350 Touge Battle! (Results in post #2)

[Kent]

The public is allowed to vote for their favorite car using this poll. The Poll is only open for two weeks so be sure to test and vote quickly.

Judges will grade the cars on a 1-100 scale (100 being a perfect car). Upon completion of judgement for all cars, each judge's grades should be posted in this thread and the results will be linked in reply #2.

Be sure to test each car on Citti Di Aria.

The list of entries... (as submitted by the tuners)
Entry #1
BMW Z4 3.0i '03

Parts:
Stage 1 Weight Reduction: +78 kg Ballast (Front/Rear Balance: -1)
Sports Soft Tires (S3)
Full Custom Race Suspension
Full Custom Race Transmission
Twin-plate Clutch
Sports Flywheel
Port & Polish
Engine Balancing
Racing Chip
Sports Exhaust
Racing Brakes
Brake Balancer (3/3)
Oil change
Stage 1 NA Tuning

Settings:
All settings are stock unless otherwise noted.

Full Custom Transmission:
1st gear - 3,795
2nd gear - 2,500
3rd gear - 1,670
4th gear - 1,230
5th gear - 1,000
6th gear - 0,850
Final - 3,230
Auto settings: 13

Full Custom Racing Suspension:
(Front/Rear)
10.5/9.0 Springs
96/96 Ride Height
8/8 Bound
8/8 Rebound
2.0/1.5 Camber
0/0 Toe
5/5 Stabilizers

No driving aids

Entry #2
Car: Tommykaira ZZ-S
power: 350bhp flat
weight:627kg

partsil change, GT-wing, semi-racing exhaust, racing chip, sports soft tyres, turbine kit stage 3, racing brakes, brake balance controller, weight reduction stage 3, port polish, engine balancing, racing suspension, FC gearbox, triple plate clutch, racing flywheel, FC LSD

BBC: 9/9

suspension
SR: 2.5/3.6
RH: 100/100
DBS:6/4
DRBS: 4/6
camber 2.5/1.5
toe: 0/2
Stabilizer 2/3

transmission

auto 14

final 4250

1st: 2.145
2nd: 1.661
3rd: 1.229
4th: 1.021
5th: 0.850
6th: 0.700

downforce 30/30

LSD
I:30
A:10
D:7

Entry #3
Holden Monaro CV8 barbados metallic
S3 tyres triple clutch racing flywheel
TCS and asm off rest stock 333bhp
*Note from Kent: Everything is to be stock except what is listed.

Entry #4
Summary:
Car: Toyota RSC (Concept Car)
Engine Type: (?)
Displacement: (?)
Power: 349 (?) HP
Torque: (?)
Dimensions: 4115x1850x1550
Drive train: 4WD

Tuning Parts:
Exhaust: Racing exhaust & air filter;
Brakes:
Racing Brakes kit;
Brake Controller;
Engine:
Stage 1 NA tuning;
Port Polish;
Engine Balancing;
Racing Chip;
Drive train:
Transmission / Fully Customizable;
Twin Clutch;
Racing Flywheel;
Variable LSD;
Suspension: Semi-racing suspension kit;
Tyres: Sport Soft;
Other: Weight reduction Stage1;

Settings:
Exhaust: Racing;
Computer type: Equip;
NA tune- up: Stage 1;
Tyres: Sport Soft
Brakes: Racing
Brake Balance Controller: Brake Controller: F- 7 / R – 14;
Suspension: Semi-racing:
Spring rate: F-5.0/R-4.5;
Ride height: F-170/R-170;
Damper: F-8/F-8;
Camber angle: F-1.5/r-1.0;
Transmission: Fully Customizable:
1st: 3.663;
2nd:2.607;
3rd: 1.967;
4th: 1.550;
5th: 1.217;
6th: 0.960;
Final: 4.285;
Auto: 5
Clutch: Twin-Plate;
Flywheel: Racing;
LSD: Fully Customizable:
Initial Torque: F-20/R-20;
LSD accel.: F-60/R-60;
LSD decel: F- 10/R-10;
Driving Aids: NONE (0/0/0)

