2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[Yard_Sale]

Not your fault buddy. Blame public education, if anything

 

[Daniel]

Not your fault buddy. Blame public education, if anything

I understand. Sorry to hear it's that bad where you are. 🫂

 

[Imari]

"If liberals are so ****ing smart, how come they lose so goddamn always"

Who said liberals were smart? To paraphrase Johnny Carlin, the average human is shockingly stupid and half of them are even stupider than that.

It's idiots all the way down. That's how we got here.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Who said liberals were smart? To paraphrase Johnny Carlin, the average human is shockingly stupid and half of them are even stupider than that.

It's idiots all the way down. That's how we got here.

It's a common sentiment felt by those who would make up the base for Farage/Trump/Wilders et al (even though most would never admit it). I think it stems from feelings of inadequacy.

 

[eran0004]

there is at a minimum, 6 sides to a house of cards

Four, if you count both sides of each card. Five if you count the hollow triangles and the empty base as sides.

 

[Keef]

Trump shouldn't be running but the Republicans couldn't suppress their fanatic cult to keep themselves alive. Biden shouldn't be running but the Democrats always make the wrong decision.

If Biden loses, it'll become yet another generational blame-game, as at the time, people under 30 years old voted heavily for Sanders in the primaries while as people got older they progressively voted more heavily for Biden. We Sanders voters are all about 35 and under now. I think the finger pointing toward older people and moderate Dems will fire up again. Sanders is still just as energetic and mindful as he ever was and has been on the correct side of virtually every issue.

But I suppose that's all water under the bridge now. You say Democrats always make the wrong decision but I think what you mean is people always make the wrong decision, and they know exactly who they are this time around.

 

[Kriptical]

Who said liberals were smart? To paraphrase Johnny Carlin, the average human is shockingly stupid and half of them are even stupider than that.

It's idiots all the way down. That's how we got here.

Hmm..

 

[Keef]

It seems clear that the politicians are aiming for unity and after these governor statements - including Whitmer - we can assume that the party's decision has been made. The party's pockets may be disagreeing. Over the next couple weeks we'll see how heavy the pressure gets or if it simply fades away.

 

[Danoff]

Nearly falling asleep on stage is not the flex he seems to think it is.

I'm frustrated that he seems to think that messaging that he's busy with running the country and so he doesn't have time to spend to be prepared for the debate is somehow a solid play. Winning the election is the most important thing going on in the US right now. The US foundations are crumbling, and the guy hammering at it wants a much bigger hammer.

 

[Keef]

Nearly falling asleep on stage is not the flex he seems to think it is.

I'm frustrated that he seems to think that messaging that he's busy with running the country and so he doesn't have time to spend to be prepared for the debate is somehow a solid play. Winning the election is the most important thing going on in the US right now. The US foundations are crumbling, and the guy hammering at it wants a much bigger hammer.

I'm unbothered by his take. Most of us young folks think these "debates" are a waste of time, a beauty pageant, where the only thing that gets highlighted is a candidate's charisma. I'd much rather my leader at whatever level be busy doing their job rather than being a good talker. But in general I find talkers to be less trustworthy than doers so maybe that's just personal preference. I sympathize with the fatigue an intense travel schedule causes because I do it often. A younger person could do it better than him for sure but it's still a total valid take.

 

[Danoff]

I'm unbothered by his take. Most of us young folks think these "debates" are a waste of time, a beauty pageant, where the only thing that gets highlighted is a candidate's charisma. I'd much rather my leader at whatever level be busy doing their job rather than being a good talker. But in general I find talkers to be less trustworthy than doers so maybe that's just personal preference. I sympathize with the fatigue an intense travel schedule causes because I do it often. A younger person could do it better than him for sure but it's still a total valid take.

The drop in his poll numbers suggest that the debate was not a waste of time, but actually the most important thing he could be focusing on. There is nothing I need him to do more than to win the election right now.

 

[TexRex]

Johnny Carlin

 

[Keef]

The drop in his poll numbers suggest that the debate was not a waste of time, but actually the most important thing he could be focusing on. There is nothing I need him to do more than to win the election right now.

Edit because the other one is private:



Show up.

Just a day after the debate the old man was feeling much better and was very self-aware, something Trump completely lacks.



Edit: Fully satisfied with what I just watched. Anybody talking about ousting the old man is just trying to sew chaos and sabotage party efforts to right the ship.

 

[Danoff]

Show up.

Just a day after the debate the old man was feeling much better and was very self-aware, something Trump completely lacks.



