GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on July 28th, 2017 in the FIA WEC category.
Is LMP1 Dead? Now Porsche Has Cancelled Its Program Too
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- Phoenix, AZ
- GTP_Snaeper
The ACO needs to throw out the rulebook for future prototype development. Essentially set some basic parameters regarding safety and maybe a speed requirement, but otherwise let manufacturers build Garage 56 style cars for the top class without the fear of it being a 1-race one off.
Otherwise they need to focus on the endurance racing product and look at adapting the DPi formula, but they have been bullish on that in the past. At this point though, it looks like IMSA did it right.
I don't think the Privateer class is a good fit for the top class due to the speed and reliability (and numbers) of the LMP2 cars. On top of that, I don't think the LMP1-L cars will be technologically advanced enough to be worthy of top billing, not to mention they'll feel like a stop gap while more and more manufacturers flock to Formula E. I don't think LMP1-L is a solution.
Otherwise they need to focus on the endurance racing product and look at adapting the DPi formula, but they have been bullish on that in the past. At this point though, it looks like IMSA did it right.
I don't think the Privateer class is a good fit for the top class due to the speed and reliability (and numbers) of the LMP2 cars. On top of that, I don't think the LMP1-L cars will be technologically advanced enough to be worthy of top billing, not to mention they'll feel like a stop gap while more and more manufacturers flock to Formula E. I don't think LMP1-L is a solution.
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- GTPlanet
- Street-King-07
- Quattro Saltire
The LMP hybrid era is clearly on death's door. The increase in privateer teams may only be a very short term solution but LMP1 as a whole is on very shaky ground until costs are reigned in massively.
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- GTP_Snaeper
I think the issue of costs needs to be proportionate to the amount of regulations enforced.
If you open the door to more liberal regulations within the class, manufacturers might look less at how much their spending if they're getting to develop the cars in the ways and directions they want to. But if you restrict what they can develop and how, without making a meaningful effort to reduce their costs, then we get what we're seeing now, with both VWAG cars gone.
The fact that LMP2 podium'd and almost won overall at Le Mans would make the prospects of any and every privateer LMP1 a shaky proposition. You'd have to have a dead-reliable prototype that also manages to be faster than those cars, and all within a budget that justifies the difference between the two. At which point the ACO asks itself, "If this is what we're getting stuck with, why not just bring over DPi?" Because I think a lot of people would rather see DPi-style cars racing for the overall lead rather than LMP1-L's and manufacturers are far more likely to show up to every race on the schedule where some LMP1-L has recently been a volatile class when it comes to attendance.
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- DanPrez
ACO and FIA need to do something quick. Toyota might leave now as well. With no competition, there isn't much of a reason to remain for them. Best solution right now? Slow down the LMP2 (too fast right now anyway) and open up for DPi. Mazda, Cadillac & Co. would be there in no time. DPi might be an interesting concept for some european manufacturers, too... like Peugeot. It would be a shame if the whole WEC would be in danger because of this. The GTE class is such marvelous motorsport.
- 3,176
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
LMP1 is far from dead as the title suggests.
LMP1-H (hybrid) looks on the decline for sure but the program is way too expensive anyway, Audi and Porsche stepping out is not the problem, only 3 car manufacturers in it to begin with (because of the high costs) is the main problem for several years already.
LMP1-L (light, no hybrid) is the future of LMP1. Its cost is far lower than that of the hybrids and there will be several privateer teams joining Bykolles in 2018.
Have we seen the end of LMP1-H? I think so yes but with the massive increase in media attention LMP1-L will no doubt get, I think the short term future lies there.
But I'm curious what the ACO will come up with next.
For the record, Toyota probably won't be able to win the world title at Le Mans next year either since with only 1 car in LMP1-H there is talk it would become a cup class. That is if Toyota doesn't decide to pull the plug for 2018 either...
LMP1-H (hybrid) looks on the decline for sure but the program is way too expensive anyway, Audi and Porsche stepping out is not the problem, only 3 car manufacturers in it to begin with (because of the high costs) is the main problem for several years already.
LMP1-L (light, no hybrid) is the future of LMP1. Its cost is far lower than that of the hybrids and there will be several privateer teams joining Bykolles in 2018.
Have we seen the end of LMP1-H? I think so yes but with the massive increase in media attention LMP1-L will no doubt get, I think the short term future lies there.
But I'm curious what the ACO will come up with next.
For the record, Toyota probably won't be able to win the world title at Le Mans next year either since with only 1 car in LMP1-H there is talk it would become a cup class. That is if Toyota doesn't decide to pull the plug for 2018 either...
- 86,783
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- GTP_Famine
The title doesn't suggest anything. It asks a question. There's a question mark.