Entry #5
MR2 G-Limited (10km was used but not required)
L4OHC
1998cc
314hp/7000rpm
299.29nm/6000rpm
1073kg
Parts:
racing exhaust & airfilter
racing brakes kit
brake controller
port polish
engine balancing
racing chip
supercharger
transmission fully customisable
triple clutch/racing flywheel/variable lsd/
fully customisable suspension
s2 tires
weiht redution 3/increase rigidity/body rigidity refrecher plan
SUSPENSION KIT:
spring rate:12.8/13.8
ride height:105/105
damper bounce:8/8
damper rebound:8/8
camber angle:2.0/1.0
toe angle:0/0
stabiliser:6/6
GEAR RATIOS:
1-2.963
2-2.033
3-1.501
4-1.161
5-0.940
6-0.797
final-4.312
auto settings-11

Finally, I would like to thank all the tuners and judges for their participation... If this goes well I expect to see a Touge 200 challenge going up shortly!

Remember, test the cars as specified.
Do not vote until you have tested (which I'm sure will be ignored ).

Judges, grade on a 100 point scale and post your findings when you are ready.

The contest will be concluded when all judges have posted their findings and the poll has closed.

Other than that, ask any questions you may have and be sure to have fun with the testing!

 

[Kent]

The Results

First Place:
Tie between the Z4 by Azevedojose and the ZZ-S by Leonidae

Third Place:
The Monaro CV8 by Holdenhsvgtsr

Fourth Place:
The RSC by LdS

Fifth Place:
The MR2 by Serge.Denayer

I thank each of you for taking part in this event. Hopefully we can have this much fun again soon!

Please feel free to join in the Tie Breaker found Here!​

 

[Leonidae]

ah, just to be sure: can you keep an eye on the voting thing so that the tuners won't vote their own cars?💡

 

[Diego440]

Alright, so after a pretty productive (GT4-wise) weekend in which I finished my Nurb challenge, I managed to get around to doing these tests. So, first the one I think was best:

Toyota RSC (90 points)
I was at first a bit ticked about tuning this one since I only have one and it's a proze car for a race I could't care less about redoing, but such is life. From what I've been able to learn from Touge driving, a lot of sliding (drifting and powersliding) is involved, and always within the borders of control. With that said, out of all the cars tested, this one was the least unpredictable, yet I could confidently throw it around the curves, and despite sliding a bit too much on the front end (at times), I felt more inclined to do so again.

The gears are pretty close, and to me that gives mroe points than a car with wider gears, but I give it points because at no point did I hit the rev limiter and I think the gears were perfectly spaced for such a twisting course. I was never underpowered and always with a good amount of gearbox power.

The car in general, with all the sliding, grips well when flooring it at almost standstills, although drifting a bit here and there. I ran a total of ten laps with each car, and with this one, my best time was 1'38.575.


With all that said, here are the others:

- Holden Monaro CV8: 82 points. This car handles awesomely, and I'd even say it was better than the RSC, but since I think this Battle requires tuning, which is something the Holden was lacking. It only had a gearbox quickening improvement... true, the car handled like a dream, but it wasn't tuned. It seems like the person who submitted it just found a good handling car and put a good clutch and flywheel combo. Best lap: 1'42.062

- Tommykaira ZZ-S: 75 points. Great car to handle in long curves, since it holds to the road perfectly, but on the tight parts I had a hard time staying away from the walls. And since this course has a lot of tight curves, I had to go down to 1st gear a lot, and despite throttle control, I had a hard time not spinning my wheels. Best lap: 1'33.348

- Toyota MR2: 72 points. I liked the way this car was tuned, but I think such tuning would be better for a track that isn't so tight. Out of the 10 laps I did with all the cars, the first five with this one were just learning it... the car is too tail happy for my taste (on this track, must be awesome on more open ones). Whenever I had a long straight, it was wonderful to floor, though. Best lap: 1'40.049

