Gruppe5's BMW 2002 Restomod is an 800hp V10 Monster

[GTPNewsWire]

This is the discussion thread for a recent post on GTPlanet:

Gruppe5's BMW 2002 Restomod is an 800hp V10 Monster

This article was published by Andrew Evans (@Famine) on May 10th, 2019 in the Automotive News category.

 

[Famine]

Road. Legal.


(although I guess that's why the customer has to supply a legit, registered chassis, to keep the car's identity)

 

[MatskiMonk]

300? And you have to supply an original '02 chassis?

I hope the factory burns down before anyone orders one.

 

[dabz343]

This is comical. As much as I love the iconic 2002, this iteration--with it's glorious specs--is exactly what petrolheads should avoid doing. Just because you can stick a V10/V12 into anything, doesn't mean you should. I rather see a cohesive design direction that challenges engineering in a way that creates desire among enthusiasts.

This is a terrible rendition of the Singer formula and BMW AG should not endorse this.

 

[Danoff]

Makes me want to go out and buy a 2002, and then not do this to it.

 

[TexRex]

*seufzt*

 

[Famine]

BMW AG should not endorse this.

It doesn't.


I reckon that the majority of cars that end up becoming these will be shells that are rotten to the core. Or "barn finds".

 

[Dennisch]

It doesn't.


I reckon that the majority of cars that end up becoming these will be shells that are rotten to the core. Or "barn finds".

Or just a piece of paper with the vin on it.

 

[dabz343]

Somewhere in the neighborhood of this example would be a good starting point. BMW has a fairly well-known pedigree in the engine department, so no need to be limited to the S14.



I'm not a particularly fond of Marc Norris, but he didn't do a bad job on this car. If your a Bimmer fan in SoCal, you can usually view this car late summer during the vintage meet in the valley.

 

[Danoff]

It kinda gets into what a restomod really is. Because 800hp in this car doesn't seem like it has the "resto" part. It's more of just a mod. I get that it's very expensive and will be done with high quality materials and to deliver a well honed finished product. But 800hp is a complete change. I feel like a restomod should really be about delivering the potential, and the rose-colored memory, rather than a completely bonkers new wild crazy thing.

I get that people want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to get in a 2002 and be able to use it in a way that it wasn't intended to be used - cruising with modern cars at modern speeds. But that's not what 800 hp is about.

 

[Famine]

Or just a piece of paper with the vin on it.

No, the monocoque is the starting point, so they need at least that.

It kinda gets into what a restomod really is. Because 800hp in this car doesn't seem like it has the "resto" part. It's more of just a mod. I get that it's very expensive and will be done with high quality materials and to deliver a well honed finished product. But 800hp is a complete change. I feel like a restomod should really be about delivering the potential, and the rose-colored memory, rather than a completely bonkers new wild crazy thing.

In this case, they're restoring - and preserving - the monocoque and keeping the interior reasonably honest (just with racing seats and a cage, but that's not that far out of whack). There's some "in-period" details too, with racing wheels of the era, and the body kit isn't totally unreasonable for a 1970s Group 5 racer like the Zakspeed Capri, Nissan R30 and BMW 3.0CSL.

But it has modern racing suspension, gearbox, brakes and technology. And a stupid-ass 5.8/5.9-litre V10.

 

[kikie]

There’s not much we like more than a good restmod.

Is it restmod or restomod?

 

[Danoff]

In this case, they're restoring - and preserving - the monocoque and keeping the interior reasonably honest (just with racing seats and a cage, but that's not that far out of whack). There's some "in-period" details too, with racing wheels of the era, and the body kit isn't totally unreasonable for a 1970s Group 5 racer like the Zakspeed Capri, Nissan R30 and BMW 3.0CSL.

But it has modern racing suspension, gearbox, brakes and technology. And a stupid-ass 5.8/5.9-litre V10.

So what do you think? Does the V10 disqualify it? It's reasonable to put it out as something that is claimed to be a restomod. But I'm kinda interested in where the line for that ends.

 

[dabz343]

I feel like a restomod should really be about delivering the potential

Yep, and the key word that people have to remember with these projects is--restraint.

 

[Famine]

So what do you think? Does the V10 disqualify it? It's reasonable to put it out as something that is claimed to be a restomod. But I'm kinda interested in where the line for that ends.

I think that so long as there's an old car in there somewhere being restored, and modern bits to make it feel newer, it's a restomod.

I mean, Singer's DLS is no less ridiculous than this - it's a 964 underneath carbon-fibre everything, with modern brakes, suspension, gearbox, tyres (which are pushed out under bulbous arches)... and then a 500hp engine from Williams, using F1 tech.

Other restomods use electric power, and I don't think that innately disqualifies them from being restomods either.