Edit: Fully satisfied with what I just watched. Anybody talking about ousting the old man is just trying to sew chaos and sabotage party efforts to right the ship.

I wish that guy had shown up to the debates instead of someone who couldn't finish a sentence. I don't agree with you that anyone talking about ousting him is a saboteur. I think he really hurt his re-election chances in the debate and a good showing at a rally is not going to erase the image of the old man that so many people have burned in their minds.

If he wants to win, I think he needs a better VP, because people won't be convinced that he'll make it through another 4 years. If he can't win, it doesn't matter whether he feels as old as he looked in the debate, someone else needs to have a go.

 

[Dennisch]

The man is 81. His family and friends should be telling him that it has been enough. At this point it's only going down hill with the occasional bright moment. Today he was the first black woman to serve in the White House. You can't have that sort of word fumbling when you're running for the toughest political job in the world.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Worth pointing out that the administration under Biden has always been very competent. The administration under Trump was uniquely chaotic. What are the odds that a second Biden administration will also be competent? The alternative doesn't bear thinking about. Don't forget Biden looked very shaky during the Democratic primary process for 2020 and suffered a boatload of gaffes throughout campiagning. He recovers pretty well and hasn't seemed to noticeably decline over the last five years, especially if we're using the frequency of gaffes as a metric.

Even if Biden is so deep into Alzheimer's such that he is seeing deceased relatives and thinking it's the 1950s by the time its November 5th, my above point still stands. You're primarily voting for administration itself and party platform, not the candidate. And I think enough of Biden's base and unaffiliated voters will see that to carry Biden to victory, especially considering the alternative.

 

[Kriptical]

In the past week, there may be more concern trolling, than the entire first decade of the century.

 

[Danoff]

Worth pointing out that the administration under Biden has always been very competent. The administration under Trump was uniquely chaotic. What are the odds that a second Biden administration will also be competent? The alternative doesn't bear thinking about. Don't forget Biden looked very shaky during the Democratic primary process for 2020 and suffered a boatload of gaffes throughout campiagning. He recovers pretty well and hasn't seemed to noticeably decline over the last five years, especially if we're using the frequency of gaffes as a metric.

Well his debate performance from 2020 was better for sure.

I agree that his administration has been fairly competent. Any comparison to Trump is unnecessary, because Trump suggested injecting bleach during covid. The Biden admin this last 4 years gets a decent grade. No perfect, but decent.

I still think the debate hurt him a lot. I think it might have cost him too much.

 

[GranTurNismo]

Well his debate performance from 2020 was better for sure.

I agree that his administration has been fairly competent. Any comparison to Trump is unnecessary, because Trump suggested injecting bleach during covid. The Biden admin this last 4 years gets a decent grade. No perfect, but decent.

I still think the debate hurt him a lot. I think it might have cost him too much.

I don’t see how it could have cost any more than his past history of gaffes or just by virtue of being an octogenarian, let alone his unabashed support for Israel’s genocide alienating many of the Arab and young voters who would have already (even if reluctantly) voted for him anyway but no longer will.

 

[05XR8]

It just amplified him at his age. I think someone mentioned in an above post, maybe Bernie Sanders would be a bit more tuned in at the same age.

 

[Danoff]

I don’t see how it could have cost any more than his past history of gaffes or just by virtue of being an octogenarian, let alone his unabashed support for Israel’s genocide alienating many of the Arab and young voters who would have already (even if reluctantly) voted for him anyway but no longer will.

You don't see how him being seemingly unable to put together complete sentences is worse than a gaffe?

 

[Tornado]

So, like, are there two Bidens? And if so, why do they ever let the other one out?

 

[TexRex]

Ah.

MAGA Gov Candidate’s Ugly, Hateful Rant: “Some Folks Need Killing!”

Mark Robinson, the GOP nominee for governor in North Carolina, has a long history of incendiary comments. But he may have topped himself this time.

newrepublic.com

Mark Robinson, the extremist GOP nominee for governor in North Carolina, appeared to endorse political violence in a bizarre and extended rant he delivered on June 30 in a small-town church.

“Some folks need killing!” Robinson, the state’s lieutenant governor, shouted during a roughly half-hour-long speech in Lake Church in the tiny town of White Lake, in the southeast corner of the state. “It’s time for somebody to say it. It’s not a matter of vengeance. It’s not a matter of being mean or spiteful. It’s a matter of necessity!”

Robinson’s call for the “killing” of “some folks” came during an extended diatribe in which he attacked an extraordinary assortment of enemies. These ranged from “people who have evil intent” to “wicked people” to those doing things like “torturing and murdering and raping” to socialists and Communists. He also invoked those supposedly undermining America’s founding ideals and leftists allegedly persecuting conservatives by canceling them and doxxing them online.