- BMW Z4: 68 points. This car I didn't like much, but mostly because it has the potential to be a great car, but it wasn't very well tuned, for my taste. I was honestly expecting Amuse S2000-like quality, which I've experienced with this car when highly tuned, but all of it was lacking in this specific test. perhaps a bit more tuning (engine-wise and suspension-wise) would greatly improve its chances of getting a higher position. Best lap: 1'41.874

All in all, I have to say I was expecting S2000s, MX-5s and other FR small cars... I was kinda disappointed none were submitted (save for the Z4). After I tried all the cars I took a few laps around the track with the Amuse S2000 R1 and felt exactly what I was looking for. Perhaps something to consider for next Touge Challenge?

Lastly, great work everyone. I was very happy to be able to test other people's settings and have a go around this great track.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

Here it goes, my review.

I tested the car in two different manners, 1st the car without any tune setup, only whit the bought parts, and 2nd, with the tune setup (and make notes off course).

Toyota RSC – 92pts.
I liked to drove this car, it had a good handling. The cars has some spinning’s, but the cars stabilizes quickly, giving you a feeling of a tuner car (like the cars in last NFS series). Some of spinning can also be explained, because the brake controller was set to oversteer, something that I like in brakes controllers: “If you have to brake, why can’t it help you turning down the corner?”.
The gearbox was fantastic and very adequate to the course, quick in the beginning, being more long in the 2 end gears, that gives a quick acceleration (Appropriated fore courses whit many curves) and a maintenance speed (in the more long straits).
If this car had a fully customizable suspension, it would be perfect, but the tuning it’s also good whit the semi-racing suspension, showing that you can also have a good tuning, whit a cheaper suspension.

Tommy Kaira ZZ-S – 87pts.
This car also spins, and its spines alot more than rsc. But I think that the combination of Handling/Speed its well represented, counting that normally the speed compromises the handling. The cars it’s a bite to fast for the course, being that I had to start braking 1 mile back. But was well tuned, counting that the car it’s a spinner for nature.
The gearbox are good, could be a bite better, but they are good.

BMW Z4 – 83pts.
Ok, this cars has a good handling, but I think it could do a lot better, it can have a better handling.
I didn’t liked the gearbox. I think it is inappropriate for this course. It made the car to have a slow development, and when it has the whished motor development…a ok …its time to brake, I have a curve ahead. Speaking of breaks, I hate when the break controller its bought and it is not used, that makes a waste of good GT money.
One funny thing it’s that, the car without any tune setup, only whit the bought parts, its more quicker than whit the tune setup, and there aren’t many differences in the handling.

Holden Monaro – 80pts.
I’m going to kill the one that submitted this car in this way!!! This car, well tuned, has the potential to be the best car in this competition. It handles so well, but I think that it could do even better, it could handle even better that it handles.
The gearbox also needed some work, and it wasn’t bad idea to had some exhaust to give the car a better sound to the car.
This car had all the potential, and in the way it was submitted look incomplete. For that I have to penalize the tuner.

Toyota MR2 – 74pts.
This was the most difficult car to judge…I don’t like the handling of it, it spins a lot. Every time I turn, I have to be careful not to spin around.
I know the car its very spiny for nature, and I recognize the tuner did a good work tuning it, but I think one thing that the submitters have to think – what car suits better for that course….hmm..Citta di Aira (for example) is a tight course, so big cars, spinning cars and fast cars aren’t good. – This is my way of thinking, and I think this car would be better in other course.
The gear box of this car was good, but one thing troubles me. It doesn’t exist any supercharger or any turbo for this car (at least on my GT4). So I tested the car whit and without Stage 3 NA Tuning.
This is another car that the brake controller was bought but wasn’t used.

