Sony's 10,000 Nit TV at CES 2018

[hankolerd]

As many will have already seen, Sony was showing off a prototype LCD/LED tv at CES, capable of hitting 10,000 nits of peak brightness. The 85" screen was also sporting 8K resolution (4 times the pixels of 4k, or 16x 1080p). The word from the show floor is that it is a stark contrast to the already excellent Sony Z9D 4K tv capable of ~1,800 nits peak brightness (for the 75"). Because the TV is capable of 10,000 nits, it does not need to apply any tone-mapping to HDR content, and can display the darkest details and brightest highlights exactly as they were mastered by the production team. As many of you will remember, that 10,000 nits means this is the first TV capable of showing Gran Turismo Sport in its fully glory, which I suspect is several years ahead of when many people expected such a product to be available. However, this is just a prototype and my best guess is that a consumer product capable of this brightness is still 3+ years away from production.

This article from FlatpanelsHD made special mention of GT:S
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1515557746

Next to it was the Z9D, which is one of the brightest HDR TVs today. Side-by-side, Z9D looked almost like a conventional TV. The 10,000 nits prototype made pictures look so intense that it was almost like being there. Gran Turismo Sport looked particularly excellent.

While Sony did not appear to be showing native gameplay, they were showing the trailer. It is not clear to me (or probably anyone outside of Sony/PD) if the trailer was re-mastered to 10,000 nits for the show. Vincent Teoh from HDTVTest did capture some footage, and talks on his impressions of the TV (hint: he was blown away). But as you can probably guess by now, Youtube footage cannot do this display justice.


Digital Trends also captured some footage of GT:S running on the display, and came away with the same impression.


Here is one of the better comparison videos I have found that helps show the brightness difference compared to the Z9D, which is the smaller 75" tv on the right. But of course the camera capturing the footage, and the display you are watching this on, will be clipping the differences in both dark details and bright highlights even further then what you would see in real life.


If Sony can find a way to bring this technology down into a 4K 55"/65" panel in the next couple of years, I would certainly jump on board!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I hope the cars in GTS have working sun visors or those tracks with the low sun are going to be a real problem

 

[JacksHerer]

Yep on my cheapo non HDR 50" tv I've been tempted to wear sunglasses.

 

[bmxmitch]

I love this Asian guy in the first video! His reviews and TV settings are top notch!

Regarding the TV, are there any prices yet? Or guessings? I dont think I have enough organs to sell for this monster...

 

[Stotty]

Is this a back lit set?

I've got a JS9000 Samsung, and that will do c.2k nits, but the picture is not as good as my BIL's LG OLED that's only around 1k.

If this set is back lit, displaying 10k nits will just have the knock on effect of creating even bigger halos round bright objects on a dark background as back lit sets can't manage the extreme contrast OLEDs.

 

[th3o]

MicroLED will be the way to go anyways. You got the best of both worlds. Perfect blacks and infinite contrast as well as brightness of LED LCDs

For now i take a 700 nits OLED over a 2k nits LCD every day.
It produces for me the better image in games.

I had the Sony Z9D here with its 1800 or whatever nits and i found the games looked not as good as on the 1100 nits weaker LG B7

 

[MisterWaffles]

Before you get your hopes up, the picture in the thumbnail of the news article is NOT Gran Turismo Sport. Don't get excited for a Ferrari 488 coming anytime soon.

 

[RaceFuchs]

Looks like my next TV... in 5 years or so.

I'm surprised 8K is really a thing, because i wonder what kind of raw power is needed to showcase a game like GT Sports in real time and native 8K? PS4 Pro can't handle GT Sport in native 4K, so i wonder what the PS5 will do. A jump to native 8K? Sounds optimistic to me.

I also wonder what the next big thing really is. Playing a racing game on a 8K Super-HDR TV? Or playing it on the next generation of VR?? What do you guys think?

 

[hankolerd]

I love this Asian guy in the first video! His reviews and TV settings are top notch!

Regarding the TV, are there any prices yet? Or guessings? I dont think I have enough organs to sell for this monster...

Considering the 100" 4K Z9D is currently $60,000, IF Sony were able to produce this for market this year I would expect it for well over $100,000. But I don't anticipate something like this to come to market until late next year at the very earliest, more likely a year or two after that.