In all this, Robinson appeared to endorse lethal violence against these unnamed enemies, particularly on the left, though he wasn’t exactly clear on which “folks” are the ones who “need killing.”

Robinson, a self-described “MAGA Republican,” has a long history of wildly radical and unhinged moments. He has linked homosexuality to pedophilia, called for the arrest of trans women, pushed hallucinogenic antisemitic conspiracy theories, endorsed the vile “birther” conspiracy about Barack Obama, described Michelle Obama as a man, hinted at the need to violently oppose federal law enforcement and the government, and posted memes mocking and denying the brutal, violent assault on Nancy Pelosi’s husband, among many other things.

His latest rant is yet another example of an ugly game widely played on the MAGA right, one supercharged by Donald Trump. It entails hinting that right-wing political violence is necessary and justified because a ubiquitous, all-seeing, all-powerful leftist threat—one that is pure invention—is already supposedly attacking and persecuting conservatives on a mass scale.

Here’s what Robinson said:

We now find ourselves struggling with people who have evil intent. You know, there’s a time when we used to meet evil on the battlefield, and guess what we did to it? We killed it! … When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, what did we do? We flew to Japan! And we killed the Japanese Army and Navy! … We didn’t argue and capitulate and talk about, well, maybe we shouldn’t fight the Nazis that hard. No, they’re bad. Kill them. Some liberal somewhere is going to say that sounds awful. Too bad. Get mad at me if you want to.

Some folks need killing! It’s time for somebody to say it. It’s not a matter of vengeance. It’s not a matter of being mean or spiteful. It’s a matter of necessity! When you have wicked people doing wicked things, torturing and murdering and raping. It’s time to call out, uh, those guys in green and go have them handled. Or those boys in blue and have them go handle it.…

We need to start handling our business again.… Don’t you feel it slipping away? … The further we start sliding into making 1776 a distant memory and the tenets of socialism and communism start coming into clearer focus. They’re watching us. They’re listening to us. They’re tracking us. They get mad at you. They cancel you. They dox you. They kick you off social media. They come in and close down your business. Folks, it’s happening … because we have forgotten who we are.

Robinson might try to argue that he only meant that our enemies during World War II—and torturers and murderers and rapists today—deserve “killing.” But the sum total of his remarks plainly suggests otherwise. He seemed to analogize the need to kill World War II enemies to the need to kill enemies in the present, enemies who harbor “evil intent,” enemies conservatives are struggling against “now.”

What’s more, Robinson described those enemies in very broad terms. He suggested that conservatives will lose the spirit of 1776 (meaning their country) to enemies who harass them on social media and elsewhere unless they are prepared to unleash the army and cops to “handle” (i.e., kill) them. These appear to be the “folks” who “need killing.”

Indeed, when Robinson predicted that liberals will say “that sounds awful,” and “too bad,” he himself appeared to anticipate that his call for “killing” would be perceived as a call for political violence.

The Reverend Cameron McGill, the Pastor of Lake Church, confirmed to me that he and Robinson expected these remarks about “killing” to be “scrutinized,” but defended them.

“Without a doubt, those he deemed worthy of death [were] those seeking to kill us,” Pastor Cameron said in an email, adding that Robinson “certainly did not imply the taking of any innocent lives” and that the rest of his speech was “non-controversial.” There was no formal media presence during the speech, the Pastor confirmed.

This tendency on the right to invoke an infinitely hallucinogenic and malleable leftist enemy to justify in advance the political violence that the right itself wants to unleash on its enemies is a near-daily occurrence. Another ripe example came just this week from Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation, the brain trust behind Project 2025’s radical blueprint for MAGA authoritarian rule under a second Trump presidency.

“We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be,” Roberts declared.

In this, Roberts essentially said that if liberals and Democrats too vehemently resist MAGA’s intent to stock the government with corrupt loyalists to Trump and unleash mass persecution of the opposition, violence will be necessary to crush them—and if so, it will be their fault for not meekly accepting what they have coming to them. Meanwhile, Trump himself recently suggested that political violence may erupt if the presidential election isn’t conducted with “fairness” and is stolen from him, by which he really means, “if I don’t win.”

Robinson’s new comments are also notable for political reasons. They’re a reminder that the GOP nominee for governor in North Carolina is so extreme that the race to replace term-limited Governor Roy Cooper—Robinson is running against Democratic Attorney General Josh Stein—may prove competitive, even in this red-leaning state.

