GTPNewsWire
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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on January 21st, 2019 in the Car Culture category.
The New Toyota Supra Vs. Its Key Rivals, By The Numbers
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- Pyano1132
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- TurismoSlayer
When did the 370Z start packing a straight 6? Unless you meant it’s straight packing 6 cylinders.
CodeRedR51
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370 is a V6... 
Edit: I see it was just fixed.
Edit: I see it was just fixed.
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
We have no idea what you're talking about...
(Fixed — it was right in the charts!)
Eh, I think the GT86 is enough proof that numbers don't always tell the whole story. A GTI will murder it in a straight line, but the experience behind the wheel in the Toyobaru is a whole different ball game. Until we get behind the wheel — which will be happening
— it's hard to really pass a verdict.
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The Supra also doesn't have a DCT, it's the ZF 8-speed.
CodeRedR51
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I know you're not allowed to give specifics, but it sounds like A) There is a successor to the 370Z on the way and B) It's not going to be a Crossover. Both of which are fine by me!
If it does end up using the 400hp V6, it wouldn't surprise me if it does jump to the $50,000/£50,000 price range. Excluding the Corvette, it would offer the most respectable hp/cost ratio.
CodeRedR51
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Is it just me or do the Supra's acceleration figures seem a bit optimistic? 10hp less than the Cayman S (albeit with 20% more torque), 472 extra pounds but faster to 60mph? Also the time stated for the Cayman S is for the PDK, not the 6 speed manual (Porsche claims 4.6s for the manual).
Also 3,460lb is awfully heavy for a car with a shorter wheelbase that a GT86...
Also 3,460lb is awfully heavy for a car with a shorter wheelbase that a GT86...
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They are all 2 seat sports cars. Only the Mustang is an outlier, and that's because Ford doesn't have anything closer.
I have a feeling Toyota has setup the Supra's gearbox to excel at 0-60 runs. From a rolling start, I'd imagine a C7 Corvette would freight-train the Supra. Additionally, all the other competitors (except the Alpine) have models or variants above them in performance and price. Meaning, for instance, Porsche is not going to go out of their way to make the Cayman S dash to 60mph in a surprisingly fast time, because that makes the argument for the 911's higher price a little tough to explain. They've geared down or otherwise created space between the Cayman and base 911 since the beginning. The same is less true for the others, but I think still valid. The Supra, on the other hand, can be rated as optimistically as Toyota wants without fear of jeopardizing sales on any other models. A 7AT Nismo 370z should be just as fast in the real world, I would estimate.
As an aside, the whole 0-60 test is years beyond usefulness. It should be replaced with something more telling of the driving experience. Like initial 10 second average accelerative force in Gs. I doubt very many people care specifically how fast their car gets to 60mph, they care more about how fast it feels. It's not just a semantics thing either, it has genuine negative effects. The manual transmission is it on it's deathbed and one of the reasons is that manuals are slower to 60mph. They don't feel any slower (all things equal) in gear during acceleration, but they suck at this test. Also, manufacturers really try to game the 0-60 test and will gear their cars to get the fastest time even if it means the car isn't geared very well. Take the 86/BRZ. Prior to the facelift, the rear axle ratio allowed for the car to hit 60mph in 2nd gear. But that meant it felt undergeared in most driving situations. The facelift brought with it a 4.3 rear axle ratio. Presto, the car feels like it always should have, punchy in the 20-40mph range. But now it will only hit something like 56mph in 2nd gear, which means it looks slower on paper! It doesn't matter if it's faster to 50 AND 70mph, because the arbitrary 60mph target is king. If you accelerated the car from a standstill to it's top speed, and then averaged out the acceleration forces at 10 seconds, 20 seconds, etc (or whatever) it would be apparent that the new car FEELS faster, even if it hits 60mph in a longer mount of time. #endthe60 #rant
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- jblackrevo9
The Bullitt has a higher top speed then Gt and Supra.
Mustang does 0-60 in 4.2 sec and has 420 torque at 93 octane. Who wrote the article?