Is this a back lit set?

I've got a JS9000 Samsung, and that will do c.2k nits, but the picture is not as good as my BIL's LG OLED that's only around 1k.

If this set is back lit, displaying 10k nits will just have the knock on effect of creating even bigger halos round bright objects on a dark background as back lit sets can't manage the extreme contrast OLEDs.

I am not sure where you got the 2k nits number for your JS9000, it actually peaks ~450 nits, and the reason you see halos on the JS9000 is because it only has 16 dimmable zones. The 100" Sony Z9D has ~1,000 dimmable zones, which makes halos very nearly non-existent. This 85" Sony prototype is almost certainly an LCD/LED backlight just like the Z9D, and is also likely to be using 1,000+ individually dimmable zones as the Z9D as well. I went to my local Magnolia Hi-Fi recently and had a chance to see Sony Z9D and LG W7 OLED side by side the other day (as well the Sony A1E OLED and many other tv's). For my money the Z9D was right there with the OLED's, especially if you plan to use it in a room with ambient light. The Sony X900E looked great as well, and significantly undercuts both in pricing.

Sony and Samsung are both well known to be investing heavily into MicroLED technology, which will allow the brightness of LCD/LED, with individually controlled pixels that can be turned off completely for perfect blacks just like OLED. In fact, Samsung was showing of a 146-inch "TV" made up of many connectable MicroLED panels, which was awarded FlatPanelsHD Best of CES award.

Looks like my next TV... in 5 years or so.

I'm surprised 8K is really a thing, because i wonder what kind of raw power is needed to showcase a game like GT Sports in real time and native 8K? PS4 Pro can't handle GT Sport in native 4K, so i wonder what the PS5 will do. A jump to native 8K? Sounds optimistic to me.

I also wonder what the next big thing really is. Playing a racing game on a 8K Super-HDR TV? Or playing it on the next generation of VR?? What do you guys think?

8K is certainly not aimed for gaming folks But may just be the norm in 5-10 years time.

 

[ExoticMachines]

Before you get your hopes up, the picture in the thumbnail of the news article is NOT Gran Turismo Sport. Don't get excited for a Ferrari 488 coming anytime soon.

What game is that in the cover page anyway? Forza 7?

I was pretty excited to see the Ferrari 488 on the cover page until I saw your response.

I wonder why PD did not include the 488 in the game from the start? It's not like the 488 is car that just came out last year.

 

[Foofer37]

Really? I'm still working 4K HDR

 

[GT Sport]

Even things you can not imagine will be the standards after 10-20 years..

Also, I'm always watching the opening movie. Notice that we still haven't seen a pre-race action. With a Safety car at the start and a lot of people/crew members in the track.

I hope they add this with a future update or when Season 1 starts. With everyone doing a full lap with a safety car in the front.

And last but not least, no Gr.1 and Gr.B races in Sport mode so far.
Tired of 2 one-makes.

Ok this is off-topic.

 

[hankolerd]

What game is that in the cover page anyway? Forza 7?

I was pretty excited to see the Ferrari 488 on the cover page until I saw your response.

I wonder why PD did not include the 488 in the game from the start? It's not like the 488 is car that just came out last year.

It is not a game, the screen-grab is just HD footage of the Ferrari and Lamborghini, probably captured on one of Red's 8k cameras to help show off the panels native 8k resolution.

 

[samdu]

I had fully intended to skip 4K and wait for 8K. I remember a couple of years ago reading about some impressions of an 8K set (I think at CES) and the general consensus was that it was like looking through a window. Unfortunately, one of my 1080p TVs died and I found a killer deal on a 4K Bravia (Android OS was a selling point, too), so I made the jump. Really wish I could have held out, though. I suspect 8K is probably the end point for resolution. After that, there's not much more the human eye can perceive.

 

[TomBrady]

I love the OLED TV too. Ever since I first got a PS Vita, and a Samsung Galaxy S3, I swear by OLED. Nothing looks better. Even the Vita's 540p OLED screen from 2012 looks better than any TV I've ever seen. You can't beat the color and contrast levels. I'm really curious about HDR though.