This was my reviewing, and I hope it would exist more challenges like this…whit (I don’t know) cars whit a certain criteria (200hp, 500hp, sports, casual, 70s cars, 80s cars&#8230.
I’ve enjoyed testing the cars, and learned more.
All my support to all tuners
LdS

 

[Touring Mars]

First off, I think this contest was a very nice idea - judging cars purely on their drivability surely has to be something that you can only really do in Gran Turismo, so thanks to Kent for coming up with a great concept and for inviting me to take part 👍

Very mixed bag of entries, some pleasant surprises, some disappointments, but all of them different and interesting, so well done to everyone who took part 👍 What I was looking for around the streets of Assisi was a car that could handle the tight, winding corners well and one that was tuned to be able to cope with the slow corners and was able to accelerate well out of the slow parts,

So here's what I thought:

1. BMW Z4 3.0i '03

A very pleasant surprise. The car was well-balanced and went exactly where I wanted it to go. The car coped very well with braking - many places in Assisi require unconventional lines into slow corners, and so good handling under braking was essential. I did notice a slight amount of understeer, though, but nothing too much to be a real problem. The gearbox was also set-up well for my driving style (i.e. boring) and acceleration was good out of the slow turns, so overall I really enjoyed driving it. Lap: 1.42:534

2. Tommykaira ZZ-S

Quirky and fun to drive, this little beast really scampered around the track fast. After a bit of getting used to, this car really handled well, although there was a bit of understeer here too. The car was a bit too powerful/light for this set up, though. A major downfall of this set up was that there was no specified driving aids settings. As a result, I only tested it will full driving aids and with none, and it made a big difference in the handling - wheelspin was a big problem without the TCS and handling/cornering suffered when it was on. All in all, it was an exciting drive, but not my favourite. Lap: 1.34:145

3. Holden Monaro CV8

Another pleasant surprise. Wasn't expecting much, esp. considering that it was pretty much un-tuned. But for a big car, it handles supremely well and it has great acceleration out of the slow corners and seemed to be well-suited to the track in general. The car did get slightly leary under braking, so a bit of work on the brakes and suspension could have helped. Alot of potential went to waste in this car, though, but it was a pleasure to drive. Lap: 1.41:359

4. Toyota RSC

I found this car to be something of a handful. On the plus side, it's fast coming uphill and a challenge to drive - you could certainly throw it about more than the others, and just about get away with it! But the problems out-weighed the good points for me. The gears were packed so tight, I was chopping and changing gears constantly. The course is tricky enough without having to work so hard to find the sweep spot every few seconds. The car was very twitchy under braking, and suffered from wheelspin coming out of slow corners. My biggest gripe was that the car would understeer horribly unless you dropped to a lower gear, which usually meant a double downshift - which there was a lot of. All in all, a quick ride but too much like hard work, which a little ironing out could probably have fixed. Lap: 1.38:054

5. Toyota MR2 G-Limited

This was my biggest disappointment. It was difficult to buy to begin with, scandalously expensive with all the parts (some of which were unused or superfluous) and again, no driving aid information was specified, which made judging the tuning characteristics difficult, since the TCS/ASM settings play a major role in the handling. I found the car very difficult to stop from spinning, as it fishtailed alot, and was badly behaved under braking. A bit frustrating to drive, especially around Assisi. Lap: 1.41:325

Scores:

1. BMW Z4 3.0i '03 - 87 Pts
2. Holden Monaro CV8 - 82 Pts
3. Tommykaira ZZ-S - 75 Pts
4. Toyota RSC - 67 Pts
5. Toyota MR2 G-Limited - 58 Pts

P.S. I didn't vote in the thread, was I s'pose to?

 

[Kent]

I thank all of you for your replies.
This was more fun than I had expected when I initially saw the car list. The lack of cars like the RX7, 350Z, NSX, and underdog Silvia bummed me out. Fortunately, I was given the chance to test cars that felt like they represented a diverse collection of driving practices. Everything from drift to rally ran through my mind.

My impressions of each car individually...

Entry #1: BMW Z4
The Z4 impressed me. The handling was very predictable for both acceleration and braking. Understeer would show up every now and again but the overall performance was suited for easy driving. I liked this car.

