GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on July 26th, 2018 in the Automotive News category.
Watch Lamborghini's Aventador SVJ Take on the 'Ring, and Win
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Silver Arrows
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Can't wait for the dip**** who tried to call out the Huracan Performante's time as fake get slapped down by Vbox once again.
LeGeNd-1
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I don't know why they don't put the Centenario's 770 HP engine in this, being the last ultimate V12 NA Lambo and all.
Also, I'd love to see a laptime comparison with the Veneno, which is only 10 HP down but 75kg lighter (Veneno 1450kg dry according to wiki and SVJ 1575kg dry according to Top Gear website). Because of the ALA, I think the SVJ should be faster in the straights, but for total downforce I'd imagine the Veneno has the edge.
Also, I'd love to see a laptime comparison with the Veneno, which is only 10 HP down but 75kg lighter (Veneno 1450kg dry according to wiki and SVJ 1575kg dry according to Top Gear website). Because of the ALA, I think the SVJ should be faster in the straights, but for total downforce I'd imagine the Veneno has the edge.
Well a couple things regarding your post, this is all the same engine from the aventador to the SV to the centenario to the SVJ. They all use the same 6.5L v12 it's just tuned to produce slightly less power and not to mention im sure this car is a few hundred pounds lighter than the centenario. Im with you though regarding them testing the veneno it looks like it would be a good track weapon kinda like the Sesto elemento for the Gallardo days and I think it puts down well over 1000lbs of down force. One thing to add, call me crazy but I think the SVJ could have been capable of like a 6:42, a few times he over revved or shifted a touch too early and lost some speed.
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That four wheel steering is odd. It seems the driver was working around it, consistently taking multiple stabs at turn-in as the car appears to over-rotate initially before settling into a mild tail-out stance that covers up the obvious understeer bias of the chassis.
Very interesting stuff.
Very interesting stuff.
LeGeNd-1
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I know they're the same engine, that's why it's even more annoying that they didn't put the top tune into the SVJ, or even tweak it a little bit more for 780 HP for example. Then it will finally be the undisputed ultimate V12 Lambo. Right now if you buy an SVJ and someone pulls up beside you in a Centenario, you'd know that the other guy has more power than you. Handling wise SVJ will wipe the floor, but I wonder what laptime it could do with the engine at max tune.
I did a quick research and the Veneno produces 500kg of downforce apparently. That's not all that much more compared to the SVJ at 490kg (according to TG website). After reading that the SVJ will probably still beat the Veneno then, due to its ALA/4WS.
The Sesto is fast but due to its lightweight and short wheelbase it's very twitchy. I did a lap comparison in Assetto Corsa and the Huracan Performante sets around the same laptimes as the Sesto, while being much easier to drive. Unless it's around a very tight circuit I doubt the Sesto can beat the SVJ.
Will be interesting to see how much power the next hybrid Lambo have. I feel this generation Lambo has been behind all the other super/hypercar makers in terms of power, because they doggedly stuck to their pure V12. How times have changed since the 90s, where Lambos were straight line kings and useless in the corners. Now it's the other way round...
McLaren
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Technically speaking, the SVJ is the top NA V12 if you're going by power; the Centenario produces 759Hp, the Jota is producing 760Hp. The horsepower differences though, even with the Veneno involved at 740 Hp, are minimal. Nobody is going to really be able to run the cars back to back and ultimately feel where the extra 1-20Hp difference is in the engines with these cars. 700+ horsepower is going to be fast regardless.
As for the tuning, this motor is actually reworked compared to the other 2; torque increases are noticeably in the 4,750-7,500 RPM compared to how Lamborghini previously set the V12 up allowing for slightly higher speeds. Good chance a Jota could walk away from the Centenario.
1 other thing to take note is that this supposedly, may not be the final form. There are a couple rumors Lamborghini will once again, make an even more limited model using the Jota as its basis. However, this car if true, will be more along the lines of the Centenario/Veneno rather than an even faster car and will be made to make money.
