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This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:
This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on February 14th, 2019 in the Car Culture category.
Best day evar!Best article evar!
Best day evar!
I also got some time with this - not enough, but some:
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I did indeed. I've got this cool mate with just such an NSX who lives near two awesome, iconic places in the USA who - although he doesn't know it yet - I'm arranging a trip to see so we can, among other things, take it and the new one to one of those places. And meet his kids
I did indeed. I've got this cool mate with just such an NSX who lives near two awesome, iconic places in the USA who - although he doesn't know it yet - I'm arranging a trip to see so we can, among other things, take it and the new one to one of those places. And meet his kids
1st gen nsx, the car that I wanted since I was small. Unfortunately, it's getting more and more expensive over time. My dream version is 2002 Type R, which is the fastest and rarest version of the 1st gen. But I would be completely happy if I could get at least the early 90s with manual transmission with good condition.
Yes, I know what kind of car it is. But if I had a money for that car, I wouldn't daily drive it obviously. I would drive something else. And I prefer fixed headlights.Ok now...
The 2002 has no pop-up headlights, so that's a big problem right there. Secondly, the type R has no AC, no sound deadening, no audio, and the steering wheel is in the wrong place. It's not really a road car. If you want to lust after a rare NSX, lust after the Zanardi version. That's the best of the road-going NSXs.
@Famine
Was that 1990 version with the automatic sold with left hand steering? Because that would make for a good EV conversion if it's cheap.
And I prefer fixed headlights.
At first I preferred 1990-1997 models with Pop-ups, when I was like 4-6 years old. I even remember when my uncle had some car models, one of them was 2002 type r and the other was 1990, I thought the 1990 looked cooler and found the 2002 uninteresting.Why?
Yes, I know what kind of car it is. But if I had a money for that car, I wouldn't daily drive it obviously. I would drive something else. And I prefer fixed headlights.
I've heard this a lot, and I never really get it. Who are these people for whom going to the track is one and the same as throwing their car in the gravel? I know the internet is full of people in R35 GT-Rs lobbing it up the inside of others at the last second and people barrel rolling at the Nurburgring but if you're driving within your own and your car's abilities you shouldn't get close to having an off, regardless of the car.For example, I can afford to own my NSX, but I cannot afford to track it because I cannot afford to waste it. I'd need quite a lot more money before I was willing to track my NSX.
I'm sure you're already aware but this is so much just your own opinion and not a statement of fact. It's certainly something that people who take rapidly-appreciating Porsches of various vintages to track days I've been on wouldn't agree with - cars worth far more than an NSX-R.That's what a track car should be.
If you can afford a NA2 Type R, you can afford to buy a new one if you trash it to the point of totaled. They're $200,000+ cars.It's worth too much.
You do not want to have a 6 figure off-track experience. Very few people can afford to have a 6 figure off-track experience. You don't just need to be able to afford to buy a Type R to enjoy it on the track, you need to be able to afford to trash it if you actually want to take it to the track. For example, I can afford to own my NSX, but I cannot afford to track it because I cannot afford to waste it. I'd need quite a lot more money before I was willing to track my NSX. And I'd need twice that again (or more) before I'd be willing to track a Type R.
Where does this leave the Type R? It's not good for the road, and you'd have to be slightly insane to track it. Well unfortunately it is in collectible land. It has the same problem as a McLaren F1 with 100 miles on it (or well... actually any F1). You'd have to be slightly crazy to actually use it. Sure you can put the Type R on the road, but why? Sure you could take it to the track, but why?
That's fine, it's a legendary car, and it's collectible. It's just not very usable.
They say money can't buy happiness but I can't imagine I'd be too unhappy shipping my McLaren F1 half way across the world for a road trip...McLaren F1 owners get together once a year or so for 3 day drives somewhere in the world.
If a dream ever becomes a reality, here's your registration.They say money can't buy happiness but I can't imagine I'd be too unhappy shipping my McLaren F1 half way across the world for a road trip...
Yes but with 50kg heavier, the weight difference is the same as the S Zero to a normal Type S.The Type S was the Zanardi.
I've heard this a lot, and I never really get it. Who are these people for whom going to the track is one and the same as throwing their car in the gravel? I know the internet is full of people in R35 GT-Rs lobbing it up the inside of others at the last second and people barrel rolling at the Nurburgring but if you're driving within your own and your car's abilities you shouldn't get close to having an off, regardless of the car.
I'm aware tracks put additional strain on cars in ways that road driving doesn't - engine, transmission, brakes, tyres, suspension, everything basically - but then what is a track car (any car you take on track) if not something you're prepared to spend a little extra on when it comes to parts and consumables?
I'm sure you're already aware but this is so much just your own opinion and not a statement of fact. It's certainly something that people who take rapidly-appreciating Porsches of various vintages to track days I've been on wouldn't agree with - cars worth far more than an NSX-R.