Entry #2:Tommy Kaira ZZ-S
To the Extreme!!! Definately a tricky car to handle. This is easily the fastest car of the group. The tires seemed to be holding the car back from reaching full potential. Racing tires would set this car on a pace faster than almost any racer with similar horsepower. Definately a fast drive. The lacking grip seemed to be a problem and the tendancy to oversteer and understeer became fairly unpredictable. Driving this car 100% clean for OLR would be scarey.

Entry #3: Holden Monaro CV8
Naturally balanced, the Monaro has a great engine and manages its weight well. However, this particular car is totally out-classed among these tuned street cars. With futher tuning to the suspension and a serious diet, the Monaro will be a serious contender but as it is, the Monaro was nothing more than a good car in stock trim racing against well tuned sports cars. I felt this car would bring up the pack's rear.

Entry #4: Toyota RSC Concept Car
Very well tuned considering the car isn't well suited for this kind of challenge, that fact earned great credit in my opinion. Understeer during acceleration was an issue but with proper driving technique the understeer could be overcome. The brake balance controller was well adjusted for excellent turn-in during braking but that also made it possible to lose control of the vehicle in an instant if the driver was to ease up for a moment.

Entry #5: Toyota MR2 G-Limited
A bit more drift than grip, this car was a bunch of fun to drive. The handling was a bit tricky since drifting came naturally but overall the handling was good. One problem was how difficult the car was to correct when things went wrong. Had the MR2 seemed more friendly to longer races I would have graded it better. Definately a unique car though and certainly my pick for any sort of special award!

Results
1) BMW Z4 - 85
2) ZZ-S - 82
3) RSC Concept - 80
4) MR2 G-Limited - 78
5) Monaro CV8 - 75

Regarding results...
I will address the results after the poll has closed.

 

[Diego440]

I'm impressed at the difference of opinions among the judges. Out of all, I would've thought my impressions would be very similar to Mars' since we both have very similar driving styles. Except I drive better

J/K

 

[azevedojose]

Looks like the poll has ended. Despite the number of entries and votes being low, it was worth it Kent. Thanks for putting this touge idea up. 👍

Thanks for all the feedback left on my Z4 and also for your votes. I'm really glad some of you enjoyed my car.

 

[Scaff]

First my apologies for the late arrival of my results, my excuse is 14 hour days for the last three weeks have kind of limited my time, but here we go.

BMW Z4
The car felt more than a little over-damped for this track which did result in quite a heavy understeer bias unless weight was firmly over the front tyres. A characteristic that mainly showed itself through the faster corners, it was a lot more manageable through the slower sections when the load to the front provided more grip. Overall the car felt like hard work to get the most out of and unfortunately not as much fun as I though it would be.

Score – 70%


Tommy Kaira ZZ-S
Fast and tricky on the limit, but the car felt just the right size for the track. It did demand a very smooth approach even when getting the back end to step out and it punished hard if you overstepped the limit too much. As with the Z4 it was hard to get the best out of the car, the difference however was that it was fun trying to do so.

Score – 80%


Monaro CV8
A car with wonderful character and one I have a soft spot for, so I do have to declare a slight bias here. Despite some initial misgivings about the cars size, it seemed to shrink as I drove it around the narrow streets, with an excellent balance between under and over steer. Very predictable, easy to exploit and all round fun.

Score – 85%


Toyota RSC
An interesting choice; but not a successful one for me. A high ride height resulted in body roll of a quite alarming degree and the degree of weight transfer made the car very unwieldy and unlike the Monaro it did not shrink around you on this track. To much understeer on the fast corners and instability under braking from higher speed didn’t help the car at all.

All in all to unwieldy for the track and too much MPV in its genes for my tastes.

Score – 65%


Toyota MR2
Initial impressions are of a car that’s eager to turn in and with good rotation allowing a high degree of manoeuvrability. Unfortunately that’s all for nothing the first time you come across even the slightest bump, with the car being set-up far too stiffly in all areas. While this would certainly be a benefit on an open smooth race track, all it does here is stop you easily exploiting the full width of the track. On such a narrow road such as this you need to use every inch of the track and the MR2 just didn’t allow me to do that.