Edit: Now I'm wondering about modorests. Take ancient, cack suspension, brakes, gearbox and engine from a really old car and shove it into a brand new equivalent. Imagine a 2019 Fiesta on 135/60 R13 Uniroyal remoulds, with a four-speed manual and 45hp CVH... phwoar.

 

[Lebowski]

And this is why i'm so glad GT Sport doesn't have a customisation feature of wings and bodykits, otherwise the discovery section would be full of hideous crap like this.

 

[TexRex]

I'm not the biggest Singer fan, but I appreciate how carefully they toe a particular line. With all the carbon fiber they use and all the tech that it conceals, there's not much actual 964 left, but it retains all of that character in a platform that doesn't deviate too much from the spirit of a classic 911. They're even a fair bit wider than a 964, but they pull it off quite well.

This has a 2002 canopy and fore and aft fascias, but those fenders are ridiculous even if you're not someone like me who prefers cars without arch extensions.

Edit: I think it's absolutely a restomod by definition, but it's certainly not what I'd like to see. Maybe, at most, seamless Turbo-style fenders and chin and lip spoilers with a hot n/a six or a turbo four.

 

[dabz343]

... and then a 500hp engine from Williams, using F1 tech.

Just so people do not walk away thinking the Singer engine is a bespoke blueprint from Williams...

"Singer and Williams tapped Hans Mezger, the man who designed Porsche's first flat-six and many of its greatest race engines, as a technical consultant for this project. This engine is actually a modified version of a Mezger design, the 3.6-liter flat-six from a 1990 911, but its spec reads more like something designed for F1 competition."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a11655046/singer-williams-engine/

 

[bloodyboyblue]

And this is why i'm so glad GT Sport doesn't have a customisation feature of wings and bodykits, otherwise the discovery section would be full of hideous crap like this.

Better that it’s done in the virtual realm than in real life. There’s an unlimited amount of digital 2002s, 911s, Supras or Skylines to modify to your hearts content in a game, and a rapidly dwindling amount of unmolested examples in the real world. Better to let people get it out of their system where it’s not affecting future generations who want to enjoy these cars in their original form.

 

[RedRockValley]

This idea would be cool if they didn't request for you to bring a 2002.

 

[TexRex]

I find myself wondering what's different about going to 5.9L from 5.0 instead of 5.8L.

It looks like the 5.8 is relatively off-the-shelf (albeit at around $13k), with 94mm pistons (up from 92) and an 83mm stroke crank (original being 75.2mm).

Are we talking bigger pistons that push the limits of what's allowed by the block or is it clearanced and a crank with ever so slightly longer stroke slotted in? It's German, so I have little doubt the difference between "just put it in" and "machined to the very limit" is pretty minimal.

Edit: Either way, it seems like a lot for just 10cc. The things we do for love.

...

Sorry.

 

[kilesa4568]

If I found a good donor car, I'd pay a fraction of the price for a nut and bolt restoration instead. Way too much 'mod' for me on this one. Seriously fugly.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Edit: Either way, it seems like a lot for just 10cc. The things we do for love.

...

Sorry.

I was going to like this, but then I remembered I don't support aftermarket and postmarket modding of the S85 either... so I was going to post a "well done sir" meme... then I remembered how to math... so, umm, here we are.

 

[TexRex]

...then I remembered how to math...

I mean...it's a V10.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I mean...it's a V10.

 

[Joey D]

Didn't they make a boatload of these cars? This suggests something like 860,000 02 series cars were made. Is it really an issue to hack 300 of them up?

 

[Corsa]

Love the car, hate the excess.

Would be a perfect little track day car at 300hp.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Didn't they make a boatload of these cars? This suggests something like 860,000 02 series cars were made. Is it really an issue to hack 300 of them up?

827,535 02 saloons according to BMW.

.. and yes ...

edit: IMHO.

 

[TexRex]

Okay, so you take the difference between 5.8L and 5.9L, and then you divide it by the number of cylinders to get...

Didn't they make a boatload of these cars? This suggests something like 860,000 02 series cars were made. Is it really an issue to hack 300 of them up?

For me it's not so much that they cut up a car as it is the end result. Admittedly the 02-series seems to not be afflicted by the asshattery of later model owners, but they've still never appealed to me.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I mean, Singer's DLS is no less ridiculous than this - it's a 964 underneath carbon-fibre everything, with modern brakes, suspension, gearbox, tyres (which are pushed out under bulbous arches)... and then a 500hp engine from Williams, using F1 tech.

And people were slobbering over that one.

So why is this one suddenly sacrilegeous?

And this is why i'm so glad GT Sport doesn't have a customisation feature of wings and bodykits, otherwise the discovery section would be full of hideous crap like this.

you guys really need to play some other games