The Sesto is an interesting comparison because it's stripped out, it's not street legal, and advertised as entirely forged carbon everywhere; the car was basically the blue print to the Huracan's design and Lamborghini's first foray into extensive carbon fiber research. Given the sheer weight differences & performance output, it'd probably be close since the Sesto is really just a race car at its heart.
Off the assembly line, yes. Aftermarket wise, the V10 is arguably the king of speed records. UGR has a long waiting list now for the Huracans as they've managed to make them even faster than the Gallardos.
LeGeNd-1
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Actually the Centenario is 770 HP officially (https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/models/one-off/centenario).
I agree that 10 or so HP is peanuts when you are in this power range. I was more referring to the idea of making the SVJ the ultimate final form of the Aventador family. Just for top trumps number's game sake, it would be nice for the SVJ to have the highest HP rating from all the special editions.
The Sesto is impressive no doubt, but it's based on an old chassis and like you said was basically an experimental car by Lamborghini. Not saying that sims are 100% accurate, but in Assetto I can definitely tell the driving feel is not as refined as the Huracan Perf. On TGTT the Sesto did a 1.44, whereas the 675LT did a 1.13.7. Now assuming the 720S is even faster than the 675LT, it is on par with the Huracan Perf around the Eboladrome in Grand Tour. So by this very rough comparison, the Sesto can't even match the Huracan, let alone the SVJ. And that is around a much tighter track than the Nurb. Now I'm aware TG/GT laptimes are hugely variable due to driver/weather conditions, but it's the best measure that we've got until someone tracks these cars on the same day under equal conditions.
I'm aware of the big scene around modding Gallardos/Huracans to 4 digit figures. But if we include aftermarket then we wouldn't hear the end of it. So I'm sticking purely to factory numbers here.
McLaren
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That's cv. Convert that to horsepower; it's 759hp.
It does when you use horsepower.
The Sesto was off by .3 seconds on Top Gear's track to the 675LT. As for your assumption, it depends on the track; the Eboladrome times show the 720S wasn't faster than a 650S. There's 2 tracks where the 720S is around 3 seconds faster than the LT, but there's another 5 tracks where the 720S is only ahead by a second or less. By that comparison, the Sesto is more than likely right on pace with a 720S if Top Gear's time is to be taken that it's on par with a 675LT by .3 seconds. Comparing the Performante to the 675LT and 720S, it's not a huge gap overall; the Performante & 720S are roughly a second away or so, and against the 675LT, it's around 1-2 seconds. Given that data, one can assume a Sesto Elemento is really only just behind a Performante, likely in part b/c the Performante is newer and has ALA on its side.
As for what this relates to the Aventador, take into account that the Performante against the standard SV is notably faster, on average of 2-3+ seconds on most tracks meaning a Sesto will likely be faster than a standard SV as well. I'm guessing once the Jota finds it way onto more tracks, it & the Performante will be very close because the Jota's achilles heel is that is still weighs roughly that of a normal SV, and that will take a toll against it. Note that most journalists are also not going to likely go 9/10ths and fight the car like the Marco did to grab the best possible lap. Which is why I said, it'd probably be close because the Sesto is a race car at its core and the Jota is a big supercar relying on some super advanced aero magic and revised motor/suspension to overcome its weight.
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I'm sure many of you are feeling the same way that I am right now... After so many years of people rightly snickering at Lamborghinis for their massive power yet underwhelming handling - the company seems to be going full throttle into R&D to make the ultimate complete car. Speed, Handling, Braking & Panty Dropping. 
And that feels really good as a lifelong 100% unashamed Lamborghini fanboi.
As an aside: This Nordschleife fighting is going to lead to a very bad disaster, I feel. Maybe not this year, or even next. But these companies are catering to the masses who only want to compare 'Ring times. And the way that records seem to fall every time a new supercar is tested, how much celebrating can you even do? Maybe one day we'll read a press release saying, "The new 2030 Porsche 921 GT-R II set a new lap record around the Nordschleife with a time of 2 minutes 10 seconds! Of course, the driver died almost immediately when the G-Forces smashed his internal organs to mush, but the new Porsche We-Drive™ system took over in less than 0.03s and completed the remainder of the lap flawlessly."