And no surprise that Sony's using GT Sport to show off that TV. Even on a day 1 PS4, on a 1080p TV without HDR, it's easy to see there's nothing that could show off HDR better than this game. It's truly incredible. I would say any of those area rally events in the mission challenges would do a great job too. Especially the one with the wet track at night time.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I had fully intended to skip 4K and wait for 8K. I remember a couple of years ago reading about some impressions of an 8K set (I think at CES) and the general consensus was that it was like looking through a window. Unfortunately, one of my 1080p TVs died and I found a killer deal on a 4K Bravia (Android OS was a selling point, too), so I made the jump. Really wish I could have held out, though. I suspect 8K is probably the end point for resolution. After that, there's not much more the human eye can perceive.

There is for VR, 16K per eye over 160 degrees is about where you want to be for 20/20 vision. 8K on tv is a bit of a waste though, unless you can afford a 100" set and sit at max 5ft. It also depends on the material, all video content is still chroma subsampled so any 4K content is actually only 1080p when it comes to color.

I wonder if Sony will show off GTS in 8K with 4 ps4 pro's connected together, like they did with GT5 in 4K.

 

[ToyGTone]

Everyone's talking about this new 8K, 10000 nits, Sony TV and yet, I still haven't upgraded to an HDR or 4K TV yet.

 

[GT12252016]

Looks like my next TV... in 5 years or so.

I'm surprised 8K is really a thing, because i wonder what kind of raw power is needed to showcase a game like GT Sports in real time and native 8K? PS4 Pro can't handle GT Sport in native 4K, so i wonder what the PS5 will do. A jump to native 8K? Sounds optimistic to me.

I also wonder what the next big thing really is. Playing a racing game on a 8K Super-HDR TV? Or playing it on the next generation of VR?? What do you guys think?

It’s just the opening cinematic and not gameplay

 

[Fire Yoshi]

The part where they showed the yellow Lambo and the red Ferrari driving together reminded me a lot of the intro video to Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit 2.
I wonder if that was done on purpose. Almost seems like a very subtle tribute to the game.

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

Kaz has said GT Sport cars are modeled in 8k.

 

[ThePotatoKing]

What game is that in the cover page anyway? Forza 7?

I was pretty excited to see the Ferrari 488 on the cover page until I saw your response.

I wonder why PD did not include the 488 in the game from the start? It's not like the 488 is car that just came out last year.

Maybe for the same reason Deep Forest wasn't included in the game from day 1

 

[RaceFuchs]

There is for VR, 16K per eye over 160 degrees is about where you want to be for 20/20 vision. 8K on tv is a bit of a waste though, unless you can afford a 100" set and sit at max 5ft. It also depends on the material, all video content is still chroma subsampled so any 4K content is actually only 1080p when it comes to color.

I wonder if Sony will show off GTS in 8K with 4 ps4 pro's connected together, like they did with GT5 in 4K.

This was only possible because of PS3's cell architecture, i doubt you could connect several PS4 consoles.

It’s just the opening cinematic and not gameplay

I'm well aware of that, but someday, 8k will be the new gold standard for games. I'm just wondering when.

Kaz has said GT Sport cars are modeled in 8k.

This is something different, resolution in car modeling isn't the same thing as the number of pixels on a TV display.

 

[th3o]

As for the question: "When will 8k be standard in gaming?

We are even still 2 years away from native 4k becoming a standard on consoles as the current gen enhanced consoles can not handle native 4k across the board and dont even get me started on the fps. I cant play 30fps titles anymore.
Then the best PC gaming graphics card (1080 Ti) cant handle a locked 4k/60 on current demanding open world games like Assassins Creed Origins. And i doubt that the next flagship "Ti" Volta GPU will do that either because games still will continue to look better, so probably in two years even a flagship Volta Ti will struggle with 4k/60 Ultra on the then current most demanding games.

Having said that, i think 8k gaming as an affordable option on PC is at least two GPU generations or 3-4 years away.
And as for consoles i see checkerboarding 8k or dynamic 8k in 2025 with a PS6 or XBOX 3

 

[RaceFuchs]

As for the question: "When will 8k be standard in gaming?