Gt top out at 157 mph and Bullitt is 8 mph more.
Mustang does 0-60 in 4.2 sec and has 420 torque at 93 octane. Who wrote the article?
Gt top out at 157 mph and Bullitt is 8 mph more.
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Oooh I love charts!
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- NewAesthetic
- SlipZtrEm
Like @Eunos_Cosmo suggested, we tried to keep it to two-seaters. The Mustang is the exception, and it's also quite similar to the Camaro, so we left the latter out.
On a similar note, we forgot the closest related sibling: the M2 competition. Over in the UK even that will be slightly cheaper than the Supra, which I'm guessing will fuel more than a few comparo tests.
Huh, Porsche USA's website says 4.4 for the manual, with or without the SC package.
I wouldn't doubt in that case Porsche is protecting the 911 a bit.
Yeah but everything else is bigger: the engine, the suspension, the wheels. It's also quite a bit more luxurious inside.
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Don't confuse 0-60mph with 0-100km/h, which is 0-62mph. Porsche does indeed claim 4.6s for the manual... from 0-62mph. Industry standard - and I personally hate this - is to subtract 0.2s from the 0-62mph time for 0-60mph, and indeed Porsche USA, which uses 0-60mph rather than 0-100km/h used in Europe, Japan and Australia, has the 4.4s claim.
It's right there in the first post.
That's via JATO Dynamics, the industry standard body both in Europe and the USA. The US-market car is slightly different from the European market car - in fact it has a little extra power (480 vs 459, on the same 93MON/95RON fuel; 529Nm is, for reference, 390lbft) - but as it seems to no longer be US market industry practice to give either 0-60mph times or top speeds, I went with the verifiable UK figures. Yes, that made it awkward to find the Corvette figures too, but I did it.
Any 0-60mph time you've seen for the US-market Bullitt is as tested by a magazine or other outlet, rather than from the manufacturer. Ford does mention the 163mph top speed of the Bullitt in pre-release literature, as an 8mph margin over the 155mph GT (both disagreeing with your figures; yes, I can show you the press releases), but thereafter there's been no mention of it. Perhaps it's in the owners' handbook?
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The Alpine looks the best on paper for me. Not lardy and unnecessarily overpowered like so many cars these days.
A mere 1.8 but still properly rapid and also it's the best the brand does, its their flagship car and that means more coming from a Alpine than a Toyota or a Nissan.
A mere 1.8 but still properly rapid and also it's the best the brand does, its their flagship car and that means more coming from a Alpine than a Toyota or a Nissan.
McLaren
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Beyond the reasons listed by Slipz & Eunos, the Corvette likely starts out as Chevy's prime competitor all things considered.
The SS starts at $42,995 & you'd have specifically tack on the $7,000 1LE Track Package to get as close as possible to a Supra in pricing/performance. This option then puts the SS on pace with the Stingray in multiple categories.
$49,495 vs. $55,900.
455Bhp vs. 460Bhp.
0-60: 4.1 vs. 3.9 sec.
1/4th: 12.5s vs 11.5s
Laguna: 1:37.78 vs. 1:38.28
VIR: 2:54.80 vs. 2:53.80
Willow Streets: 1:20.67 vs. 1:24.55
MT Figure-8: 0:22.90 vs. 0:23.90
The Camaro performs a little better than the Stingray on circuit tracks whilst the Stingray has the advantage in straight line speed. But, in the fairness of comparing what you get right off the assembly line vs. the that & tacking an extra box to boost performance, the Stingray is probably the better starting point.
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McLaren
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According to MotorTrend, the Corvette has Michelin 245/35ZR19 front & 285/30ZR20 summer rear run flats standard. The Magnetic Ride Control changes the tires to 35R19/30R20.
The 1LE has Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 285/30R20 & 305/30R20.
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McLaren
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I looked up the Grand Sport & up out of curiosity myself, didn't know Corvettes equip Michelin run flats (285/335) across the board unless you get a Z07/ZR1 Track Pack options. Then the tires are bumped to Pilot Super Cup 2s.
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