Now I'm not denying that you could take [cheap car] and throw a load of parts at it and probably both go quicker and have more fun, but then fun is relative too. We had this discussion in another thread - I'd have more fun on track in an MX-5, you'd have more fun in an E36.
If there's someone out there who'd have more fun in an NSX-R - even simply because of what it is, rather than what the alternatives could be - then I can't see the problem with that.
If I was wealthy enough to own an NSX-R and say, a Caterham R500, the latter being in theory a far better track car, you can bet your ass I'd still take the NSX-R on track now and then.
If you can afford a NA2 Type R, you can afford to buy a new one if you trash it to the point of totaled. They're $200,000+ cars.
McLaren F1 owners get together once a year or so for 3 day drives somewhere in the world.
Tuscany, 2014.
Utah, 2018.
So your mixing a collectors mindset with someone who is willing to track a car.
Alot of the sceniaro's you have pointed out suggest your level of wealth, you say you can afford the type r without affording to track it, so that's not exactly what anyone here is talking about.
If tracking an NSX-R isn't an issue if you crash it money wise you would probably be willing to replace it with another NSX-R rather then trying to find parts for it, even though it uses most parts on other cars, the biggest difference is interior stripping, suspension and brakes, still uses the same driveline as other NSX from the same era.
This whole thing is about assumptions so what's the difference.
I personally wouldn't track any low numbered valuable car, a good twisty road would be enough for me and in that sceniaro a rare collectable car would be very suitable since it's pretty much what they are designed for.Ok, sure. The Type R is a great track car platform. If you have enough money to view $200k as a project that you can light on fire, great. Go buy a priceless Type R, put a kill switch, fire extinguisher, harness, swap out the suspension bits to stiffen them for the track, supercharge it, remove the glass, upgrade the brakes. Yup... I can't make too much of an argument with that. With infinite funds you could gut a Type R and make it a really great all-around track day car.
All we have to do is assume someone that practically doesn't exist, and they can then behave in a way that is horrible from just about any car enthusiast's view, by trashing a rare super cool car. Awesome.
Getting back to reality, if you want to have a great track experience in an NSX, trash a high mileage regular one just like the guy I posted. It'll be better than the Type R (with brakes that sound like a freight train and suspension that doesn't give), less expensive, and won't make you cry.
I personally wouldn't track any low numbered valuable car, a good twisty road would be enough for me and in that sceniaro a rare collectable car would be very suitable since it's pretty much what they are designed for.
Having a car on a trailer is much different to driving said track car to the track though surely you know this.
Ok, sure. The Type R is a great track car platform. If you have enough money to view $200k as a project that you can light on fire, great. Go buy a priceless Type R, put a kill switch, fire extinguisher, harness, swap out the suspension bits to stiffen them for the track, supercharge it, remove the glass, upgrade the brakes. Yup... I can't make too much of an argument with that. With infinite funds you could gut a Type R and make it a really great all-around track day car.
All we have to do is assume someone that practically doesn't exist, and they can then behave in a way that is horrible from just about any car enthusiast's view, by trashing a rare super cool car. Awesome.
Getting back to reality, if you want to have a great track experience in an NSX, trash a high mileage regular one just like the guy I posted. It'll be better than the Type R (with brakes that sound like a freight train and suspension that doesn't give), less expensive, and won't make you cry.
That's where I am as well. Which is why I prefer the NSX over the NSX-R. Because it has things like sound deadening and AC which make that twisty road a more pleasant driving experience. This is the no-man's land for the Type R that I was describing
I'm not sure what you're getting at with this. I think that it's a mistake to try to drive your car to the track. I mean, if that's the only way you can do it, fine go for it. But ultimately, when we start talking about 6 figure sums, I think it's a big mistake.
The thing I'd like to say to all car enthusiasts is basically what James May has been preaching for some time now. Setting up a car for the track ruins it for the road. You don't want the same things. You don't want AC at the track, or even windows. You don't want a stereo, or sound deadening, or a muffler, or tires that are good at cold temperatures, or the ability to move in your seat, or airbags. You need room for a helmet. You don't care if your brakes are quiet, or clean, you care if they can stop the car from a thousand miles an hour as fast as possible over and over and over. And the one thing you really don't want, is for it to be preciously valuable!
This is why I find the ultra-track-performance version of many sports cars to be more pointless than just about anything else on the road. It's ultimately a very compromised vehicle for the road, in exchange for not going far enough at the track. You want a super light flywheel that forces you to shift as fast as humanly possible, but not for the road! For that road that's super annoying.
The track toy is just not a good road car. And road cars like the Type R, that are track focused, seriously run the risk of not doing a great job of either, especially when the price starts to go way up.