It’s a shame as a bit of time working on the suspension set-up could have made this a great car for this road, unfortunately its just to frustrating and limiting.

Score – 65%


Regards

Scaff

 

[Leonidae]

Hmmm.. I thought that my ZZ-S would do bit better.. oh well, it indeed has bit too much power for those tyres, and the turbo kick doesn't help that too much. under 300bhp could hadd suited this setup better, and especially the tyres. being lighter and slightly more powerful than MS Elise ( which was my first option but got discarded because it's too obvious) it gives a good competition to 500bhp+ cars. feel free to equip it with better tyres and have a blast.👍

 

[Touring Mars]

To be fair to you, everyone who has written up their results has put the ZZ-S 2nd except for me, and it was a close run thing - I reckon if I had had more info on the TCS/ASM for this car, it might even have won for me. Great job anyway. I don't like the car, but I am glad to have a very well-tuned one (The Leonidae Limited Edition ) in my garage 👍 Also, their is a much bigger difference of opinion about the other cars, so you never know - consistency may work out well in your favour!!

 

[Diego440]

and to be further more honest, because I have like a gazillion billion credits, I bought every car again for this competition (and re-won the RSC ). After testing the cars, I sold back some of them, and only kept the ones which had a suspension set-up I liked. Those were the RSC and the ZZ-S (awesome on R3s) 👍

 

[Touring Mars]

I was going to mention that I found it expensive to take part in this. I only had 3.3 million Cr to start with and now I have under 2.7 million

 

[Diego440]

I was going to mention that I found it expensive to take part in this. I only had 3.3 million Cr to start with and now I have under 2.7 million

didn't you get a free gamesave after the LAN? I got one from Famine with all the cars in the game (used cars at 0.0 kms) and even duplicates on licence cars (like the Model T)... oh and so much money it's ridiculous. Something like 15 groups of 3 numbers.

 

[Touring Mars]

Ah nuts! I didn't think my card was used, but it turns out I do have 'Roger's' gamesave too...

 

[Diego440]

Ah nuts! I didn't think my card was used, but it turns out I do have 'Roger's' gamesave too...

they should make a larger version of this smiley... just for you

Why is it called Rogers?

 

[Venari]

This looked like fun. My submission was going to be the RUF BTR, with good suspension tune. It's a hoot around Cd'A and just the thing for this 'Touge' stuff from what I gather (I've not heard the phrase before - can someone give me a one sentence enlightenment to dash/confirm my assumptions?)

V.

 

[Nicknamealguem]

I was going to mention that I found it expensive to take part in this. I only had 3.3 million Cr to start with and now I have under 2.7 million

You are not alone. Not to mention the hours spent testing the cars (for me, one hour for each car).
But I think the fun was rewarding enough. 👍 We are here to cheer up this big HUGE community of Gran Turismo. It is easy to get the money back (24 hours around Seattle) .
I hope to see more of this kind of challenges.👍

Gran Turismo 4 life

 

[Kent]

I was very pleased with seeing such diverse results. That's exactly what the touge showdown was all about from the get-go. We decided an individual's subjective opinion should be respected as much as any other measure of quality.

That said, I've started the ball rolling on a final discussion of the scoring, judgements, averages, and public poll. 👍

I doubt we, the judges will diliberate (in private) for more than a week (at most). Thanks and until I have more info.

Judges, please check your PM box.

 

[Touring Mars]

Why is it called Rogers?

Because the guy who made the gamesave was called Simon

Nah, I suspect the gamesave might have originally come from this chap, although I'm probably wrong.

 

[Kent]

Results are in (post #2)...

Thanks for taking part everyone. Have fun waiting for the next one (I'm hoping we can make that happen!).

Until next time,
thanks again for participating and keeping up!