It is righteous and correct that he who calls to violence falls to violence.

 

[McLaren]

So, like, are there two Bidens? And if so, why do they ever let the other one out?

I'll never forget how Joe Rogan absolutely exposed him as a right-wing ding dong when he said, "He needs to drop out. You say stuff like that, you're done". And when Jamie pointed it out that Trump said it & Biden was mocking him, "Oh, he just goofed his words". Yeah, he "goofs" a lot from Revolutionary War Airports to electric boats to windmills, it's hilarious how quickly Trump supporters remember to get back in line when they're told whose actually saying these things.

 

[Keef]

I wish that guy had shown up to the debates instead of someone who couldn't finish a sentence. I don't agree with you that anyone talking about ousting him is a saboteur. I think he really hurt his re-election chances in the debate and a good showing at a rally is not going to erase the image of the old man that so many people have burned in their minds.

If he wants to win, I think he needs a better VP, because people won't be convinced that he'll make it through another 4 years. If he can't win, it doesn't matter whether he feels as old as he looked in the debate, someone else needs to have a go.

The man is 81. His family and friends should be telling him that it has been enough. At this point it's only going down hill with the occasional bright moment. Today he was the first black woman to serve in the White House. You can't have that sort of word fumbling when you're running for the toughest political job in the world.

People who have it burned into their minds are doing that to themselves. They're choosing to observe one thing and then close their mind to other options. For example...

You don't see how him being seemingly unable to put together complete sentences is worse than a gaffe?

You're basically ignoring the two things I posted, his NC rally from the day after the "debate" and his WI rally from today. I know you watched them but you're choosing to ignore them.

Well his debate performance from 2020 was better for sure.

I agree that his administration has been fairly competent. Any comparison to Trump is unnecessary, because Trump suggested injecting bleach during covid. The Biden admin this last 4 years gets a decent grade. No perfect, but decent.

I still think the debate hurt him a lot. I think it might have cost him too much.

You're also well aware that these "debates" we've held have almost always been a completely useless beauty pageant. Nothing of substance is discussed, it's literally only useful for measuring charisma which is one of the least important aspects of the job given how surrounded sitting presidents are by advisors and how scripted their official interactions are. A president doesn't even have to be likeable - Trump is immensely unlikeable, but he's charismatic. It doesn't really matter who he debates, talking is literally in his genes.

Worth pointing out that the administration under Biden has always been very competent. The administration under Trump was uniquely chaotic. What are the odds that a second Biden administration will also be competent? The alternative doesn't bear thinking about. Don't forget Biden looked very shaky during the Democratic primary process for 2020 and suffered a boatload of gaffes throughout campiagning. He recovers pretty well and hasn't seemed to noticeably decline over the last five years, especially if we're using the frequency of gaffes as a metric.

Even if Biden is so deep into Alzheimer's such that he is seeing deceased relatives and thinking it's the 1950s by the time its November 5th, my above point still stands. You're primarily voting for administration itself and party platform, not the candidate. And I think enough of Biden's base and unaffiliated voters will see that to carry Biden to victory, especially considering the alternative.

This right here. We're not just choosing the old guy - he's got the final responsibility, just like my captains, but the captain doesn't fly without the rest of the crew, the dispatchers, the mechanics, the ground crew, etc etc. The whole administration has been working as epected with very little drama for 3.5 years now and it's incredibly vital that we make sure this standard continues. Trump's administration had zero stability, zero trust, zero faith that it would do the right thing at any given moment. One late-night event will only change that for a person of little faith, somebody who sways with the wind, who doesn't believe, and who most certainly is not an optimist.

It may have been a mistake but that's no reason not to stay the course and repair it. The self-awareness the old man has shown in his past couple appearances is enough to tell me that he's a real person that acknowledges the truth and our only other option is known chaos in the other party or creating chaos in this one. I don't like chaos, I like stability. So let's keep going. You need to get out of that Gen X slump and hop on the wagon, we got work to do.

 

[Imari]

So, like, are there two Bidens? And if so, why do they ever let the other one out?

I feel like he does okay when he's doing something that's kinda prepared and scripted, but he falls apart when he's forced to respond on the fly. Which is understandable, but not a very presidential quality.

Trump is obviously in the same boat, but with Trump it just makes him seem even more unhinged. And since that's the quality that all his supporters like the most it only helps him. Trump could shart himself on Fifth Avenue and he wouldn't lose any votes.

 

[Keef]

but not a very presidential quality.