I've heard that Ginetta is making LMP1 chassis, but I've not heard who's buying them at £2m a pop. I've heard that BR Engineering is making one too, but again I don't know who's buying them. Rebellion is unlikely to abandon LMP2 again after just one year, though might be on the table for 2019...
... but then the rules will change for 2020. Porsche and Toyota have been heavily involved with the discussions over the new rules, which explains part of FIA WEC's terse response.
Tired Tyres
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- Tired Tyres
Never been a better time to buy an LMP1-L. You stand an outstandingly good chance of winning Le Mans outright.
Anybody thinking DPi forget it. It's not an ACO category. It won't happen. They are far more likely to create a pro only version of LMP2 and rename it.
Anybody thinking DPi forget it. It's not an ACO category. It won't happen. They are far more likely to create a pro only version of LMP2 and rename it.
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- DanPrez
LMP2 isn't open for car manufacturers, it is a private class. But yeah, they could create an LMP2 category for professional manufacturers... which is DPi basically.
It is complicated, tough. Who should fight for the overall victory in Le Mans?
LMP 1 Hybrid? Too expensive. Nobody dares to jump into this, instead, everybody is leaving.
LMP 1 without hybrid? As of now, not open for Manufacturers. Could be changed. Problem is: Many brands want to show off their fancy hybrid or electric tech and they won't be able to do it here.
LMP 2 as overall winner? Again, not open for Manufacturers. What to do with all the private teams?
DPi? Thats basically LMP2 with different engines and changes in chassis design. Attractive solution for brands like Cadillac, Mazda, Acura. I'm sure they want to do Le Mans but what about the whole WEC championship? I know there are brands who are not interested in DPi because they won't be able to show off their fancy tech there... like BMW or Mercedes.
Some say GTE should be the new top category. Its is successful, there are many great brands and cool cars. Problem is: LMP2 is way faster then GTE. Making LMP2 slower and GTE faster doesn't make much sense.
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The ACO has always been their own worst enemy. I agree that the future "could" be LMP1-L. It keeps the door open to a factory team which wants to just come and win LeMans (which has proven more difficult than expected recently). I'd love to see more customer cars in LMP1.
I do think the idea of the hybrid cars is so crazy expensive/high tech it's pretty much a turn off for most major manufacturers. It's really asking a hell of a lot from a manufacturer. What saddens me is the idea that Toyota may win Le Mans eventually, but if it's the sole LMP-1 Factory team, it takes a bit of the shine off.
I do think the idea of the hybrid cars is so crazy expensive/high tech it's pretty much a turn off for most major manufacturers. It's really asking a hell of a lot from a manufacturer. What saddens me is the idea that Toyota may win Le Mans eventually, but if it's the sole LMP-1 Factory team, it takes a bit of the shine off.
Yeah I agree. After this season LMP1 should be killed off. Let Lmp2 be top dog but rename it. GTE cars meanwhile should get a power bump and renamed to GT1 class. GT2 should be the now GT3... also Dpi should be introduced into LMP2. They just need to tighten things up now.
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- RacingAtHome
I hate that, I think Dpi cars are competitive . Maybe some years down the line some things may change though, there's always changes going in in automotive racing.
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- chop-uh
- Sr Crumbbiscuit
I was just wondering if either of those could open the door for Team Penske. Roger has said many times that a Le Mans win is the last item not yet crossed off his racing bucket list...
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- RacingAtHome
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- FMecha_EXE
I can see this happening: Toyota does cross the finish line first and Toyota immediately announces they're pulling plug on LMP1... only for their winning car getting disqualified hours after they announce their exit.
Silver Arrows
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This will never happen, not in a million years. Europeans don't want to see, and definitely don't want to use a bunch of, in their minds, low tech Yankee ******** as a base of their series.
Unfortunately for them, IMSA and the DPi program are flying high with constructors wanting to jump in alongside privateer entries, and LMP1 is turning into a lame duck class with only Toyota still left.
The fact that the WEC and ACO don't want to use a proven and effective base in the DPi program is mind boggling to me, but what can you do.
- 5,845
- Dublin
- Paul2007
As we know, there can be no LMP1-H World Championship without 2 manufacturers. There are options for next season and we, Toyota, have no plans to throw the towel in especially if Peugeot can be pushed a little more to join in 2019. A very long shot.
I hope you trust me when I say this, but this story is far from over for 2018...
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The WEC and FIA differ on that statement based on their press release. And it seems like Toyota is indifferent to Porsche leaving. DSC tweeted earlier that the misreported(?) "emergency meeting" at TMG either wasn't an emergency or wasn't on at all.
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Here's the tweet
I'd trust Graham over the likes of autosport on a situation like this.
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