We are even still 2 years away from native 4k becoming a standard on consoles as the current gen enhanced consoles can not handle native 4k across the board and dont even get me started on the fps. I cant play 30fps titles anymore.
Then the best PC gaming graphics card (1080 Ti) cant handle a locked 4k/60 on current demanding open world games like Assassins Creed Origins. And i doubt that the next flagship "Ti" Volta GPU will do that either because games still will continue to look better, so probably in two years even a flagship Volta Ti will struggle with 4k/60 Ultra on the then current most demanding games.

Having said that, i think 8k gaming as an affordable option on PC is at least two GPU generations or 3-4 years away.
And as for consoles i see checkerboarding 8k or dynamic 8k in 2025 with a PS6 or XBOX 3

Possibly... on the other hand, two years ago, i would have never, ever expected playing Forza in native 4k on an xbox one console. Sometimes, astonishing things happen.

 

[th3o]

Possibly... on the other hand, two years ago, i would have never, ever expected playing Forza in native 4k on an xbox one console. Sometimes, astonishing things happen.

Yes but that may also be due to the fact that back then you were less tech-interested and did not follow trends?
For me it was exactly that. I started to follow that high end tech stuff just 1,5 years ago. I bet if i would've been into that earlier that i could've foreseen Forza in 4k on an enhanced console iteration. Or at least it would've not been a surprise.

 

[MroczMR]

Before you get your hopes up, the picture in the thumbnail of the news article is NOT Gran Turismo Sport. Don't get excited for a Ferrari 488 coming anytime soon.

 

[Hong Kong guy]

The 4,000 nit max original Sony ZD9 that debuted at CES then was actually never released only the 2k nit ZD9 variant.Fact.
So the Sony X1 8k TV release is very unlikely with 10,000 nits outside Japan or Asia.A lower nit version is likely.
But it does mean LED Tv's are here to stay and LG Oled is going to have a harder time in the large size screens in upping brightness and cutting cost.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

This was only possible because of PS3's cell architecture, i doubt you could connect several PS4 consoles.

You don't need to connect them, except through lan to synchronize the race. It's no different than racing online, except each ps4 now renders 1/4 of the screen and extra hardware combines the 4 hdmi out streams into one 8k stream. The GT5 4K demo betrayed itself by separate screen tearing in each quadrant. However since PD hasn't included multi-screen setup yet I guess they are behind on the multi render solutions.

They also used that setup for a 240fps demo, almost a decade ago now.
https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-at-4x-hd-resolution-240-frames-per-second/

After racing in 120fps in PSVR in Trackmania Turbo, I rather have it go there before 8K.

 

[occasionalracer]

You don't need to connect them, except through lan to synchronize the race. It's no different than racing online, except each ps4 now renders 1/4 of the screen and extra hardware combines the 4 hdmi out streams into one 8k stream. The GT5 4K demo betrayed itself by separate screen tearing in each quadrant. However since PD hasn't included multi-screen setup yet I guess they are behind on the multi render solutions.

They also used that setup for a 240fps demo, almost a decade ago now.
https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo-at-4x-hd-resolution-240-frames-per-second/

After racing in 120fps in PSVR in Trackmania Turbo, I rather have it go there before 8K.

I think that tech demo was using 4 projectors perfectly aligned vs. an actual single panel with 4x HDMI inputs. I've for years hoped we come to the point where 'triple-1080p-in-one-monitors' would be available for consumer-level purchase for a flawless curved widescreen gaming experience.. clearly there are technical reasons it's not possible like you say screen tearing that's off between the quadrants or thirds.. and probably absolute perfect image timing at the crossover points. I hope triple 4K GT will become a reality soon.. it simply has to because all serious simulators must posess the capability to offer true to real life focal vision.. especially at FiA Final competitions.. perfect passing and door to door racing is improved huge if every driver has that extra peripheral vision.

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

This was only possible because of PS3's cell architecture, i doubt you could connect several PS4 consoles.



I'm well aware of that, but someday, 8k will be the new gold standard for games. I'm just wondering when.



This is something different, resolution in car modeling isn't the same thing as the number of pixels on a TV display.

Tomatoe tomato, fact is Gran Turismo Sport is designed to take advantage of technology not even available in TV's yet.