And that feels really good as a lifelong 100% unashamed Lamborghini fanboi.As an aside: This Nordschleife fighting is going to lead to a very bad disaster, I feel. Maybe not this year, or even next. But these companies are catering to the masses who only want to compare 'Ring times. And the way that records seem to fall every time a new supercar is tested, how much celebrating can you even do? Maybe one day we'll read a press release saying, "The new 2030 Porsche 921 GT-R II set a new lap record around the Nordschleife with a time of 2 minutes 10 seconds! Of course, the driver died almost immediately when the G-Forces smashed his internal organs to mush, but the new Porsche We-Drive™ system took over in less than 0.03s and completed the remainder of the lap flawlessly."
Chikane_GTR
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Looking at all the current lap times lamborghini has my props 👍
McLaren
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I'm legitimately curious why McLaren doesn't join in on the battles. Their cars can match the pace with the rest of the market, but they seem to actively avoid the 'Ring; I don't count Lanzante's times as a full representation of McLaren's efforts since they do modify the cars in one way or another to meet their end goals. Wonder if the controversy of the P1's unreleased time scared McLaren away.
McLaren
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If I remember correctly, Koenigsegg was pretty active at the 'Ring until the speed limit controversy kicked in. I think the major issue they have now is that the cars are all being built to various levels; some cars have more aero work than others. Makes it a bit tricky to set an official production record when your clientele can get really crazy on what they'd like. Add in that you're going to need a client to sign off their car undergoing a lot of hard testing and potential for disaster. Not that Koenigsegg won't likely pick up the tab & a 'Ring record car would be pretty special, but I think most owners want their cars when they're ready.
Ferrari... is well, Ferrari. Lots of controversial discussions about the cars not being representative of the final product or Ferrari wanting specific parameters in place. One of the more recent ones I read was back during the era when the Enzo/MC12 were out, Ferrari did not like the idea of official magazine comparisons and Maserati was told to not like it, either b/c it was becoming certain the MC12 was way more developed for track work.
LeGeNd-1
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I'm sure many of you are feeling the same way that I am right now... After so many years of people rightly snickering at Lamborghinis for their massive power yet underwhelming handling - the company seems to be going full throttle into R&D to make the ultimate complete car. Speed, Handling, Braking & Panty Dropping.
As an aside: This Nordschleife fighting is going to lead to a very bad disaster, I feel. Maybe not this year, or even next. But these companies are catering to the masses who only want to compare 'Ring times. And the way that records seem to fall every time a new supercar is tested, how much celebrating can you even do? Maybe one day we'll read a press release saying, "The new 2030 Porsche 921 GT-R II set a new lap record around the Nordschleife with a time of 2 minutes 10 seconds! Of course, the driver died almost immediately when the G-Forces smashed his internal organs to mush, but the new Porsche We-Drive™ system took over in less than 0.03s and completed the remainder of the lap flawlessly."
Your wish has been granted (virtually at least):
/Assetto Corsa is lacking simulation value
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Not that my opinion means anything, but I don't believe cars like Koenigsegg One:1 can be counted in this meaningless "official record" business. How many exist? Six? Seven? I'm fairly certain it's under ten. Again, this is just my worthless opinion.Koenigsegg were about ready to have a go for the lap record in the One:1, but they crashed it during testing and haven't been back since then.
McLaren
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There are seven-listed chassis'; #106-#112.
At its core, it's still an Agera which I guess could qualify it as a production car since the last Ageras built all adopted One:1 upgrades. But, that goes back to my comment earlier about how they're all basically "1-offs" now because you have examples that aren't built the same. For example, the Regera could set a record, but which car gets to set it? Most of the examples are as when we saw the first car debuted, but the latest chassis now has more aero work done it with added rear fins and front canards along with a more aggressive front splitter and side skirts.
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Okay, this interation of the Aventador is a complete monster!
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