I've mentioned this several times lately and I mostly disagree with this. The man is not a king, but even kings have advisors. Every decision a president makes is briefed ad nauseum, official trips and meetings are relatively scripted, nothing happens off the cuff. I think quick wit is probably one of the least important presidential qualities with respect to how an administration actually works. It sells, it gets votes, but that's exactly the type of shallow charisma pandering that we should be aware of and shouldn't fall for.

Trump always has something to say. Sometimes it completely nonsense but it flows out and sounds charismatic. If you want quick wit and a slick talker then he's your man. I assume that's not what you or any of these other people want which goes to show that it's irrelevant but it generates talking points.

This photo looks intense. I assure you that Obama's big smile and proper cheeseburger dressing technique didn't help him pull this decision out of his ass.

 

[Keef]

Ah.

MAGA Gov Candidate’s Ugly, Hateful Rant: “Some Folks Need Killing!”

Mark Robinson, the GOP nominee for governor in North Carolina, has a long history of incendiary comments. But he may have topped himself this time.

newrepublic.com

It is righteous and correct that he who calls to violence falls to violence.

Ah, I see what he's doing, he's getting better, but he's not quite at pro-gamer levels of racism. There's one key problem with his strategy.

So are we all convinced that regardless of what happens during these upcoming elections, we're still stuck with this whole MAGA mindset for at least another decade? I mean, at least they out themselves immediately so the investigations come easily, but it's still going to be exhausting having to roll my eyes constantly.

 

[Imari]

I've mentioned this several times lately and I mostly disagree with this. The man is not a king, but even kings have advisors. Every decision a president makes is briefed ad nauseum, official trips and meetings are relatively scripted, nothing happens off the cuff. I think quick wit is probably one of the least important presidential qualities with respect to how an administration actually works.

I'm not talking about a quick wit, and I'm well aware that Trump's ability to spew ******** off the cuff is also entirely useless in a presidential sense. I'm talking about the ability to think clearly under pressure (as much as standing in front of a crowd is pressure to a career politician) and to express oneself in a clear manner.

Even if decisions are mostly hashed out over longer periods of time, a president who can't put together a reasonably cogent answer to questions on the spot and maintain a train of thought for 30 seconds is not one who is likely to suddenly be able to be a shimmering beacon of insight and intellect behind closed doors. The guy is supposed to be the ultimate arbiter of decisions that cross his desk. Maybe it's rare that the president needs to flex that ability, and maybe it'll go just fine if the people around him just do their best. But in which case, why is he there at all?

If a baseball player struggled to get up a flight of stairs without stumbling and grabbing the rail we wouldn't say that it didn't matter because there are no stairs on a baseball field. We'd be saying that's a very basic application of some of the same skills that are needed on a baseball field, and it seems like he's probably going to also struggle playing actual baseball.

And to be double clear, I don't think Trump is any better in this regard either. He's worse, because he's both stupid and arrogant enough to not give a ****. Trump is still the greater evil of the two.

I think Biden is probably self-aware enough to defer to others when necessary, but at that point you're not really voting for Biden. You're voting for the people surrounding him. That's a fine choice and probably the right one in this situation, but it's not what this is being sold as. If people vote for "Biden", they should be aware that even it's less a vote for the man and more a vote for the team than it usually is.

Biden as a man is a remarkably uncompelling choice as a leader, and were he against any reasonable opponent from before 2016 he would be getting absolutely crushed. His main electable quality remains that he is not Donald Trump.

Also, at this point the president is the king. That's where the US has gone, whether people like it or not. The decision to make the president entirely immune for official acts makes them functionally a king. Which is just hilarious, because the same problem is going to exist. Good kings don't abuse the power, bad ones absolutely will. Good kings use experts and advisors appropriately, bad ones are dictators.

And even if Biden wins this time, it's a ticking clock before Trump or some other narcissist grifter rapist snake oil salesman gets in. I'd be surprised if it takes 10 years, let alone 20.

 

[GBO Possum]

So are we all convinced that regardless of what happens during these upcoming elections, we're still stuck with this whole MAGA mindset for at least another decade? I mean, at least they out themselves immediately so the investigations come easily, but it's still going to be exhausting having to roll my eyes constantly.

We have been stuck with the MAGA mindset since pre-civil war days. It's just that Trump gave them his dark permissions to reveal their true inner selves so many times that these days, they just come out and say it. They're like cockroaches, shine a light and they scuttle away, but they are still there waiting for dark days. Well, the dark days are here.

Opinion | Donald Trump’s Racism: The Definitive List, Updated (Published 2018)

The media uses euphemisms. Here’s the truth: President Trump is a racist.

nyti.ms