," which is far from the only thing she did. To know what Biden's policy on the border is and what Harris did, you need to look at it and read it. A majority of people aren't going to do that. They're going to believe what the ads, the billboards, and the media tell them, which is why I say you need to spoon-feed it to people in bite-sized chunks and why I said you need to cater to those people.
Yes, voters should be informed before heading to the polls and should take the time to actually figure things out, but very few do. Of those who do research, many are duped by manipulated media or things that are straight-up lies. Of those who aren't tricked, even fewer actually understand what it all means, and when they go searching, they end up being at risk of being duped or manipulated again. The number is likely shockingly small when you get to the informed voter who understands and wasn't duped.
I still believe much of this goes back to schools not teaching critical thinking skills. People have lost the ability to look at something and use reason to wade through the information. The whole QAnon thing is ripe with that. You have to throw all reasoning out the window to think that Democrat elites are abducting children to perform Satanic rituals on them while drinking their blood and that somehow Trump is going to change all that despite being a pedophile rapist himself. That kind of stuff used to be reserved for you weird uncle who sat around smoking weed all day trying to convince people that aliens anally probed him; now it's mainstream.
I think social media is a huge reason why people have become dumber, too. We gave charismatic idiots a platform to be loud and reach other idiots. It doesn't help that the world's richest illegal immigrant is also running a social media site and can manipulate it to his will while reaching millions of people. Sure there were always charismatic idiots preaching, churches are full of them, but it was much harder to get that message out before everyone could essentially reach everyone.
And the thing is, I have no idea how you can fix this or if it can be fixed without destroying the country's founding principles. I don't think it can be, so we need to learn to live with stupid people.
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This is the point of contention. Either they're capable of rational action or not. If they aren't democracy is not viable. If they are it is, but steps may need to be taken to ensure that it works. I'm in the latter camp and if you're saying that a lack of education is responsible for poor decision making, it sounds like you're in the same camp.
You cited a possible reason above. It will take time to fix a cultural problem, but I don't see it as impossible at the moment. We haven't even tried.
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